Alright...so some vids

[KishPrime]

Finally have some recent videos up from this past weekend. Yeah, I SDed...and it cost me the set. >_< Jiano is the man for getting them up. Unfortunately they are against my brother, so the mindgames are messed up.

I'm opening myself up to criticism because I'm tired of missing opportunities to really punish people with combos, and I'm not sure if my style just prevents me having those opportunities or if I really am just missing opportunities, so what I'd really like is if anyone has specific suggestions for times that I could have followed with a combo. I see other players pulling off crazy ridiculous combos, and I don't. :p

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=91193

lawl roffle

[ihatethecape]

its all good. i use to do that a lot 2 cuz i was wopin'g way too much in one straight edgeguard. your puff rapes though and imo is one of the best out there. what helped me is keeping in mind how many jumps you've used or perhaps counting to 3. if by 3 they are about one hit away from not being able to come back i usually go for it if i'm not too far off from the edge. if by 3 i see it might take like 2 more hits and i'm not making it back or i'm a t a low percentage i usually don't go for it and what i do is ledgehog and rise with a nair so that even if they make it back the nair will send them back down and then i proceed to edgeguard again. your puff is awesome though and i play pretty much the same way. puff fox is one of my favorite teams. my usual teams partner is a fox so i could use some advice. we grab to rest i think a lil too much although it's really helpe din sets where we've been down a good 5 stock. what is your basic gameplan.? i have my own but can always use some pointers.

[KishPrime]

lawl...you can never grab-rest too much.

Our basic gameplan is basically for Jeff to pick on anyone over 80%. Otherwise just rest when you can and talk a lot and that's about it.

As for killing myself, I just missed the edge and panicked. If I'd just pounded I would've been fine. :p

[ihatethecape]

true. what do you guys do when you fight a peach? who takes the peach or is just whatever?

[KishPrime]

I keep her busy, he kills her around 80. That's the plan anyway.

[ihatethecape]

sounds efficient. do you have aim? ;)

[D'oH]

air camper

kekeke

[KishPrime]

the original!

[ChozenOne]

you have a better Fox+Falco game then me.. i guess just mindgame in Uthrows??

[KishPrime]

Kinda. Squared DIs practically all of my uthrows, but I can still sneak them in occasionally. Other Foxes are not generally so lucky. The only other person who managed to DI me every time was Rob$, who plays against Zulu a ton.

[ChozenOne]

Out of curiosity who do you think are the best Jiggs in the US?? and does Japan rep it up for our puffy friend??

[Arcnatural]

I watched the singles. One thing I noticed in the beginning of the first match. You knew he was going to phantasm and you tried to land on the stage and f-smash. You could have just jumped a nair to intercept the phantasm to edgeguard or follow up fairs to kill the firefox.


As far as combo strategies:

If your looking for WoP edgegaurd combos more you need to (when they are close to the edges) midpercentages sh bairs DI off the edge if it hits and follow up. Hi-percentages sh fairs near edges do the same thing. Full jumps won't work because if you hit the 1st aerial your too high to follow it up most of the time, and if you hit the 2nd you have to land and l-cancel and by then it can be too late to follow up. Sh aerial then DIing off the stage if it hits will enable you to follow it up. You can still DI back if they shield or you can just go right through them if your good enough. He upsmashes out of shield a ton though so I'm not sure if going through would work that well.

The other way to get jiggly combos is through upairs or uptilts. As your brother upsmashes out of shield alot falling upairs definitely will not work unless you can properly mind game them in. So the occasional fj bair to falling upair l-cancel'd to grab if sheilded or uptilt/ sh upaerial/fj aerial (mostly upairs at first) if it hits can start off decent combos.


The other thing I noticed is after the % is over for the throw to rest you hardly ever throw anymore. And if you do you f-throw or d-throw in the middle of the stage. If they are near the edges depending on when you grabbed you can f-throw or b-throw to edgegaurd. Otherwise unless the percentage is high you should always u-throw and try to follow it up.
Since your brother expects a lot of WoP you could surprise him with a fj fair/bair to waveland grab. Plus if he DIs the throw early and you can't rest try to follow it with an up-air or dash attack (jiggly has good range with that).

I don't know if the style you play would be able to cope doing these ideas without breaking down. But hopefully some could be useful for a change of pace. Since you WoP camp so well, I think if you had a style change to sh aerial and grabs in the middle of a match it could create too much of a re-adjustment to some opponents that normally play your style well.

[F8AL]

Thanks for the videos!

