The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Sensai]

The reason you see Fox/Falco/Sheik getting raped so much is because those are the only characters that anyone plays...

Heh.

I also am noticing that Sheiks are becoming less popular, and I'm not sure to what we can attribute that. Falco's popularity has crazy shot up, Fox has always been like this...but Sheik's going down. No idea.

[JBM falcon08]

red dragon.... peach vs sheik is considered one of the most even matchups... you could ask plenty of well known sheik mains and i bet they will say its even(ex plank).

[Aesir]

peach has lots of kill moves. uair, bair, nair, fair all kill. dair sets up for fc dsmash or nair or bair. all her smashes kill. turnips can be pretty nasty for edgeguarding. she can chain grab fast fallers. oh, and she can also combo pretty decently.Like said before anyone who can di decenlty isn't dying from them they'renot kill moves.

LOL What do you call her f-throw, d-smash, f-air, b-air, u-smash, and her great edgeguaring??? those are killers my stupid friend LOL

You seem to not know what a kill move is, a kill move is a move that the opponite has no chance of getting back from at all. like marths tipper fsmash or basically any move with amazing power and knock back. Peach doesn't possess this at all, her best is probably fair and f-throw but even they have to be at very high percents in order for it to be a kill move. she just has a lot of edgeguarding moves not kill moves.

Furthermore your examples are laughable. down smash a kill move? yeah maybe at 200 bair is not akill move, its an edge guard move. upsmash? Lol no good set ups, nice try though.


recovery is a horrid weakness fool, watch some videos, if C. Falcon gets off the stage he is most likely dead....LOL
Lol CF is a great character despite recovery. best combo game in the game if not one of the best. further more he has an amazing kill move.

Falco is very good because he has great combos, laser, speed, power (do i need to continue?)
Bolded, Falcon possess all those.

AMAZING!! Cf has one of the best combo games in the game?????? YOU ARE SO FRKIN SMART!!!!!:psycho::psycho:
...fool...[/quote] Yes I am. if that was sarcasm play a good cf and say he isn't an amazing combo character.



actually, falcon does have one of the best combo games...

regardless of DI, those moves will definitely kill at percents much lower than that. plus, peach has enough of an edgeguard game that those moves can easily be considered KO moves at percents much lower than 180. Otherwise I'd like you to explain to me why you don't see top pros living against good peaches at that high of percents very often.

She doesn't have a kill move that will just kill she has to edge guard those moves will only kil at very high percents. I'll give an example, fair a fox at 100% he can come back you'll have to edge guard. tipper a marth at 100% chances are he won't be touching the stage again unlessits a respawn.

gosh i feel bad for you...i said i would give you more details if you just asked....
oh well some of us have trouble reading the whole post...
i will write more tomorrow.

Redragon
Like you? You're so biased why don't you marry peach lol.

[shminkledorf]

Guys I love facing Falco with peach, I beat good peaches with Falco all the time >_>

Whoever said Falcon beats Peach is wrong. Aiser IS wrong about fthrow, it kind of blows a lot. And Sensai, Sheik isn't "getting" less popular, that stage is over >_>

[JBM falcon08]

sheiks best, marth follows second just because of sheiks, fox, falco, falcon, peach.

i don't need to list reasons why, i think everyone understands the list.

[REDRAGON]

everyone is saying she does not have a killing move.
Well first off the f-throw and f-air ARE killer moves.
Bu second, she has the downsmash which collect damage like CRAZY.
also the turnips collect damage easy also.
my point is that she puts on damage VERY easy which leads to killer earlier...
I am off to check out the peach and falcon boards to gather facts to show you to truth!!!

Redragon

[Aesir]

everyone is saying she does not have a killing move.
Well first off the f-throw and f-air ARE killer moves.
Dorf corrected me, that move is not a kill move. it only kills at like 170ish thats not reliable. >_> and fair is a respectable kill move. however knee in the face > peaches fair.

Bu second, she has the downsmash which collect damage like CRAZY.
also the turnips collect damage easy also.
my point is that she puts on damage VERY easy which leads to killer earlier...
Not really because she has to get them to high percents before it kills them.

I am off to check out the peach and falcon boards to gather facts to show you to truth!!!

Redragon

>_>

[REDRAGON]

ok ok
You Falcon fanboys, read this and tell me if you disagree. I have looked around and most people agree with all this:

Peach is better against: Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Falcons!!!

Falcon is better against: Marth.........

Based off matchups and the characters you see in tourneys this should prove that Peach>>>Falcon!!

Redragon

[Aesir]

ok ok
You Falcon fanboys, read this and tell me if you disagree. I have looked around and most people agree with all this:

Peach is better against: Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Falcons!!!

Falcon is better against: Marth.........

Based off matchups and the characters you see in tourneys this should prove that Peach>>>Falcon!!

Redragon

Falcon does well vs fox and okay vs falco. >_> where you getting your info?

also peach just does better then cf I don't think I was arguing that. you were giving crappy reasoning.

