View Full Version : Future Speculation on Brawl: Would you give up PK Thunder for a proper 3rd jump?
teh_p3t3r
10-10-2006, 05:42 PM
****ed if I'm not a hypocrite. I like to make fun of my friends and say how awesome Ness is with his versatile PK Thunder, but if someone were to ask me if I'd trade it in for a proper 3rd jump with Fox like recovery and speed. Something a Puff can't jump into and take away MY GOD **** THUNDER BOLD.
So the question, Would you rather they keep Ness's PK Thunder (If so what would you like to change about it) or would you rather have a totally different 3rd jump that has much more recovery (I'm thinking PK Teleport)?
Earthbound360
10-10-2006, 06:00 PM
That's like asking a guy if he would trade 8 of his fingers for candy at every meal for the rest of his life. It may sound like a good deal at first, but after a while, you may regret your choice. You wouldn't be able to play Smash anymore, or in this case, edgeguard with it, hit people from anywhere, wallhug in a unique way, and all that glorious stuff, so...
No. No way. After the greatest experience I had with PK Thunder yesterday, no way (later). It is the best move in the game IMO. Also, during PK Thunder Jibaku, Ness is just as vulnerable as Fox in Firefox, Luigi in Green Missle, Ganon during Dark dive, and more. The real vulnerability is only in hitting yourself. But there are many methods to avoid that too. In Brawl, I want PKT to either
1. Be usable even after it hits an enemy
2. Bullet through enemies (This is my fav. Imagine edgeguarding!)
Oh, and the thing I did.
I was using a False Edgeguard on a Fox. As I shot out PKT, I tailwhipped him once, and he was still DIing towards the stage and he ended up behind me, so when I false edgeguarded, I still hit him. He didn't die, but flew to the opposite end of FD. I went back out to edgeguard him again, and did the EXACT same thing!:rotfl:It was just so accidental and so pro like that it just made us laugh. Oh! And he lost because of that too!:chuckle:
On a side note, this topic will be moved to the Brawl Board.
EDIT: I bit my apple this morining, and found half a worm in the place I bit. Then, I ate the rest.
Simna ibn Sind
10-10-2006, 09:49 PM
NO KEEP IT! KEEP PK THUNDER!
lol...if its gonnas be changed...how about like this:
1. It moves slightly faster...like 25% faster than it already does
2. In order to keep control of it you must hold the B button down...that way u can release B button to regain control of your character
while we're at it:
3. let's have it do 11% instead of 8%^_^
I'd trade Ness' current PK Thunder for something like Mewtwo's Teleport in a heartbeat.
...Although an improved PK Thunder sounds pretty cool. xD
Remember how back in SSB64 if you landed directly on the stage you would have no lag? Those were the days. I'd like Ness' SSB64 D-air back too plz. :p
I think that PK thunder should stay the same, but it should be changed into a power move instead of a utility move. It should do roughly 19 damage and have knockback distance of a fully charged PK Flash, but it should take 2 full seconds to launch and 3 seconds (Yes, 3 seconds) of no motion after it dissipates or hits. Also, Ness should be completley weightless while he is in the middle of the attack, so that it can still be used as a recovery move.
I think this would be interesting and more useful than his current PK Thunder, as it would take more time to master and relieve newbie nesses of their PK Cannon spamming...
Simna ibn Sind
10-10-2006, 10:09 PM
OOH I HAVE ANOTHER IDEA!
4. The tail of pk thunder is endless and it continues to grow as it is used stretching all the way from the head of the thunder to Ness' head drawing a path in the air
....lol i love that!^_^
AltF4Warrior
10-10-2006, 11:30 PM
Omg, there's no way they'd bring back ness's old dair! I swear, they put a lot into melee with the specific intention of stopping some of the broken things ness could do. A lot of it involving the dair spike. As a result, ness got a bit nerfed... but watch out! All you fox and falco players are in for a serious nerfing! (My official prediction: Watch for overcompensation. There's a very high chance that bowser will overpower fox in brawl.)
Hmmm... but as for the PKT... I don't think it needs a whole lot of change. They should just bring it back to how it used to be in 64. The PKT2 should just simply out prioritize other attacks and be freakin strong! (If I'm not mistaken, it used to be the second strongest hit in the game after the monkey punch... is that correct? It's been forever.)
