The 2006-2008 Tier list

[HyugaRicdeau]

Well, I appreciate phanna's topic for the discussion it started, and since he made the chart in the first place, it's his prerogative regarding what to do with it, but it hasn't been updated in consideration of the discussions that have taken place.

So, I would suggest to anyone not to consult it for any specific matchup (Or else you might think Jiggly does worse against Pika than against Fox for example), but it can be used to make more general statements, such as Fox is a better character than Jigglypuff.

[TheManaLord]

whoops i read some shiz wrong abort abort

[Magus420]

No, the match is not a myth. The notion that Kirby does well against Sheik, however, is the myth which almost always points back to said match (Jan 2004 btw).

EDIT: Now my post makes no sense, lol.

[bladeofapollo]

I think the better part of that myth comes from how clever Isai was being. CC got him far.

Kirby's crouch cancel SERIOUSLY messes up Sheik's grab game AND her tilts. But if that's the case, why aren't G&W and Jigglypuff Sheik counters? They can do the same thing.

*guilty pleasure* Kirby needs to be floatier in Brawl >.<

[petre]

jigglypuff would be a sheik counter if all sheiks did were dash attacks and ftilts.

unfortunately for me the dont.

[Magus420]

Kirby's crouch cancel SERIOUSLY messes up Sheik's grab game AND her tilts.Sheik's needles SERIOUSLY mess up Kirby's anything game.

[HyugaRicdeau]

You just have to needle --> grab to beat Kirby CC, or any CC, with Sheik. As soon as you get Kirby past a certain %, he won't be able to CC dtilts or whatever, and then get gets trashed. Even if you COULD counter Sheik's offense somewhat by CC, then what? Dsmash? One of Kirby's AWESOME throw combos? Kirby has no reliable way to kill Sheik at all.

jigglypuff would be a sheik counter if all sheiks did were dash attacks and ftilts.

unfortunately for me the dont.

You could replace Jigglypuff and Sheik with any 2 non-equal characters in that sentence and it would still be true, so...

[Ankoku]

Kirby kills Sheik by being played by Isai.

[Mew2King]

Wow why would people think Kirby counters Sheik. Because Kens craptastic Sheik did poor vs Isais Kirby about 600 years ago in a friendly? Great way to judge it.

Sheik --- DESTROYS --- Kirby

Edit - tiers being based off results are stupid because tiers are how good the characters are. Bum making DK rise tiers is only because people suck with DK so they don't know how gay and good he is. It doesn't mean DK suddenly got better, this game was the same in 2002 as it is in 2007, people just learn more as time goes on. My view is Sheik is the best character, space animals and Marth come right after.

I play Marth because he's my favorite character along with Captain Falcon, and he's my best because of the QUANTITY of time I used him and the amount of studying I did with him surpasses that of my other characters. Yes there's a reason I use him, he suits my style well and has good high level play strats and he's fun to use, that doesn't make him better than the other 3 characters though.

Also, the top 4 characters should all be considered Top Tier, since they are all very close in how good they are.

[Walgreens Pharmacist]

Wow why would people think Kirby counters Sheik. Because Kens craptastic Sheik did poor vs Isais Kirby about 600 years ago in a friendly? Great way to judge it.

Sheik --- DESTROYS --- Kirby

Edit - tiers being based off results are stupid because tiers are how good the characters are. Bum making DK rise tiers is only because people suck with DK so they don't know how gay and good he is. It doesn't mean DK suddenly got better, this game was the same in 2002 as it is in 2007, people just learn more as time goes on. My view is Sheik is the best character, space animals and Marth come right after.

I play Marth because he's my favorite character along with Captain Falcon, and he's my best because of the QUANTITY of time I used him and the amount of studying I did with him surpasses that of my other characters. Yes there's a reason I use him, he suits my style well and has good high level play strats and he's fun to use, that doesn't make him better than the other 3 characters though.

Also, the top 4 characters should all be considered Top Tier, since they are all very close in how good they are.

