On modified controllers

[nealdt]

This is a public service announcement.

Controller mods of ANY kind (short-hop mod, L-trigger mod, etc), except for cosmetic changes (paint job, different colored plastic), are banned. If you are caught using a banned controller you will be disqualified from the tournament.

Some amount of controversy has arisen in a particular subregion of the Pacific West about the use of modified controllers. I would like to remind everyone in that region of the above rule and make sure the risks they take by using a modified controller. Is it true that "all" the MLG pros do it? Maybe. Is it true all the local pros do it? Also possible.

Does that mean it's ok for you to use one? No.

Of course, it's up to tournament directors to enforce the no-modification rule. Major League Baseball has had a well-publicized problem with steroids for a few dozen years, but it's only been lately that a commissioner grew the balls to do something about it. Will Pac West tournament directors follow the same path and stand up to the people who illegally modify their controllers?

Or does anyone really care?

Either way, I would like to announce that there may come a large tournament this summer, one you won't want to miss, that may be enforcing the no-mod rule very strictly. So think twice before dropping a Benjamin on a modded controller.

Thus ends this public service announcement.

EDIT: this is not a debate on what makes a modified controller. Please do not attempt to start one in this thread. This post is just a reminder of standard tournament rules.

[SuperRad]

...
I'm wondering what this could be in reference to, as far as modified controllers. Unless there is some kind of subtle mod people have been using that I've never noticed, I didn't know this was actually a problem. Then again, maybe it hasn't spread out of the "particular subregion of the Pacific West" to norcal yet.

EDIT: Oh, and I think you should be more vague next time :laugh:

[nublet06]

lol no map hacks. for the price that i hear these go for...id rather just bribe tournament directors for a rigged bracket.

i honestly dont see what could be done to make it easier to push a button (lol what is the world coming to) but at least this lets people know that a lot of sketchy controllers are used by the big players. if they stopped using it would they play worse? no. but is it unfair? meh....up to the tournament directors to decide.

[Aftermath]

Yarr, I don't know how to read.

Oregon's going to make a Godzilla controller to eat the tournament organizers trying to enforce this.

[NintendoKing]

This was a public service announcement james. Go start your own freakin thread about blah blah blah this that and the other thing some place else.

[ender]

a public service announcement about what? what controller are you talking about? it mainly seemed like a promotion for a tourney.

[nealdt]

It's a good sign if it doesn't make sense to you. But it does makes sense to a lot of people.

[SuperRad]

It's a good sign if it doesn't make sense to you. But it does makes sense to a lot of people.

The problem is that if this modification is something subtle, I think the community needs to be informed about it so that they can detect and thwart cheaters. However, that also means that the community gets knowledge about a new way to cheat. It's six in one, half a dozen in the other.

[Balloon]

It would be cool if I knew what you were talking about. I wasn't aware controller mods were any sort of recurring issue.

[manacloud1]

**** nose sanchez strikesssssssssss again.

how can you tell if someones controller is modded? You going to stand there and open every controller just to see? Any mods of any kind right. Wait so is a controller without a rumble pack a mod? or controller with flashing lights. I win nealt u lose.

[Balloon]

Flashing lights on a controller is obviously a cosmetic change. You lose.

[forward]

This is the biggest waste of a thread I've ever seen.

[manacloud1]

Flashing lights on a controller is obviously a cosmetic change. You lose.

the truth is i win. Neal talks about l short triggers etc, but the fact is it still takes skill to use. I agree with foward this is a ridiculous thread posted by neal. He has too much free time.

[Butters 000]

What does a 100$ mod for your controller do?

[Delphiki]

First of all, this is not a competition.

Manacloud, of course there will be instances where you can't tell if a controller is modded. That doesn't mean that you won't be able to tell in all instances. If somebody is caught modding they will be banned, and this thread is simply a reminder of that.

[manacloud1]

First of all, this is not a competition.

Manacloud, of course there will be instances where you can't tell if a controller is modded. That doesn't mean that you won't be able to tell in all instances. If somebody is caught modding they will be banned, and this thread is simply a reminder of that.

and can u tell me once again what defines a mod. The word mod is overly used how i see it. Lets say your controller breaks and u take it to a store to fix it, i guess thats a mod then because thats what i do for people. If people need me to fix their controllers looks like its not a mod right.

