DEBATE: Falco has the advantage in tournaments over Fox!

[krazyzyko]

I came to this conclusion about the spaceanimals and the Tournament rules.

Yes, Fox is at the top of the tier list and top of the top tiers also.
By this post I don't mean that Falco>Fox, but I'm going to post why I think that Falco has the advantage over Fox in tournaments.

In the MLG rules, the stages that appear on the Random pick are: Stadium, FD, BF, FoD, Cruise, Yoshi's story Dream Land.

-Notice that Fox's shine combos are horizontal.
So he will handle Matchups like Peach, Link, CF, Ganon, Zelda, Shiek, Bowser, etc. in Flat stages like Final Destination.

-Now Falco in the other hand his combos are more vertical. So it doesn't matter which stage of the Random pick he'll be able to pillar or do other shine combos with ease with or without platforms.

So in Match-ups like Marth and Samus for example, Fox will have the disadvantage, and will have to lose the first match to gain the advantage on the counter pick stages like Onett, Corneria, Greens but still if he wins that Match then he'll be counter picked, lets say Battle Field, he's screwed.
But Falco has more range, SHL that stun and will have a better chance of beating Marth, Samus than Fox.

EDIT:I just found out that Corneria, Onett and Yoshi's Island are banned.(less counterpicks for fox)

So in conclusion, Fox has a harder time winning in tournaments than Falco.

Do you agree?/disagree?

Debate....

[Shade_]

Ehhh, I think taht fox has it just as fine in terms of vertical comboes to, up grab to anything, and there its just as bad.

[Abuani]

Overall in tournements? I wouldnt say that Falco has the advantage, Fox is such a versatile character that in a Double blind pic Im never nervous who my oppenent is going to play as, With Falco it seems there is a bit more danger of playing against a Marth (I cant stand Marth as Falco, So that personal opinion may sway my judgement) or another character who Falco may have a rough time against. I also think that Fox's high versatility and abilty to kill at such low percentages with a shine give him that awesome edge in any fight.

I think Falco and Fox both have an equal chance to win a tournement, Though I do think that in a Falco vs Fox battle Falco holds the advantage there.

I dont claim to be right, this is just my opinion, and Im open to what other people think.

[leafgreen386]

OK, I'm not claiming to be right on any of this, but these are what I think on the matchups.

Pretty much, unless Fox can CT Falco, Falco has the advantage in this matchup, with SHLs and shine combos, and then stage can determine who gets easier kills.

On Yoshi's Story, a stage I personally hate more than Battlefield, Fox cannot sweetspot the edge coming from below (if you can, it's extremely risky, anyway, because I've tried) and the ceiling is fairly high, turning an already bad posistion to get vert kills even worse. The platforms make it harder for Fox to CT Falco, while Falco can take advantage of the easy horizontal kills and platforms for his combos.

Battlefield has the same situation, while being slightly less biased toward Fox, with more generous side and bottom boundaries and to my knowledge a shorter ceiling boundary.

You can't even CT Falco on FoD, while the stage is fairly large allowing for SHL spam.

Dream Land is awful for vert kills. The platforms are a bit more spacious, though, so I'm not sure if Fox can CT Falco to death here. Maybe. I haven't seen it done nor tried myself. Big stage, too, so SHL spam is a pain.

FD is like the only stage I've heard people agree time after time that Falco doesn't have the advantage over Fox, whether it's even or in Fox's favor seems to be disputed. Either way Fox can CT Falco to death, and Falco can spam SHL.

On Pokemon Stadium Fox can CT Falco, but not everywhere, unfortunently. Depending on the transformation SHL spamming can be less effective than usual, though.

Rainbow Cruise... uh... I would assume either one of them could kill the other with just a little "stage" guarding as the stage moves on. I dunno a whole lot about the matchup on this stage.

Overall, Falco will have the advantage in a random pick in this matchup imo. Of course, I'm not the best Fox around, so my word isn't that trustworthy, at least compared to some of the people here.

Ah, misread the topic. This isn't about Fox vs. Falco - it's about overall performance. Oh well, I may as well put this anyway.

[McRustyJr]

imo the one with the advantage in tournaments is the better player

[ecstatic]

Wait, I thought Falco is better for H Kills, and Fox V kills.

