Trouble recovering against Doc

[OcarinaLink]

Hey all. My rival's Doctor Mario just learned a pretty powerful edge-guarding strategy against my Link. I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions getting around it.

First off, this is 70%-100+% on Link. Basically, after I'm sent flying off the screen, my rival's Doc will turn around and hold onto the edge. As I'm making my approach to hookshot the edge (espcially with FD, when the very edge is the nearest to grab), he'll jump off the edge, b-air me away from the edge, and I fall to my death. His Doc always manages to make his way back onto the stage as well.

Any suggestions?

[smashfan34]

Hey all. My rival's Doctor Mario just learned a pretty powerful edge-guarding strategy against my Link. I was wondering if you guys have any suggestions getting around it.

First off, this is 70%-100+% on Link. Basically, after I'm sent flying off the screen, my rival's Doc will turn around and hold onto the edge. As I'm making my approach to hookshot the edge (espcially with FD, when the very edge is the nearest to grab), he'll jump off the edge, b-air me away from the edge, and I fall to my death. His Doc always manages to make his way back onto the stage as well.

Any suggestions?

yeah i got alot of things for yuh. You can throw out ur boomerang at him while ur recovering. Some reason i used to think you lose a jump or itll take too much time, but it really doesn't ). Umm, you can also hookshot feint if you are close enough to the stage. Which is when you dont airdodge, but fastfall and hookshot fast. watch when u fastfall the hookshot, because the length gets lessened a bit.

[TLOZ]

Try not to use your jump right away. You probably need to fall when knocked off then jump and use your hook shot near the bottom of the level. OR try to wait until his invincibility wears off and try to sweet spot the hook shot into him causing him to fall. You may be able to come back to the board with a bomb ready throw just as he lets go of the edge. These are just some ideas. I'm not sure if they will work, but you can try them. :)

[OcarinaLink]

When I'm near enough to the edge, I can hookshot feint. It's when I'm struggling to get back from far away that's the problem.

Chucking items at him helps sometimes, but he'll still b-air me away even when I'm chucking a bomb at him, and he'll make it back. Saving my second jump helps a little bit, but I keep feeling I lose come-back distance if I don't double-jump out of flying away.

If I try to sweetspot the edge, he'll use the time that I'm air-dodging to b-air me away.

[Link_Rules_Chu]

yo dude i have the same problem my main smash buddy uses doc and that can get relly anonying im not too good with technical talk but i dont know nevermind i forgot what i was ganna say. my best advice just try not to get in that situation if you do find out an answer to this post it up so i can check it out.

[Blue Link]

There's a couple things you can do. First, air dodge down then hookshot then fast fall. You have 4 seconds to hold on to the hookshot and come back. Kinda, play with him. or hookshot and once you hit the stage press A to release it and you won't be that close to the stage after that up-b. You could choose to sweet stop or land on the stage after that. Or hookshot really low, release it and up-b. If he's at the edge or is about to edge hog, throw a boomerang or bomb at the edge. It'll save you a lot of time. hopefully, that helps

[Aiser]

use your up b lol. <_<

[mkmelee]

Up-b is often times not good enough to reach the ledge.

[Aiser]

then try to sweetspot, but up b is definatly my way of choice against a doc, you can't get caped and its hard to edgegaurd.

[OcarinaLink]

Doc can definitely cape the Spin Attack. Even if you DI away from the ledge, his cape is still long enough to reach you. Also, we're talking about a Doc that starts off edge-hogging the edge as I'm still coming back, so using the Spin Attack just begs Doc to edge-hog me.

[Aiser]

^ No because no matter which way you're facing you still grab on the ledge. <_<

[SLH]

I love how people always go straight for using the hookshot recovery.

Here's some news: Get hit out of the hookshot, you're dead 90% of the time. You get hit out of the up-b, you're also dead...no, wait, you're not! You still have the hookshot cause you were smart, and saved it for when you actually needed it!

On topic: Yeah, everything was pretty much said. Use projectiles, and mix up recovering between the hookshot and up-b. Hookshot feints would work well in this situation as well.

...Did your friend really only JUST discover this? He been living under a cave?

[FlipX]

I love how people always go straight for using the hookshot recovery.