Q4T


i totally agree with you on every aspect of this post,
congrats

[Wilhelmsan]

Kirby does well vs. Sheik considering their places on the tier list.

You can avoid tilts, grabs, grounded needles, and aerials all by simply crouching. And let us not forget that Kirby has a wavedash. Kirby can rack damage on Sheik with his dtilt and good evasion. Usually you can eventually get the kill with well-placed bairs -> edgehog. Kirby's shuffled uair works as if it were meant to fit right under Sheik's tall shorthop.

All in all I would still say that the matchup is in Sheik's favor, but a good Kirby can win this without too much trouble.

[Walgreens Pharmacist]

Kirby does well vs. Sheik considering their places on the tier list.

You can avoid tilts, grabs, grounded needles, and aerials all by simply crouching. And let us not forget that Kirby has a wavedash. Kirby can rack damage on Sheik with his dtilt and good evasion. Usually you can eventually get the kill with well-placed bairs -> edgehog. Kirby's shuffled uair works as if it were meant to fit right under Sheik's tall shorthop.

All in all I would still say that the matchup is in Sheik's favor, but a good Kirby can win this without too much trouble.

a great kirby against a decent sheik will lose alot more than win.....

[HyugaRicdeau]

Kirby does well vs. Sheik considering their places on the tier list.

You can avoid tilts, grabs, grounded needles, and aerials all by simply crouching. And let us not forget that Kirby has a wavedash. Kirby can rack damage on Sheik with his dtilt and good evasion. Usually you can eventually get the kill with well-placed bairs -> edgehog. Kirby's shuffled uair works as if it were meant to fit right under Sheik's tall shorthop.

All in all I would still say that the matchup is in Sheik's favor, but a good Kirby can win this without too much trouble.

I still disagree. This isn't a match where the matchup is a lot closer than the tier list would suggest (like Link vs Marth or something). I would go so far as to say Pichu does better. As I've said, it's a relatively simple procedure for a Sheik to take care of a crouching Kirby. Maybe Kirby can get around it some percentage of the time and "rack up damage with dtilts," but it will be far, far less effective than any way Sheik has to damage Kirby. However good Kirby is at avoiding Sheik's whatever, Sheik is countless times better at avoiding Kirby's whatever. Sheik's crouch is basically as good as Kirby's, with better options out of the CC. Not to mention that simply trading hits is not a path to victory in any sense, especially when Sheik has much more reliable kills than Kirby can ever hope to have.

This is probably Kirby's second worst matchup after Marth.

[cablepuff]

no... fox and jiggs are worse and sheik vs kirby forces sheik players to change style.. something most sheik are not use to.. you can't do your usual grab , tilt offesnive mode on kirby, instead you need to aerial needle, go up on platform charge needle, run wd back, throw needle.. make sure you camp that you are always away from his sucking ability. and if in doubt avoid actual fighitng by needle camping and shield fair camping or back-air camping till the cows come home.

[HyugaRicdeau]

Fox is arguable, but not Jiggly. Just because Jiggly is a better Kirby doesn't mean she does better against Kirby than everyone else. And "most Sheiks" don't matter. Any Sheik that doesn't know how to not do the same exact thing against every character is irrelevant for the purposes of discussing matchups. So again, Sheik obliterates Kirby extremely hard. You said it yourself, just aerial needle and fair all day.

[Binx]

Actually as far as I have seen Kirby doesnt have a singe method of getting past the WoP without using his Up B as a projectile, which is unfortunately very laggy, if you just keep even the smallest amount of decent spacing with jiggs then kirby is out prioritized in every way and jiggs is fast with a better recovery. Kirby just kind of sucks, they took away everything that made him playable from the first smash bros, he is slower, less floaty, his 5 jumps barely gain as much height as anybodies one jump and his Up B isnt even good as a spike anymore (mostly due to improved DI not actuall game changes).

Stating that Kirby does well vs ANY character is blasphemy.

PS: I love the hell out of Kirby, he just isn't good.

