The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Eggm]

Pocky, please tell me m2 shoudln't be there? If taj traveled more he certainly would be lol.

[Emblem Lord]

One person isn't enough. They have to discover new tactics and evolve the characters meta.

Is Taj doing that? Seems to me like he just abuses the few good things M2 has.

[Eggm]

Actually he is doing that, I've never seen anyone else do the kidna crazy movement he does with moonwalking outta Wd's. He also does the sweet spotted teleprots to the edge to instant forward b's. He also does parallel teleports which cancel the lag afterwards, he does tons of stuff man lol, his m2 is increidble you just don't know anything about m2 or have seen it in real life to truly appreciate just how amazing it is.

[Problem2]

Top Tier:
Fox
Peach
Falco
Marth
Sheik

High Tier:
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Mario

Low Tier:
Luigi
Link
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Mewtwo
Kirby

I'm going to be a little bold and show off my views of the tier list, though there is probably a reason why I am not allowed to help make the official one.

[slikvik]

One person isn't enough. They have to discover new tactics and evolve the characters meta.

Is Taj doing that? Seems to me like he just abuses the few good things M2 has.

Taj rapes with m2. hes definitely evolving the characters metagame


I'm going to be a little bold and show off my views of the tier list, though there is probably a reason why I am not allowed to help make the official one.

well as long as you understand that

[Del Money]

Top Tier:
Fox
Peach
Falco
Marth
Sheik

High Tier:
Ice Climbers
Captain Falcon
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Mario

Low Tier:
Luigi
Link
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Pichu
Mewtwo
Kirby

I'm going to be a little bold and show off my views of the tier list, though there is probably a reason why I am not allowed to help make the official one.

i agree with most of it but im curious as to how peach is better than both falco and sheik

EDIT:
and marth

[ZoSo]

He also does the sweet spotted teleprots to the edge to instant forward b's.
Old.

He also does parallel teleports which cancel the lag afterwards
Old.

Taj is just a really exceptional player who happens to be extremely good with Mewtwo. I'm not saying he doesn't do new and interesting things, but Mewtwo as a character is still balls.

[Del Money]

Old.


Old.

Taj is just a really exceptional player who happens to be extremely good with Mewtwo. I'm not saying he doesn't do new and interesting things, but Mewtwo as a character is still balls.

agreed. taj just knows how to turn those balls into pure gold

[Emblem Lord]

Taj isn't doing anything new. Except maybe for the moonwalk stuff. But it's not enough to do new stuff either. You have to take your new techniques and develop new solid strats that yield great results.

Generally speaking when evolving the meta there are several key points you have to hit on.

New ways to approach that are safer, faster, better, more reliable and yield great results.

New combos that yield great damage or lead to death.

Better ways to apply pressure that still keep you safe.

Better ways to force a reaction and put you in a better position.

Discovering new applications of old moves or strats and reinventing those strats.

New ways to abuse moves.

More ways to take control of the match. (This is very important)


There is more, but those are the key points. Has Taj found new ways to do all that with M2 if there even are any? And can M2 do those things better then the people above him? That's another important thing to remember. It's great if a characters metagame has evolved, but is it enough that it makes that character better then the ones above him or did that character just close the gap somewhat?

[Del Money]

Taj isn't doing anything new. Except maybe for the moonwalk stuff. But it's not enough to do new stuff either. You have to take your new techniques and develop new solid strats that yield great results.

Generally speaking when evolving the meta there are several key points you have to hit on.

New ways to approach that are safer, faster, better, more reliable and yield great results.

New combos that yield great damage or lead to death.

Better ways to apply pressure that still keep you safe.

Better ways to force a reaction and put you in a better position.

Discovering new applications of old moves or strats and reinventing those strats.

New ways to abuse moves.

More ways to take control of the match. (This is very important)


There is more, but those are the key points. Has Taj found new ways to do all that with M2 if there even are any? And can M2 do those things better then the people above him? That's another important thing to remember. It's great if a characters metagame has evolved, but is it enough that it makes that character better then the ones above him or did that character just close the gap somewhat?

dont get me wrong. im not praising mewtwo...he still its the nutsack of the melee cast. im praising Taj's ability to incorporate player techniques into mewtwo to make his matches effective. his playing techniques are needed because mewtwo's character techniques and ability to execute are pretty piss-poor

[Emblem Lord]

My post was directed at Eggm and the community as a whole. >_>

[konoha107]

I think the point is anyone can rock with any character. My real life friend rocks with Samus, I rock with Marth now, someone I know who has had both of the games since they both came out that is a lot older than me rocks with Fox (or last I saw him he did, haven't seen him in a while). While it's true that due to glitches and other factors other characters can be better than others, I think we can all agree that anyone can own anyone with any character if they become good enough.

