Character Rivalries and How They Could Affect In-Game Play

[Bones0]

Well I've been thinking about this for a while and decided to post it to just get the idea out there. As most of us know, some characters seem to rival others, particularly Fox vs Falco and Marth vs Roy. Let me first state this is NOT to create a rivalry between the people who use the characters; if anything, the system would probably make a friendly rivalry because the matches between the characters would be more fun/interesting. Enough blabbin' though, I'll cut to the chase. :p

Imagine this example with Fox and Falco (assume they are the same as they were in Melee to make things simple): Against any other characters, Fox's and Falco's shines need to be jump-cancelled. This may not be a very good example, but their special "rivalry" would make it so the shines have zero lag and don't need to be jump cancelled. Again, this is really stupid but something SIMILAR to changing 1 or 2 moves, I think, would be cool.

Basically, I'd like to see some characters have a rival with which one or two of their moves react differently. Not only would it make choosing characters more complex to counter-pick, but I have a feeling it would create a friendly/special/slightly cheesy bond between the players who use those specific characters... So discuss... Hopefully it's not too confusing... :dizzy:

[LinkGadra]

An interesting idea, but how exactly would it be implemented?

Only 1v1? What about 2v2 or Free For All? Would every character have a rival, or just a few?

[Bones0]

It could be any match and maybe even an option for turning it off but I think with just a fwe subtle changes like how moves affect them, that it wouldn't be a problem having it all the time. As for every character having one, I don't think that'd be necessary as it'd kind of take away from the special connection but if each character had one that'd be okay. I'm definately against the idea of having more than one rival per character though.

[Pablo18]

I can do without it.

[goateeguy]

Do you mean rival as in 'character who has similar moves with slightly different effects' or 'character who when matched up with your char guarantees an extremely interesting match that will never reveal whether character is higher-tier'?

[WindGuru]

I had an interesting idea about rivalries. What if we had distinct victory poses?

Like Link/Ganondrof reluctantly shake hands (more like try to wrench each other's fingers off), Marth and Roy spin their swords around, shaking fire everywhere, and Samus slaps Snake for looking at her through a pair of binoculars.

[Bones0]

Do you mean rival as in 'character who has similar moves with slightly different effects' or 'character who when matched up with your char guarantees an extremely interesting match that will never reveal whether character is higher-tier'?

Exactly!

(hidden bump...) >_>

[MikeyLombardi]

Interesting to see, but I'd probably play without it even if it was in there...

[Paranoid_Android]

NO.


It almost sounds cool and then you remember how much it'd **** up the game.

[RVD_fan]

Interesting to see, but I'd probably play without it even if it was in there...

I can't think of a single person who would avoid purchasing this game just because it didn't have this feature.

PS: like the victory poses idea

[HiddenTiger]

Absolutely not. This sort of thing would screw everything up so much. For starters, the tier list would completely fall apart. Here's a hypothetical situation for you:

Wario has a 'rivalry' advantage over Mario. Mario has a 'rivaly' advantage over Luigi. Luigi has a 'rivalry' advantage over Wario. Who then, is the best of the three? Who's highest tier when each one is better than the person who is better than the person that's better than them.

Not to mention how many people would take the cheesing route and wait until their oppenent picked to make their choice. Tournaments would never even start because all the players would hesitate to be the first to make a move.

Or perhaps it would actually lead to certain characters being banned altogether. "You can't play as your favorite character here. They have too many advantages over other characters. We'll tell you who you can play as."

So, character rivalries = terrible game. Do you want Brawl to be a terrible game?

[RVD_fan]

I can't think of a single person who would avoid purchasing this game just because it didn't have this feature.

PS: like the victory poses idea

Sorry, I read through your post too fast and misunderstood you

[Aesir]

Absolutely not. This sort of thing would screw everything up so much. For starters, the tier list would completely fall apart. Here's a hypothetical situation for you:

Wario has a 'rivalry' advantage over Mario. Mario has a 'rivaly' advantage over Luigi. Luigi has a 'rivalry' advantage over Wario. Who then, is the best of the three? Who's highest tier when each one is better than the person who is better than the person that's better than them.