[Excel_Zero]

In my opinion, both are around the same level. Falco is awesome on comboing, even better than Fox, but when it comes to mindgames and speed, Fox is the winner. I personally prefer Fox because he is faster, more agile and more fun to play with.

Now lets see the advantages:

Fox:
Faster
Agile
Has the Shinespike

Falco:
Has More Comboing Ability
Stunning Short Hop Blaster Approach
Has the Down Air Spike

With Falco your game is basically Short Hop Blastering through your opponent and then using pillaring combos (if fastfaller or neutral faller) or some other stuff.

With fox you have to improvise with SHL and mindgames to reach your enemy and combo him. Use your shine to land combos and some other stuff.

Well that's my opinion. Since Falco counters Fox, he can be the best choice between both. But a good Fox can stop any Falco, in my opinion.

[krazyzyko]

0FX-Falco's Dair (also Marth's) is a spike and can't be meteor canceled.

Leaf-green-It's about Fox and Falco in every match-up.

McRusty-If it was about the player then Marth will be top tier because of ken.

........later

[NJ'zFinest]

lol, Falco does>Fox. He's the best character

Falco has the advantage over Fox in tourneys? old news

Only reason Fox is on top is because Fox players do better in tourney results, that's "basically" it. I mean, the people who play Fox are generally the better players skillwise.

[XLR8]

If the Falco can do shine combos from 0%-60% (or death, whatever happens), then he has an invaluable tool for him in this match. But after seeing Azen beat Chu's Climbers (with Captain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) at WTFO (wtf Orlando), I would say that anything can happen.

[Shade_]

Fox can kill, from 0 % to death. So its still even. Though I think battle field, yoshi's island, kirbys dream land, and fountan of dreams, so similar they are practically the same level, EVEN IF they haev different area limits, the stage setup is the same, if you good on one your good on them all.

Probably alot of it is the player.

[audreyh]

why is your argument "fox's shine combos are horizontal" and falco's are veritcal. k, falco gets most his damage from vertical shine combos but i think foxes get a majority of damage from vertical combos as well, not horizontal shine combos.

[Silent Wolf]

Fox can get a sure 0-death on falco.
falco cannot do the same to a good fox player, or just one whos used to playing a very shine comboey falco.
fox can smash DI out of shine combos no matter what the situation, unless fox is at low damage and just stagger from the dair. but even then you have a chance. once one of them is off the ledge, either character can edgeguard him pretty easily. waiting for the firefox/bird to come up over the stage so neither can tech is too good. ^^
these are just some of the ways to enforce my point stronger, these are all facts but fox having the advantage against falco overall isnt, thats just my, and many other ppl's opinions. :)

[PraKirJaq]

I thought Falco's combos can end up screwing up Fox.
When I think of Falco, I think combos.
When I think of Fox, I think kill fast with shine or fast later with Up Smash/Uair.
Many combos are IMO easiest against Fox.
Usually tho, I htink Fox vs Falcos are as fun as Fox dittos.

[Silent Wolf]

But then again, falco has lasers!
forgot about that somehow, lol.

[Abuani]

"But then again, falco has lasers!"

Curse your magic stun gun

[Umbreon]

the match is even

fox players are just bitter about falco cause they're not used to having even matches.

fox beating falco makes falco look bad much in the same way that sheik beating fox makes fox look bad. fox goes even with both sheik and falco though.

If the Falco can do shine combos from 0%-60% (or death, whatever happens), then he has an invaluable tool for him in this match. But after seeing Azen beat Chu's Climbers (with Captain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) at WTFO (wtf Orlando), I would say that anything can happen.

falcon vs ICs is a fair match, and they know each other's style. It was bound to be a good set, and it was, 3-2

[Silent Wolf]

the match is even

fox players are just bitter about falco cause they're not used to having even matches.

fox beating falco makes falco look bad much in the same way that sheik beating fox makes fox look bad. fox goes even with both sheik and falco though.



falcon vs ICs is a fair match, and they know each other's style. It was bound to be a good set, and it was, 3-2

according to skypal, fox counters shiek. and it seems like thats true.

[Magus420]

EDIT:I just found out that Corneria, Onett and Yoshi's Island are bannedWhen did they start banning Corneria?