[Aftermath]

Mana, I was wondering the same thing and even posted some big rant, but like NK has said, this is just a PSA and the specifics for some reason are not open for interpretation here.

Apparently a mod is only considered a mod if a change you made to the controller makes something in the game possible without any skill whatsoever, like how I'd assume a SH mod would make any press of the X or Y button only be down for like 2 frames or something so that even a noob would be able to SH all the time with that button. I have no idea what would consitute an L trigger mod, or the etc. thing, but apparently there's going to be some crackdown on something that no one would really notice and wouldn't really be able to be proved either way unless it's some horribly complex macro thing.

[Balloon]

It sounds to me like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing. Any mod is fine, as long as it doesn't give a player an advantage over another player in regards to the game. Easy as that.

[Aftermath]

Bart, how do you determine whether it does or not? That's what he's arguing, and even though neal specifically said not to argue that, it's a valid concern.

[Delphiki]

Let's just start a thread somewhere else where we can talk about what constitutes a bannable mod. Let's not pollute neal's thread.

And whoever cares enough to start the thread should also care enough to post the link here.

[ender]

well neal cant make it otherwise we would be polluting that neal thread instead of this one.

I just remembered the time we pushed your car through that intersection neal. weird.

[SuperRad]

Honestly if neal wants us to not post in here, he has the power to do so.

And I think making this post and then saying "this is not about what constitutes a mod" is ridiculous. Especially when he makes a post so vague that it's pretty much pointless...

[manacloud1]

Honestly if neal wants us to not post in here, he has the power to do so.

And I think making this post and then saying "this is not about what constitutes a mod" is ridiculous. Especially when he makes a post so vague that it's pretty much pointless...

i totally agree controller mods are like so vague, it makes no sense what the term mod means. I mean all i do is fix controllers and if fixing controllers is a mod. Then looks like im going to be banned. What if someone was just opening their controller then some paint got on the circuit and made it better would that be modding, who knows. Halo players use stop watches to know when specific items appear is that modding or hacking its still cheating. If they were skilled they wouldnt need it correct? So what constitutes a mod in smash when in the end even with a modded controller lets say it doesnt guarantee you victory over a better player.

[MyKo]

i hope my controller isn't a mod.

all i did was switch 2 buttons that came FROM THE CONTROLLER ITSELF haha

[nublet06]

people need help pushing a button. i know it can be hard at times....so i dont blame them. if they want to fiddle with the spring in their L trigger or pay someone a retarded ammount of money to do it for them....let it be.

and you do not just "fix controllers" mike. i remember a few bi weeklies ago you tried to sell me your services. I destinctly remember you saying you would mod my controller and make it better. for something like...200 dollars (ROFLMFAO). if my controller was fine...why would i need you to "fix it". then you went on to say that it is why ken is so good, and you only used to do it for him but now you do it for other people. and people like koreandj and mew2king love them and look how good they are now.

i realise these statements were just part of your sales pitch to get some money. (dont worry i also know that you get paid to go to school and nothing is about money) so now when you come off acting like all you do is try to avoid finger strainging or some crap like that.... it seems silly to me. because apparently it was supposed to make me the next koreanDJ. maybe i misunderstood and u just thought my controller was broken and wanted to help.

[TheBOSS]

I feel that the issue on controller mods should go as followed:

1. if the mod is simply cosmetic then it is fine.
2. if the mod allows any player the capability to enhance their skill by which only through a modification, (thus giving an advantage) then it should be banned.

I have a great deal of respect for many of the pro players, but i must admit, when i hear rumors that some of thier controllers may give advantages, I cannot help but wonder, if the average player were to have these modifications, would they improve their technical game? I say technical game, only because controller mods don't have any affect on mind games. Good mind games you learn through experience and practice.

I'm not asking or requesting anything, but I would hope that those (if they do so) use contoller mods which enhance their playing, would simply stop using them at tournaments, when money is on the line. Is it not cheating when you take one's money through trickery.