[KishPrime]

If your looking for WoP edgegaurd combos more you need to (when they are close to the edges) midpercentages sh bairs DI off the edge if it hits and follow up. Hi-percentages sh fairs near edges do the same thing. Full jumps won't work because if you hit the 1st aerial your too high to follow it up most of the time, and if you hit the 2nd you have to land and l-cancel and by then it can be too late to follow up. Sh aerial then DIing off the stage if it hits will enable you to follow it up. You can still DI back if they shield or you can just go right through them if your good enough. He upsmashes out of shield a ton though so I'm not sure if going through would work that well.

The other thing I noticed is after the % is over for the throw to rest you hardly ever throw anymore. And if you do you f-throw or d-throw in the middle of the stage. If they are near the edges depending on when you grabbed you can f-throw or b-throw to edgegaurd. Otherwise unless the percentage is high you should always u-throw and try to follow it up.
Since your brother expects a lot of WoP you could surprise him with a fj fair/bair to waveland grab. Plus if he DIs the throw early and you can't rest try to follow it with an up-air or dash attack (jiggly has good range with that).


I'm a little confused by the first para because you said DI when I think you just meant move, am I correct? So on a move that I think will hit him I should actually not land and commit to falling off the edge afterwards in the hopes of following up? That's an interesting thought.

As for the throws, I saw one where I did what you said and it was a button mistake. I hardly ever throw on Squared period because I rarely land them. That's just a matchup thing, against most fastfallers I'm throwing constantly. I got lucky twice in the first match and that was all I needed. But I actually know nothing about Jigglypuff combos out of the uthrow. When can you not land a rest and still land an uair combo off an uthrow on Fox/Falco?

[Arcnatural]

I'm a little confused by the first para because you said DI when I think you just meant move, am I correct? So on a move that I think will hit him I should actually not land and commit to falling off the edge afterwards in the hopes of following up? That's an interesting thought.


Yeah you got it right. I mean you should say sh bair/fair and if it hits don't land, just move right off and commit to the combo. If they firefox you should have it with either a bair or a fair. If they double jump it's most likely going to be a phantasm, so you can just jump to nair to interrupt. Just make sure you stay in front of them when they are falling.


As for the throws, I saw one where I did what you said and it was a button mistake. I hardly ever throw on Squared period because I rarely land them. That's just a matchup thing, against most fastfallers I'm throwing constantly. I got lucky twice in the first match and that was all I needed. But I actually know nothing about Jigglypuff combos out of the uthrow. When can you not land a rest and still land an uair combo off an uthrow on Fox/Falco?

This I'm not to sure about. I thought If they smash DI up you can still hit them by double jumping to upair, but I could be wrong. But whenever I upthrow and they DI to make it too risky to rest I upair combo. Since Jiggly has great DI in the air you can normally do 2 upairs then DI back or forward to a fair/bair combo. If you have a 100% rest rate when they don't smash DI it. Then I guess this is no point for you. Good to practice though >.>;

Try the falling upair though. At low percents you can do a falling upair (l-cancel-d) uptilt to rest. Works particularly well on Cpt. Falcon. Otherwise just falling upair to w/e. At your level of play it is probably too risky to do too much unless you can trick them into it (such as tech chasing if you don't want to risk missing a rest).

[KishPrime]

I do falling uairs usually but most people just block them. Certainly Squared does, and the smash out of shield he sometimes uses to hit me even when I'm behind him. It knocks me away anyway.

How do you generally hit with the uairs? Do you have to do fakeout land-throws first to get them to not always block? I just think I'm too predictable with them, because they always get blocked.

[Arcnatural]

I tend to WoP with fairs on occasion, and instead of doing a full jump with a fair DI'd back then another fair. I'll occasionally either delay the first fair till I'm about to hit the ground and l-cancel to grab, or shffl nair to grab. Or just plain jump waveland to grab. So yes I do fakeout grab a ton. But I also air-camp quite well (I doubt I play the caliber of players you play frequently but works well). Also FJ nair's to upairs (like peach's dair to nair float style) works on applying sheild pressure( and allows you to upair right on top of them while DIing out of the upsmash range). I also like shffl bair (land right in front of them backwards) and uptilt a few times (works well in catching Fox before his upsmash). It's all about transition.

The key to the Upair approach really is the DELAY. You do not want the upair to have the same timing as a WoP approach, since they will block it the same way they block the WoP. If you notice several times you'll catch them when they jump with the first bair/fair out of the fj in the WoP. Occasionally make the 1st aerial an upair and who knows? You might catch them. I tend to always do an upair in place of another aerial with some sort of delay involved. Like Fj bair di away back forward 2nd jump ff upair. Try to catch them when they were comfortable letting go of block where you would typically would have bair'd by then. I often catch them jumping or right after a grab or upsmash animation.