The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Smooth_One]

It is pretty obnoxious, yeah. But I dunno, saying that Fox doesn't require mindgames (or something to that effect, whatever) is even more so.
I'm hoping it gets the message across. There are only 6 or so posts left on this page (on my setting anyway) so it'll be buried in, oh, four minutes I'd say.

[Brookman]

Is it just that the characters above samus have more clearly advantageous match ups than she does? what keeps her below falcon/ICs? I never really thought about it.

[Cort]

When's the last time a Samus did good at a tournament?

[56k]

Exactly. .

[Brookman]

Some time when hugs beat someone a while ago probably. The question is though, does hugs play samus right? I guess hugs abuses her strongest points, which would mean that he does, I think? So I guess samus just sucks.

edit: I just realized the difference between samus and everyone above her. The Z button. Also, it's not like her throws are fantastic, should she land a grab anyway.

[Reese]

Okay I understand. Thanks for clearing that up.

[56k]

Every time I watch a good Samus play I always think to myself that she can still be used a lot better. It feels like her metagame hasn't reached full potential yet, and that most Samii are are just doing the same old stuff and the noob Samii are trying to spam their way to victory.

[Pat/Pro]

I agree that if samus had better grabs she would be one of the best characters in the game. As of now her grabs just plain suck and no one plays her enough to discover a higher level of play for her because she can be boring and scary to play with the large number of marths and shieks out there to counter her.

[Rohins]

Things holding Samus back imho are:

The lack of strong kill moves. She relies on edge guarding for the most part. She's good at edge guarding but it doesn't really make up for the lack of a good kill move.

Her grab game revolves around you tricking your opponent to being grabbed or tech chasing, no real free grab.

She has no real set sweet combo. Majority of her combos are based on your opponent unintentionally cooperating with what you wanted to do.

Her mistakes are fatal. Sure if you're on top of your game you won't mess up simple things, but something as stupid as rolling instead of wave dashing out of shield can get you really messed up.

[kenny10]

Things holding Samus back imho are:

The lack of strong kill moves. She relies on edge guarding for the most part. She's good at edge guarding but it doesn't really make up for the lack of a good kill move.

Don't a lot of characters rely on edge guarding? I mean look at Falco, Sheik, Peach and many others because they lack good vertical kill moves. And Samus still has more kill moves compared to other characters, say, Pichu. In my experience, most of Pichu's kills comes from edge guarding and has no good finishers. Meanwhile, Samus has her charged B shot, D-Smash, Forward-Smash, and nair at higher percentages.

[Rohins]

Hmm well first Flaco's dtilt, Sheik's uair and upsmash, and Peach's uair and upsmash are better vertical killing moves than anything Samus has. They might not be the best, but at least they have the ability.

I'm not sure why you brought Pichu as part of the discussion since Pichu is pretty low on the tier list. I was speaking in regards to people above Samus and why she isn't higher not how lower tiered characters are similar.

Of the "kill moves" you listed none of them save for maybe the charge blast really guarantee death except for at absurd percentages. I'm not saying they're bad, for the most part they are great for setting up her nice edge guard. What I'm saying is they don't finish the job say like Fox's upsmash, Marth's tippered fsmash, Falcon's Knee, etc.

I also understand that this setback isn't necessarily the most important, but I think it has it's place since many of the characters above her have an easier time killing. Like other people have mentioned, her grab game probably is a bigger deterrent of her being a better character.

[slikvik]

I believe it................

lol, and I believe you're a less than average samus main who wants everyone to think you're good

[Del Money]

Hmm well first Flaco's dtilt, Sheik's uair and upsmash, and Peach's uair and upsmash are better vertical killing moves than anything Samus has. They might not be the best, but at least they have the ability.

I'm not sure why you brought Pichu as part of the discussion since Pichu is pretty low on the tier list. I was speaking in regards to people above Samus and why she isn't higher not how lower tiered characters are similar.

