The 2006-2008 Tier list

[ChozenOne]

Updated Post on Pg. 1 -----^

Just thought i would tell the community.

[NDigighost]

the japanese don't gather around in forums and make tier lists, they just own. That's what makes them japanese.
The closest thing to a japanese tier list we ever got was from conversations between jesusfreak and captain jack, remember that this is some dated stuff:
Yeah good point. He also says Link should be upper.:crazy:

This is an approximation from what I've gathered from talking to him:

GOD
Fox

Top
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falco

Upper
Falcon
Samus
Jiggly
Link
ICs

High
Ganon
Mario
Doc

Mid
Roy
Pika
Luigi
Yoshi
DK
Ness

Low
Y Link
Kirby
Zelda
G&W

Bottom
Bowser
Pichu
Mewtwo

Now this isn't probably 100% accurate, I wasn't sure where to place the marios, Ness, or Y Link. I based those decisions on some of the things he's said, some Japanese videos, and a little bit of my own opinion. But overall this is what he's told me.

Thx search function!

[Bones0]

Ness in Mid and Mario above Doc?!?! O.o Sweet. b^.^b

[Rose]

On that tierlist, Link and Jiggs are too high and Falco is too low. Seriously, wtf, didn't the Japanese have any good ICs players? lol but I understand it was from a while back and wasn't official.

As for the American list, I agree that the top two tiers should be combined to make 'Broken Tier." Merely aesthetics. I also would move Kirby to the bottom because he is terrible, and I cannot imagine how Mewtwo doesn't outdo him in tournaments. Link and Luigi should be cut off into a dividing "Limbo Tier" because they perform neither as well as the characters above them, nor as bad as those below. Sensible?

[Bones0]

I like the broken tier idea, lol. But seriously, do Kirby players do THAT bad in tournaments? Ive never been to one but I think Kirby is pretty good when used well. He's like a weakened version of Jiggs once you get them off the stage and once you kill them just keep getting sacrifice KOs. :P

[mood4food77]

i completely disregarded the tier placement, but now looking at it i see how it makes sense, the only thing that makes no sense is from doc to ganon, i think jiggs and ganon should be placed higher than doc, they just seem overall stronger characters and i've seen more ganon's and jiggs place higher in tournaments than the marios have, the only thing the marios have on jiggs and ganon is the fact taht they do really good on fox, falco and sheik, after that jiggs and ganon do better

[NJzFinest]

There aren't even that many Jiggs + Ganon players combined compared to Mario players

[Dope_Dizzle]

the tier list is always goin to cause arguments everyone has there own opinion about each char but when it comes down to it the tier list is actualy acurate even if it based off of tournaments no matter what people are going to say "their" char needs to be higher or argue luigis WD downsmashes make him a mid tier or sumthing of that nature:) <lol nature!

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

@Lucky..it's based on Tourney results not on who rapes who. Read F&F statement.


I guess we are going to need more good Luigi players then. Are there any Luigi crews around here?




Edit: Sorry about that one spam post I made in that other tier topic that caused........................bad things to happen.

[DarkKnight077]

Check the Luigi thread? I think there myabe some there.

[StripesOrBars]

i completely disregarded the tier placement, but now looking at it i see how it makes sense, the only thing that makes no sense is from doc to ganon, i think jiggs and ganon should be placed higher than doc, they just seem overall stronger characters and i've seen more ganon's and jiggs place higher in tournaments than the marios have, the only thing the marios have on jiggs and ganon is the fact taht they do really good on fox, falco and sheik, after that jiggs and ganon do better

So basically what you're saying is that Mario's do better against the 3 best and most played characters in them game than Jiggs and Dorf, but since Jiggs and Dorf do better vs the rest of the characters that not many people play, that makes J and D better?

[freeman123]

There only ever needs to be 3 tiers.

Broken:
Marth
Fox
Sheik
Peach
Falco

Good:
Samus
Dr. Mario
Mario
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
C. Falcon
Ice Climbers

Crap:
Everyone else

(NOTE: Characters aren't ranked in any specific order with in tiers.)

It's stupid that the tiers change every year. It was fine to keep updating them when we were still learning things about the game. But how is Falco suddenly better then Sheik, Peach, & Marth if he wasn't a year ago? What do we know about Falco now that we didn't know a year ago?

It's like now they just change the tiers every year for shock value.

[StripesOrBars]

It's based on tournament placings n00b. Falco wins more tournaments now unlike a year ago.

