All Characters Match-up Chart (9/07 update)

[ChozenOne]

Good Shizz Good Sir.. Good Shizz.

edit- i liked your old sig better..

edit2- what ever happend to BornFidelity??

[ToP CaT]

Ya fox on falcon, fox can be annoying and exploit his strengths in this match up, but really good falcon players can rape foxes all the same, (ss, and dark) 5-3 seems good

[Goodies]

:yoshi: For Falcon v. Fox, I'm pretty sure Fox only needs shine, neutral air, and maybe grabs.

It's almost too easy. Falcon's only real hope here are free tech chases, low altitude knees, and some good neutral air use. That's all I see going for him, though.


Yeah Falcon's has it bad against Fox. It's definitely a 5-3 in Fox's favor and almost a rape matchup if it weren't for the grab combos and easy grabs or aerials combos from following his tech.

[Mrobinson587]

I posting so I can find this easier.

Why is kirby a 4 with shiek? I looked on the kirby boards but i can't find any reason why...

[Mogwai]

because there's a video that's older than time itself of Isai ALMOST beating Ken's Shiek with Kirby. There is no logic reason here, Shiek rapes the **** out of Kirby.

[pockyD]

duck grabs!

[ResidentWaffle]

WTF why is link so low in match-up against fox? IMO Link goes at least even with fox and a lot of Link players own foxes( e.g. aniki, germ, trevyn) does anyone else agree?

[pockyD]

no link definitely does not go even with fox; link is combo bait of the worst kind, especially against any fox even moderately adept with the waveshine

[Airo]

stop refering to famous players, they have no weight in argument and they make phanna angry =/

[Wilhelmsan]

It's easier to waveshine than it is to be Aniki, you know...

[thesage]

Why is Ness vs. Falcon a three for Ness. When I went to chudatz biweekly a lot of the falcons I played were pretty easy for me. I didn't play any ganons though, but my friend mains ganon and the matchup is pretty even between us, though I sd a lot.

Ness vs. Pichu is harder for Ness than Ness vs. Mewtwo. Pichu is much faster than Ness and Metwo's DjC < Ness' DjC. I think that Pichu should be a 7 and Mewtwo a 9.

[Airo]

your reasons arnt legit ._."
if i were to argue like you would, i would say something like:
Ness Fair > Pichu Fair
Mewtwo Secondjump > Ness Secondjump



i would agree with the chart giving ness a 7 against mewtwo

reasons..... theres not much reason to offer in such nonextreme cases. in this matchup, ness's approach is simply more dependable than mewtwo's approach.

[krazyzyko]

That is just character's though. What about the skill if the player?Well THAT chart might be a bit larger don't you think?

[Mr. Derp]

because roy falls down lika sissy girl when fox reflects him, I think he is better against fox than marth is. it means no reflctor-> grab-> uair. plus roy has his own pretty good combos on him. not sure about roy versus falco, probably a little worse for roy.

[ToP CaT]

roy is better against fox than marth??? WHAT!!!!!!!! plz stop talking

[Mr. Derp]

the reason no one can see his skill over fox is becaause there are simply no videos of roy, you probably havent played a good one yourself. and marth vs. fox is definitely even btw.

[Samochan]

because roy falls down lika sissy girl when fox reflects him, I think he is better against fox than marth is. it means no reflctor-> grab-> uair. plus roy has his own pretty good combos on him. not sure about roy versus falco, probably a little worse for roy.

It seems like you've been living under the rock or just lack general knowledge of the game, because it does not matter whether the character falls down or is waveshineable since all fox needs to do is waveshine into jab, which resets the opposing player and forces them do the wakeup animation (not the wakeup attack, unless you have godlike timing after you've hit the ground and before the jab to press a). This maneuver makes it so that fox is free to do whatever he wishes, be it grab, aerial, usmash... so no one is safe, except the selected few that slide too far from waveshine to get comboed. Roy has a lot worse recovery than Marth, Marth's tipper >> Roy's fire damage, worse comboes than Marth has on fast fallers and generaly worse character than Marth is. There are many reasons why roy is low tier and marth is top. :/

[Mr. Derp]

yhow many times do foxes perform the thunders combo on average? yeah. I've been around smashboards for a while, I'm not the best player but I know my fair share and I'm telling you, roy's crouch cancel -dair to w/e is built to beat up fox. Theres only 2 neo vs. fox matches matches on all of youtube, one thats pretty old where he destorys rockcrock and one where he loses by one stock to guess who, Ken's fox. honestly how much experience do you have against roy to know? Btw, the falling down thing was a joke, it only slightly helps, I just think that roy has been built to be slightly better against fox than marth. one match-up isnt going to be changing any tiers.

[Gustav Wind]

Marth has wicked chaingrabbing. And uptilts.
He actually has an aerial game. They're pretty much equally comboable by fox.

So, Marth's natural advantages give him the better matchup.

[Emblem Lord]

Technically Fox can't shine combo Marth unless Marth CC's the shine. Other wise Marth can dodge or grab Fox out of an attempt to grab or combo after a shine.

[ChozenOne]

I'm pretty sure Fox can shine marth, and then grab him during the lag >_>

[Gustav Wind]

Technically Fox can't shine combo Marth unless Marth CC's the shine. Other wise Marth can dodge or grab Fox out of an attempt to grab or combo after a shine.

Nah, fox can also combo marth when he's not DIing.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qTIiBKG91Dg

I think Marth only has time to react when DIing away.

[Emblem Lord]

I' m pretty sure Marth can spot dodge without DIing.

