who link counters and gets countered by.

[smashfan34]

I decided to make a list of counters. here it goes.
Sheik counters link
link counters Zelda.
link counters Bowser
Link counters pikachu
Non counters
Link vs fox= fox adv
Link vs falco= falco adv
Link vs marth= link small adv.
Link vs peach= link small adv.
link vs Captain falcon=link small adv.
Link vs samus= link small adv.
Link vs jigglypuff= link small adv.
link vs doctor mario= Even
link vs ganon= link small adv.
link vs mario=link small adv.
link vs Ic's=Even
link vs luigi=link huge adv.
Link vs link=Even
Link vs Roy= link small adv.
Link vs Dk= Link huge adv.
link vs ness= link medium adv.
link vs ylink=adv.
Link vs yoshi=small adv.
link vs kirby= link adv.
link vs G&W=Link huge adv.
link vs mew2=link huge adv.
link vs pichu=link huge adv.

[SLH]

I thought it was a question, looking at the title, but this is much better.

Only have two complaints. One being how the list is organized - It's kind of hard on the eyes. It would be better if you changed it to a numerical system, instead of "small advantage, big advantage, etc." Example: Link vs. Sheik - 8/2 Sheik Link vs Marth - 6/4 Link

The other being that Fox and Falco should be listed as Link counters.

Other than that, good job. +rep

[mkmelee]

There is no solid line between counter and advantage. Thus alot of players will tell you things like how Link has and advantage over Fox, or that Shiek isn't a Link counter. The stuff doesn't matter alot really. It's more of you practising your game to beat whatever character even if you have a hard time.

[Skler]

A few revisions...

Link vs CF can go either way (as can Link vs Marth, but Marth isn't as fast as CF). I'd say either even or a little bit in favor of CF.

Link vs luigi isn't a huge advantage, Luigi is a fast mofo who can combo the crap outta Link due to every attack hitting Link straight up and since Link is heavy and a semi-fast faller he just stays in the Luigi combo zone, and then the chops come. Granted, Link has an advantage but not huge (it doesn't help that Luigi can down B into rangs, cancel his down B with that rang and have 0 lag from it).

Link ruins Ness completely, not contest there (no offense to Ness). Link is pretty much just as fast, has better range most of the time (Ness fair > Link ariels, but thats about it) and has a great projectile game. Add that Link being able to combo Ness with and that easy to edgeguard (with projectiles) PK thunder and you get a matchup that can't be beat!

I'd say regular Mario is harder to fight then Doc due to increased range and combos into the F-smash against you + godly edgeguard. Doc is a little smaller so he has less range and a little more trouble getting at Link. Also, Doc's main finishers are worse against Link due to Link's recovery and weight + fallspeed (doc fist takes around 110% or more, horizontal kills are tougher because he can't go out as far as Mario can to edgeguard).

Link has a good matchup vs ICs (easy seperation + good range and kill moves = sad IC player).

Believe it or not, Pichu isn't AS huge of an advantage as you might think. Hes a small target, difficult to combo due to how light he is (at low %s he can be comboed, but once he hits 50 he goes too far), can't be KOed vertically that easily (on FD it takes around 90-100% if they DI correctly) due to his fall speed and he has a few high priority ariels with good speed, a good recovery and a strong edgeguard. Link is stronger and has kill moves, but Pichu is hard to get into a setup due to his speed and size. Really that matchup is annoying.

I dunno about Link countering Pika, but he does do well against Pika. Pichu has a better matchup against Link (sorry Pika you're just too big).

[smashfan34]

A few revisions...

Link vs CF can go either way (as can Link vs Marth, but Marth isn't as fast as CF). I'd say either even or a little bit in favor of CF.

Link vs luigi isn't a huge advantage, Luigi is a fast mofo who can combo the crap outta Link due to every attack hitting Link straight up and since Link is heavy and a semi-fast faller he just stays in the Luigi combo zone, and then the chops come. Granted, Link has an advantage but not huge (it doesn't help that Luigi can down B into rangs, cancel his down B with that rang and have 0 lag from it).

Link ruins Ness completely, not contest there (no offense to Ness). Link is pretty much just as fast, has better range most of the time (Ness fair > Link ariels, but thats about it) and has a great projectile game. Add that Link being able to combo Ness with and that easy to edgeguard (with projectiles) PK thunder and you get a matchup that can't be beat!