The idea behind it was perfect! It takes skill to be able to reliably execute it each time, it has a bit of wind up time during which ness is vulerable, but if you get it right you're pretty much gauranteed to get back. I don't mind the landing lag so much because it encourages you to sweetspot the ledge, but I just can't stand being spiked out of the PKT2 by a falco dair! More priority is my suggestion!
Timotee
10-10-2006, 11:48 PM
Ooo, that's a rough one.
Not for keeping it or not, I'd say keep it, even if it isn't a move Ness has. (Gasp! Earthbound what?)
The problem is balancing it. We've seen both sides of the coin, a bit too strong and a bit too weak. I don't think anyone would argue that Ness needs a little priority around his head when he rides the lightning. Maybe allow it to pierce one enemy, so all the floaties that will be in Brawl can't just laugh as Ness falls to his demise. With the single piercing, you could easily double up on hitting someone, so damage wouldn't need an increase.
Of course, there has to be a downside, and my money would say that knockback or lag would be the places with the hits. Or even worse, distance.
Sensai
10-11-2006, 12:16 AM
Keep it, definitely. I agree with Earthbound360...right now, you might not want it in there, but when you realize what got taken away, you'll wish you had it back. What I'd like to see changed about it?
1) More damage, perhaps? Not much, just like 3% more or so.
2) Make it so when you HIT someone while they're on the way back, it DOESN'T send them towards the stage. I'm not saying make it spike (overpowered!), but make it hit upwards.
3) 2. In order to keep control of it you must hold the B button down...that way u can release B button to regain control of your character
/SIGNED!
4) I think it'd be neat if the bulk of it (the circular part), as it flew away from Ness, drew a tail and caused damage to anyone who walked in it. I mean that when Ness uses it, it comes forth from his head and goes to where it goes, but all of the twists and turns are made into a path of where the thing went. This part, the trail, would be the part that does minimal damage with no knockback. The immediate tail (the Melee's tail) would do the same thing as it does now.
[Edit:]
On a side note, not really a change, I wouldn't mind it getting a better priority.
TehGobbo
10-11-2006, 01:18 PM
Hmmm....good question.
There are advatages to both, but I like the pk thunder. Exchanging the pk thunder for a third jump sounds like an iteresting idea, but one of the major reasons I play as ness is for this unique ability. If they chaged it to a proper third jump, Ness would loose most most of its luster.
But if for some reason they did decide to make a chage, this idea would be most excellent.
2. In order to keep control of it you must hold the B button down...that way u can release B button to regain control of your character
PK Thunder has to stay... I mean c'mon it was in 64 and Melee... Ness just wouldn't be the same without it :(
Though I agree with the fact it needs to be improved >.>
Nemba
10-11-2006, 05:15 PM
What if you could send out Two Pk Thunder's at once? Using the C-stick to control the second. I mean...it might sound ridiculous because it IS ridiculous, but if someone got good with it. o.o Scary. That would mean you could do a double third jump.
Or... what if they could trade the Down+B for another PK Thunder. It would be a lot more useful than the shield.
Earthbound360
10-11-2006, 06:11 PM
What if you could send out Two Pk Thunder's at once? Using the C-stick to control the second. I mean...it might sound ridiculous because it IS ridiculous, but if someone got good with it. o.o Scary. That would mean you could do a double third jump.
Or... what if they could trade the Down+B for another PK Thunder. It would be a lot more useful than the shield.
Ouch... that's all i can really say
Simna's hold B thing rocks. We NEED that.
More distance
More priority
Less Lag
Hold B
Extended tail
More damage
quicker
bullet through enemies
That's my list updated
Oh, and you can't call yourself a Ness player if you wanna ditch PKT;) .
Oh, and teh_p3t3r, what's your choice?
Sensai
10-11-2006, 06:49 PM
I really like Simna's holding down B thing, but it brings about the question...how badly would it be abused?
I imagine you use PKT, aim it in a general direction, and then release B. Then do it again. That'd be a lot of things for people to dodge.
Actually...I guess not. The lag caused by aiming would be too long to allow for this type of thing.
Or maybe when you release B, the PKT goes away?