[Ankoku]

I thought Kirby's Up+B was made worse because you can meteor-cancel now.

[KevinM]

Kirby is dead last on the tier list.. he has absolutely no potential and he is crap.. sorry Kirby lovers (T!mmy and Omni :chuckle:)

Agreeing with M2K on how DK should be higher..

I would even say high tier call me crazy, he has a lot of gay stuff to use just sayin..

Pikachu should be a little bit higher Gimp Kills on the ledge all day

[All_Characters]

I know that the bottom of the tier list will drastically change every time.

Several people I know will pick up mewtwo now that hes the worst, because they can just say "well he is the worst character" if they lose.

So yes, Kirby may move to low tier, but after that kirby would be right back up there with the rest of them.

[straight8]

Samus should be higher.
And kirby is no good. I think everybody except kirby players know that.
Link IMO should be lower. And Y Link should be top tier.

[slikvik]

i cant believe this is still up. well, while it is, IC are bound to move up. I haven't met one IC main who didn't rape with them

[DarkKnight077]

Samus should be higher.
And kirby is no good. I think everybody except kirby players know that.
Link IMO should be lower. And Y Link should be top tier.

Why? Link has a bunch of even match ups anyways. He is ok with the mid tiers and plus he does ok against Peach and Marth. Shiek is really only true counter anyways...He basically destorys the bottom tier.

Y. Link should climb lower a lot lower. Seeing that is impossible to beat Shiek, and basically the top and some of the mid tier sections. He maybe a sort of a Peach counter but his lack off of KO moves and approach will make him drop.

Link will be back on the mid tier and Y. Link will continue to drop so long there are Shieks, Capt, Foxes and Falcos.

[REDRAGON]

Would people get mad if i put my own tier list here and people critiqued it???
Is that illegal or something?

Redragon

[Aesir]

^ Yes it's illegal, I just called the cops.


Kirby blows srsly.

[REDRAGON]

^ Yes it's illegal, I just called the cops.


Kirby blows srsly.

hahahahah :laugh::laugh::laugh:............................
..................lame :ohwell:

ANYWAYS, can i make my tier list for discussion???

Redragon

[TheManaLord]

Not in this topic you can't.

[REDRAGON]

Not in this topic you can't.

So can you tell me where i can???
Gosh, hard to get any info on this site :psycho:

Redragon

[darE::to::Dream]

In the back room, duh.

If anyone were allowed to post tier lists, the mods would be REALLY busy closing all the stupid ones. You have to EARN the right to make a tier list.

[TheManaLord]

Or just try to make a topic titled "personal tier lists" or some crap like that. It might get locked though because it's a dumb topic.

[DarkKnight077]

Off Topic-ness: If I had a tier..list it would be this.

God tier:
Ken

Low Tier:
Everyone esle? >>

On-topic: I say....that Link needs go back to the mid tier but I think there are less Link players? I mean who stills plays Link in the states and goes to MLG? Or even EVO..

[captain smashie01]

Would people get mad if i put my own tier list here and people critiqued it???
Is that illegal or something?

Redragon

yes, making your own teir list results in instant death.
sorry.

[BigRick]

Top Tier:
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

High Tier:
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Samus

Middle Tier:
Ganondorf
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff!
Mario
Luigi

Low Tier:
Link
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Roy
Ness
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Game & Watch
Zelda
Bowser
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby

phew... feels good

EDIT: My list makes a lot moar sense IMO

[REDRAGON]

Top Tier:
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

High Tier:
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Samus

Middle Tier:
Ganondorf
Doctor Mario
Mario
Jigglypuff
Luigi

Low Tier:
Link
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Roy
Ness
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Game & Watch
Zelda
Bowser
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby

phew... feels good

EDIT: My list makes a lot moar sense IMO

Marth
Fox
Falco
Sheik
Peach
C. Falcon

then Jigglypuff above Doc and mario
and link above luigi

[BigRick]

- Noooo, Marth can't be on top because of Fox and Sheik, Marth is just a n00b rapist

- Falco used to dominate but now ppl are getting used to him... we see falco mains rely more and more on secondaries. Fox rapes less n00bs but is more solid.