Also, I like the Tier list on the first page. That one's fine.

[Del Money]

I think the point is anyone can rock with any character. My real life friend rocks with Samus, I rock with Marth now, someone I know who has had both of the games since they both came out that is a lot older than me rocks with Fox (or last I saw him he did, haven't seen him in a while). While it's true that due to glitches and other factors other characters can be better than others, I think we can all agree that anyone can own anyone with any character if they become good enough.

Also, I like the Tier list on the first page. That one's fine.

true, some characters just arent as hard to learn to pwn others with and easier to pick up. but anyone can pick up anyone and be good. im trying to pickup bowser right now. for the most part the tier system just estimates your chance of success against another character

[pockyD]

I think the point is anyone can rock with any character. My real life friend rocks with Samus, I rock with Marth now, someone I know who has had both of the games since they both came out that is a lot older than me rocks with Fox (or last I saw him he did, haven't seen him in a while). While it's true that due to glitches and other factors other characters can be better than others, I think we can all agree that anyone can own anyone with any character if they become good enough.

Also, I like the Tier list on the first page. That one's fine.

that's just not true

i'd like to see a kirby rock any of the top players

[Del Money]

that's just not true

i'd like to see a kirby rock any of the top players

can you see a bowser rocking any top players?

[Brookman]

One person isn't enough. They have to discover new tactics and evolve the characters meta.

Is Taj doing that? Seems to me like he just abuses the few good things M2 has.

That's what m2k did with marth, except marth has more than a few good things to abuse. No one will ever do full jump fairs with fox, but why would anyone complain about fox players not doing full jump fairs? Mewtwo just can't go much farther than he is already at, if he can be improved at all. It's not that Taj isn't trying to improve his character, it's just that that's all he has got, and since Taj is the only innovative mewtwo player he can only think of so many tactics on his own.

Does Taj even play mewtwo in tourny? all I saw was his marth at pound, except in a few friendlies I watched.

[Emblem Lord]

M2K is doing alot to evolve Marth. He evolved Fox too, but then he went to Marth.

Maybe he thought that he had gone as far as any human could go with Fox so he went to Marth. And now he is even better.

Kinda makes you think about which character truly has more potential. >_>

lol.

[Brookman]

I think m2k was frustrated with his personal limitations in regard to fox. I also don't think that he did nearly as much for fox as he has done with marth. I think that because marth requires less effort he can be played more consistently than fox, which is what really attracted m2k to him, for the most part at least (not like marth is a terrible character compared to fox anyway).

[Emblem Lord]

I think they are about equal. And I think it was the appeal of attainable perfection that made M2K want to play Marth. Marth is technically easy to master and once you combine his amazing dash dancing with his range he becomes very safe and you can easily abuse his speed and power. With Fox it takes constant practice and you must be a technical god to even come close to bring out 1/10th of his true potential.

I think that perfect Marth and perfect Fox are equal just because of the fact that they could never hit each other and Fox can't spam lasers without running the risk that Marth gets a free grab to death combo. So the fight would never end.

But no human can be perfect. So you have to get as close as possilbe to the ideal. Marth right now is near-perfect having realized about 80% of his potential IMO . He is probably the closest that any character can come to perfection. Fox at best seems to only be at 50% of his perfection. That may be why more and more people are saying that Marth > Fox because in the current meta Marth is dominating and is the closest to perfection.

[F8AL]

can you see a bowser rocking any top players?

That's why we have Gimpyfish62. :)
I've saw some of his matches on YouTube and his Bowser is very good! :P

[Dark Sonic]

Gotta agree with Emblem Lord. I'd actually like to see that never ending battle between perfect Marth and perfect Fox.