I am not accussing anyone of doing such things, I am just reiterating on the concept that if people are doing so, then they should know what they are doing is wrong.

[manacloud1]

people need help pushing a button. i know it can be hard at times....so i dont blame them. if they want to fiddle with the spring in their L trigger or pay someone a retarded ammount of money to do it for them....let it be.

and you do not just "fix controllers" mike. i remember a few bi weeklies ago you tried to sell me your services. I destinctly remember you saying you would mod my controller and make it better. for something like...200 dollars (ROFLMFAO). if my controller was fine...why would i need you to "fix it". then you went on to say that it is why ken is so good, and you only used to do it for him but now you do it for other people. and people like koreandj and mew2king love them and look how good they are now.

i realise these statements were just part of your sales pitch to get some money. (dont worry i also know that you get paid to go to school and nothing is about money) so now when you come off acting like all you do is try to avoid finger strainging or some crap like that.... it seems silly to me. because apparently it was supposed to make me the next koreanDJ. maybe i misunderstood and u just thought my controller was broken and wanted to help.

ya its just a sales pitch , all those *******es really dont buy anything from my fix it up controllers. Your too smart for them nublet but i almost got you too. Oh btw, rofl when i make the prices so absurd like 200 i normally joke becuase i wouldnt offer my services to those kinds of people. You know the cocky ones.

dont get me wrong boss, pro players dont need modded controllers to win, but a nice controller that will follow their movements and actions is not what is called modded. If you havent noticed nintendo is getting cheaper on parts lately and the newer the controller u buy the less parts you get. Does this account for nintendo modding their old controllers to fit sales? The point is this thread is useless. Neal just wants to stir up something and people can say what they want. How I see it, ice climber infinte is more of a problem then a good controller.

btw, dont act as if this thread is aimed just towards me, there are lots of players in the ec, mw, and south that have opened up a game cube controller. What mods can you really do?

[Shmooguy]

Here's the way I see it.

If you change the jump buttons so that you short hop 100% of the time, or make it so that you can tech/airdodge by barely pressing down the L/R triggers rather than having to make it click, then that's a type of mod that should not be allowed.

If you clean out your controller or sandpaper the tubes inside to make it easier to press your triggers or maybe the control stick doesnt get stuck as often then that is a type of mod that should be allowed. Before you judge anything, let me explain.

There are plenty of people who open their controller simply because they are curious to see whats inside. Sometimes, they clean it out, and they're done. Others paint them different colors, or switch parts around from different controllers, or mess with springs or whatever just to see what happens. If they now use that controller to play in tournaments, is that now considered a mod? How can you even tell the difference if someone made it easier to press their L/R triggers or if someone made it that way just by wearing the controller out? If we take this one step further, we could compare differences between different controllers. The way certain controllers are made are different than others. People say it'd be cheating to mod your controller, but look, already right off the bat certain controllers act differently. Nobody would say, oh look you're using a silver one, it's built differently, so it's not allowed. Likewise, just because someone's controller is built a little differently doesn't mean it should be banned.

Whether it's on purpose or by accident, I'm betting almost half the players have "modded" their controller in some way. Also, if nobody has noticed mods until now, then it doesn't seem like it would be too much of a problem. There isn't anyone who receives a modded controller and becomes Mew2king overnight. This is just controller preference. When people hear "mod" they think people did some crazy **** to it so that they play twice as good, but in reality that's not true. I know for me, my control stick was broken, it kept forward throwing or backthrowing instead of downthrowing and also it was harder to dash dance to the left and had a greater chance of going right. I had similar problems with my L button. Now that it's fixed, is that considered a mod?

[nublet06]

oh yeah i guess i was just confused. now you say it does nothing to make you better....but when you tried get 200 dollars from people at the bi weekly it was supposed to make them a lot better. i dont care if you only offered me 200 dollars because you think im cocky...or because you dont like me. i didnt buy anything because i think of you as a cold hearted person. you only wanted to take advantage of people who you obviously think are stupid. so i guess everything is fair. just like it always is. and of course you always win....just like you always do.

[EzynJAY]

Here's the way I see it.

