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The new Roy Strategem discussion

KirbyKaze

KirbyKaze

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Roy's actually pretty good at shutting down aerial approaches. Tipped Side B, CC D-tilt, CC grab, DD grab camp is pretty good defensive mix.
 
Palpi

Palpi

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I have been maining marth pretty much since I started playing melee, and for some crazy reason, I find Roy much more fun. Once I get into roy's 80-20 mu's I probably won't the same though. I am gonna try to post some videos for critique sometime in the next couple weeks. =]
 
Palpi

Palpi

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I know in the current guide it said "I think this is the only legit 100-0 MU in the game" or for roy...my memory failed me. I don't have any experience in the match up, but considering how easy roy gets cc'd i don't think it could be better than 80-20.
 
J

Jihnsius

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I think it is. Roy has the most hitstun time in the game, which means he is easily chaingrabbed from 0-death. I'm not sure if it applies to grab break time, but if so then it makes him much easier to wobble, too. ICs are too floaty and light for Roy to combo. The only thing he really has is DED to keep them away, and even then that's hoping they don't SDI or DI out of it and get in on you. I suppose since they're so floaty you might be able to OOS reverse blazer to relieve some pressure, but if you can grab, get it, and go for downthrow/forward throw mixups to lead into another grab, tilt, or smash. Since they have a huge wavedash, spam dtilt always when you have range, it'll knock them out of an approach and kill their projectile.
 
Palpi

Palpi

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Yo magus...we should play sometime. Melo and I have gotten ALOT better since september. I think we would make you have to go falcon or ganon =]
 
Magus420

Magus420

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No, there is no such variable. Hitstun is based directly on launch speed/knockback. It doesn't matter what character it is. Roy just falls faster than Luigi so on 2 equally powerful launchers there will be less distance you need to travel to reach him when the hitstun (which will be exactly the same for both) ends. If talking about that then Falco actually has the most 'hitstun' because he has the highest top fall speed, and Jiggs has the least.


Also, sure Palpi let me know.
 
Palpi

Palpi

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Hey guys.. I think one of Roy's worst match ups is samus. Samus can crouch cancel everything, cant be combod that well if you manage to get one off, and if you choose to grab a lot because of samus's crouch canceling, you will barely do damage since you cant really lead into anything. Missiles force me into the air or into my shield where my options are very limited as well. My friend who is far worse than me has taken a few games off my roy, when i can 3 stock him with like 9 other characters, and i also think of roy as one of my better ones.

/discuss ...help?
 
Sethlon

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Jab and fair are good moves for slapping away missles. Fsmash will also cancel on breaking a missle, though not really useful. Powershielding is effective...grab a friend and tell him to just fire missles at you all day to practice.

Get creative with throws. F/Dthrow, and if you think they're going to double jump right away, have a double jump nair waiting for them, and then peck with uairs. If you think they're not going to double jump, wavedash to dtilt/ fsmash or tech chase appropriately.

Once you actually get samus into the air without a double jump, its really easy to juggle her with uair. Moving stages like rainbow cruise and pokefloats can sometimes help in pulling her out of her turtle, since shes forced to jump around to survive the stage.

All in all, its gonna be rough.
 
Magus420

Magus420

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For PSing with Roy, his and Marth's shields are glitched and pop up in the same spot regardless of the position you're in instead of being tied to the character. If you PS out of a crouch it's ridiculously disjointed, especially on your backside, though it kind of sucks regardless of front/back/crouch/stand if what you're trying to PS is really low to the ground at your shins/feet.



The full area is shield coverage in general, and the lighter green ring and white area inside of that is the part that will powershield. To go into the type of guard on animation that has the PS area in it (GuardReflect) you need to have the button clicked all the way down on the 1st or 2nd frame, and projectiles can reflect on the first 2 frames of GuardReflect (PSing attacks is a 4 frame window).