I'd say regular Mario is harder to fight then Doc due to increased range and combos into the F-smash against you + godly edgeguard. Doc is a little smaller so he has less range and a little more trouble getting at Link. Also, Doc's main finishers are worse against Link due to Link's recovery and weight + fallspeed (doc fist takes around 110% or more, horizontal kills are tougher because he can't go out as far as Mario can to edgeguard).

Link has a good matchup vs ICs (easy seperation + good range and kill moves = sad IC player).

Believe it or not, Pichu isn't AS huge of an advantage as you might think. Hes a small target, difficult to combo due to how light he is (at low %s he can be comboed, but once he hits 50 he goes too far), can't be KOed vertically that easily (on FD it takes around 90-100% if they DI correctly) due to his fall speed and he has a few high priority ariels with good speed, a good recovery and a strong edgeguard. Link is stronger and has kill moves, but Pichu is hard to get into a setup due to his speed and size. Really that matchup is annoying.

I dunno about Link countering Pika, but he does do well against Pika. Pichu has a better matchup against Link (sorry Pika you're just too big).

You've brought up some good points. I will update as soon as I can. Ill change it to numbers to like 6/4 etc.

[Harbinger]

Personally I enjoy Link vs Falcon. Spacing yourself with Link and shield stabbing with eventually down smashes leads to many great combos. Ledge gaurding him is fairly easy too.

[Buzz]

Link vs Captain Falcon = disadvantage
Link simply cannot combo like CFalcon can. Falcon moves way too quickly. Once a combo has begun, Link is in big trouble unless he is already holding a bomb. I very rarely see this match favor Link if the Falcon player is at all proficient. :(

Link vs Samus = big advantage
Link almost perfectly cancels out Samus' advantages (Young Link has a slight edge with his steeper angle boomerang throws). Link can dish out projectiles faster than Samus can (regardless of her missile-cancel craze). As a result, Link neutralizes Samus' long-range barrage and follows threw with inpenetrable sword attacks.

Link vs YLink = small advantage or even
I have fought this fight probably a thousand times. Young Link's speed more than makes up Link's slight range advantage. The biggest mistake people make when doing this comparison is applying Link's combos to Young Link. The fact of the matter is Young Link has totally different combos and KO's opponents horizontally instead of vertically. Young Link has a better wavedash and can edge-guard quite well.

[Cyphus]

wow...judging by your list, link must be high tier!!

oh wait- he's NOT!
You can't make link good against 85% the characters..it doesn't make sense, lol.
link vs marth/peach is pretty even, it depends moreso on the level if link can play keep away or not. On most levels though, link cannot..so overall marth/peach, imo, have a small advantage.
capt. has the advantage, imo. Link has great tools against him, but he doesn't get to use them as often as he needs because of the huge speed disadvantage.


i'm only going to object on the matchups i'd prefer to say i know better than the rest.
Link > doc.
link has an advantage over doc, imo. link's priority(sex and jab, especially) keep him too ranged to be physical.
Link can also control the projectile war. arrows block pills, bombs explode against capes unless sweetspotted, and caped boomerangs go upward, and allow link another immediate boomerang to throw.
Link can usually get around doc's edgeguarding. Doc CANNOT get around Link's edgeguarding (falling sex). Link is resistant to Doc's KOs, whlie link's horizontal KOing potential works well against doc's poorer air game and recovery.

[smashfan34]

Link vs Captain Falcon = disadvantage
Link simply cannot combo like CFalcon can. Falcon moves way too quickly. Once a combo has begun, Link is in big trouble unless he is already holding a bomb. I very rarely see this match favor Link if the Falcon player is at all proficient. :(

Link vs Samus = big advantage
Link almost perfectly cancels out Samus' advantages (Young Link has a slight edge with his steeper angle boomerang throws). Link can dish out projectiles faster than Samus can (regardless of her missile-cancel craze). As a result, Link neutralizes Samus' long-range barrage and follows threw with inpenetrable sword attacks.

Link vs YLink = small advantage or even
I have fought this fight probably a thousand times. Young Link's speed more than makes up Link's slight range advantage. The biggest mistake people make when doing this comparison is applying Link's combos to Young Link. The fact of the matter is Young Link has totally different combos and KO's opponents horizontally instead of vertically. Young Link has a better wavedash and can edge-guard quite well.