Not to mention how many people would take the cheesing route and wait until their oppenent picked to make their choice. Tournaments would never even start because all the players would hesitate to be the first to make a move.

Or perhaps it would actually lead to certain characters being banned altogether. "You can't play as your favorite character here. They have too many advantages over other characters. We'll tell you who you can play as."

So, character rivalries = terrible game. Do you want Brawl to be a terrible game?

NO.


It almost sounds cool and then you remember how much it'd **** up the game.

It could be any match and maybe even an option for turning it off
This must have slipped peoples minds?

[HiddenTiger]

I saw that part. 'maybe it could be turned off' doesn't change the fact that it's not a good idea, regardless of whether or not it's optional. This is just another one of those "that'd be awesome!" ideas that don't really have any merit past how cool the creator thought it would be.

[dotdotdot!]

I love this idea, but I agree that it would break things irrevocably.

So how about this. Under certain conditions (Like, 1 on 1 matches between rival characters on a stage from their series) you can hold down the A button and R button at the same time and activate a "Rivalry Match." These would, of course, be banned for tournament play, but they would add in an extra bit of fun for when two rival characters battle each other. That way, it couldn't actually effect anything unless you made a conscious effort to activate it.

Then you could just have some crazy fun with Characters' weaknesses and abilities and stuff, and maybe even apply some extra battle effects. F'rinstance:

Mario v. Luigi: Would mirror the original "Mario Bros." Game, AKA the Mario 3 battle mode.
Jumping on each other's heads does damage.
Mario's Fireball becomes stronger.
Luigi's Fireball becomes faster.
Pow blocks appear randomly across the stage. When one player knocks into it, the other player is shrunk.

Fox v. Falco:
The match steps up a speed class (They both get a ridiculous speed boost)

Pokemon V. Pokemon:
All attacks get stronger, But dodging becomes easier.
Mewtwo gets a furthur power boost
Pikachu/Pichu gets a speed boost
Jigglypuff's Sing becomes more effective.

Etc.

It would be neat

[Aesir]

I saw that part. 'maybe it could be turned off' doesn't change the fact that it's not a good idea, regardless of whether or not it's optional. This is just another one of those "that'd be awesome!" ideas that don't really have any merit past how cool the creator thought it would be.

why not? the game isn't just for competitive play. alot of people play this game cause gasp its fun. This idea would provide alot of fun for its players.

[Bones0]

Glad to see I have some support. And about this breaking the tier list... ummmm... isn't that good??? Now, instead of everyone picking the best characters, you have to master several characters to prevent someone from counter-picking with their rival every match. Also, I didn't mean things as game-breaking as you make it sound. It wouldn't have to give someone an advantage; it would just make the match a tiny bit different. (like the Mario and Luigi hurting eachother by jumping on top, which is an awesome idea btw)

[The Wrath of Koarin]

I had an interesting idea about rivalries. What if we had distinct victory poses?

Like Link/Ganondrof reluctantly shake hands (more like try to wrench each other's fingers off), Marth and Roy spin their swords around, shaking fire everywhere, and Samus slaps Snake for looking at her through a pair of binoculars.

Wind guru's idea is the best here so far.


Your idea bones is great,but complicated and would zap the fun out of using your best/favorite charecter in a tourny.

[dotdotdot!]

Glad to see I have some support. And about this breaking the tier list... ummmm... isn't that good??? Now, instead of everyone picking the best characters, you have to master several characters to prevent someone from counter-picking with their rival every match. Also, I didn't mean things as game-breaking as you make it sound. It wouldn't have to give someone an advantage; it would just make the match a tiny bit different. (like the Mario and Luigi hurting eachother by jumping on top, which is an awesome idea btw)

The problem is actually more along the lines of New, even more unbalanced tiers being created through this rivalry system. Thats why Most people (including myself) would prefer it if it was optional.

Also, I'm glad you liked my Mario/Luigi idea.

[goateeguy]

Exactly!

(hidden bump...) >_>

What do u mean "Exactly"? The first one or the second one?

[Scar]

What do u mean "Exactly"? The first one or the second one?

The second one.

