View Full Version : The 2006-2008 Tier list
COMMOFDOOM
09-05-2006, 01:27 AM
the whole point of lasering is to immobolize and manipulate your opponent. and get some bonus damage.
sheik ducking = falcos goal achieved.... especially since she can't duck under it.
stripesandbars = fgt
JBM falcon08
09-05-2006, 01:28 AM
I'm gonna have to go on Doodahs side, you can say you know the difference between a pro and a noob, but you really can't till you've played at at tourney or against one, so thus your arguement mcc, is worthless because you can't put in personal experience into your arguement, and even you said before that you haven't gone to a tourney and still argue that you know what a pro is.
ok i'll admit i don't know what a pro is then. (what is a pro?) but you can't say that i was wrong about the SHL
Marth05
09-05-2006, 01:32 AM
a pro is someone who is extremely good at smash
really? that's the definition?
Marth05
09-05-2006, 01:41 AM
yup in my words, and if you want the exact definition of a freakin pro go use www.google.com or some dictionary crap
so the definition is actually an opinion
Marth05
09-05-2006, 01:47 AM
and your point?....
no point. just pointing something out
Pneuma
09-05-2006, 01:57 AM
A professional is someone who does something for money.
Look at the tournament winnings to decide pros.
I hate repeating myself.
JBM falcon08
09-05-2006, 02:01 AM
A pro is someone who has great enough experience who has a good understanding of the game and can put it to good use, an example would be M2K, because he is very knowledgeable about the game, and very good, and i'm not bad mouthing AZ here, but he would be an example of a person who knows alot about the game, but can't put it to good use. Anyone can sit here and waste their life away learning about matchups and **** like that, but you will never be able to be good at this game if you don't get experience from playing other people across the country or world, and gaining that level of reputation being known as a "pro".
my opinion at least.
BTW, we should get a real tier list, not based on tournies, but on real ability of characters being the best. and if marth is the best, then wouldn't sheik be above him no matter what since she is very favorable in the matchup? and more people give marth a hard time than sheik? but fox would be above marth due to his ability to uair combo marth so easily, but because marth is good on every neutral stage and has an advantage on all of them except PKS,marth should remain above fox. falco would remain below marth and sheik because it is pretty much an even matchup for both sheik and marth against falco. Peach could possibly be above falco, because of her slight advantage against ffers like falco and fox, especially falco due to his bad recovery, which mean that peach should be above falco, but peach wouldn't be above fox due to his ability just like against marth to uair combo very easily and drillshine+wavedash+Usmash.
As far as i know the list should be like this...
Sheik
Marth
Fox
Peach
Falco
CodeBlue
09-05-2006, 02:20 AM
Since Fox seems to have more potential than Sheik, I would actually think it should look like this:
Fox
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falco
JBM falcon08
09-05-2006, 02:34 AM
Fox doesn't have the potential though, in every neutral stage there is, marth has the upperhand except for PKS, this doesn't give fox enough to be above marth or sheik, and as far as i know M2K said that Fox vs sheik is no longer a counter, and is an even matchup as far as i know, thats what i've been told.
BTW, we should get a real tier list, not based on tournies, but on real ability of characters being the best.
Agreed.
I believe the MvC2 community has multiple tier lists based on different criteria. I don't see any reason why we can't do the same thing.
Aiser
09-05-2006, 03:20 AM
Actually I'm pretty sure Fox has the advantage against Marth in most stages except FD then its even. Don't say its a counter because of CG its hard to grab a 'good' Fox.
Umbreon
09-05-2006, 08:46 AM
Since Fox seems to have more potential than Sheik
what's potential worth?
NJ'zFinest
09-05-2006, 08:54 AM
it's not that hard to adjust the SHL.
never said it was, it's just annoying
i doubt that pro falcos would SHL the same height when they see a shiek still and crouching. they're not lazy you know. and by the way, it sound really lame when the only argument you have toward me is "you have never been to a tourney"
Me saying "you have never been to a tourney" is a good enough statement. Right there you're saying what a pro Falco would do...however you never played or met one since you never been to a tourney......you don't know what good Falcos and Sheiks do.
so you're saying that just because stripes has experience, that means that he is right that falcos won't bother to SHL a crouching shiek?
He has experience playing Falcos...he dunked vs Falcos and it worked....that hard to understand?
Ummm as for the argument of what is/isn't a pro, it has always been my understanding that only the people on the smash panel power rankings were considered "pro"
Having only been to one tourney with a good player, I know that doodah and nj'z are completly right... Watching videos was one thing, but seeing it in action was crazy....
CodeBlue
09-05-2006, 10:35 AM
what's potential worth?
In the experience I have against Sheiks and Foxes, which I admit is far more against Foxes than Sheiks, I think the potential of the particular character has a lot of worth. The many Foxes I've played have all had different styles as well as different approaches to almost everything they do, while all of the good Sheiks I have played were played basically playing the same way.