[StripesOrBars]

Roy does extremely well against Fox.

On small stages, I'd say it's close to or at worst even.

However, if Fox can camp, Roy is garbage again. . . .

. . . .just like Kirby.

[ChozenOne]

*waits for update*

*grows beard*

*developes cancer*

[Gustav Wind]

I' m pretty sure Marth can spot dodge without DIing.

Doesn't Training Mode's "combo counter" record number of consecutive hits that you've landed while the opponent is unable to react? (it doesn't account for DI, but it does account for things like dodging or using your neutral air to break a combo).

[goateeguy]

I assume that the list of chars goes from highest to lowest tier. Am i correct in this assumption?

[pdk]

yes, my lad, you have indeed hit the mark

[Plairnkk]

I' m pretty sure Marth can spot dodge without DIing.

nah, fox can get to marth with a grab or a Usmash before the lag is done. If you smash DI the shine away, fox may only be able to grab.

As far as roy vs fox, it's not terrible but marth is obviously better vs. fox than roy. The only reasons roy does well against anyone is their lack of knowledge and knowing how to get out of things, just like most other low tiers.

[tarheeljks]

I don't know anyone who plays Roy at all, much less someone who plays him well. That being said, can someone explain exactly why Roy has a better matchup against Fox than Marth. (haven't checked the earlier posts yet, about to do it).

[pdk]

marth has the better matchup son, a number below 5 means that the character in the top row has the advantage over the one on the left

[EdreesesPieces]

I honestly don't see why Peach has so much "trouble" with Ylink. They are even probably. Take the top peaches in the world and have them face the top young link's in the world and Peaches are probably better. Take a noob Ylink and a noob peach and that Peach probably wins too. Then take a Peach around my level and a Ylink around my level and I'll probably win that too.

Ylink has his projectiles but Peach can cancel the boomerang with a back air, and also cancel on e and hit him with the same back air.

Also due to the back air's disjointed nature, it eats through his up b (or trades hits) if hit at the right spot, making for easy edgeguarding.

Let's not forget that crouch canceling, one of young link's biggest weaknesses (most chars in the game can crouch cancel most of his stuff and counterfire with something good) , is one of Peach's biggest strengths. All his jabs can be CC'd into downsmashes.

The main reason Peaches lose this matchup is because downsmash is no good, and you have to use it only very sparingly (Because it gets shieldgrabbed easily)

Ylink can combo her like crazy and piss her off and control the match with projectiles, but Peach can control the match if she gets upclose and doesn't let him stay away. Also it's not that hard for her to get in if you're playing prediction and suceed at it. I think it's even, or maybe I can see Ylink with a slight advantage. I'd say 4 would be a fair estimate there, rather than the 3 it's now. I like most of the rest of the chart though, EXCELLENT WORK! :)

[tarheeljks]

@pdk: I know how to read the chart-- someone previously stated that they thought roy had a better matchup and i was/am curious as to why.

[KeepSpeedN]

nice chart phanna!

[Mr. Derp]

I basically said, he cant bne shine combo'd, he chaingrabs and edgeguards just as well as marth(against fox anyway). just my opinion.

[Wilhelmsan]

I honestly don't see why Peach has so much "trouble" with Ylink. They are even probably. Take the top peaches in the world and have them face the top young link's in the world and Peaches are probably better.
Bombs and hookshot = pwnage

[Tope]

Jiggs doesn't beat ICies wtf.

ICies desynch Fsmash and Jiggs loses.

5-3 or 5-4 in their favor.

[ChozenOne]

I agree w/ Tope...

[smashfan34]

This list is stupid, it is so ridic. link just about is at a disadvantage against anyone cool. I guess aniki sucks then huh? Oh wait, hes one of the best in Japan, hmm? well I guess it is fair to say link is countered by everyone dont play link. theres no point in even arguing with this list is based off of people that have no experience that argue that their character does better because they LIKE them. OHHH COOL I like PEACH Lemme say Peach counters link because Peach is so cool. **** this site. go onto the link boards, any experienced link player will say this is ****. I'm not wasting my time. this list is ****** and cant be fixed. Im done posting on a useless site with inexperienced pieces of ****. MEW2king said it himself, this list is the worst piece of **** hes ever layed his eyes on. **** this site, go **** play with poke balls, you ******* suck.

[ChozenOne]

This list is stupid, it is so ridic. link just about is at a disadvantage against anyone cool. I guess aniki sucks then huh? Oh wait, hes one of the best in Japan, hmm? well I guess it is fair to say link is countered by everyone dont play link. theres no point in even arguing with this list is based off of people that have no experience that argue that their character does better because they LIKE them. OHHH COOL I like PEACH Lemme say Peach counters link because Peach is so cool. **** this site. go onto the link boards, any experienced link player will say this is ****. I'm not wasting my time. this list is ****** and cant be fixed. Im done posting on a useless site with inexperienced pieces of ****. MEW2king said it himself, this list is the worst piece of **** hes ever layed his eyes on. **** this site, go **** play with poke balls, you ******* suck.
You are clearly fuxing w/ ignorance.. Player skill is a HUGE favor in who wins, and who loses. Jigglypuff is also at a clear disadvantage much like Link against many higher tiered characters, however King still plays w/ her... right. Familiarity w/ the matchup is also a very large factor when deciding who wins or loses a match as well.. think what would happen if a younglink didn't know to spam against peach/jiggs when playing against them... total rape.

The above comment [yours] is a waste of energy, and probably caused a baby duckling to die in a frozen wasteland.

Good Day Sir.