non kamikaze finisher?

[spiffo]

This is mostly against my friend who switches between falco and fox ( big change...) but would help against anything.
He is a smash spammer, you know the kind who will chase you across the stage doing the forward smash while you just roll away, doesn't give me TOO much trouble but he's pretty quick. usually the thing that gets me is that once I get him off the edge I'll jump off and go after him, but I kill myself way too often. the only thing I've been able to get any sort of consistent success with is the boomerang but it just isn't enough. and getting him to 220% so I dont have to edge guard isn't very practical.

Any tips on what to do to keep him off without killing myself 40% of the time?

[Dark_Crono]

just dont go too far use you kick in the air and if you miss( YOU SHOUDNT) use you hookshot , and by the way you shouldnt be getting fox to 220%.

[FlipX]

When you jump off the edge to kill him make sure you are facing the edge. Then i like to do a nair to knock him back then airdodge to hookshot then edge hog or get back on the stage to hit him with an up b to finish him depending on how well ur nair worked. This also works with bair i just prefer nair for no real reason -.-

[spiffo]

hmm. sounds nice and simple. face the edge.. yeah that'll probably work.
and as for the 220 thing, I just used that as a number where its pretty much guaranteed that he'll die nomater what he's hit with.

[SexyDoodles]

just full jump and nair... then fall(probably fastfall) into him. you'll get out of the nair animation fast enough so that you can just double jump -> up B back to the ledge.

of course, their are other ways to use the nair, but this is the easiest.

[MASAHIROx]

yep this guy said it^^ it rapes fox's and falcos when they attempt to fire fox...also the boomerang helps aginst the illusion recovery

[Dark_Crono]

hey you can always throw bombs to help you face the edge.

[Skler]

If you ever get fox or falco to 80-100% grab them, upthrow and dair. It can't miss (unless platforms stop it) and it is a finisher on most stages.

About edgeguarding, you can just use f-tilts near the edge, you don't HAVE to jump out. Of course, if you are going to jump out use your nair early on so you don't plummet to your untimely death.

[balladechina212]

With Fox and Falco, a lot of the times you can time an up-B as they come up to spike them. The only reason you should be jumping out with nair is if they are smart enough to avoid an up-B spike or are really good at sweetspotting with the firefox or illusion.

[tobg]

just NEVER dair a recovering fox/falco, youre chances to hit are lower than a nair and you WILL fastfall to death.

[spiffo]

I know tobg tells me not to... but could a dair work if they're not particlarly low? say he's at about edge height. dair acceptable?

[balladechina212]

Why dair, when you can sex kick, double jump and come back.
After that you can either edgehog or up-B spike.

[tHrilla`]

This is one of my favorites: Full jump off stage into a nair, then quickly use mid-air jump into another nair. This can be performed facing either way without risking much. This technique is used when the knock-back from the first nair doesn't send your opponent far, thus followed by a second nair. Furthermore, be sure to DI back to the stage immediately after the second nair; this is especially important when you're not facing the stage. If you want to see an example of this method, there's a video of lord hdl (link) against b4k4 (fox) on youtube; he uses it to take down b4k4's second stock.

[spiffo]

alrighty. will of the people. I'll save dair for special flashy occasions and stick with nairing.

[balladechina212]

If you ever get fox or falco to 80-100% grab them, upthrow and dair. It can't miss (unless platforms stop it) and it is a finisher on most stages.

What do you mean it can't miss? What if they DI? I usually think that if you throw Fox or Falco (pretty light characters) up between 80-100%, they'll fly to high for you to dair immediately and they would have to be stupid to DI into your dair.

[tobg]

ya ball is right, i dont even throw them up at that point, just down, they still bounce high so i dont even try a uair or dair, mebbe a bair or nair, any sub-par fox or falco player can easily di and counter an upthrow at higher percentages, especially falcos dair (ouch). downthrow and MAYBE a downsmash, if you can get it off. i also found that dash attack works for this, and forward tilt in y.links case

[OcarinaLink]

arrows work well, also, against FireFox/Bird, if you can get the trajectory right. Also, if you can somehow hit them coming back with one, it'll kill their momentum and ensure their death (even if they're reflecting). if you want to do something flashy, spinhog them.