The 2006-2008 Tier list

[cb_marth]

Ah yes I see the speed is what hurts him which is true. Yeah so its more bad luck for Link why he is so low. Yet if the list is a reflection of characters in competitive play. Then wouldn't Marth be top? Seeing how he is used a lot in tournaments as well and is usually the winner of most (ken) for say. Although I know Fox and Falco win the popularity contest in tournaments then usually don't win it all do they?

[Sargent_Peach]

um... in our biweekly tournements (the innsomnia in west memphis) the guy who plays falco usually wins. Either him or another guy who literally plays everyone, and has won with shiek, doc, luigi, and many more. We usually have a pikachu and fox finish between 4 and 5 with a skeik in there somewhere and a peach there too. Then comes the link, a mario, and a jiggs. That is what happens, and i forgot the samus usually right after the peach. Just thought i let you know how it turns out n west memphis. I think ylink rules. Ylink ftw!!!!

[Trespayne]

I think it is a pretty good list, the only thing I would change is Link. Even if it's just one or 2 spots, I think he could safely be moved to mid tier list at least. Another suprise to me is DK. I would probably put him a spot lower.

[cb_marth]

Yeah I agree.

[InfiniteFalco1337]

Link is in the same position as he was on the last tier list (on that list, he was middle tier). Tiers don't reflect off of how good a character is...it's many how well people who use these characters do in competitive play. I mean, Link overall has pretty good matchups and all. He's only main worries are Fox, Falco, and Sheik....however...these 3 characters are the most played. This is one of the reasons why Link players don't do so well in tournaments.

this is very true, not many counter link(except for sheik fox and falco). Link counters Marth. :chuckle:

[Wilhelmsan]

this is very true, not many counter link(except for sheik fox and falco). Link counters Marth. :chuckle:

Sheik, Fox and Falco are by far the most commonly played characters. It's impossible to win a tournament without facing at least one good one.

[Link-NY]

this is very true, not many counter link(except for sheik fox and falco). Link counters Marth. :chuckle:

ummm laff? nope sorry. Link does not counter marth. its an even match

[cb_marth]

Link, and marth are pretty even matched. I do believe though that Link's wepons have an advantage over Marth.

[Emblem Lord]

Weapons mean nothing if Marth gives link no chance to breath.

It's even.

[Elemennopee]

Marth would just dash dance mind game Link all over the place and then hit him after the Link throws a projectile.

[Smooth_One]

Mindgames with projectiles > Mindgames without projectiles

I wouldn't say Link counters Marth. As with most matchups, Marth's speed and range (and a disjointed hitbox for Link's projectiles) give him the edge.

[Mew2King]

Kirby, Yoshi, Ness, and Young Link are overrated I think

ESPECIALLY Kirby, seriously he may very well be the single worst character in the game. Pichu and Mewtwo are way better than Kirby IMO.

Edit - I think Sheik is the best in the game. Perfect Sheik is just too good, she has NO glaring weaknesses, her Bair matches the range of Marths air moves just with less priority, really good wavedash back, godly F tilt, rapes you badly if you DI bad, she has an amazing shield, amazing shield wavedash, amazing down smash, CG half the characters to death, do 25% per grab to characters she can't CG, easily edge guard pretty much every character, she can needle camp characters that try to camp or laser camp her, and all her bad matchups arent even that bad at all. Jack managed to beat my Fox at OC2 most of the time we played, but in Sheik dittos I beat him like 60% or so. Sheik vs Fox is not bad at all. Sheik can always smash DI out of up throw Uair in case you didn't know.

[Samochan]

Kirby, Yoshi, Ness, and Young Link are overrated I think

ESPECIALLY Kirby, seriously he may very well be the single worst character in the game. Pichu and Mewtwo are way better than Kirby IMO.


... How can kirby be overrated when he's on the bottom of the **** list and everytime someone makes a post about kirby it's about how sucky character he is? How's that being overrated? >_>;

[NJzFinest]

Samochan, he means that eventhough Kirby is as low as he is, he should be even lower >.>

[Samochan]

Samochan, he means that eventhough Kirby is as low as he is, he should be even lower >.>

Not like it matters much anyway, the bottom 4 are quite even though kirby is the only one with no one really good player playing him, save KKK (and he quit playing kirby, didn't he).

[Mcscruff]

link doesn't counter marth. it is an even matchup. sheik counters marth.

[Elemennopee]

Doesn't the ICs counter Sheik?

[Emblem Lord]

Shiek doesn't counter marth. She has advantage. That's all.

[Cort]

I think m2k meant overrated in a sense that they are just placed too high on the tier list, granted it's already pretty low anyway.

That Sheik lecture almost made me want to main the tranny.

