The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah, pretty much a long wavedash since he can do whatever he wants. I mean he can dash cross-up to moonwalk to turn around and grab.

Hot and amazing.

[TheManaLord]

Well it gives you MORE range that you wouldn't have without wavedashing. It's best for edgeguarding because you can go much farther and still be able to recover.

[REDRAGON]

Tell me what you guys think of my tier list(btw i did this pretty quick...)

Marth/Fox
Falco
Sheik
Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Samus
JigglyPuff
Ganon
Doc
Link
Mario
Luigi
Dk
Pikachu
Y. Link
Roy
Ness
Yoshi
Zelda
G&W
Mewtwo
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

[Smooth_One]

You put Falcon over Peach...
Heck I'd do it too after the huge debate you just raged.
Really, you have to decide on the friggin' number one spot. Marth or Fox?
Jiggs below Ganon.
Doc, Mario, Link, DK, Luigi, then continue with Pika.

[Aesir]

>_>
Lol why sheik so low?

[spike9407]

Tell me what you guys think of my tier list(btw i did this pretty quick...)

Marth/Fox
Falco
Sheik
Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Samus
JigglyPuff
Ganon
Doc
Link
Mario
Luigi
Dk
Pikachu
Y. Link
Roy
Ness
Yoshi
Zelda
G&W
Mewtwo
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

Pretty good. Marth's spot on the list can differ a good bit. I seriously can't change from Marth without thikning I can forward smash them when they are a ways back.

[REDRAGON]

>_>
Lol why sheik so low?

MAYBE Sheik above Falco, but i dont know...

Give me your reasons and i might change it....

Redragon

[Sensai]

My JESUS M2 is high. Higher then Bowser?

Lies lies lies.

[REDRAGON]

My JESUS M2 is high. Higher then Bowser?

Lies lies lies.

Mewtwo is better then pichu and Kirby FOR SURE....
I heard T!mmy and a few others say that also.
As for Mewtwo being better then Bowser, i dont know.
Bowser seems so........bad..........
M2 has more potential imho
Please though tell me your reason and i might switch it!!!


Redragon

[Sushiman]

T!mmy once told me that Pichu may in fact be better than Kirby. Mew2 should be higher than Kirby as well. But Kirby is sooo cool! ):

[BigRick]

Marth/Fox
Falco
Sheik
Falcon
Peach
Ice Climbers
Samus
JigglyPuff
Ganon
Doc
Link
Mario
Luigi
Dk
Pikachu
Y. Link
Roy
Ness
Yoshi
Zelda
G&W
Mewtwo
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

- Fox should be considered first.
- Marth/Falco and Sheik's positions are volatile... they're can switch spots easily but usually Sheik is never ranked below Marth because Sheik soft counters him.
- You underestimate Mario, Link isn't better than him.
- I would put Jiggs under Ganon
- Bowser = Mew2 so it doesn't really matter who's above who, as long as their next to each other

That's an okay list.

[SCOTU]

Well, i'd start it off as:
Fox
Falco

Marth
Sheik
Captain Falcon

Peach
Ice climbers
...


but that's just me...

of course if you were thinking about a "perfectly played" characters, i'd go:

Fox
Falco
ICs
CF
Samus
Doc
...
...

but that's really weird now that i look at it, so pretend i didn't post it.

And i love your sig, BigRick!

[REDRAGON]

Marth is in the top 2. Maybe Fox is better, but Marth is better then Sheik and Falco(Falco for sure)

As for Mario being so good: Mario range, horrid recovery, lack of killing moves make him worse imo then link
But really give me your reason!!! Please!!


Redragon

[Emblem Lord]

Fox should always be number one. Marth, Sheik, and Falco should just tie for the next 3 spots since they are all interchangable IMO.

[darE::to::Dream]

Marth is in the top 2. Maybe Fox is better, but Marth is better then Sheik and Falco(Falco for sure)

As for Mario being so good: Mario range, horrid recovery, lack of killing moves make him worse imo then link
But really give me your reason!!! Please!!


Redragon

Okay. Here.

I see mario as a average charactor: Has good combos, speed, throws etc
His cons: Horrible recovery, low range, hard time killing, etc etc

I'm pretty sure Mario's only cons are his small grab range and low KO power. His recovery is ridiculously good. Have you ever fought a Mario who shoots fireballs properly while recovering? They're hard to get around.

Lets compare.

Mario
Pros
One of the best grab games in the game
Combos are tight and effective
Top notch ledgeguards
Variable recovery
Hard to combo
Cons
Low aerial priority for the most part
Small grab range

Uhh lets see Links pros
Projectiles game
Good ledgeguard
Cons
High lag on alot of moves
Slow as ****
Low quality and rare combos
Heavy fastfaller weight class = easy combos
Easy to edgeguard

Im not even gonna touch the roy and pikachu part, those characters are just god awful

Plus Mario doesn't have a bad matchup with every single character in the game.