Oh, and you can't call yourself a Ness player if you wanna ditch PKT;) .Oh noes! I have been exposed as the Fox/Falco player that I am! Oh, the shame! :urg:
Sensai
10-11-2006, 06:56 PM
RAWR!
I guess I'm not really a Ness player...I come from a long line of mains, most of the time spent on Fox (pre-competitive) and then Ganon.
Earthbound360
10-13-2006, 06:10 PM
Whoops, computer problems made this a double post.
Earthbound360
10-13-2006, 06:11 PM
Oh noes! I have been exposed as the Fox/Falco player that I am! Oh, the shame! :urg:
*gasp*
You oughta be ashamed of yourself!:embarrass
...
...
heheh:p
Sovereignty
10-16-2006, 01:50 AM
the only thing i say return it back to ssb ablit when i fly half way accor the screen heh and it has more ko power as the "@/\/@1 r@pe" attack was cause have a diffrent one is not important all you have ot do is bractice teh b-up and it much better then anyhtign like a peaceful teleport although woudl agree it shold be something like a hold b over just a tap anywyas the b-up is a great spike move hit them for 5 dmg while you cant get back up for the hell of it actualy what i think is that they should improve his step kick cause its just not the same too weak (aha really if i wanted ness ot be super give it teh ablity to kill all)
Nemba
10-16-2006, 03:02 PM
I really like Simna's holding down B thing, but it brings about the question...how badly would it be abused?
I imagine you use PKT, aim it in a general direction, and then release B. Then do it again. That'd be a lot of things for people to dodge.
Actually...I guess not. The lag caused by aiming would be too long to allow for this type of thing.
Or maybe when you release B, the PKT goes away?
In reference to Simna's hold down B...I believe if they were to incorporate the hold down B then they would still keep that lag. It seems reasonable to keep the lag if you can hold down B and let it go whenever you want. It makes it more easier to escape. Technically, it wouldn't be able to be abused, but more easier to mindgame with them.
Earthbound360
10-16-2006, 05:06 PM
I also want the thing where PKT stays even after you get hit and lose concentration to be in all versions. So you can do PKT barrier in ALL versions.
DarkFr0g
10-16-2006, 05:40 PM
It should go through players and still live, instead of disappearing after one hit.
Making it disappear when you release B would work against it, actually. It'd make fake edgeguarding and PKJ much more predictable, since normally people would get rid of their PKT after it misses if they had no further intentions with it.
Earthbound360
10-20-2006, 10:42 PM
It should go through players and still live, instead of disappearing after one hit.
Making it disappear when you release B would work against it, actually. It'd make fake edgeguarding and PKJ much more predictable, since normally people would get rid of their PKT after it misses if they had no further intentions with it.
Yes to the first one, maybe to the second. That minor fakeout would not be bad enough to get rid of Ness still concentrating when there's nothig to hit.
Oh yeah, and I want PKT to be like in 64 in which you could have 0 lag if you PKTJ across the ground and the incantation was ledgegcancellable. $_$
t3h_p3t3r, I would still like to know your opinion.
theblackmage
10-21-2006, 10:55 PM
Give up PK thunder? NEVER! It still should be changed though:
I like the idea of holding down b to control it, it's so annoying when I miss hitting my enemy and getting killed by him. It should do about 11% damage and go a little slower, (25% slower as suggested earlier).
For the PKTC I think it should be the same as it was in ssb. That move was only reason I chose him over my original main: Mario. It would be cool if you could still turn yourself after getting hit by the thunder (while your being shot out). That would make recovering using ledges easier.
All of his pk moves should look more geometrical like they did in Earthbound. I think they would look really cool.
Simna ibn Sind
10-22-2006, 05:37 AM
slower? why slower?
As it is now, PK Thunder is way too hard to get the goodness out of...takes way too much hard work...the only thing that could be added, i think, that would make the way it is now fine is if you could walltech your pk thunder^_^
Earthbound360
10-22-2006, 03:04 PM
slower? why slower?
As it is now, PK Thunder is way too hard to get the goodness out of...takes way too much hard work...the only thing that could be added, i think, that would make the way it is now fine is if you could walltech your pk thunder^_^
0_o
Wouldn't that be a bit overpowered?
...
...
I like it!
Ness would have the best recovery ever!