[Del Money]

That's why we have Gimpyfish62. :)
I've saw some of his matches on YouTube and his Bowser is very good! :P

yeah i know, i was being sarcastic because someone stated that a kirby could never rock a top tier player. all it takes it creativity and innovation...like Taj and Gimpyfish for example. im a little saddened i havent seen any majorly impressively executed yoshi's yet

[56k]

im a little saddened i havent seen any majorly impressively executed yoshi's yet

Fumi. Please search for Fumi on youtube :)

Otherwise your life isn't complete

[Del Money]

Fumi. Please search for Fumi on youtube :)

Otherwise your life isn't complete

ok will do. the only real combo vid i saw for yoshi was "look at dem boots" or something like that and i wasnt all that impressed

[kenny10]

Fumi has a crazy Yoshi, though. But he is Japanese which is probably why Yoshi isn't higher up on the tier list. Here's a good video of Fumi.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bpTRwrBWf0c

[REDRAGON]

Tier:

Note: The characters all in the same section are in no real order cause its to hard to say, but i tried my best. Ex: I put Marth above Fox in one section, but its to close to call...

God tier:
Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco

Top tier:
Falcon
Peach
Ice climbers
Samus

Middle tier:
Jigglypuff
Doc
Ganon
Mario
Link

Low tier:
Dk
Luigi
Ness
Roy
Yoshi
Pikachu
Y. Link

Bottom tier:
G&W
Zelda
Mewtwo
Bowser
Pichu
Kirby

Looks about right! Anything wrong?

[mood4food77]

jiggs is way too high, so is mewtwo, ness, yoshi, link

[Nintendude1189]

I'd actually say that Mewtwo is too low, and other than that the bottom 3 tiers look pretty good.

[Sliq]

jiggs is way too high, so is mewtwo, ness, yoshi, link

I laugh at "jiggs is way too high."

Edit: I now have to assume you are not talking about the original tier list, in which case Jigglypuff may or may not be too high.

[Eggm]

Looks about right, but if any low tier deserves that mid tier spot it should be DK or m2.

[Del Money]

Looks about right, but if any low tier deserves that mid tier spot it should be DK or m2.

DK i agree with. mewtwo = please explain

EDIT: @Redragon

i would think jiggs would be in the same tier with samus

EDIT #2: yes Fumi is a dam good yoshi

[LeifusYourGod]

personally id switch zelda and ylink, but again, thats just off my personal play, but based off pros (who, lets face it, are a lot closer to meta-game than most of us) and their tourney results have compiled the list that was shown on the first post, so im going to have to say that that one is correct and the others and swayed by personal judgment or just lack of exposure. that's my opinion

-Leif (Cake)

[Del Money]

everything.

lol. you silly smash lord you

personally id switch zelda and ylink, but again, thats just off my personal play, but based off pros (who, lets face it, are a lot closer to meta-game than most of us) and their tourney results have compiled the list that was shown on the first post, so im going to have to say that that one is correct and the others and swayed by personal judgment or just lack of exposure. that's my opinion

-Leif (Cake)

maybe, but if the creators of melee didnt conspire with ken and mana to construct that list (which they didnt otherwise it wouldnt change every year), then i dont buy it without an explanation. especially when multiple people could have the same opinions. its not like Taj is coming in here saying mewtwo is top-tier or anything

[Jujumasta]

I don't know, but I would think that Luigi and Pikachu could be higher up.

[mood4food77]

why should jiggs be so high if fox, falco, sheik, marth, falcon, ganon, doc, link, y. link, and pika have the advantage on her?

[Del Money]

why should jiggs be so high if fox, falco, sheik, marth, falcon, ganon, doc, link, y. link, and pika have the advantage on her?

1. dont forget ICs
2. it might be because jiggs has the advantage over more characters than pika and the links

[mood4food77]

i meant, high on redragon's list, i put her under mario
she has the advantage against ICs, i think, she's hard to CT with them

[g-regulate]

the tier list is fine the way it is. g-reg has spoken. topic over

[Del Money]

i meant, high on redragon's list, i put her under mario
she has the advantage against ICs, i think, she's hard to CT with them

thats characters you listed as being advantageous over jiggs were either top-tier, high-tier, or projectile spammers so i figured ICs would have the advantage since projectile spamming is part of their meta-game. i didnt think jiggs could destroy nana and cause separation without falling victim to the ICs aerials. but actually i think jiggs might have better aerials so i dont know even know anymore

the tier list is fine the way it is. g-reg has spoken. topic over

whick one? redragons or the one in the first page, because no way falco and fox, respectively, are above marth and sheik, respectively

[slikvik]

the tier list is fine the way it is. g-reg has spoken. topic over

QFT. G-REGULATES