If you change the jump buttons so that you short hop 100% of the time, or make it so that you can tech/airdodge by barely pressing down the L/R triggers rather than having to make it click, then that's a type of mod that should not be allowed.

If you clean out your controller or sandpaper the tubes inside to make it easier to press your triggers or maybe the control stick doesnt get stuck as often then that is a type of mod that should be allowed. Before you judge anything, let me explain.

There are plenty of people who open their controller simply because they are curious to see whats inside. Sometimes, they clean it out, and they're done. Others paint them different colors, or switch parts around from different controllers, or mess with springs or whatever just to see what happens. If they now use that controller to play in tournaments, is that now considered a mod? How can you even tell the difference if someone made it easier to press their L/R triggers or if someone made it that way just by wearing the controller out? If we take this one step further, we could compare differences between different controllers. The way certain controllers are made are different than others. People say it'd be cheating to mod your controller, but look, already right off the bat certain controllers act differently. Nobody would say, oh look you're using a silver one, it's built differently, so it's not allowed. Likewise, just because someone's controller is built a little differently doesn't mean it should be banned.

Whether it's on purpose or by accident, I'm betting almost half the players have "modded" their controller in some way. Also, if nobody has noticed mods until now, then it doesn't seem like it would be too much of a problem. There isn't anyone who receives a modded controller and becomes Mew2king overnight. This is just controller preference. When people hear "mod" they think people did some crazy **** to it so that they play twice as good, but in reality that's not true. I know for me, my control stick was broken, it kept forward throwing or backthrowing instead of downthrowing and also it was harder to dash dance to the left and had a greater chance of going right. I had similar problems with my L button. Now that it's fixed, is that considered a mod?

kira 4 top 20 lol jp....

[OoNoiRoO]

So can you use switched sticks or what?

[JTB]

You had to know it was coming...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y31/jake_the_boy/keepcool.jpg

[manacloud1]

oh yeah i guess i was just confused. now you say it does nothing to make you better....but when you tried get 200 dollars from people at the bi weekly it was supposed to make them a lot better. i dont care if you only offered me 200 dollars because you think im cocky...or because you dont like me. i didnt buy anything because i think of you as a cold hearted person. you only wanted to take advantage of people who you obviously think are stupid. so i guess everything is fair. just like it always is. and of course you always win....just like you always do.

u think im cold hearted in your pov thats fine with me. However, think of it like this people come to me for this, i dont do any pressure, im just offering a service. No matter how it is people will do what it takes to get better. An athlete buys new shoes to run faster, a baseball player buys new gloves to catch the ball are these mods? What if the glove has extra packets to allow easier catching is that a mod? When neal mentions steroids thats like refering to actually getting into the schematic of the controller and making it so obvious that your cheating. What i do isnt cheating otherwise people like Edreese wouldnt consider it. Im throwing out edreese because hes a smart guy and knows what he wants. No offense edreese.

[Nightblade]

At this point, I think this thread should be a "what is a modded controller?". 100% short hops is probably a no-brainer, but other than that I don't know of any (too new to the community).

[Fefnir Cerveau]

Oh, I see. Guess it's good since I don't have a modded controller.

[6th Sense]

this is a pretty stupid thread SH mod?? wtf XD

["D.C"]

ooops bad post

[Sizzle]

Well for any of the SoCal people that saw my controller at AZone, painted controllers are greater than all.

[sephirothken]

yes I cheat in smash,
I have a moded brain that's too good for mind games,

quick moded little asian hands who move super fast and really technical,

the moded ken Aura which makes people suicide on command,

and of course the moded Ken combo

please ban me, its unfair for me to play in tournaments :)

[Delphiki]

People argue over this same thing in tons of different perspectives. At what point is an advantage considered cheating?

Like Mana said, better equipment (which is similar to using a different character) isn't considered cheating in other sports. Likewise, do you have an unfair advantage if your opponent has a malfunctioning controller?

No, you do not. The fact is that your opponent chooses to compete with that controller, meanwhile you may or may not decide to use a better one.


However in this community, a thing should be banned if it changes the metagame too much. If a modded controller improves one skill so much that many players who were equal before are quite far below afterwards, it should be banned.

Now ask yourself: is this the case?