[BigRick]

My answer to REDRAGON's statements:

- Well first off the f-throw and f-air ARE killer moves.

Yeah, fthrow/fair/nair are the main killing moves... but all of them will only kill at above 100% on small stages and at around 130ish % on larger stages. We can't consider them effective killer moves like Falcon's knee ou Fox's upsmash that kill at under 100% in most cases

- Bu second, she has the downsmash which collect damage like CRAZY.

Only if they CC it or if they jump into it from under the platform. Max amount of hits that you get normally would be two (if you use it on Falco/Ganon at low % or if you use it on slanted terrain)

- also the turnips collect damage easy also.

Well they DO damage... but turnips can't be spammed all day like SHL because they can be caught. Turnips are mostly used for rushing and edgeguarding.

- my point is that she puts on damage VERY easy which leads to killer earlier...

Not really, Peach's slow speed and lack of range means she has a harder time to find openings on openents that are faster or have longer range. She has okay combo starters in her dash attack and up throw, but she doesn't have easy 50% dmg combos into kill move that Falcon does.

What saves her is that when she gets to her opponent, she has a very good pressure game but then again, Falcon also has a very good pressure game.

- I am off to check out the peach and falcon boards to gather facts to show you to truth!!!

No need to go there, you got a regular poster on the Peach boards here ;)

[REDRAGON]

Falcon does well vs fox and okay vs falco. >_> where you getting your info?

also peach just does better then cf I don't think I was arguing that. you were giving crappy reasoning.

For Falco i got my reasons here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=95998

For Fox i got my reasons here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=35050

For Falcon vs peach here, phanna's guide agrees with me and because of videos i watched and the fact that peach can edge guard Falcon great, Chaingrab him like crazy, has projectiles, and can recovery against that cursed knee, Peach has the advantage(most will agree, trust me)

So again:

Peach: Fox, Falco, Falcon, Sheik
Falcon: Marth

Redragon

[BigRick]

ok ok
You Falcon fanboys, read this and tell me if you disagree. I have looked around and most people agree with all this:

Peach is better against: Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Falcons!!!

Falcon is better against: Marth.........

Based off matchups and the characters you see in tourneys this should prove that Peach>>>Falcon!!

Redragon

Tech Fox rapes both Peach AND Falcon.
Peach is better gainst Falco I agree.
Campy Sheik rapes Peach but it seems that most Sheik Players can't play against Peach.
Falcon vs Peach is even
Falcon does okay against Marth but Peach isn't that bad either...

The thing with Peach is that she's so different that if sum1 doesn't play her regularly, he's going to get owned.

[REDRAGON]

Tech Fox rapes both Peach AND Falcon.
Peach is better gainst Falco I agree.
Campy Sheik rapes Peach but it seems that most Sheik Players can't play against Peach.
Falcon vs Peach is even
Falcon does okay against Marth but Peach isn't that bad either...

The thing with Peach is that she's so different that if sum1 doesn't play her regularly, he's going to get owned.

So we are makin progress...good..

Ok for Sheik doing better against Falcon i got my info here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91503

[BigRick]

We all know that Sheik do better against Falcon... but don't forget about the other chars.

Falcon does better against Samus, Ganondorf, Doctor Mario...

[REDRAGON]

We all know that Sheik do better against Falcon... but don't forget about the other chars.

Falcon does better against Samus, Ganondorf, Doctor Mario...

Ok so we ALL agree on this:

Peach: Fox, Falco, Falcon, Sheik
Falcon: Marth

and in tourneys you see mostly Fox's/falco's with a decent amount of Sheik and a few Marths.....
This should prove my point

Redragon

[Samochan]

Ok so we ALL agree on this:

Peach: Fox, Falco, Falcon, Sheik
Falcon: Marth

and in tourneys you see mostly Fox's/falco's with a decent amount of Sheik and a few Marths.....
This should prove my point

Redragon

But regardless of either one's matchups, you still see Falcon players placing higher than peach players on tournaments. ^_^

[TheManaLord]

Exactly, individual matchups don't mean **** reddragon.

If the tier list was based on that, then we'd have a statistical tier list that never changed. In which case there would be no arguing.

But the tier list we have is based on current standings, trends, and results. And right now, Falcon is doing excellent, taking third at a major tournament by a relatively new and unknown player (Jiano). Where are the peaches? WHERE? Hell, even PC Chris went Falcon v M2K recently after his Peach was 4 stocked. Falcon is all over. G-reg won Battle for Western New York recently with Falcon.

Pound 2- Jiano 3rd
BWNY 4(?)- G-reg 1st



So put up or shut up.

[Samochan]

Btw, I've never heard of a peach player winning a nicely sized tournament, as opposed to Falcon's winning. ^^ (correct me if I'm wrong, just don't hit me >_> ) And in most cases peaches don't even get money, opposed to many Falcons that roam this land.