If you don't use the analog part of one of the shoulder buttons (the part before the click like you'd use for variable shield size) you can disable it by holding it all the way down when plugging in/resetting your controller to make PSing a little easier since lightshielding before you get it pressed all the way down and interfering with a PS attempt won't be possible, and you can also keep it pressed most of the way down before timing the PS without it doing anything so it acts more like a normal button. I l-cancel and lightshield with R, so I disable analog on L and use that one to PS.
 
Palpi

Palpi

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Thanks sethlon, I will test it out.

Magus, that **** is pretty cool.

edit; i played the samus and i seemed like if i spaced properly i could jump away from his dtilt after a fair. So I kept baiting his dtilt after my fair and fsmashed him. I agree that when he has no jump or is recovering uairs and fsmashes are easy to land.
 
Nø Ca$h

Nø Ca$h

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roys fsmash has more priority than marths.

marth's forward b and neutral b cannot clank projectiles, but roy's can. that is already known.

most of marth's grounded moves (jab, ftilt, fsmash) clank when they hit projectiles. air atks cut through due to infinite priority. but roys fsmash can BRAKE PROJECTILES W/O LAG. just like air atks. marths cant.

so if a doc is recovering and uses pills as cover, just fsmash.
 
Magus420

Magus420

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Pretty sure the f-smash stuff just depends what hitboxes you're hitting with. Priority of clashing hitboxes is based on damage. If the difference between the clashing hitboxes is like 7-8 damage or less they both clank/cancel out, and if greater than that the stronger one continues normally and the weaker gets clanked/canceled out.

Ground moves generally clash only with other ground and projectile hitboxes, and air moves only with projectiles. Marth's side/neutral-B don't clash with any hitboxes, similar to lasers which are projectiles that don't clash with anything. If you tip Marth's f-smash it should do the same thing (and have equal priority as Roy's sweetspot as they both do 20%) since it'd be doing more than 7-8ish damage than the pill.
 
Reg15

Reg15

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Sethlon said:
Jab and fair are good moves for slapping away missles. Fsmash will also cancel on breaking a missle, though not really useful. Powershielding is effective...grab a friend and tell him to just fire missles at you all day to practice.

Get creative with throws. F/Dthrow, and if you think they're going to double jump right away, have a double jump nair waiting for them, and then peck with uairs. If you think they're not going to double jump, wavedash to dtilt/ fsmash or tech chase appropriately.

Once you actually get samus into the air without a double jump, its really easy to juggle her with uair. Moving stages like rainbow cruise and pokefloats can sometimes help in pulling her out of her turtle, since shes forced to jump around to survive the stage.

All in all, its gonna be rough.
Click to expand...
Sethlon=Too good.
 
Pi

Pi

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I started playing roy recently, he feels so fluid, the main problem I'm having is killing with him

Particularly floaty characters (IE anyone who's not falco/fox/falcon)

How do I kill a marth?
 
handsockpuppet

handsockpuppet

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knihT said:
I started playing roy recently, he feels so fluid, the main problem I'm having is killing with him

Particularly floaty characters (IE anyone who's not falco/fox/falcon)

How do I kill a marth?
Click to expand...
...fsmash...and...maybe DED...

edgehog or edgeguard with flare blade and DED and (for marth) even counter can work once you know he's gonna up-B.
 
Sethlon

Sethlon

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For marth; get him off the stage, grab the ledge. Roll up when he upBs and cash in a free fsmash. Daring edgeguards with fair/bair/flareblade can net you some early % kills; when he overBs is the weakpoint.

Dsmash will kill floaties at around 100%...just don't miss with it. If the marth is dashdance happy, a deep wavedash to dsmash can often hit him out of it.

If its one of those stocks where they just won't die, upthrow will kill floaties at around 175%, more or less depending on character and stage.
 
Pi

Pi

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ty for advice
are there any videos out with some good roy edgeguards/gimps?
i'd like to know just how far he can go out to play since gravity hates him
checking the vid thread now but if any matches stand out in your mind for thier gimps i would appreciate that ;p
 
Sethlon

Sethlon

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Gotta love the texture / music hacks.

Dthrow >> bthrow; if they DI dthrow towards you, its a free combo. Like @ 0:30 on the second video; a dthrow instead could have been a possible fsmash, and its pretty easy to edgehog/guard marth from there.