[goateeguy]

Got it. This is one of the reasons that SSBM was fun in the first place. The chars always differ, and their different attributes make really fun, bizarre or otherwise interesting matches. If brawl doesn't end up like that, it is a serious loss and i would even consider not buying it. (Note that i havn't actually bought SSBM either. I've just been borrowing a friend's copy for who knows how long.)

[Scar]

Yeah I actually always found a few of the clone matches to be interesting, especially Fox v Falco. It was a pretty sweet touch albeit possibly unintentional that when Fox goes to shine he sometimes gets spiked by the ol' phantasm.

[Gravyguy101]

This would be a ****** Idea, Fox and falco kind of already embody this when you think about it how their shines work. Foxes shine destroys falcos recovery and falco's shine when used right can destroy a fox. It make perfect sense to me.

For those that cry about the tier list...

1.) american tier list change by the week anyway and is completely circumstanctial
2.) who cares about the tier list? and who is "best"

He is basically proposing a rock paper scissor type deal(tier list that)
which is semi evident in melee. but he is proposing a stronger version.

Think Peach, Fox, Marth, now before anyone spams me on he can do this to her or not uh your wrong, please post message me so I can tell you where to stick it.

Peach can already chain fox and her downsmash is brutal, now imagine if iher downsmash only did would hit fox more then once. thus a counter/rival. Now Fox's Up smash is especially painful to a marth compared to other character. again counter/rival, but.. Marth's sweetspot is increased when fighting a peach. So it becomes a rock paper scissor deal

And if a peach is fighting a captain falcon? then its the same, her downsmash isn't overpowered anymore. its like throwing a rock vs a rock in rock paper scissor.

Simple but could add alot to the game. ***** to code though haha

[Scar]

Gravyguy u r such a n00b kekeke u have no idea wat ur talkin bout!!1

Next time you're in Philly I'm gonna pwn you.

But yeah rock paper scissors sort of like every mindgame in Melee, i.e. during tech chasing you can either roll, get up in place, or attack -- the chaser either runs, stands in place, or gets around the attack (spot-dodging or jumping over).

[goateeguy]

Sorry to make u cry, but ive never been to philly in my life and don't plan to. And yes, i m a noob. Why else would i be here asking so many questions? (plus only a true noob admits that he is one, so there.)

[Knux]

Ummmm, LOL, he wasn't talking to you. He was talking to GRAVYguy...not goateeguy.

[KevinM]

Ok i think the thing that a lot of people are looking at are like over powered rivalry boosts. But he's saying that a slight tweak is all it would be.

I was thinking perhaps maybe if when fighting a rival you have different taunts or maybe a little more flair to your moves, without added lag or anything.. just more flair. Like when mario throws a fireball he spins before he throws it ya know.

It would just add a little depth thats all.

[RVD_fan]

Gravy, Goatee, it's all the same

[linkw00t]

I was thinking perhaps maybe if when fighting a rival you have different taunts or maybe a little more flair to your moves, without added lag or anything.. just more flair. Like when mario throws a fireball he spins before he throws it ya know.

It would just add a little depth thats all.

Yeah, then all the "competetive players" would be mad because the spin takes up more frames! THAT WILL RUIN THE GAME! OMG NO ONE WOULD BUY IT!

Like people give a **** about "competitive play". People just want to play a fun and entertaining game. It will be different from SSBM...SSB is different from SSBM. If you don't like it stick in the past.

Personally, I think the rivalry thing sounds cool, if it's kept to slight modification, anything more and HiddenTiger's crazy phophicies about how the game will be terrible will come true.

/sarcasm

[Scar]

haha Sorry you thought I was calling you out, goateeguy.

And by the way, the wisest of men are the ones who know they're fools. Think about it.

[goateeguy]

Gravyguy u r such a n00b kekeke u have no idea wat ur talkin bout!!1

Next time you're in Philly I'm gonna pwn you.

But yeah rock paper scissors sort of like every mindgame in Melee, i.e. during tech chasing you can either roll, get up in place, or attack -- the chaser either runs, stands in place, or gets around the attack (spot-dodging or jumping over).

ohhhhhhhhhh! GRAVY guy! i thought you said GOATEE guy! i need glasses.:laugh: