Im having problems agaisnt falcos, can you help me? [Archive]

Sol

08-17-2006, 01:39 AM

shieldgrab them like crazy if that works

up throw to up tilts, smashes, and uair works well too

and try to shinespike them when they're recovering. it's much easier on falco cuz his firebird startup animation doesn't hurt you

fulljump nair :P

don't sheild grab good falcos caause thats what they want you to so you can get shinned, I'd say roll when they come in with a dair to avoid that, also high hop over the lasers into arieals follwed by an lcanced shine to prevent grabbing and you have to be on falco don't let him be on you cause when falco has control you don't get it back unless you shinespike

JFox

08-17-2006, 02:32 AM

Just grab as much as possible. Grabbing leads to an easy 30-50% on average, and often will even kill them.

Uthrow to Utilt to regrab is fun and easy and lower percents. At mid range I like to Uthrow to Utilt to Usmash if possible. And at high percents(90% or so) I like to Uthrow to Bair/Nair to send them off the ledge and that edgeguard. And at over 110%, I like to just Uthrow to Uair to finish them.

Also if your opponent SHL's- Reflector only if there is distance between you. If he tries to spam it, reflector. Otherwise try to stay on platforms or get in his face so keep him from having time to SHL.

If you are in a pillar combo, be sure to tech any Dair you can, and always DI to make it tougher for him to combo.(I've noticed forward DI seems to work best because you go further, and you dont risk getting Bair'ed.)

Good luck. With those tips, you should really do some damage.

controlfreak7

08-17-2006, 04:36 AM

Well i got some few tips from a friend that help like Jfox said di and grab a lot. The problem with grabbing though is they get really used to it so you have to make sure you have good mindgames. I prefer uthrow, usmash and then try a uair. Also try out Thunders' combo (waveshine>jab>shffl u-air) start it off with a dair as Silent suggested if you can.

My friend also suggested learning to powershield. It punishes falco for shl and isn't risky like the reflector if falco gets too close. A sorta hard tech, but definately worth it.

Shield grabbing works under one occassion imo. Right after they dair into a shine predict the shine wait for it then grab.

Remember to edgeguard by downsmashing if the falco decides to use phantasm as their recovery and try to shine them if they use firebird.

I personally suggest the fulljump dropdown u-air its good for starting a chain of juggling and it is sort of unpredictable just use it at the right time and you're good to go.

mcc

08-17-2006, 04:38 AM

shieldgrabbing falco isn't THAT hard. my bro does it to me and i L cancel and shine after almost every airiel

Silent Wolf

08-17-2006, 06:02 AM

Grabbing leads to an easy 30-50% on average, and often will even kill them.
That statement was false in may ways. would it lead into a 30-50% combo at 999%? and im sure it would work like that on ppl who can DI right. unless its a chain throw.
shieldgrabbing falco isn't THAT hard. my bro does it to me and i L cancel and shine after almost every airiel
you're right, its not that hard, unless theyre pillaring with both hits of the fair or infinite JC shining your shield. but if they are simply pillaring your shield with shine+dair+shine+dair, you can easily grab after the shine. but they can double shine shffl dair to trick you. making it NOT easy, infact impossible. rolling=dont do it every time. it gets predictable.

tips against falco...uthrow combos if possible. most falcos sidestep when you near them, so charge a usmash for a sec and wait for theur sidestep to be done. most sidestep after youve followed thier tech in a desperate attempt not to get grabbed again, so you can use it there. but change it up once in a while. dont edgeguard the side-b, its not worth it. you can get it just as easy or easier with another mildly fast move such as jab or ftilt. bair thier up B's, or stay on the edge and get off and on over and over for imvincibility to just have a garunteed shine. im lazy so no more help from me. but theres much more to be said. search for past topics like this for extra help. theres bound to be like 10 minimum. (actually not sure, depends how far back in time your search goes.)

krazyzyko

08-17-2006, 03:57 PM

ive been playing vs a lot of falcos lately using fox...i dont know why but thats the hardest matchup for me...can someone give me some good tips on how to play against a falco?

C'mon name the Falcos you have problem vs.:chuckle:

*cough*URIEL, ZYKO(me), H@WK!*cough*

Basically when I play vs. Falco's I CT, to juggle with a mix of U-tilts/smashes/airs, shield when they Dair and try to hold it longer to grab them after they L-cancel to shine. And practice your shine spike. edge gaurd with the shine, down/side smash or D-tilt (jump after them) to shine spike.
Or you can jump off and hit them with a bair or nair to screw up his recovery.

To get back to the stage, he'll probably spam lasers until you intend to penetrate, then they'll try to Bair, spike, D-smash, sidesmash so be ready to tech. (I know you are a great edge techer.)

And if you can, recover above him to avoid some damage.

..........later

Silent Wolf

08-17-2006, 04:11 PM

LOL, if he has trouble vs you, why couldnt you tell him in person? :)

krazyzyko

08-17-2006, 04:15 PM

Only God knows when the next smash fest will be held.

Plus school began:((I begin 28 aug) and he already started.

........later

H@wK

08-17-2006, 04:35 PM

*Peter Griffin giggles*

Until you solve yor problem I will keep...

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/quagmire-3865.jpg GiggityGiggity WaveShine >> GiggityGiggity Pillar >> GiggityGiggity Inmoral Spike!

..........................later

Rasalas

08-17-2006, 05:05 PM

i dont have problems with getting back to the edge...not agaisnt falco...i mean on ground...and its not just specific falcos i have problems agaisnt..its just any falco...wether i win or not..its the hardest matchup for me. anyways..thanks for the tips guys, ill try to use them and thanks for the compliment zyko lol.

SideEffect001

08-17-2006, 05:06 PM

Tech chase! Master it

mcc

08-17-2006, 07:06 PM

you're right, its not that hard, unless theyre pillaring with both hits of the fair or infinite JC shining your shield. but if they are simply pillaring your shield with shine+dair+shine+dair, you can easily grab after the shine. but they can double shine shffl dair to trick you. making it NOT easy, infact impossible. rolling=dont do it every time. it gets predictable.

he grabs me after the dair, not after the shine. and i don't think many people can infinate JC theie shine.

what do you mean about "pillaring with both hits of the fair"?

and where did the rolling thing come from?

Silent Wolf

08-17-2006, 08:42 PM

i dont remember exactly, lol. but pillaring someones shield isnt always with the dair. if you shffl a fair but do not fast fall, 2 hits will get their sheild making it harder for them to do anything. the rolling thing came from an above post i believe. i dont really wanna look for it right now, but someone said roll out of shield to avoid this, which becomes predictable. sometimes i just ramble like the post you quoted.

xelad1

08-18-2006, 04:09 AM

just go limp.... it won't hurt as much.

Twiggy_Ramirez

08-18-2006, 06:05 AM

i have several falcos in my area and as the resident fox player i have mastered falco pwnage:

uthrow utilt (repeat till they di) techchase and repeat; this not only demoralises them but it works! also master shining their illusion as they recover

i find bair works better than uair; and remember to not give them an inch of space to shuffle; you should and can always be near them when on the stage; owning them ofcourse...

Silent Wolf

08-18-2006, 09:03 AM

uthrow utilt (repeat till they di) techchase and repeat; this not only demoralises them but it works! also master shining their illusion as they recover
Anyone with a brain would DI the first one, and im sure falco wouldnt even land on the ground for you to tech chase, lol. but there are other things fox can do in that situation. if ppl have trouble with falcos, just play them more.

Dalal

08-18-2006, 09:30 AM

If you can get above Falco you can avoid his SHL and try to drillshine him. Drillgrab might not work if the Falco shines as soon as you hit the ground (since the grab takes a little time), so you'll have to drillshine. After you drillshine, wavedash towards Falco and jab him to force him up. When he's getting up, grab him. Now chaingrab him once or twice before throwing him towards the edge of the course. When he techs, just chase him and grab him again and throw him towards the edge.

Above is a way to get Falco off the edge, but once he's off, it's easier to kill him. If Falco somehow fell under the ledge and is going to FireBird, he's a goner. Just shine spike him. If Falco's still even with or above the ledge, hang on to the ledge and wait for it. If he illusions right at the edge, edge hog him by rolling onto the stage. If he illusions above you (probably will), perform a bair. Once he gets below the ledge, shine spike him.

Might not work, but I just thought of it just now. I don't know...

Rasalas

08-18-2006, 10:08 AM

drill shine cant always work because the falco can CC the drill and then shine once you finish, right?

Silent Wolf

08-18-2006, 10:11 AM

yes thats true.

Dalal

08-18-2006, 10:12 PM

Does that mean that Falco's shine will hit first, or will the two shines clink?

mcc

08-19-2006, 01:21 AM

i think falco's will hit first cz fox still needs to L-cancel which takes a few frames

Twin Dreams

08-19-2006, 12:23 PM

You also should be careful for double dairs when trying to shield grab the first one. If my falco starts getting shield grabbed, I'll lead in with a dair, then shffl dair behind him.

Basically use any u + A move. They can all combo into each other. U- throw too.

If you are leading in, I would try nair or drill grabs.

Shine only knocks Falco down and you want to be up in his face. Shining him will give Falco distance.

If Falco is below the edge, shine spike.

You can try a falling bair to edge grab.

Edge hop bair.

Oh, drilling as edge guarding. Each hit box is actually a weak meteor spike. So, to edge guard fast fallers, you can dril.

mcc

08-19-2006, 03:16 PM

if you're getting shieldgrabbed, doing a dair in his face will just get you shieldgrabbed more (yes, even if you L cancel and try to shine afterwards). also, he can grab you if you're just a little behind him. i suggest doing only airiels so you land behind them

Coen

08-19-2006, 03:21 PM

After a year of playing against bf.com (dutch falco player), I know this matchup quite well. Let me inform you:

- Abuse your throws. Especially upthrow. Don't think it's lame to upthrow-upsmash or upthrow-upair, just do it. And if he doesn't or hardly DI it, do it again. Even if they're complaining about it, keep doing it and never think it's lame. Same goes for uptilt.

- Nair owns him. Jump over his SHL with a Nair. Get him off the edge with nair. Combo him with multiple Nairs.

-Shine him to death. Don't let yourself get shieldgrabbed, just shine after an aerial on his shield.
Once you hit him and he doesn't tech, it time to chase his rolls and do a grab-into-rape combo or a dash attack into whatever.

-Bair him alot too. Great for combos and getting him off the edge too.

-Dash attack perfectly sets up for stuff.

-Edgeguard him with D-smash, Dair, Bair, Nair etc. and shinespike him when you see the opportunity and know you're not gonna fail.

-And maybe, if you can and the power of the gods is with you, shinesmash him like I do ;) (follow link and see vids)

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=79330

Pils

08-19-2006, 03:37 PM

Get close enough so he doesn't dare SHL, but far enough away to avoid melee attacks. Then either do an empty shuffle, run towards him into a spot dodge, or use some other tactic to get him to either put up his sheild or do a laggy move, then grab>upthrow>upsmash>uair repeatedly. After a little while, get near the edge, fthrow him off, and be ready to shinespike his phantasm. If he decides to firebird (some people have no brains XD), just get right in his face and shine him, as the chargeup flames dont hurt you. Falco's a relatively easy matchup IMO.

KeepSpeedN

11-01-2006, 10:35 PM

the key 2 fighting falco is chain throw from 0-death the eway how simple

if they stay still at 50% do an up tilt to sex kick to grab throw up 2 mini charged up upsmash. u kinda got to space it out.if they keep DI'ing it and there around 63 64ish do a sex kick to grab then if they stay still do an up tilt 2 full nair(maybe) to upsmash. if they di do a full jump sex kick to an up smash. in order 2 chain throw from 0 and up and for them not 2 shine out of ur chain throw u must b on fd(of course) and u must b good a doing jc grabs because thats the only way u can cain throw from 0, and get timing down 2 it takes a while to get timing but it will come 2 u.if u dont screw up and u get a grab and u do this combo its rapcis 2 falco.

K.C. Cloud

11-04-2006, 02:38 AM

I find the best way to beat Falco players is to stay on their heels. Not really giving them much room, If any to use their SHL. When you notice that they do have room, be ready to avoid and close distance fast again while not aproaching them directly from in front, but changing it up from Nair to jumping behind them and doing (insert here). What I believe hinders most fox players in this match up is simple, the SHL.

If you can close distance, and keep that distance short and limit the use of their SHL to where they are trying to distance themselves from you to make effective use of the technique, you essentially have the advantage simply because they can not hinder any of your abilities at that moment. You have to try and keep the advantage though. Changing up my approach as well is the way I handle most falcos, while using a variety of tricks metioned in this thread. You must pull off even some of the most random combos, so now that they are trying to figure you out, you can then pull off some combos that they could normally DI out of, but were not expecting and reap the benifits.

It's all about approach, keeping the advantage and staying unpredictable, while being aggressive (being aggressive somewhat to acheive defense is the way i view it,). I find that when I do this, I have a much easier time.

Moggie

11-06-2006, 02:25 AM

I find that this match-up really is all about momentum. When either character has it, it's really tough to overcome.

Usually what you want to stick with would be u-throw combos (such as u-smash at lower percentages; b-air and u-air at higher ones) and full-hopped fast fall n-airs. Usually, I waveshine after landing an n-air, which can easily lead to another grab as the Falco recovers or techs.

One more thing, LEARN TO SHINE THE FALCO'S RECOVERIES. You can get an insane amount of easy kills once you can do that well.

Also, don't drillshine too much. Like someone said, they can just CC and shine you to start a pillar.

Obviously, being able to L-cancel very consistently is a must in this matchup.

Edit : chaingrabbing. Duh.

FastFox

11-06-2006, 02:34 AM

As far as edge-guarding the illusion goes, I'd suggest u-tilting when it's coming straight for you or just slightly above your head. It's fast enough and combos perfectly into a bair or an u-smash depending on the damage.

Silent Wolf

11-06-2006, 02:51 AM

Also for the illusion, use ftilts.

Moggie

11-06-2006, 03:14 AM

Omniswell

11-13-2006, 03:22 AM

cunning taught me how to fight falcos.. and as everyone said full jump nair chainthrows, u throw to usmash shinespikes, but never follow falco off the stagebecause of the illusion spike. use nair to stop his firebied and jabs / shinespikes for the illusion if you jab follow up with a shine.

K.C. Cloud

11-13-2006, 04:00 AM

Omni, you can follow falco off the stage but it's risky, though If you can anticipate a Falco's recovery (Fire or Phantasm) it's easy to catch them, but you pretty much have to be inside their heads to do it successfully and be paying close attention.

krazyzyko

11-13-2006, 10:06 AM

Also I forgot to add on my post from the 1st page, you should practice how to SHFFL /up smash/shine/WD out of shield it's much better than Rolling or spamming the side-step dodge and hoping the falco to ease the shield pressure. And also practice the power shield, comes in handy. (still I suck at power-shielding)

Rasalas

11-13-2006, 03:23 PM

lol, zyko, I already know how to fight falcos, i learned it from some things of this thread and some of myself, thats why i havent posted, i dont know if i thanked you guys for helping me, so, thanks.

KeepSpeedN

11-13-2006, 07:18 PM

no problem

Pima

12-11-2006, 02:19 AM

Umm I got here from the "I need help with..." sticky and I just need to ask a simple question

I'm having trouble escaping the SHdair edgeguarding Falco, I'm not that good with Fox and have a hard time sweetspotting the edge. I saw Shined Blind some days ago and noticed he does escapes it once so it is possible, can someone help me?