The 2006-2008 Tier list

[StripesOrBars]

Top and "High" Tier= Broken

Mid Tier= Able to win 50% of the time

Low= Able to win 25% of the time

The rest doesn't matter.

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

Lucky, your points are extremely one sided and uninteresting to read. They also don't make any clear, concise sense as to what you're really trying to say since people who are much smarter than you have pretty much disproven every one of your "points".

Ganon is slow? Lol.


I haven't seen anyone disprove my points yet. Why not you try?

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

Accidental double post.

[Naota-Kun]

Stripes would have gotten extra Rep for making my point if he wasn't banned. Guess it goes to the next agreeable one, Harbinger gets it. Anyways what do you think Mid Tier is afterall, Lucky? The bad tier? No. Mid means in the middle and in the middle that is where balance flows like the middle of alliance of good and evil is neutral so you have balanced thoughts. Balance meaning that all the redeeming qualities will be weighed equally by all the bad qualities of the character, thus making balance. Mario has lack of power and range in most of his moves but he makes it up in balance with mobility, a well wavedash, decent recovery, combo friendly movesets, and small stature. Ganondorf is an easy to edgeguard and combo character but his raw power, great priority, heavy weight, and good range makes up for that in balanced. If a single glearing weakness makes character suck I guess you'd have to say Falco sucks because of his aweful recovery. You are way too one sided -_-.

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

Fine, I guess i was one sided, but all i have to say now is this.

Mario's recovery is NOT decent. It's pretty bad.

[Naota-Kun]

Dr. Mario's is bad. You just have to use Mario's tools of recovery correctly like his Cape, Mario Tornado, Wall Jump, and his Super Jump Punch. Integrate those correctly and you got a decent recovery. Decent means 'okay', not good.

[NJ'zFinest]

Dr. Mario's is bad. You just have to use Mario's tools of recovery correctly like his Cape, Mario Tornado, Wall Jump, and his Super Jump Punch. Integrate those correctly and you got a decent recovery. Decent means 'okay', not good.
Cape and Wall Jump are useless for Doc's Recovery. His Cape doesn't send him forward/up like Mario's and he can't even Wall Jump...

So, yea, it's simple Doc's Down B recovery that gives him a decent recovery.

[Naota-Kun]

If you read I refer to Mario's recovery. I already said Dr. Mario's blows. See the problem here. People skim through posts to fast they hardly can tell the difference betwen Dr. mario and Mario's names.

[NJ'zFinest]

That's why people refer to him as simply "Doc".

[Naota-Kun]

Alright, thanks for informing me. (resites) Doc. Alright, I'll keep it in my head. Anyways, the Doc has aweful recovery. Mario's is decent.

[CaliburChamp]

I agree with everything else except for Kirby is definitly better than Bowser. He has fast, low laggable moves. I dont understand why the MBR, decided to take away that bottom tier list. That list defines the worst characters in the game. Mewtwo, Pichu, and Bowser. Those 3 characters never made it high enough in tournament rankings.

[NJ'zFinest]

Alright, thanks for informing me. (resites) Doc. Alright, I'll keep it in my head. Anyways, the Doc has aweful recovery. Mario's is decent.
Mario has a good recovery.
Doc's recovery is FAR from awful (it's decent).
Awful recovery = Sheik or Ness

[Naota-Kun]

I disagree. Bowser has more over Kirby. I think Bowser has more potential because at least Bowser has range, power, priority, and weight while Kirby has none of that and Kirby is pretty slow himself with his lack of mobility, especially in the air. Kirby even has trouble making a decent KO for it. He has to try hard and smart to KO while Bowser just has to tilt for KOs and he has the Whirling Fortress, which gives him very brief invinsibility on the ground, has good priority, good power when sweetspotted, and acts as an approach over rolling or dashing (even out of his shield). It can even score almost 30% damage when Whirling Fortress is used on an enemy in midair (you have to be, too) if they have bad DI. Bowser>Kirby.

[Sighrax]

Sheik can go so far with her recovery, just the lag is terrible afterwards. Therefore I don't think it's THAT bad. Mario has an awesome recovery, it's very easy to mindgame someone to stop edgehogging with him. Doc gains no height, just slight horizontal distance when he does the Down+B.