I still don't get how link has a huge advantage on samus, as you've said. what projectiles does link have that are faster than samus's? I would like to know, because whenever i play samus, i don't do that well in fact, i do rather bad. I believe I am not using some of links advantages against samus, because i dont know what they are.

Ill change link vs ylink to small adv. and captain ill make it even. when i find out why link does really well against samus, ill change that too. Oh btw cyphus, i do not agree that link vs marth is even. Sorry, I don't agree at all. In fact, i personally believe link is almost a counter to marth, but without a doubt there is an advantage of 6/4. down aerial kills marth too fast. + link has better recovery. link chain grab ruins the whole range that marth has because links hookshot is longer.

[Buzz]

Oh btw cyphus, i do not agree that link vs marth is even. Sorry, I don't agree at all. In fact, i personally believe link is almost a counter to marth, but without a doubt there is an advantage of 6/4. down aerial kills marth too fast. + link has better recovery. link chain grab ruins the whole range that marth has because links hookshot is longer.
Your inexperience precedes you. Marth is a very dangerous opponent. In the earlier stages of smash, Link seems to counter Marth with all his projectiles. However, once you start facing extremely proficient players, you quickly realize that Marth is quick and has ridiculously huge range. Cyphus speaks the truth, my friend...

[SLH]

Link does so well against Samus because he get vertical KOs on her. Alot of characters don't have such an advantage. Throw in projectiles cancelling out, projectile set ups, being one of the few characters that can edgeguard her, and being able to uair through her bombs...

I'll post on the other matchups when I have time.

[Keyblade Master Sora]

wow...judging by your list, link must be high tier!!

oh wait- he's NOT!
You can't make link good against 85% the characters..it doesn't make sense, lol.
link vs marth/peach is pretty even, it depends moreso on the level if link can play keep away or not. On most levels though, link cannot..so overall marth/peach, imo, have a small advantage.
capt. has the advantage, imo. Link has great tools against him, but he doesn't get to use them as often as he needs because of the huge speed disadvantage.

He is right link cant be that good against 85% of character then he would be higher tier i would suggest a change.

[Link-NY]

Samus has the advantage over Link its **** hard to kill her. Its hard to land a dair on her. She has an easier time comboing him. she also has a easier time edge gaurding him.

[NJ'zFinest]

Sheik counters Link
Link doesn't have one counter

Link counters pikachu
Pika can do well on Link, counter matches = 100% one sided

Link vs fox= fox adv
Link vs falco= falco adv
counters ^

Link vs Roy= link small adv.
Link destroys Roy

Link vs Dk= Link huge adv.
Dk can do well on Link...

link vs ness= link medium adv.
huge adv...

link vs ylink=adv.
Nope, YLink beats Link (spam combos, ftw?)

Link vs yoshi=small adv.
big adv...


My list:

Sheik rapes link
Fox "rapes" Link (depends on the fox's playing style)
Falco rapes Link

Cfalcon beats Link (barely)
YLink beats Link
Link = Marth

Link beats Peach
Link beats Samus
Link beats Jigglypuff
Link beats Ganon (barely)
Link beats IC (almost even)
Link beats Pikachu (barely)
Link beats Luigi
Link beats DK
Link beats Mario/Doc(barely)

Link rapes Roy
Link rapes Ness
Link rapes Zelda.
Link rapes Bowser
Link rapes Yoshi
Link rapes Kirby
Link rapes GW
Link rapes Mew2
Link rapes Pichu

So, yea, Fox/Falco/Sheik players are all Link players need to worry about...too bad those 3 players make up 90% of all tournaments.

[Z-N_Freak]

Link gets raped by luigi on small stages as Yoshi's Story. De Luigi just wavedashes everywhere and nowhere untill he can pull out a arial and combo link ftw =/

Only on stages like FD (Big + not to much platforms) Link Beats Luigi

[Skler]

Nah, Luigi isn't all that great. Hes got some nasty combos but that's about it, he can't KO Link that easily while Link gets early KOs, Link has a projectile game, Luigi doesn't (that fireball does NOT count).

It's not rape or anything, but Link does good.

[NJ'zFinest]

Link gets raped by luigi on small stages as Yoshi's Story. De Luigi just wavedashes everywhere and nowhere untill he can pull out a arial and combo link ftw =/

Only on stages like FD (Big + not to much platforms) Link Beats Luigi
That's wrong lol.
"Just wavedash everywhere until you pull out an aerial combo"
lol, I love your logic sir.