[max32090]

needs to be changed

falco
marth
fox
sheik
peach

sooo many falcos and marths winning tournys now

[REDRAGON]

Okay. Here.

lol Eggz makes it seem like Marios recovery is the best...Fireballs dont help Mario when his up-b has so little range...
Good grab game??? Sure IF you grab them his grab game is OK, but Marios grab range sucks bad...
Combo game: I agree
Hard to combo: Not one of the hardest by a long run but still i agree
Good edge guarding, i guess, but still Links is way better..
So Eggz was only right on like 2.....:ohwell:

Uhh lets see Links pros
Projectiles game
Good ledgeguard
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA thats all he put what about these:
Large range with close up attacks and projectiles
Multiple and useful projectiles and is very proficient at spacing with them against his opponents as well
Has a large grab range
Has powerful smashes and aerial attacks
Has one of the best nairs in the game due to good knock back and fast speed when SHFFL'd
Can Fast Fall very well
Up-B is a good finisher and edgeguarding tool
Can recover via bombs (Bomb recovery) and hookshot to keep him alive longer
His Hylian Sheild can act on it's own and defend against projectiles when standing stationary

So far i still think Link>>>Mario
I need reasons....


Redragon

[darE::to::Dream]

lol Eggz makes it seem like Marios recovery is the best...Fireballs dont help Mario when his up-b has so little range...
Exactly how many Marios have you played against? His recovery is better than you seem to think.

Large range with close up attacks and projectiles
Multiple and useful projectiles and is very proficient at spacing with them against his opponents as well
Mostly covered in projectiles already. Link's range is rather limited by the lag of his attacks, keep in mind.

Has a large grab range
So do Samus and Yoshi. But are those really pros, when you think about the added lag time because of that range?

Has powerful smashes and aerial attacks
Bowser has powerful smashes and aerial attacks.

Has one of the best nairs in the game due to good knock back and fast speed when SHFFL'd
Agreed.

Up-B is a good finisher and edgeguarding tool
Half agreed. UpB is a very punishable finisher when shielded, and not a universal edgeguard at all.

Can recover via bombs (Bomb recovery) and hookshot to keep him alive longer
Mario can Up+B to Walljump recovery. His cape actually gives a little vertical similar to Marth's Side+B. Mario's Down+B can give AMAZING recovery if done properly.

His Hylian Sheild can act on it's own and defend against projectiles when standing stationary
Uhh.....
So, like, you can win a game by standing still?

[Aesir]

Large range with close up attacks and projectiles
Multiple and useful projectiles and is very proficient at spacing with them against his opponents as well
Mostly covered in projectiles already. Link's range is rather limited by the lag of his attacks, keep in mind.
No it isn't a half decent link player can space properly and avoid getting wrecked. his range isn't off set by his speed all that much.

Has a large grab range
So do Samus and Yoshi. But are those really pros, when you think about the added lag time because of that range?
Yes actually, the grab range is nice, its only laggy when you miss. links hook shot comes out fast enough when it isn't abused to be useful. When abused its easy to pick up on.



Up-B is a good finisher and edgeguarding tool
Half agreed. UpB is a very punishable finisher when shielded, and not a universal edgeguard at all.
You ahve to see it coming before you can actually shield it. it comes out fast enough.

[REDRAGON]

His recovery is in the bottom 5, i think on the recovery tier list he was 4th from bottom...

Samus's and Yoshis grab suck because there startup time and lack of combos and shield garbing barely works. Link has a great startup time, GREAT combos after a grab and can shield grab nicely...

"Bowser has powerful smashes and aerial attacks." Yes but Bowser has bad startup and lag afterwards,while link is fairly quick for his power and the lag is not bad if you l-cancel...

His recovery sucks....

Up-B is great to end combos after a grab and is a good edge guarder cause its a semi-spike.

The Hylian shield is great against Spammers. I fought a great link player as Samus and most the time when my missiles and charged shoot would have hit/killed a player he just stood there and the shield took the shoot. Think about how much its helps against Fox, Falco, Samus, other link and Ylinks etc etc

Link>>>>>Mario
Need more reasons GOOD ONES PLEASE!!!

Btw Aesir are you on my side???

[darE::to::Dream]

What? It doesn't help at all against Falco OR Fox. Trust me on that, if SHL can't get past the shield then the Falco/Fox player just sucks.

Link might or might not be better than Mario if you take each separate thing that's better... But Sheik's chaingrabbing is what defines a large majority of the low tiers, and Link gets chaingrabbed until 90%. Mario doesn't get chaingrabbed by Sheik at all.

90% >>>>>> 0%, amirite?