[freeman123]

So Pichu wins more tournaments then Mewtwo now? & Bowser wins more then Kirby? Please enlighten me, guy who's been here a month.

[NJzFinest]

lol, you idiot. DooTheDah has been here for a while. He just keeps getting banned and gets a new account.

Anyway, Pichu does better in tournaments than Mew2, they don't necessary need to win tournaments. Same with Bowser and Kirby.

[StripesOrBars]

LOL FaF, Freeman knows me. All he does is go into threads and flame them and gets away with it cuz the mods find it funny.

But yeah Kirby should still be worst tier.

[mood4food77]

it just doesn't make sense, that 3 characters just make one character better even if the lower character does better against the rest of the characters in the game, it should be based on character match-ups, even if it really only changes that one section of the tier list, it makes more sense

[Rye]

it just doesn't make sense, that 3 characters just make one character better even if the lower character does better against the rest of the characters in the game, it should be based on character match-ups, even if it really only changes that one section of the tier list, it makes more sense

then the tier list would look like a moebius strip

[Kai_]

Ness should be higher.
C. Falcon should be a tiny bit lower.

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

Oy, I wish Luigi were abit higher. Cmon, it had to be Low tier for Luigi? Jesus.........

[EdreesesPieces]

Hm. This post showed up twice and I can't delete it. Oh well.

[EdreesesPieces]

I dont understand people. If you think a character is too low, simply enter a tournament and win or place top 3 and prove that youre character is way better than that. For everyone saying Peach should be higher, just take up peach and go place high at MLG, and go beat falcos, marths, and sheiks with her. It will take awhile to learn the character but if you want it to happen that badly and you think the character is so good it shouldn't be that bad.

[ChozenOne]

I like Freeman's idea <(^_^)b

[Inferno_blaze]

In what tournaments has G@W been doing better then boozer? This isn't me going "boozer should be higher!" I'm just asking because I'd like to know.

[mood4food77]

direvulcan got 5th at a gauntlet using g&w, only g&w

[DarkKnight077]

Well then Lucky how about enter a tourney with Luigi and see how far you get?

[HyrulesOneHope]

The list sounds about right to me.

[NDigighost]

How is Shiek still so high? Marth has been doing better than her, definatly now that Azen has returned, one could argue that he now gets better finish then falco, but let's not go there.

I think peach got more impressive finishes then shiek aswell, but I might be wrong on that one. Most good shieks in the country (excluding Drephen) actually play more Marth then Shiek.

If you decide to make the tier list represent the metagame, please follow that plan, Shiek is no longer dominant in the metagame, not nearly as much as Marth is.

I believe that the fact that shiek is still so high is because people can't let go of the past, they can't possible imagine the character that used to be on top go below Marth. But times have changed.

If anyone has records of shiek preforming better than marth in any tourny, I would be interested in seeing them.

Disclaimer:
I am not a Marth or Shiek player, nor do I like either of them too much.

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

These tournaments are way too far from where I live and i still got 5 years til i can drive. By the way, the driving age in my state is 18 and it sucks.

[Rose]

Why do some people think it is a grave injustice that their favorite character is too low?

Hell, I would want my character to be lower. No one wants to lose to a low tier lol

[DarkKnight077]

Losing to a low tier is not sad, it means that you just suck. Only because so many choose the high and the top tiers..Besides if someone chosses Mario and you pick Falco..and get pwnd horribly means you need more pratice. I mean you don't have to be a high or a top tier. You can choose who ever you like.

[ChozenOne]

All the tier list is, is a creative way to john... and DarkKnight: you're wrong. Many low tier characters have good higher tier matchups, and do well against the higher tier characters. Kirby is considered to have advantage on shiek... so yeah. you're wrong. Not only that, but if you lose to low tier, it means that you do not have enough practice against that lower tier character, not that you suck. Most people who main lower tier characters know their higher tier matchups inside and out.

Good Day Sirs.

[SmashPhysics]

I am very happy with the new tier list all of the characters i use are correctly in their place.
But.. i guess i do have one complaint i believe that zelda should be a little bit higher on the tier list because i do see some good players with zelda at tourneys.