[CaliburChamp]

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Kirby

Worst Tier:
Bowser
Mewtwo
Pichu

[Naota-Kun]

Bowser still owns Kirby in Melee and Deviant Art: http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/300W/fs7.deviantart.com/i/2005/183/4/c/gum_on_the_floor_by_Luigi64.jpg

[NJ'zFinest]

Sheik can go so far with her recovery, just the lag is terrible afterwards. Therefore I don't think it's THAT bad.
Compared to all of the other recoveries, it is "that" bad.
Doc gains no height, just slight horizontal distance when he does the Down+B.
SLIGHT? lol, maybe your hands are simply too slow
Bowser still owns Kirby
Tis true

[Sighrax]

Compared to all of the other recoveries, it is "that" bad.

SLIGHT? lol, maybe your hands are simply too slow

Tis true

naw, my luigi recovery owns but doc doesnt actually gain height if you do it perfectly -_-

[NJ'zFinest]

naw, my luigi recovery owns but doc doesnt actually gain height if you do it perfectly -_-
idk what to say then. Works for me and other players >_>

[Sighrax]

There was a thread about someone doing it perfectly in AR, and you are at the same height before downb and after downb cools down and you can up b X_X

[sinfallen]

the list looks good

[pwned142]

The ICs are waay to high... yes they have potential but thats not how they are supposed to be ranked.... Only one good Ic's that i know of chu dat. They should be much lower:ohwell:

[NJ'zFinest]

Only one good Ic's that i know of chu dat. They should be much lower:ohwell:
You obviously don't known enough about smash players and IC. Haven't you at least noticed how well IC do in each one of their matchups?

[Wak]

[QUOTE=NJ'zFinest;1860647]You obviously don't known enough about smash QUOTE]

you can giv tehis argument against 90% of the people posting in this topic anyway...

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

The ICs are waay to high... yes they have potential but thats not how they are supposed to be ranked.... Only one good Ic's that i know of chu dat. They should be much lower


*coughcoughDESYNCHcough STRONG SMASHEScoughSTRONG AERIALScoughINSANE GRAB COMBOScoughcoughPOPO CAN STILL FIGHT ON HIS OWNcoughcough*

naw, my luigi recovery owns but doc doesnt actually gain height if you do it perfectly -_-

Luigi's recovery is good, but predictible and easy to edgeguard.

I agree with everything else except for Kirby is definitly better than Bowser. He has fast, low laggable moves. I dont understand why the MBR, decided to take away that bottom tier list. That list defines the worst characters in the game. Mewtwo, Pichu, and Bowser. Those 3 characters never made it high enough in tournament rankings.

Bowser's Up B+one of the best edgeguarders in the game+very fast and strong F air and B air= Instant Win against Kirby

[Naota-Kun]

Luigi's recovery is good, but predictible and easy to edgeguard.


You can't forget the fact that lots of n00bs depend on the unreliable Misfire Missile Luigi does. In small stages this is a good way to selfdestruct, like a real missile missing its target.

[mcc]

how can predictable and easy to edgeguard recoveries be good? : (

and even the selfdestruct has low priority

[NJ'zFinest]

Luigi's recovery is good, but predictible and easy to edgeguard.
Luigi's recovery is terrible. Predictible and easy to edgeguard.

I fixed it for you

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

It's not terrible. His recovery moves give him a lot of horizontal movement. Especially his tornado because he loses almost no vertical distance, but gains a lot of horizontal distance. He also has is Up B, which goes directly up. Don't forget about how floaty he is.

[mcc]

but his recovery is unprotected and can be easily knocked back, spiked, or meteored. it's also predictable, so the opponent will be able to easily predict your path and kill you

[Naota-Kun]

Not to mention it really hurts to use Luigi's recovery in Yoshi Story with Misfiring Green Missile. Luigi's like a ticking time bomb in combat.

[Lucky_Sharmz19]

I've said all that stuff already.

[mcc]

if you know all that, how can you not think of it as terrible?

[highandmightyjoe]

People seem to throw around the "bad recovery" phrase pretty often. If you go to the character specific threads and read the guide for each character, all but about 5 of them refer to the character as having bad recovery. Really, there are 26 characters, so if a characters recovery is in the top 13 then it is good. I'm not saying Luigi's is or anything, maybe it is but I don't play him or against him often enough to know. It just annoys me to hear that so often. Such pessimism.