[Aesir]

This is true, they can alternate the hight of the lasers. sure you can block a few but there will be a hight where link will get hit by it.

[Repryx]

Great More Johns when I use Falco....:lick:

[REDRAGON]

What? It doesn't help at all against Falco OR Fox. Trust me on that, if SHL can't get past the shield then the Falco/Fox player just sucks.

Link might or might not be better than Mario if you take each separate thing that's better... But Sheik's chaingrabbing is what defines a large majority of the low tiers, and Link gets chaingrabbed until 90%. Mario doesn't get chaingrabbed by Sheik at all.

90% >>>>>> 0%, amirite?

Yes it does help fool. How can you say its does not help?!?!?!? Its not a negative lol.
It will block some of the lasers. Maybe like 30% which WILL help.

So you admit now that Link is better at "separate" things lol
One chaingrab does not put Mario over Link...
Thats one matchup that goes in Marios favor...Maybe...
I am off to check the matchups with Sheik and Link and Mario...

Redragon

[DarkKnight077]

Umm Link's Fair>>>Mario's Fair. That's all I'm gonna say. As a Link Main, Link has a bunch of even mathups. Mario kind of does too except Mario gets raped harder when facing Fox or Falco than Link. Link gets raped by just Shiek the most. Fox and Falco are hard for Link but it's not you can't win them.

And also your Link con points are right Eggz. ^^; But he also has great pros.

[REDRAGON]

I know this really does not matter, just a little, but Link does do better against Mario...

[DarkKnight077]

Lmfao not really. Mario can the combo the crap out of a Link. Plus Link projectiles need to spam like hell. I wouldn't..say that Link has advatange on a Mario. Link has a better Fair and maybe better Nair. And better projectiles but that's it.

[REDRAGON]

Lmfao not really. Mario can the combo the crap out of a Link. Plus Link projectiles need to spam like hell. I wouldn't..say that Link has advatange on a Mario. Link has a better Fair and maybe better Nair. And better projectiles but that's it.

Also Link can survive longer cause he is heavier and has a WAY better recovery...
Not to mention that Link outranges Mario and link has a killing move lol.
Sure Mario can combo but Link has weight, projectile, recovery, range and power on his side which gives him the advantage.

Redragon

[DarkKnight077]

Better recovery? Not really. Up-B cancel of Mario's pwns Link's excuse of a bomb jump. Plus Mario can recover five ways, Link only three. ..Err Link has many killing moves. Sureee Up-B semi spike might kill but it needs to hit. You can't spin at any time it needs to be right.

Link don't have speed. Shffling make Link go faster but his Wavedash sucks, horribly.

[TGM]

Just face it, link cant be better than mario.

[mog112]

im not saying whos better, but the thing eggz posted about link being easy to edgeguard is wrong.

link is one of the hardest characters to edgeguard in the game.


edit - also stop including points about characters that arent really that usefull. marios
up - b wall thing cant be used a lot. same thing with links bomb jump.

and it doesnt matter how many ways you have to recover. if you have 1 way to recover but you get back everytime then who cares.

[Aesir]

Link isn't better. >.>;

[TGM]

im not saying whos better, but the thing eggz posted about link being easy to edgeguard is wrong.

link is one of the hardest characters to edgeguard in the game.


Ive found it a joy to fight a ink while its recovering.

Marth, fall off and counter

falco, hop and dair links head(its VERY EASY cause links up B is slow AND u can see what areas will hit u)

Fox, jump and shine his head

samus, jump and spike head




links head combined with his slow recovery= death


now if he tried to grapple the side...............all characters can beat that.

[Repryx]

Actually Link is easy to edge guard depending on who you use. Sheik...No problem
Samus nair(FREAKING HIGH PRIORITY) Ganon Down B in the air Roy & Marth counter or sword dance. Mario, Cape. CF knee or dair. Fox SHINE Dont over estimate link's recovery...

[mog112]

well your simple explantions of how easy to edgeguard are not correct. yes most of things can be done but none of them easily.

if you play a link good at recovering you will realize how hard it is to edgeguard link.

[darE::to::Dream]

Fox ledge-invincibility to Shine can't be beaten by Link. I don't know how you would edgeguard with Dancing Blade/DED, though...

If Link is forced to use his hookshot, anyone can edgeguard if they're aggressive enough about it.

[TGM]

good link or bad. the examples still work. i kid u not mog.

[mog112]

well sometimes i forget this is the melee discussion. i know better than to check here every once in a while.

[REDRAGON]

Ok i am gonna try and make the lower half of the tier list, tell me what you all think:

Link
Luigi
Dk
Pikachu
Y. Link
Roy
Ness
Zelda
Yoshi
G&W
Mewtwo
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

[darE::to::Dream]

I think Pika is better than DK. Check with Gimpyfish about Bowser, he might actually be lower than Pichu.