Umbreon
09-05-2006, 10:41 AM
style and potential aren't the same thing. What a character can do and what a player chooses to use have little in common.
never said it was, it's just annoying
Me saying "you have never been to a tourney" is a good enough statement. Right there you're saying what a pro Falco would do...however you never played or met one since you never been to a tourney......you don't know what good Falcos and Sheiks do.
He has experience playing Falcos...he dunked vs Falcos and it worked....that hard to understand?
fine. maybe "good" falcos would pass up free damage, but i don't need to go to a tourney to know that the smart thing to do is adjust the SHL (which for me, isn't annoying to do at all)
BTW, we should get a real tier list, not based on tournies, but on real ability of characters being the best.
Thats so true! Well not a 'real' tier list but maybe a seperate one as this is a real one anyways. I mean, a tier list based on tournaments is cool but me personally who has never ever been to a tournament because of my area, and for those of us who have never been to a tournament, a tier list that is only based on tournaments isnt too useful. Lol! A tier list based on the actual ability of the charcters would definitly be useful for everyone though.
NJ'zFinest
09-05-2006, 11:34 AM
fine. maybe "good" falcos would pass up free damage, but i don't need to go to a tourney to know that the smart thing to do is adjust the SHL
Ummm...ok, but you need to go to a tourney to know what the common thing a Falco would do.
(which for me, isn't annoying to do at all)
That's because you never faced a good Sheik player...another reason why you should go to a tourney.
pikaville
09-05-2006, 11:45 AM
I think Marth should be higher.I know his game hasn't really evolved at all but Ken,Husband even EK and Kizzu are all great Marth players with different styles.
Pika should be higher too;)
NJ your sig is f*****g brilliant.
PerfectSickness
09-05-2006, 11:58 AM
Okay let me put an end to this once and for all
three ranks of majorly used characters
Fox, Falco, Sheik, Peach ( These because Peach does well against everyone and sheik is even with fox so one cant be higher. Peach rapes alot of falcos and fox's so she has to be there, Falco and fox because obviously are the two who do best against all other characters)
Marth, Ganon, (Marth and ganon because both do well against most characters depending on the stage.)
Doc, Mario, Samus
This is based more on potential than actual stats.
mood4food77
09-05-2006, 12:05 PM
honostly i think they should put 2 more tiers, like seperate mid tier, make sheik, marth and peach upper tier and make falcon, ICs, and samus high tier, keep doc down to ganon middle tier, low tier should be link to dk, lower tier should be y. link to ness and bottom tier should be bowser to mewtwo, it just makes more sense because of the big gaps between the characters
JBM falcon08
09-05-2006, 12:57 PM
Does sheik even have any counters against her or matches that are more favorable against her? Should Sheik really be looked at as a counter or more favorable against marth at a pro level, considering that most pro Marths know how to combo her just as well as she does to marth?
basically, Marth or Sheik are the best in the game attribute wise, fox following them both. fox shouldn't be ahead of marth because overall in every level, marth has either an even matchup or an upperhand (FD), and he has a greater range and better hit knockback with his tipper than any attack fox has.
Peach should be above falco for reasons being that she has...
1. a much better recovery
2. lives much longer than falco does in almost any situation.
3. she dominates ffers with her dsmash, its almost a guaranteed 24% if its landed and its a finishing blow on the edge or if at higher percents if it isn't DI'd or teched.
Falco has lasers, but its not as easy for falco to combo and put peach into pillar combos because of her amazing floatyness as it is for peach to chainthrow, destroy his recovery with turnips, and to destroy him with the dsmash.
StripesOrBars
09-05-2006, 02:11 PM
Peach should be above falco for reasons being that she has...
1. a much better recovery
2. lives much longer than falco does in almost any situation.
3. she dominates ffers with her dsmash, its almost a guaranteed 24% if its landed and its a finishing blow on the edge or if at higher percents if it isn't DI'd or teched.
Falco has lasers, but its not as easy for falco to combo and put peach into pillar combos because of her amazing floatyness as it is for peach to chainthrow, destroy his recovery with turnips, and to destroy him with the dsmash.
Unless it's FD, then Falco still combos Peach to death with platforms.
And most Falco players will just switch to Fox if thier Falco sux. Unless they suck and can't use Fox.
Mud Buddha
09-05-2006, 03:25 PM
A pro is someone who has great enough experience who has a good understanding of the game and can put it to good use, an example would be M2K, because he is very knowledgeable about the game, and very good, and i'm not bad mouthing AZ here, but he would be an example of a person who knows alot about the game, but can't put it to good use. Anyone can sit here and waste their life away learning about matchups and **** like that, but you will never be able to be good at this game if you don't get experience from playing other people across the country or world, and gaining that level of reputation being known as a "pro".