[REDRAGON]

Exactly, individual matchups don't mean **** reddragon.

If the tier list was based on that, then we'd have a statistical tier list that never changed. In which case there would be no arguing.

But the tier list we have is based on current standings, trends, and results. And right now, Falcon is doing excellent, taking third at a major tournament by a relatively new and unknown player (Jiano). Where are the peaches? WHERE? Hell, even PC Chris went Falcon v M2K recently after his Peach was 4 stocked. Falcon is all over. G-reg won Battle for Western New York recently with Falcon.

Pound 2- Jiano 3rd
BWNY 4(?)- G-reg 1st



So put up or shut up.

Where do you get your info about who wins what tourneys??? I would like to see who has won the last 10 or so tourneys....

Edit: 400th post yehow!!!!!

[TheManaLord]

TOURNAMNET RESULTS

There's an entire section for it.

[slikvik]

Btw, I've never heard of a peach player winning a nicely sized tournament, as opposed to Falcon's winning. ^^ (correct me if I'm wrong, just don't hit me >_> ) And in most cases peaches don't even get money, opposed to many Falcons that roam this land.

Peaches usually win money in teams. I agree with you that in singles, peaches don't usually win

[Samochan]

Peaches usually win money in teams. I agree with you that in singles, peaches don't usually win

That's cause peach is top tier in teams. ^_^

[REDRAGON]

TOURNAMNET RESULTS

There's an entire section for it.

I have been looking around there and found very little, considering they don't usually put what character they played as.
Give me more facts.

Redragon

[Aesir]

^ Look at results. >_>

[Emblem Lord]

Jiano and G-reg main falcon. This is a fact.

Falcon does better in tournies cause he racks up damage faster, and has an awesome offense with his amazing dash dancing which augment hiss pressure game. He has insane mix-up potential thanks to his nair, his jabs and his moonwalk. He is a very safe character because his aerials give alot of shield stun. And he has an awesome kill move and garuanteed kills off of his grabs.

Overall he can take control of the match alot better then Peach can. BTW I think Falcon should be ahead of Peach.

[TheManaLord]

You see now he's just showing his ignorance to the tournament scene. This is one reason why your arguments are already null. Captain Falcon should be above Peach.

[REDRAGON]

Jiano and G-reg main falcon. This is a fact.

Falcon does better in tournies cause he racks up damage faster, and has an awesome offense with his amazing dash dancing which augment hiss pressure game. He has insane mix-up potential thanks to his nair, his jabs and his moonwalk. He is a very safe character because his aerials give alot of shield stun. And he has an awesome kill move and garuanteed kills off of his grabs.

Overall he can take control of the match alot better then Peach can. BTW I think Falcon should be ahead of Peach.

so be it.
I will let this argument stop, but i still am not convinced. Imo peach is better, but like i said this debate is done....

Redragon

[spike9407]

According to REDRAGON's reasonings, Peach is far superior to each character in the higher tiers and everyone should use her.

[TheManaLord]

Hey he already lost his argument no reason to add insult to injury.

[SCOTU]

CF for high tier.

[REDRAGON]

Hey he already lost his argument no reason to add insult to injury.

yeah when Emblem lord (a smart guy) added his 2 cents, i admit that Falcon might be as good.
But(no offense to you) your arguments were not that great(think through them before you speak)

[TheManaLord]

lawl I'm the one who shut you up. Now you're just holding a personal vendetta.

Stop acting like a child.

[REDRAGON]

lawl I'm the one who shut you up. Now you're just holding a personal vendetta.

Stop acting like a child.

Ok I am over this...

[DarkKnight077]

Well Peach isss soooo great. Then how come she is not Top Tier?

Oh I know because maybe Peach has all over the place in the matchups. Pllusssss..PC would rape a Peach.

It's all about Skillz in matchups sure you may have the advantage but in the tourneys is all about Skillz not about matchups. And also mindgames too.

[Smooth_One]

He has insane mix-up potential thanks to his nair, his jabs and his moonwalk.

...His moonwalk?

[darE::to::Dream]

Falcon has probably the best combo ever - Moonwalk to Win combo.

[spike9407]

Hey he already lost his argument no reason to add insult to injury.

Look at times.

[Emblem Lord]

His moonwalk is sick. Moonwalk to nair then jab. Moonwalk to grab. Moonwalk to stomp. Moonwalk to roll. Jab to moonwalk to etc.

I could go on forever.

[DarkKnight077]

Link moonwalk pwns. Link moonwalk to Dair! Dudesssss.

[Smooth_One]

I agree that the moonwalk is uber sexy, Emblem Lord, but it doesn't have that much practicality. It's like a powered-down SWD in that, when you see a Falcon (or Link) moonwalk, you stay away.
Yeah long-range backward Knees are cool and they add unpredictability to your game, but you can do everything without the moonwalk that you can do WITH the moonwalk.

Or maybe I don't think outside the box. Do you consider it to be like a WD but bigger (usage-wise)?