The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Falco&Victory]

Holy crap, triple post?
sorry for that

[CogSmooch]

Knowing where it is isn't weird, but why did you touch it? O_o

to devour the soul of Mr. Thomas Webb, of course.

[APImagine]

to devour the soul of Mr. Thomas Webb, of course.

Haha. "Only from touching the dead do I truly feel alive."

[StripesOrBars]

LOL, if you guys think because 1 Shiek player has been doing better than all the other Falcos in the country, then ICs, Jiggz and Luigi need to be moved way up too.

I swear to God, people can't read.

[56k]

Shiek does better in tournies.

Happy?

[Pat/Pro]

LOL, if you guys think because 1 Shiek player has been doing better than all the other Falcos in the country, then ICs, Jiggz and Luigi need to be moved way up too.

I swear to God, people can't read.

2 shiek players have

[Brookman]

KDJ plays fox, except against m2k's marth.

[brawlpro]

hells right...he uses sheik against marf's, but eryone knew that already lolz!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cort]

Hypothetical tourny results

1. Drephen
2. Notable Falco
3. Notable Falco
4. Notable Falco
5. Notable Falco
5. Notable Falco
7. Notable Falco
7. Notable Falco
9. Notable Falco
9. Notable Falco
9. Notable Falco
9. Notable Falco
13. Notable Falco
13. Notable Falco
13. Notable Falco
13. Notable Falco

...Falco is clearly better than Sheik.

[spike9407]

Shiek over Falco

[Eggm]

Based on Tourney which it is

Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Peach

Get over it.

[mog87]

No one character wins a tournament usually... More likely its a combination of Fox and someone. Fox/Falco , Fox/Sheik, Fox/Marth.

[Emblem Lord]

Marth and Fox have soloed tournies.

Pretty sure of that.

Marth and Fox for God tier

[x4FoSho4x]

Based on Tourney which it is

Marth
Fox
Sheik
Falco
Peach

Get over it.

Thats my list too. I believe its pretty accurate.

Marth and Fox have soloed tournies.

Pretty sure of that.

Marth and Fox for God tier

QFT.

[mog87]

Character Solo wins

Possibly Mlg Nyc opener -Falco
Possibly Mlg Anaheim and Dallas?Evo East?- Marth
Pound 2 -Ice Climbers

And sheiks won like 2 solo tournies since like what them old rechiperis videos? Anywho feel free to correct errors and fill in omissions.

[HyugaRicdeau]

If people are going to say "IT'S BASED ON TOURNEY RESULTS!!!" then unless they also give a well-defined framework for interpreting those results, then their opinion of the tiers is just as worthless as they'd have you believe that "metagame based" tier lists are.

People who think that the tier list should be solely based on tourneys often say that their view makes more sense because it is more based on "fact" and actual events. But, you can still cherry-pick tourney results to support almost any reasonable tier list claim, is the point I'm trying to make.

SUMMARY: Quoting 3 or 4 tourney results and then going "OBVIOUSLY TOP TIER IS X, Y, Z" is without merit.

Personally, I always conceived of a tier list as being more of a "tourney viability" list (I suppose this is closer to the 2nd list on the 3S wiki), which is based on both metagame and tourney results. That is to say, a good matchup vs Fox is worth a lot more than a good (or even dominating) matchup vs Kirby.

[everlasting yayuhzz]

The list is pretty much accurate as-is. Falco is too good to go down any.

[MeleeUltimate]

If I was doing a accurate tier list, this is the logical way I would do it:
go to vs mode,
pic computer character match ups (both level 9),stock, best out of 3 and let them have it out in a fair & balanced stage like Final Destination see who wins, the character who wins goes above the character who doesn't in the list.

It would be soooooooooooo loooooooong though ( which is why I haven't bothered) , you would need to do it sooo many times and keep a record of who one against who and computer characters can do random stuff which could influence the results.

I think a tier list based on how characters do in tourneys makes sense though, on the other hand experience comes into it. SOOOO......:ohwell:

[TheManaLord]

That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Ignatius]

Yeah, if you did that you could make a computer matchup chart like Phannas.

[KevinM]

If I was doing a accurate tier list, this is the logical way I would do it:
go to vs mode,
pic computer character match ups (both level 9),stock, best out of 3 and let them have it out in a fair & balanced stage like Final Destination see who wins, the character who wins goes above the character who doesn't in the list.

It would be soooooooooooo loooooooong though ( which is why I haven't bothered) , you would need to do it sooo many times and keep a record of who one against who and computer characters can do random stuff which could influence the results.

I think a tier list based on how characters do in tourneys makes sense though, on the other hand experience comes into it. SOOOO......:ohwell:

Okkkk

1. Don't post again.
2. Srsly
3. You're really dumb
4. Don't post again
5. ????
6. Profit

[APImagine]

Rock-paper-scissors, dudes.