[Z-N_Freak]

Well, I beat a Luigi who was pretty good on FD, but I losed to him on Yoshi's Story and Dreamland N64. He was just comboing me all the time :/

What should I do then against him on that kind of stages???

[NovA™]

I agree with NJ'zFinest's list but I think Link has an advantage vs Y Link and Samus does good vs Link or is atleast even with him either than NJ'zFinest's List looks accurate. LINK FTW!

[NovA™]

oh one more thing i just read this :

Originally Posted by Z-N_Freak
Link gets raped by luigi on small stages as Yoshi's Story. De Luigi just wavedashes everywhere and nowhere untill he can pull out a arial and combo link ftw =/

Only on stages like FD (Big + not to much platforms) Link Beats Luigi

that shiz is funny as hell thnx for that laugh but i agree in some parts. lmao once again

[SLH]

NJ's list is the closest. Only things i'd change would be for Fox to be a big advantage instead of a counter. Counter just means you have absolutley no chance; Sheik being the prime example. Link actually has SOME kind of chance against Fox.

And I'd still call Link a Samus counter...

[Z-N_Freak]

oh one more thing i just read this :

Originally Posted by Z-N_Freak
Link gets raped by luigi on small stages as Yoshi's Story. De Luigi just wavedashes everywhere and nowhere untill he can pull out a arial and combo link ftw =/

Only on stages like FD (Big + not to much platforms) Link Beats Luigi

that shiz is funny as hell thnx for that laugh but i agree in some parts. lmao once again


well yeah, if you don't really agree tell me what I am doing wrong against that Luigi on the small stage. I won (big time) from him on FD but losed (big time) on Yoshi story. I spam Projectiles a lot and that is why he hadn't a chanche on FD. He couldn't come closer :p

But on Yoshi story I couldn't do a thing =/
He was just wavedashing as Hell untill he finded an opening and then he comboed the
hell out of me :(

gimme some tips please if you don't agree :)

[NJ'zFinest]

That's wrong lol.
"Just wavedash everywhere until you pull out an aerial combo"
lol, I love your logic sir.

This is the neg rep I got for this post
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/thelovebelow781/boards/negrep.jpg
lol, I know what I'm talking about, sorry sir
"Just wavedash everywhere until you pull out an aerial combo"
wtf is that, seriously guys

[Buzz]

This is the neg rep I got for this post
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/thelovebelow781/boards/negrep.jpg
lol, I know what I'm talking about, sorry sir
"Just wavedash everywhere until you pull out an aerial combo"
wtf is that, seriously guys
Oftentimes, even if you are 100% right, your approach can set off the surrounding egos. I've suffered it too. :(

[Aiser]

How to beat fox, >_> don't play on low ceilings. =\

[smashfan34]

In Tiers Order...
vs Fox 4 to 6
vs falco 4 to 6
vs sheik 2 to 8
vs marth 5.5 to 4.5
vs Peach 6 to 4
vs cf 5 to 5
vs ic's 5 to 5
vs samus 6 to 4
vs doc 5 to 5
vs purin 6 to 4
vs mario 6 to 4
vs ganon 6 to 4
vs link 5 to 5
vs luigi 7 to 3
vs dk 7 to 3
vs roy 6 to 4
vs yl 5 to 5
vs pika 7 to 3
vs yoshi 6 to 4
vs zelda 8 to 2
vs gaw 7 to 3
vs ness 7 to 3
vs bowser 7 to 3
vs kirby 7 to 3
vs pichu 7 to 3
vs mewtwo 7 to 3

[Buzz]

I would just let this thread die. Move on to bigger and better things:
Link Matchups - Someone who knows what's he's talking about (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=88516)

[NJzFinest]

I appreciate that Buzz :p

[Z-N_Freak]

This is the neg rep I got for this post
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d130/thelovebelow781/boards/negrep.jpg
lol, I know what I'm talking about, sorry sir
"Just wavedash everywhere until you pull out an aerial combo"
wtf is that, seriously guys

I am srr, I did get the same rep for some reason =/
It wasn't me really, I'll give you a plus rep in return lol. Probably some n00bs in a bad mood, lol

edit:
"you must spread some reputation aroun before giving it to NJzFinest again"

huh? I thought I didn't plus/min rep you before....
Well whatever, i'll give you a plus rep someday, weird pointsystem =S

[Doctor_Luigi]

Dr. MARIO COUNTERS ALL!!!!!!!!