- Falcon is better than Peach because he's faster, has better combos and better KO power. Slow = Bad is SSBM. We don't care about the crap recovery, Falco and Sheik also have crap recoveries

- Jiggs has a great offense (just like Falcon) but his arsenal is less reliable IMO. Jiggs above Mario should be fine instead *edits*

- Sry Link, but you stay a Low Tier... Fox Falco Sheik just doesn't like you.

And Twilight Princess sucks.

[darE::to::Dream]

:: And Twilight Princess sucks.
LOL

Sheik doesn't have crap recovery, as long as you grab the ledge from it. Peach has good recovery, good priority, and float-canceling does quite a bit for her speed.

[REDRAGON]

- Noooo, Marth can't be on top because of Fox and Sheik, Marth is just a n00b rapist

- Falco used to dominate but now ppl are getting used to him... we see falco mains rely more and more on secondaries. Fox rapes less n00bs but is more solid.

- Falcon is better than Peach because he's faster, has better combos and better KO power. Slow = Bad is SSBM. We don't care about the crap recovery, Falco and Sheik also have crap recoveries

- Jiggs has a great offense (just like Falcon) but his arsenal is less reliable IMO. Jiggs above Mario should be fine instead *edits*

- Sry Link, but you stay a Low Tier... Fox Falco Sheik just doesn't like you.

And Twilight Princess sucks.

-ok maybe falco you got right

-Falcon is NOT better then peach. Dude this is a self evident truth.
look at the facts then change it.

-What does doc have that jiggs does not?? In fact what does Doc have at all thats great?(worst recovery, short range,)

-Link is a great character with many pros on his side, while Luigi is just overrated...

[BigRick]

Well, Float Canceling does nothing for speed it just cuts lag.

It's easier for Falcon/Fox to land a few shffl'd Nairs on a Marth than for Peach.

EDIT for REDRAGON:

- Aha as a samus player you could answer yourself, who do you fear most? Peach or Falcon?

Falcon has godly speed, longer combos, a KO move (unlike Peach), better edgeguarding, a better Dair
Peach only has a projectile and better recovery... who cares about recovery if you get you can't fight for ****
I'm a former Peach main btw... I still play her now but now I play many characters

- Doc has a sick offense btw, he's one of my fav chars right now. It's just that he's not that popular.

- Jiggs could (arguably) be better than Mario cause Mario is just like Doc without the KO power but with better recovery...

- Link has many pros but he has a disease called Fox/Sheik

[DarkKnight077]

Luigi is underrated. Ask Ka-master...He does very good in tourneys. Link should be only Mid-tier.

Link rapes the low tier easily..but mid tier the only one gives him trouble is jiggs. After that Peach and Marth are even. Fox and Falco own him but not as badly as Shiek.

Doc can't combo like Mario..Mario has better combos than Doc. Doc has better projectiles and power. But..he is a tad slower than Mario in everything else.

And Big..TP doesn't suck but your logic and tier does.

Edit: You make that Colbert avatar look like shiz. Least Colbert is funny you aint boy.

[BigRick]

And Big..TP doesn't suck but your logic and tier does.

Edit: You make that Colbert avatar look like shiz. Least Colbert is funny you aint boy.

I'd suggest you to leave personal attacks out of this...

Unlike you, I only insulted Twilight Princess, which is not a personal attack, unless (you think) you're actually Link... then I would have to apologize.

Btw, glad to see we both like Colbert

[spike9407]

Top Tier:
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Falco

High Tier:
Captain Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Samus

Middle Tier:
Ganondorf
Doctor Mario
Mario
Jigglypuff
Luigi

Low Tier:
Link
Donkey Kong
Young Link
Roy
Pikachu
Ness

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Game & Watch
Zelda
Bowser
Kirby
Mewtwo
Pichu