[Zephy]

I think they are like 50 / 50... They both has weaknesses against each other and good things.
No matter what the stage is.

[NJ'zFinest]

according to skypal, fox counters shiek. and it seems like thats true.
lol, it's not. Counter matches = one sided. Sheik can actually do stuff on Fox :)
You can at least say Fox has the advantage >.>
(I personally think it's even)

[Sytar]

falcon vs ICs is a fair match, and they know each other's style. It was bound to be a good set, and it was, 3-2
Way to totally negate your credibility, Mow. Falcon vs IC's are one of the most brutal counters in the game. They can chain him zero to death with ease. Look at Silent Spectre vs Chu matches. SS gets raped completely because of chain throws.

[Magus420]

No. Falcon vs ICs is by no means one of the worst matcups in the game.

[NJ'zFinest]

Azen took it to Chu CFalcon vs IC >_>

[REDfox1]

fox has speed serious juggles and most importantly the shine so falco can keep his retarded
BB gun... i disagree that fox is at a disadvantage cuz a good fox can mind game his way out of any characters crap including falcos lasers...And im starting to roll around falcos lasers and surprisingly its working for me

[Silent Wolf]

No. Falcon vs ICs is by no means one of the worst matcups in the game.

yea, im sure shiek bowser is a waay more brutal counter, lol.

[Umbreon]

Way to totally negate your credibility, Mow. Falcon vs IC's are one of the most brutal counters in the game. They can chain him zero to death with ease. Look at Silent Spectre vs Chu matches. SS gets raped completely because of chain throws.

learn what the hell you're talking about before you say something stupid. It burns my eyes.

[Arj]

Way to totally negate your credibility, Mow. Falcon vs IC's are one of the most brutal counters in the game. They can chain him zero to death with ease. Look at Silent Spectre vs Chu matches. SS gets raped completely because of chain throws.

What are you talking about? Didn't PC Chris or someone counterpick Falcon for Chu's ice climbers and beat him? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure this happened.

[NJ'zFinest]

What are you talking about? Didn't PC Chris or someone counterpick Falcon for Chu's ice climbers and beat him? Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm almost sure this happened.
It was Azen...and I said it in one of the previous posts :psycho:

[Cort]

At very high tournament play, good Foxes have generally the advantage over Falcos on all stages except Yoshi's Island/Battlefield, where Falco dominates Fox. If you don't believe me play PC's Falco on those stages, or ask him himself heh.

[NJ'zFinest]

Cort, Fox>Falco on FD?

[InfernoOmni]

Cort, Fox>Falco on FD?

Greater.

Falco has advantages over Fox just as Fox has advantages over Falco.

I believe Fox's advantages weigh more.

[NJ'zFinest]

lol all Fox really has on Falco on FD is grab combos....Falco has lovely space for shine combos + SHL
I mean, Fox and Falco both do well on Marth and Peach...they mainly just have grab combos on them on FD >_>

[Umbreon]

I love fox vs falco on FD

as fox

[Cort]

On FD Fox still has a slight advantage over Falco. This is all according to PC, though.

Mindgames?

[Silent Wolf]

plus fox can smash DI the dair to get out of those shine combos easy.

[krazyzyko]

PEOPLE! PEOPLE PLEASE!!!!1

STOP!!!!!!!

This is NOT a Fox vs. Falco topic!!!!!!!!

THIS IS ABOUT WHICH CHARACTER DOES BETTER AGAINST EVERY CHARACTER IN THE TOURNAMENTS ACCORDING TO THE MLG RULES!!!!!! (most of the stages of the Random Pick gives Falco more advantage vs. all the characters than Fox) because of his shine combos and platforms.

So don´t go saying: ¨Falco can waveshine and Pillar Fox¨ or ¨Fox can shinespike and CT Falco¨

This is not what the topic´s about. Most of you guys are simply spamming.

........later

[Silent Wolf]

Oh, well then Fox mos def. He's top tier for a reason.

[Umbreon]

This is not what the topic´s about. Most of you guys are simply spamming.

........later

even if it was a fox vs falco topic they're spamming cause they're wrong

[InfernoOmni]

Fox does better than Falco against most characters for three small reasons.

1.) Shine
2.) Much, much better recovery.
3.) Manueveribility