Upsmash is generally a bad idea against marth, he's too floaty for it to connect fully most of the time. At 3:20 on the last vid you hit him with a deep upsmash, and all you got out of it was 2% =/ Doesn't combo as well on him as the fast fallers, either. You're better off platform tech chasing with aerials, or fsmash for Fountain of Dreams platforms, when able.

Dash attack is...pretty terrible. The second half of roy's sword isn't even a hit box, its completely possible for your sword to pass right through them without it connecting. If you do connect with it, you can often combo into fsmash, but since its so slow more often than not it'll get crouch cancelled. The only reliable set up for dash attack that I know of is if you're chain grabbing a space animal at mid-high percent and they DI to your back.

Thats all I can think of for now.
 
Pi

Pi

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Yea that's all Zer0's handywork, the marth texture is one of his own creation.

Appreciate the help, I really didn't know what throw to use, does any other throw combo w/ another type of DI?

And yea, I was just kind of testing the waters with upsmash since it looks so ******, but I have had very very scarce success with it, it seems far to sketchy to rely on.

And I see what you mean with the dash attack, just had another session and tried it...had a really hard time even hitting with it.

Well seth appreciate the help, I'll get some more matches recorded when I feel I've made some solid steps forward w/ my roy game.
 
J

Jihnsius

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Mix up dthrow and fthrow. Those are the best, unless you're playing a spacie, then mix up some upthrows for chains.

With dthrow you can DED thunders for a free grab, or just go straight into a DED combo. If they DI wrong (towards you,) it's a free smash.
With fthrow, you can sometimes get a few free chaingrabs in until they become wise, and then you can start mixing up DED or dtilts/fsmashes.

It is imperative that you learn how each DED variation works on each character at each percentage range. forward up forward works on Marth for a nice damage + good knockback. If he's too far and/or shielding, always end with a down (forward up forward down) it's the fastest to recover from and shieldpokes like crazy. Plus most players don't know what Roy's down DED finish is. If you happen to combo the first three without knockback, always end with a forward DED. Crazy knockback, one of his best KO moves.
 
Pi

Pi

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What should I do instead of grabbing? DED?

And yea I'm not too familiar with each DED, I've been using some variations with down on the third hit cause that one looks pretty cool, and trying the third & forth forward hits for KO's
 
J

Jihnsius

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Down on third is only good if the opponent is shielding it and running out of shield. It pokes low. Aside from that, it's not good. Roy's grab game is amazing, it's one of his best options if he has the opening. It leads to a lot of mixup game, mostly smashes and DED with forward/down. But against fastfallers, upthrow can be a chaingrab and at higher percents, upthrow to upair to forward smash is an amazing combo. You have to get the upair right next to the ground so the forward smash connects.
 
Pi

Pi

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Jihnsius said:
Down on third is only good if the opponent is shielding it and running out of shield. It pokes low. Aside from that, it's not good. Roy's grab game is amazing, it's one of his best options if he has the opening. It leads to a lot of mixup game, mostly smashes and DED with forward/down. But against fastfallers, upthrow can be a chaingrab and at higher percents, upthrow to upair to forward smash is an amazing combo. You have to get the upair right next to the ground so the forward smash connects.
Click to expand...
yea that combo is so satisfying to land lol

On non-ffers, such as marth, what should I do out of grab? dthrow ->?
fthrow ->?
 
J

Jihnsius

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Mix them up. Forward throw can chain a few times into itself if he doesn't DI forward. It also chains into DED combos. Do it twice or so, and as soon you think he'll try to DI away, do a down throw. This will put him into perfect range for a forward smash. Or you can start with a downthrow and combo into DED If you manage to get him to hit the ground in stun with a downthrow, you can thunders with the first hit of DED and regrab. As soon as he becomes wise to downthrow and tries to DI away, forward throw will chain into fsmash or more DED.

None of these are guaranteed and are dependent on percent and how smart the opponent is and how good he is with smash DI or untumble airdodging.
 
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