[StripesOrBars]

Kirby shouldn't even be on the tier list.

[iankobe]

Kirby shouldn't even be on the tier list.

I totally agree with you.

[Zink]

Kirby>pichu or M2. Spikes, reverse aerial hammer, Kirbycides with throws and swallow...

[Smash G 0 D]

Kirby is good. You should have seen the Kirby ditto Chu vs G-reg. Hawtness.

[marthsword]

Shiek doesn't counter marth. She has advantage. That's all.

Sheik does counter marth.

Kirby shouldn't even be on the tier list.

I agree a little, but m2 ness < kirby

[BigRick]

Kirby>pichu or M2. Spikes, reverse aerial hammer, Kirbycides with throws and swallow...

I learned Kirby the hard way, trying to use him in a low tier tournament without getting some good practice with him before.

I agree that Kirby's down air is a good edgeguard, being able to go through moves like Link's up+b

The reverse aerial hammer is not that great of a move though, properly spaced/timed it does leads to a utilt, but RAH is very slow and has little priority cause the move seems to have only a little number of hitboxes. Multiple weak hits also means to possibilty for your opponent to use smash DI to get out of utilt range.

If you're able to pull off a Kirbycide, then its your opponent's mistake... and the better the opponent, the less mistakes he'll do

The only thing Kirby is decent at IMO is edgeguarding, other than that he has very little going on for him, getting a win with him on a big level means that you're alot better than your opponent. Maximizing Kirby's potential IMO is being able to gay your opponent on smaller levels.

Oh and don't be mistaken, Kirby is one of my fav chars, I'm just being realistic.

EDIT: Oh, and I propose Kirby over Bowser in the tier list. Bowser is a better char, but he gets raped anally by FFS. In overall, Kirby does better in these matchups: he gets raped orally... you know, with that big mouth of his.

[Samochan]

Kirby is good. You should have seen the Kirby ditto Chu vs G-reg. Hawtness.

O_O Did anyone record that one? If they did... omg give me the link pls! :D

If they didn't... I'm missing out perhaps one of the best kirby matches ever... ;_;

[Smash G 0 D]

No it was not recorded. It was at a biweekly.

[Magus420]

Oh, and I propose Kirby over Bowser in the tier list. Bowser is a better char, but he gets raped anally by FFS. In overall, Kirby does better in these matchups: he gets raped orally... you know, with that big mouth of his.Bowser >>> Kirby.

I also agree with the others that Kirby should probably be at the very bottom now.

[StripesOrBars]

Kirby>pichu or M2. Spikes, reverse aerial hammer, Kirbycides with throws and swallow...

Kirby doesn't have a spike, it's a meteor, which has horrid start up lag and might be his only good move, which isn't even that good.

Reverse ariela hammer is, well, dumb.

Kirby's throws are garbage until after like 30%(if kirby can even get someone that high) and "kirbycides" are pathetic and if you die from a kirby doing that to you, then quit this game.

Pichu has speed, good smash attacks, a semi good projectile, and awesome recovery. He can also duck under most grabs(which Kirby can do too, but Kirby is horrendous).

In the end, Pichu still hurts himself and dies at 40%, but is still better than Kirby.

[06Falcon]

Kirby shouldn't even be on the tier list.

even if it's true, he is still part of the game, and thats reason enough for him to be on it, no matter how bad he is.

[Smash G 0 D]

Kirby's meteor is effective. Have you seen the Warpstar Warrior vids? He's got the Fence of Pain as well. Kirbycides work. You have to learn him to know him.

[StripesOrBars]

That doesn't change the fact that Kirby is still the worst character in the game.

Combo Vids are not a valid argument.

And no, Kirbycides do not work if you actually try to get out of his suck before 100%(which no one should get to vs Kirby).

Someone can be good with the worst character in the game(Kirby), but that doesn't unsuckify Kirby.

[Samochan]

And no, Kirbycides do not work if you actually try to get out of his suck before 100%(which no one should get to vs Kirby).

Too bad you're mistaken there buddy. Not only kirby's swallowcide is impossible to be broken out in time in case the swallow happens off stage, and him being one backward jump off the edge doesn't really give most players enough time to wriggle out in time and when they do, they just plummet down to their doom while kirby can hog the edge/finish the job with aerial. And all the while kirby still holds the advantage over the swallowcided one, since he can suicide cancel the swallowcide and float back to the edge when the swallowcided one dies to the bottom. Kirby can suicide cancel every character in the game except pichu, the other zero framers being 1/2 framers in truth (tested with AR) and while 1/2 framers seem like an impossibility to suicide cancel, some kirby players can suicide cancel 1 framers, even. That means about 20-22 characters in the whole game. Kirby's swallow, initiated on ground, has more priority than any other ground attack and even fsmashing marth will get swallowed should he try to hit kirby. Aerials not landing direcly above kirby or behind him will also get swallowed. So it's not that impossible to get a swallowcide off, especially when they edgeguard kirby or vice versa.