[controlfreak7]

Top and "High" Tier= Broken

Mid Tier= Able to win 50% of the time

Low= Able to win 25% of the time

The rest doesn't matter.

Ok there is ****ing proof that lower tier characters are dependent on who plays them, this % of winning stuff is bull****.

The best freaking Kirby in the world would have a rough time against ken's kirby, the only possible reason that the best kirby would win is because they know how to ko/use kirby more than Ken does. That is pure 100% proof that low tier characters HAVE to be based on mindgames in order to be played nearly as well as top tier characters. The tier list is basically a scale ratio of tech skill to mindgames.

There is several ways this stuff works depending on who vs. who:

1. 2 foxes equal tech skill, the one with more mindgames will win
2. 2 kirbys, equal mindgames, the one with more techskill will win
3. low vs top (since I used kirby and fox I'll use them for this example), whoever is better with what their character is based on will win.

This is why people who play low tiers lose, not neccessarily because low tiers suck (you can call it a disadvantage that they don't have as much skills that can be utilized usefully), but rather because they are focused on how to use their character more than tricks (mindgames), which is what low tiers feed off of to replace lack of skills.

And not to bring my fox fanboy background into this, but I'm absolutely tired of people who have one-sided arguements about how fox is 'easy, cheap, broken.' He is way too ****ing overrated.

Until someone gets it through their head FOX IS THE MOST COMBOABLE/CHAINTHROWABLE CHARACTER IN THE GAME. On top of that he is one of the LIGHTEST CHARACTERS. its not that hard to rape fox if you just stop *****ing about it and do something. Reason I'm bringing this up, this is a discussion on tiers and I'm not attacking anyone specifically, but the crowd of anti-fox players (not that it makes my argument any less random.)

How do I know this? I play my cousins all the time, and believe me we're not nooby, we've got quite a few things down. One of my cousin's isn't much better than me, but he can rape my fox with ganon. He ****ing fairs me to death (do you know how bad fair rapes fox?). Yet he will complain when I do something such as shinespike him, regardless of percentage (and unless he does something such as down bs off stage or accidently jumps off stage its always a ko or nearly ko worthy percentage that he dies.)

On a list of my arguements to why shinespike isn't cheap, I'd like to add one thing. Shinespike isn't applicable in all situations. For example, if you are above the stage and recovering a shinespike won't do much to you (it would have to be repeated= oppurtunity to avoid it).

What is my point by all of this? fox=over-rated= if the tierlist was based on more than just tourney stats, fox should be lower.

And since I'm bringing this up why do a lot of people say fox is the hardest character to use. Keep in mind a lot of the people that say this don't main or play fox. Then there is a group that says fox is the easiest character, etc. My question is more directed toward the fact that why isn't there even anyone in between? Why is it either hardest or easiest?

[Moose42687]

I started playing as Luigi and it **** near changed my life :O. He's just that good! Faster than Fox and his arials get right to the point and then get out of the way so you can throw out 4-5 in the same jump sequence. His recovery is the best in the game in my opinion. get close to the edge with side b and stall/attack with rising down b and his arials. I think he should be higher and I reccomend everyone at least give him a decent try :P.

Edit: AND his taunt is an attack, meaning he has more attacks than every other char. So yea!

[JBM falcon08]

Doodah got banned? for what?

Mario is better than doc.

[NJ'zFinest]

Doodah got banned? for what?
What I think: Since DooDah is know for arguing and correction the less inexperienced/nooby players in a "mean" matter, most of those people actually feel emotionally insulted and report it to a mod. Pretty sad :(

Mario is better than doc.
hmm, Mario has better recovery and slightly better at combing. Also his Fsmash my be a little weaker but it has more range. Then again, Doc is better at spamming and KOing. I think it evens out and depends on preference. The only reason why one character is higher than the other is mainly because Doc players have shown better results.

[Umbreon]

nah, it's cause doc's edgeguarding is guaranteed since the supersheet hits way below the edge, and pills are gay.

that's about it.

[NJ'zFinest]

oh yea, I forgot about Doc's sheet's gay hitbox.

****it Mow, you're almost at my old account's post count. You just need 20 more lol