[controlfreak7]

Before any noobs post:





The list isn't based on soley on "the best character" to "the worst". I don't want to read anymore post like "Zelda should be higher because of this move and that" or any other crap because this isn't that this list is really about. What matters is that Zelda players don't do well in tournaments, therefore Zelda doesn't look so hot on the tier list. I don't want to see "so and so" is a better character then someone else and therfore should be higher.
TOURNAMENT RESULTS PPL


The one thing that bothers me about the fact that this list is based on character placements in tourneys is the fact that their moves in the end have some kind of influence on how they place in tourneys. I was just wondering are there even Pichus in tourneys that even determine a spot for pichu on the list?

The fact that its not based on specific matchups makes complete sense no problem at all there. This is the only evidence that the tier lists true purpose is to show tourney results.

The number of people that play a character also have an influence on the list, if there were more roy players there would be a better chance of good roys out their who would place high with roy in tourneys therefore bringing roy up and while placing so high in tourneys they showed roy's potential. I'm just trying to say in the end things that people say the tier list has nothing to do with do have some kind of influence on it.

For example I will say that I think ICs should be higher on the list than CF, but being that there isn't much good IC players Chu Dat isn't enough evidence of tourney results even though its probable he is the only tourney result that has any impact on where the ICs are.

In addition to this stuff, I'm just curious what good does the tier list do for the smash community if its just tourney results? I personally could care less for where characters place in tourneys. You've got to admit this list is a guide for people to choose their characters far more than it is informing the smash community how well characters are doing in tourneys.

Yet I still wonder is there even enough roys in enough tourneys to even give roy his position at all.

I'm hoping this isn't off topic cause I think it can bring up a lot of good discussion regarding the tier list.

[NJzFinest]

direvulcan got 5th at a gauntlet using g&w, only g&w

Dire just got 4th at smashtality, yayuhz





controlfreak, read my post after that one, please. I'm not going to reply to you until you do.

And about character matchups, of course the tier list is based on that, I didn't it wasn't. I mean, Fox and Falco have NO counter and almost always have the advantage in all matchups. I didn't say it was simply and only tournament results. I didn't even say it wasn't soley on who's the better character. But I respect the fact that you took the freedom to not read what I said, rather skim and assume.

I'm just saying, it isn't a list based on who's good and who isn't. Why you think it keeps changing? It's because the people who use these characters place differently as time goes on. For example, the sudden rise of these great Ice Climber players... or the HUGE rise of all of these Falco players. I mean...how many Mew2 players do see compared to Fox players? Majority has it's on part in the tier list.
^ that's some of it

All I want to say really is that it's not a "Best to Worst Character List".

[StripesOrBars]

The tier list is the list, in order, of who does the best against Fox and Falco.

[Zeke_]

i dont see how zelda and yoshi are above Game and Watch.

[NJzFinest]

i dont see how zelda and yoshi are above Game and Watch.
Zelda and Yoshi players do better than Game and Watch players.

[AzN_Lep]

How is Shiek still so high? Marth has been doing better than her, definatly now that Azen has returned, one could argue that he now gets better finish then falco, but let's not go there.

I think peach got more impressive finishes then shiek aswell, but I might be wrong on that one. Most good shieks in the country (excluding Drephen) actually play more Marth then Shiek.

If you decide to make the tier list represent the metagame, please follow that plan, Shiek is no longer dominant in the metagame, not nearly as much as Marth is.

I believe that the fact that shiek is still so high is because people can't let go of the past, they can't possible imagine the character that used to be on top go below Marth. But times have changed.

If anyone has records of shiek preforming better than marth in any tourny, I would be interested in seeing them.

Disclaimer:
I am not a Marth or Shiek player, nor do I like either of them too much
Yeah I was almost thinking the same at the lack of high placing Sheiks recently, but then OC2 rolled around... Let's look at the top 13

1: Ken
2: ChuDat
3: Mew2King
4: Korean DJ
5: Hoshino Kirby
5: Shu
7: Captain Jack
7: Kei
9: The KING
9: P.C. Chris
9: RobMoney
9: DSF
13: Omar
13: Forward
13: RaSeruCort
13: Sastopher

Now, let's break that down into the characters they used in the tourney.

1. Marth/Fox
2. Ice Climbers/Jiggs (ugh...)
3. Sheik/Fox
4. Sheik/Fox
5. Sheik/Doc
5. Sheik
7. Sheik/Ganondorf
7. Peach
9. Jigglypuff
9. Falco/Fox
9. Sheik/Falco
9. Sheik
13. Sheik
13. Falco
13. Peach
13. Peach

8 Sheiks in the top 13... That's pretty convincing to me heh.

[Rose]

Anyone ever notice that Sheik players usually have subs, whereas Peach players often do not?