Simna ibn Sind
10-22-2006, 05:45 PM
i dont think it would overpowered....ppl would still have the ability to jump into your thunder...of yourse that WOULD give ness an infinite stall^_^
of course Ness never has to worry about other characters using infinite camp-stalls on him...like peach bomber or ylink gun camping stall....because of pk thunder and all^_^
Earthbound360
10-22-2006, 06:03 PM
of course Ness never has to worry about other characters using infinite camp-stalls on him...like peach bomber or ylink gun camping stall....because of pk thunder and all^_^
Luigi ladder anyone?
TiaraPrincessMarth
10-23-2006, 12:17 PM
I say DITCH IT!! Lose it and remain faithful to Earthbound. I think Ness should lose PK Fire too. However much I love SSB, it pains me to see how skewed Ness has become from his original character. The Moves were originally PSI Fire and PSI Thunder!! And while I know that it would be lame to say "PSI Fire" during a match constantly, it's all the more reason to not include it in Ness's arsenal.
I say we give Ness PSI Teleport like he had in Earthbound, and put Paula in Brawl with all over her lovely PSI moves, including TEH FREEZE.
Simna ibn Sind
10-23-2006, 09:46 PM
yeah....they should have PSI(favorite thing) in as one of Ness' moves and actually let you name it! lol
technomancer
10-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Howabout a customizable Ness w/ selectable Psi moves from the game? Maybe have two recovery moves (PKT and maybe a Luigi-style missle attack or something), and have some interesting combinations available, as well as classic PK fire and whatnot, and you could assign them to any direction, and they would adjust trajectories based on that direction and stuffs. Imagine a forward shooting PK Flash?
Sensai
10-23-2006, 11:16 PM
Not a fan of customizing, due to the fact that someone'll figure out the best combination and then THAT will become the standard.
technomancer
10-24-2006, 04:16 AM
Of course, the trick there is to make certain combinations good against certain characters, and certain combinations that don't use the optimal solo moves work well together.
TiaraPrincessMarth
10-24-2006, 04:23 AM
yeah....they should have PSI(favorite thing) in as one of Ness' moves and actually let you name it! lol
Actually they Kind of Did.
The First "Don't Care" option when you are naming his move is "PSI Rockin' " And I believe that is the name of both his horizontal grabs.
teh_p3t3r
10-24-2006, 04:35 AM
put Paula in Brawl with all over her lovely PSI moves, including TEH FREEZE.
Paula would break the game and be God tier if they did that. Her PSI powers were off the freaking charts (All bosses fall to PSI Freeze Omega), and she was the fastest in the Earthbound crew, while Ness is the slowest. So if Ness is slow, imagine how fast Paula would be in brawl?
Paula = Fox speed with Samus projectiles.
0wnage
They should revamp the PK Thunder by, for example, allowing to do closer twists, because this recovery move is useless on small gaps (like Fourside) because you can't complete the circle.
SSJ4Kazuki
10-24-2006, 07:37 AM
DITCHING PK THUNDER? Are you mad? HELL NO!
Diddy Kong
10-24-2006, 07:55 AM
Paula would break the game and be God tier if they did that. Her PSI powers were off the freaking charts (All bosses fall to PSI Freeze Omega), and she was the fastest in the Earthbound crew, while Ness is the slowest. So if Ness is slow, imagine how fast Paula would be in brawl?
Paula = Fox speed with Samus projectiles.
0wnage
Same could be said about Mewtwo. He's way faster and stronger than Pikachu.
Meaning with this logic, Mewtwo = Fox speed + Ganon power. And you all know that Mewtwo is defending the tittle "Worst Character of the Game".
Removing PK Thunder? That's insane!
Ness has the most unique recovery of the game, and it's been there since the N64 Smash Bros.
It could deffinatly need some buffing, like more priority. But cancelling the bolt with B also sounds nice! Creative idea's in here, I like them!
I say, keep the PK Thunder. Ness wouldn't feel the same without this move.
And that's saying alot.
Sheek
10-24-2006, 06:10 PM
Naw, PKT is Ness' signature move in this game, and his most useful too.
sin360
10-24-2006, 07:17 PM
keep the pkt but having it bullet through people and knock back from some1 else posted would be fun but way overpowered
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