Or... rock-rock-paper-scissors, if you include Falco.

[Brookman]

If people are going to say "IT'S BASED ON TOURNEY RESULTS!!!" then unless they also give a well-defined framework for interpreting those results, then their opinion of the tiers is just as worthless as they'd have you believe that "metagame based" tier lists are.

People who think that the tier list should be solely based on tourneys often say that their view makes more sense because it is more based on "fact" and actual events. But, you can still cherry-pick tourney results to support almost any reasonable tier list claim, is the point I'm trying to make.

SUMMARY: Quoting 3 or 4 tourney results and then going "OBVIOUSLY TOP TIER IS X, Y, Z" is without merit.

Personally, I always conceived of a tier list as being more of a "tourney viability" list (I suppose this is closer to the 2nd list on the 3S wiki), which is based on both metagame and tourney results. That is to say, a good matchup vs Fox is worth a lot more than a good (or even dominating) matchup vs Kirby.

I think you're taking the discussion a bit TOO seriously. We don't decide the tier list, we just come here to banter about it, and we don't really need a 'well-defined framework' to just discuss. I don't really think anyone claimed that their opinions on the tier list had any merit to begin with, and no one said that 'meta game based' tier lists were worthless either.

Again, I've never seen anyone say that tournament based tier lists were based more on facts, or that they make more sense than the alternatives. Also, again, WE, in THIS discussion, do not make the tier lists, and the things we discuss really don't matter at all, so even if WE cherry pick results to support our positions it doesn't particularly matter.

siting three or four of the most recent tournaments obviously is without merit, cause that doesn't reflect what's currently happening in the community at all. As far as your preference goes, I do believe that's how our tier lists had been ordered anyway. The last time the tier list was being updated PC/KDJ/M2K were dominating everyone and each other with fox/falco, which is why we have those two characters on top, etc etc etc.

[trademark0013]

If I was doing a accurate tier list, this is the logical way I would do it:
go to vs mode,
pic computer character match ups (both level 9),stock, best out of 3 and let them have it out in a fair & balanced stage like Final Destination see who wins, the character who wins goes above the character who doesn't in the list.

It would be soooooooooooo loooooooong though ( which is why I haven't bothered) , you would need to do it sooo many times and keep a record of who one against who and computer characters can do random stuff which could influence the results.

I think a tier list based on how characters do in tourneys makes sense though, on the other hand experience comes into it. SOOOO......:ohwell:

this would mean falco, sheik and luigi are bototm tier

[Brookman]

this would mean falco, sheik and luigi are bototm tier

Oh, you've tested?

[Cort]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. We could make a perfectly unbiased and empirical tier list using that guys idea.

[Oskurito]

lol that post back there was the dumbest I've ever seen

[trademark0013]

Oh, you've tested?

no, i had my friends to it for me. falco doesnt pillar or shl, zelda doesnt transform into sheik, and luigi refuses to use up b to recover

[Brookman]

Falco DOESN'T NEED TO PILLAR OR SHL, they're computers, they suck. Zelda/Sheik would be treated as one character, just as nintendo intended (zelda transforms to sheik as a cpu), and luigi misfires so frequently I see him die from it more often than not.

[Oskurito]

Why you discuss something that is not worth it?

[brawlpro]

falco sux without pillar and shl...shl reminds me of mathos ftw!!!

school post oskurito, i'm in my tech class, i will talk to you at like 5pm;)

[Cort]

Why you discuss something that is not worth it?

I thought that's what this topic is all about.

[brawlpro]

wait the topic is about falco???

[Falco&Victory]

Ok, sheik is fine where she is. Ka Master is the best Washington player, so should Luigi be top tier based off 1 tourny? Unless you attend or watch several tournies and matches, then don't try to argue about tiers. Drephen got beat by dope about 10 times before he learned how to counter Falco. That's all he does to beat them, he counters them.

[Brookman]

I need to see some drephen vs. good falco's

Too bad I'd have to pay money to see drephen in action at OC3. stupid thieves. You can't put a price on smash, it's like VoD, but worse, cause it's coming from inside the community.

[brawlpro]

didn't he fight mathos, and p.c....

[mog87]

It really is rock paper scissors for all intents and purposes, except not as concrete. Blah Blah goes Marth runs into a good falcon or sheik...---> goes fox or falco and so forth. That is how it usually happens happens rather than one juggernaut character running through everyone.

[CogSmooch]

/tummy is full of Mr. Thomas Webb's soul.

[trademark0013]

I thought that's what this topic is all about.

pretty much

[MeleeUltimate]

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