Here's some news: Get hit out of the hookshot, you're dead 90% of the time. You get hit out of the up-b, you're also dead...no, wait, you're not! You still have the hookshot cause you were smart, and saved it for when you actually needed it!

On topic: Yeah, everything was pretty much said. Use projectiles, and mix up recovering between the hookshot and up-b. Hookshot feints would work well in this situation as well.

...Did your friend really only JUST discover this? He been living under a cave?

Or maybe hes just new to smash......

But ya do some feints or hookshot then jump out of it right before he has time to hit you with the bair. (if he will still hit you just use up+b or airdodge out of the way)

[SLH]

Well, I've seen OcarinaLink on the boards for several months. I assumed they both got into competetive smash around the same time.

[OcarinaLink]

My friend's been using this tactic for nearly three months now, actually. At first, i could get around it be being really random when coming back: sometimes jumping out of the hookshot, hookshot-feinting, FF-> Up-B.

It's the times when I know I can get back from, say, 135%, and I can still reach the stage with my hookshot, but not near enough to Up-B. I've tried bomb-jumping a bit as well, but he's starting to catch on quickly.

Also, the problem with Up-B, THEN using hookshot is that most times, at least for me, I can't tap-recover fast enough to air-dodge, then hookshot.

However...is there a way to hookshot while tumbling?

Also, Doc's B-air sends you sideways and away, so what I'm trying to achieve first is avoiding it. Either way, I'll die, hookshot or Up-B, if I get hit coming back.

So far, saving my double-jump has worked a bit, as well as projectiles. Still...it's not consistent as I like. I keep feeling there's a way around it, other than being random...

[t3heford]

why don't you try getting close to him, and as he tries to kick you, airdodge and hookshot!
I'm just speaking out of my *** here, and I'm a total smash noob, but it sounds like it'd work.

[OcarinaLink]

why don't you try getting close to him, and as he tries to kick you, airdodge and hookshot!
I'm just speaking out of my *** here, and I'm a total smash noob, but it sounds like it'd work.

Wish it would work, but I run the risk of hookshotting too close to the ledge. Plus, this is me coming back from a potential KO, so I'll need to hookshot by the very length of my hookshot, so I won't have much of a chance to get closer to Doc.

[t3heford]

Well, if you're coming back from a ko, I don't understand how you run the risk of hookshotting too close to the ledge.
Anyway, even if you are too close the the ledge, airdodge backwards! Links hookshot is pretty easy to land on levels like Final destination, so don't put pressure on trying to land the hookshot perfectly, worry more about dodging him. Try airdodging in all different directions, mix it up, and hopefully your doc won't keep track of you.

[ancientevil11]

you first need to be able to tap out of your tumbling. when you are knocked far of the ledge you would obviously be DI ing up and towards the opponent. while your are still holding that direction, smash teh control stick in the other direction and it should stop your tumbling. as for recovering against Doc...alll you need to do is mix everything up. there isn't really one way you should always recover as it gets predictable...good luck with that.

as for your previous question about hookshotting out of your tumble..yes you can.

[Link226]

well one of my friends are really good wit doc and what i do is nair him when hes gonna bair me....we would both hit each other and then i use my hookshot and get up on the stage.....well thats what i do

[NJ'zFinest]

Dodging torwards a certain direction + hookshot is your best friend. If you want, press A right after the hookshot connects to do that wierd jump thing, then DI away from the stage and sweetspot Up B

[pkmvodka]

Why don't you just hookshot the bottom part of the stage? He can't Bair you there if you up b when riding the wall.

[OcarinaLink]

Why don't you just hookshot the bottom part of the stage? He can't Bair you there if you up b when riding the wall.

No, but he can edgehog me as I'm coming up from my Up-B. Besides, we're talking about me *barely* being able to hookshot. Meaning, I'm at my hookshot's limit to actually latch onto the stage. I don't think FF-down to the bottom of the stage will help me, in this case.

NJ, I never thought of DI-ing backwards after hookjumping. I'll definitely try that one...

I don't know, he can just predict when I'm going to air dodge towards the stage to hookshot. He takes that one instant where I begin my hookshot animation to b-air me away. Items have helped, bomb-jumping marginally, but 50% of the time he still gets me. I'm still open for more ideas though.