Stripes, I know you're a rapid kirby hater, but try not to include non-valid points in your posts.

[StripesOrBars]

Wow, that was really stupid.

Hmmm, lets think about this for a second.

Off stage you say?

Won't happen LOLOL.

I constantly forget you have the easy version of the game so you really don't understand the game of Smash.

But I was talking about Kirby swallowing you on stage then walking off.

I know you and Kirby love to suck at this game but try to make valid points next time Sam.

And please call me Bars or Doodah or Pete. Stripes makes me sound patriotic or some shiz.

[Ijuka]

I constantly forget you have the easy version of the game so you really don't understand the game of Smash.

Luckily, I don't forget that you lack the brains to understand the game of smash.

You should stop your meaningless flaming, and give some valid arguments with proof next time, don't you think? Why are you so negative? Because you envy people who are better than you? And let out the frustration by blaming them? Or were you just born to be stupid?

I don't know, but you REALLY should stop talking crap, and use valid arguments instead.

*Predicts your response*

"My points are valid, because I say so" or something else as groundless.

Please, grow up, or post some vids so that I can laugh...

[marthsword]

Who does swallowcides off stage?

[StripesOrBars]

No one because it's useless.

*Ignores moronic comments form morons*

[Ijuka]

No one because it's useless.

*Ignores moronic comments form morons*


Ignoring is moronic, in fact. You are a moron. That was a moronic comment, by the way. And nothing is useless if you know how to use it.

And.. you think I wanted to know that you ignored me? Was it worth mentioning? Maybe it was to you. So you just got one more post, by posting useless, unimportant moronic garbage.

Good luck ignoring your post, by the way. Haven't seen as moronic post in a while. Yes, by a moron.

[StripesOrBars]

Once again another PAL smasher intervenes with flames. Please stop flaming me. You're ruining the thread, like so many PALers b4 you.

It's amazing that someone will always try and justify why Kirby isn't the worst in the game.

[Samochan]

Wow, that was really stupid.

Hmmm, lets think about this for a second.

Off stage you say?

Won't happen LOLOL.

I constantly forget you have the easy version of the game so you really don't understand the game of Smash.

But I was talking about Kirby swallowing you on stage then walking off.

I know you and Kirby love to suck at this game but try to make valid points next time Sam.

And please call me Bars or Doodah or Pete. Stripes makes me sound patriotic or some shiz.

Unlike you, I was making completely valid points. Off stage swallowcides can happen if the player wants to edgeguard kirby off stage to not let him get back to edge. Every character and every cometitive player do this. And for your knowledge, the edgeguarding game had not changed from NTSC to Pal, the only thing regarding edgeguarding that has changed is that Falco's spike does not spike with the whole animation and Marth's dair is a meteor. And let's also consider that this game has 26 character and those two attacks I mentioned are not the only means of edgeguarding. America also has a lot more kirby players than europe whom are also adept at swallocides, so your point is invalid, yet again. Also to note, you're not only insulting me with your comment but also every other European player there is.

And yes, kirby can just walk off stage with someone on swallowcide and true, it is tougher to do against someone who is adept at wriggling free, but as I mentioned in my post, there is no time for a player to wriggle free until it's too late for them to recover when kirby is close to the ledge and can backwards jump off/is facing the ledge already. And once they do wriggle out they really don't have other options than to try and recover back stage, where kirby has hogged the ledge or is already pushing them away with his aerials. There is also a possibility for a player to wriggle out, then accidentally aerial dodge, since wriggling out involves pushing as many buttons as possible.

Swallowcides consist of different aspects than just swallowing on stage and walking off. It's not a walk in the park to swallowcide someone then suicide cancel it. It's something that needs to be practiced just like every other aspect in this game. Kirby players don't throw in swallowcides randomnly, but they do it when they see the chance. With a stock lead, swallowcide becomes even more dangerous tool, since the kirby player can just take opponents stock in exchange of his own stock and still be on lead after that, or perhaps suicide cancel it and have a 2 stock lead. This is very handy when the kirby player has high% and is about to die. Swallowcide also works well in evening the score, when kirby has taken a lot of damage and the opponent not so much. And what does kirby usually do when at high%? He's killed or flying off stage, recovering, and the opponent is edgeguarding. That's where the kirby player chance to swallowcide his opponent. That's why off stage swallowcides are good and if you still fail to understand this, I must quote Ijuka: Luckily, I don't forget that you lack the brains to understand the game of smash.