Of the "kill moves" you listed none of them save for maybe the charge blast really guarantee death except for at absurd percentages. I'm not saying they're bad, for the most part they are great for setting up her nice edge guard. What I'm saying is they don't finish the job say like Fox's upsmash, Marth's tippered fsmash, Falcon's Knee, etc.

I also understand that this setback isn't necessarily the most important, but I think it has it's place since many of the characters above her have an easier time killing. Like other people have mentioned, her grab game probably is a bigger deterrent of her being a better character.

exactly. samus isnt big on finishing moves but great for building up damage. the throw sucks. the forward smash is ok at best. the fast missile and the charge beam are her only trumph cards at 100+%

lol, and I believe you're a less than average samus main who wants everyone to think you're good

i would rather give him the benefit of the doubt before he proves that i can call his bluff

[Emblem Lord]

I don't think people use Samus to her full potential as well. But I could say the same thing about Peach too. Although XIF showed that Peaches metagame is still evolving at Pound 2 when he used the Peach Pillar.

I don't think Samii spam enough or spam intelligently enough. I don't think alot of them abuse her options out of shield enough. I don't they abuse her bombs enough to deter people from approaching or keep people in thier shield. I think most Samii rely on tricks instead of relying on solid strats.

Her grabs are ok. D-throw is good for floaties and sets up for kills. U-throw is used against fast fallers.

Samii need to abuse missile cancelling intelligently. It's too good. They need to spam her safer moves too. Tilts and tipper f-smash I believe. They need to start dropping bombs more to force people into the air that way they can shoot a missile and force an opponent to deal with.

And uhhh, up b outta shield too. Can't forget that.

[Del Money]

And uhhh, up b outta shield too. Can't forget that.

oh wow that works well for samus too? thats an imprtant part of my DK game

[56k]

Yeah, up B out of shield is amazing for Samus. If you want to see it in action, just watch HugS' Samus :)

It's a big part of my Samus game, it's surprising how often people can get hit by it in one match.

[BigRick]

I really miss the rep system... :(

The big flaw we had was that every1 could rep.

And I think that Hugs has almost pushed Samus' meta to the limit IMO.
Only thing left maybe would be intelligent bomb usage to control space in her keepaway game.

Kinda like cable lol... gun, 'nades and viper

[Emblem Lord]

Speaking of Cable.

Zero Cannon= Hyper viper on steroids IMO. >_>

[BigRick]

Speaking of Cable.

Zero Cannon= Hyper viper on steroids IMO. >_>

lol yeah but I doubt that it has the same godlike startup

Also I don't like the fact that you're stuck playing as Zero Sam after that.

Maybe you become normal when u respawn???

[Emblem Lord]

Zero Samus is the new Shiek. Truth.

And I think Sakurai screwed up royally with ZSS and how she comes into play.

[Del Money]

Zero Samus is the new Shiek. Truth.

And I think Sakurai screwed up royally with ZSS and how she comes into play.

i know this has nothing to do with this thread but i think sexy suit samus may have another way to play. notice how she was labeled as a newcomer yet giga bowser was not. she'll eventually get her profile

back on topic: samus is one of the few characters ive never played as enough to learn a play style for her

[Virgilijus]

Don't jump the gun: until we have the game in our hands we can't say for sure if she is only playable that way.

[mood4food77]

samus is fine where she is, she's not going anywhere, she's not as good as anyone above her, but is better than everyone below her

the top 4 will be the same, but changing order always, most likely it will be fox, marth, sheik, falco (fox can go tournament solo, marth may have some difficulties, sheik has problems with the increasing number of ICs, and falco can't go solo)

the next 3 will most likely be peach, ICs, falcon, peach will never come out of top 5, it's really close between them though

the next 5 should be samus, ganon, doc, mario, jiggs, samus only has sheik, peach, and ganon to worry about, she can deal with the spacies, ganon has sheik to worry about, the fast fallers are tough but he can handle them, doc is becoming a counter pick to the spacies and sheik, mario is like doc just not as powerful, and jiggs is too good for low tier even though she has a lot of bad match-ups, but she really isn't countered