Nope. You're wrong. A pro, is someone who is paid to do something. That's the ONLY definition. They don't have to be any good at what they are "pro" at. They just have to be paid to do it.
Sighrax
09-05-2006, 03:34 PM
Ganon should be higher on the tier list, perhaps 3 spots, and IC's down a few. There are few IC players around, so if it's true that the tier list is based on tournament wins, I don't think IC's would be up so high. Only because they have so much potential (ie the first tier list) are they so high. Exceptional Ganon players (Thomas Tipman, Bushman, Eddie) are proving that Ganon is worthy of a higher spot.
Marth05
09-05-2006, 03:41 PM
Nope. You're wrong. A pro, is someone who is paid to do something. That's the ONLY definition. They don't have to be any good at what they are "pro" at. They just have to be paid to do it.
cool than that means i'm a pro, yay
JBM falcon08
09-05-2006, 03:49 PM
Nope. You're wrong. A pro, is someone who is paid to do something. That's the ONLY definition. They don't have to be any good at what they are "pro" at. They just have to be paid to do it.
haha, is that so? then i'm a pro at smash and stocking shelves at my grocery store?
Nope, sorry but your the one wrong here, being a pro is exactly what i said, and a pro is someone who is top 16 on mlg point standings.
StripesOrBars
09-05-2006, 04:09 PM
Nope, sorry but your the one wrong here, being a pro is exactly what i said, and a pro is someone who is top 16 on mlg point standings.
Tru true.
ClickForth
09-05-2006, 04:28 PM
Nope. You're wrong. A pro, is someone who is paid to do something. That's the ONLY definition. They don't have to be any good at what they are "pro" at. They just have to be paid to do it.
What? That is so incredible wrong. A professional is someone who is skilled at what they do, let's even check ol' Merriam-Webster.
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.
Sure, one can be a paid professional, or in certain situations it implies that, but definitely not when talking about a videogame player.
StripesOrBars
09-05-2006, 04:42 PM
What? That is so incredible wrong. A professional is someone who is skilled at what they do, let's even check ol' Merriam-Webster.
1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.
Sure, one can be a paid professional, or in certain situations it implies that, but definitely not when talking about a videogame player.
Nope YOU"RE wrong.
The definition of a "Pro Smasher" is:
Someone who has AT LEAST the 16th highest MLG rank points.
Inferno_blaze
09-05-2006, 04:55 PM
You're not arguing over that, you're arguing over the definition of pro (proffesional) which is not that, a pro smasher doesn't have oto be ranked there, just someone who's paid to do it, does it as a job or has exceptional skill.
Marth05
09-05-2006, 05:25 PM
you're all wrong, screw this just gte a pro to post here himself and he/she will explain
BigRick
09-05-2006, 06:36 PM
You guys have gone way too off-topic, how about one of you starts a thread called ''what is a pro smasher?''
Back to topic now, I agree that the tier list would be better and more accurate if it was based on actual character attributes instead of the metagame. The main reason why is because the list loses a lot of its accuracy when it gets to middle tier and lower, since it becomes much harder to compare characters that see less action in tournaments.
Oh, I also suggest the addition of a new tier that would be called sumtin like ''Low tiers that don't suck that much'' tier. The chars that would fit there are basically the chars that dominate low tier tournaments and that see less play at normal tournies because of the presence of the broken chars. The bottom half of the tier list could then look like so:
Low tiers that don't suck that much:
Link
Luigi
DK
Roy
Low tier:
Young Link
Pika
Yoshi
Zelda
Bottom tier:
Game & Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mew2
Ummm...ok, but you need to go to a tourney to know what the common thing a Falco would do.
That's because you never faced a good Sheik player...another reason why you should go to a tourney.
sorry, but you post the dumbest things i've heard in a long while
first, the "common" thing a falco would do isn't always the smartest. again, which do you think is a better choice?
1. charging at a crouching shiek
2. adjust your SHL and get free damage
second, it doesn't matter if you're facong a good shiek player or not. the difficulty of the SHL stays the same
edit: Nope YOU"RE wrong.
The definition of a "Pro Smasher" is:
Someone who has AT LEAST the 16th highest MLG rank points.
so i was right about my definiton of a pro...
NJ'zFinest
09-05-2006, 06:45 PM
sorry, but you post the dumbest things i've heard in a long while
LOL, that's what I think of your posts, I mean, they're based on nothing...you have 0 exp
first, the "common" thing a falco would do isn't always the smartest. again, which do you think is a better choice?
1. charging at a crouching shiek
2. adjust your SHL and get free damage
um...ok, and your point? Falcos still don't adjust it, that's all that matters. Results are the only things that matter, not possiblities.
second, it doesn't matter if you're facong a good shiek player or not. the difficulty of the SHL stays the same
I WASNT TALKIN ABOUT IT'S DIFFICULTY! You said it wasn't annoying to adjust and keep spaming, therefore, the Sheiks you play must not be that good if they let you do that.
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