the next 3 are definitely going to be DK, luigi, link, don't know the order but they should come out of low tier, DK can combo fastfallers and sheik from 0-death, luigi can deal with the fastfallers and sheik decently, link is just too good for low tier

the next 3, y. link, roy, pika are still allowed in low tier, but better than the characters below them by a lot, y. link does very well against peach, jiggs, and marth, roy does decent against the same 3, pika does really well on jiggs and pretty much rapes anyone below him

the next 4, g&w, yoshi, ness, zelda, are better than bottom tier but not as good as pika, g&w does well against spacies, yoshi does well against marth, ness does decent against spacies, falcon, and zelda just...is there, but she is better than the bottom 4

the bottom, bowser, kirby, pichu, mewtwo, bowser can handle spacies, kirby can do best against sheik, pichu follows bowser and kirby being the next best against the top 4, and mewtwo...gets raped by all of them

[56k]

^^^ Like I said before, I've never seen a bad post from this guy. Very well done, you basically summed up all our little matchup discussions with that post. Lots of relevant info that I can't really argue against.

[Emblem Lord]

I think the fact that Marth and Fox are really the only characters that can go solo in a tourney and win pretty much proves that they and only they can have the right to the number 1 and number 2 spots. Order doesn't matter to me.

[mood4food77]

i think the fact that fox has almost no bad match-ups will keep him number one and marth number 2

so basically, it might look like this

god:
fox
marth
sheik
falco

upper:
peach
ICs
falcon

high:
samus
ganon
doc
mario
jiggs

mid:
DK
luigi
link

low:
y. link
roy
pika

lower:
g&w
yoshi
ness
zelda

bottom:
bowser
kirby
pichu
mewtwo

[TheManaLord]

Top

Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco


High

Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Peach


Middle

Jigglypuff
Samus
Ganon
Doc
Mario
DK
Luigi
Link


Low

Pikachu
Roy
Young Link
Yoshi
Game and Watch
Ness
Zelda


Bottom

Bowser
Kirby
Mewtwo
Pichu




imo this a beautiful tier list

[t!MmY]

Bowser > Mewtwo > Kirby > Pichu

BTW. Kirby gets raped by Sheik, which is really sad because it's probably his best matchup out of Fox, Falco, Marth, and Sheik. And it's still a better matchup for him than some other characters who aren't top tier. x_x

[mood4food77]

kirby still does better against fox and falco than mewtwo and pichu do, he also does the best against marth

bowser just does a lot better on fox and falco than the other 3

[t!MmY]

No, even Pichu does better against the top tiers than Kirby (with the arguable exception of Sheik). This is assuming the space animals know how to play against their respective opponents.

[TGM]

kirby can TGM combo, so that automaticly make shim much better than pichu.

[mood4food77]

what about marth,i think kirby does much better on him too than pichu does

[BigRick]

I agree with mood here... Kaabii over Mewtwo!!!

Aiiiiie!

[Eggm]

God tier :
Marth
Fox

Top tier :
Sheik
Falco

Upper tier :
Peach
Captain falcon
Ice climbers

High tier :
Samus
Jiggs

Mid tier :
Doc
Mario
Gannon
Dk
Link
Luigi
m2

Low tier :
The rest.

[TGM]

Marth STARTED the TGM combo.......kirby has zero advantage on the creator.

[t!MmY]

I think Kirby takes Marth better than Pichu.

[goateeguy]

no offense, but i liked the format where it showed which matchups would be in favor of each specific characters much more than this. it said why they were better, not just that they were.

[Sliq]

Kirby has to be the worst character in the game. It seems like both Mewtwo and Pichu have more going for them than Kirby.

[pockyD]

Mid tier :
Doc
Mario
Gannon
Dk
Link
Luigi
m2


Get out of here, eggmaster

[BigRick]

Kirby can camp the ledge like no other.
Mew2 might try the teleport spam, but it's risky.

Pichu has no über gay gimmicky tactic.