God or Big Bang/Evolution: Where do we Come From?

What keeps a dog so attached to humans? Is it the fact that we feed them, give them shelter, pick up their ****. No, it is because they become attached to us. What keeps a dog with a homeless person? It is certinly not shelter or food. I doubt they care about their **** being picked up either. Dogs stay with people because of their attachment to them, they like to play because they have fun, they stay loyal because they like you. Dogs even dream, this is a sign of a sub-conciouss which forms complex scenerios in your brain using emotions.

Yes, it is hard to know what animals think. But animals do have emotions.

And yes, some homeless people do have dogs.

Water= Danger from all directions
Ground= Limited danger directions

Environmental adaptation, not only is it safer to be a groundling, but at the time, the resources on the surface of the Earth is abundant and unused, think of that as species taking their claim of gold

Emotions are a direct manifestation based solely upon instinct and represents the quality of a subject-object relationship. If the relationship between you and something else is bad, odds are, you will feel angry or sad or at least some degree of disdain. Ethics and Morals are a social byproduct of societal pressures devised by our primitive organizational ways; religion inadvertently created the Super-Ego most likely. Morals are a survival adaptation because it facilitates organization by keeping order and obedience to the mass's needs.

i do not believe in god, but i don't necessarily believe in the big bang theory either. how could god just create everything out of nothing? but the only way to believe in the big bang would be to believe in vacuum fluctuations. or as my friend says, the big bang is just another way to teach creationism. so i don't think that there is any way not to believe in creationism unless you believe that time is infinite and that all matter has been here forever. that it has changed and moved but has always been here. and can someone explain to me how cells with no brain, no thought process, no memory, will be able to figure out how to adapt to it's environment? and not only that but record that in it's dna in order to pass it on to the creatures offspring. i am only 15 so i might not have had enough time to experience some spiritual awakening or any other religious epiphany, but until that happens or another theory or religion comes along that brings me to my knees, i will choose to not believe in either.

Have you ever heard the term: "Ignorance is bliss"

Sometimes it's better not to know and just theorize.

I do believe that animals have emotions. But I do not think that they have morals. Have you ever seen a dog hesitate for steak that is on the floor because it thinks it might get in trouble? My dog eats everything we give to her, she has never hesitated to do something because of emotions.

An organism is actually less likely to survive on land because of seasons that cause animals to freeze and plants to die. Also, there is still attack from every direction because hawks could be above you, dinosaurs to your left, bears to your right, and fire ants could be swarming on your feet.

How would a plant form if we came from the ocean anyway? Plants are living and are built from molecules just like animals.

As a scientsit, I know that nothing is absolute, every scientific law could be wrong, that you have to be optomistic, but the truth of the matter is that there is a large amount of evidence supporting theories such as The Big Bang and Evolution. We see evolution everyday, dogs for example are clear signs of evolution, or actually devolution.Also, the new cross-breeding with puddles is evidence of evolution. While there is a great deal of evidnece supporting atheist, the only evidnece of a god is a book that has likely been misinterpreted or fabricated over time. While there is still reasonable likelyhood that a God does exist, the score reamains

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What evidence do you have that the big bang happened? It is theory correct, how do you prove it? How do you prove that god created everything? You can't, it is faith and faith alone that seperates religion from science. You have faith in different things which leads you to belive certin things.

I do not belive in God, i am more towards the big bang. the problem is that i have never been 100% convinced that the big bang theory is correct. I have never had sufficiant evidence so i cannot make a descision based on nothing.

And this is where the conversation is leading, has lead, and always will lead until there is some actual evidence. We just don't know. You cannot be any more sure of God than you are of science. Science makes more logical sense to me, but then again, we had to come from something right? I don't believe in God, but that's my decision. The fact is we can sit here and spout ideas for days, months, decades on end and never truly know the answer.

That is a very good observation Mr. Zenkin. Everything has to come from something. We are all descendents from Adam and Eve, which God created on the 6th day.

"Researchers suggest that virtually all modern men- 99% of them, says one scientist- are closely related genetically and share genes with one male ancestor, dubbed "Y chromosome Adam." We are finding that humans have very, very shallow genetic roots which go back very recently to one ancestor....That indicates that there was an origin in a specific location on the globe, and then it spread out from there." (U.S News & World Report, December 4, 1995)

If you say that evolution is logic, just because you don't believe in God or the Bible, that doesn't mean that creation isn't logic. Creationists look at the world and say, look how delicate our universe is, there must be a plan for all this, it can't be random. Evolutionists look at the world and say, there can't be a god, man just made up morals and ethics, we have to be random and made from logic.

You don't have to believe in God to believe in creation, you can believe in an alien who made us. The fact remains that the world is too precious and unique to be random. True, creationism usually refers to God, but that is because the Bible makes sense and fits with nature.

Zenkin said:

Science makes more logical sense to me.

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Can we not just leave it at the fact that we agree to disagree? I will surely argue, as I find that quite fun, but I don't really see a need since no one will ever be swayed from their own opinions. At least not often....

Zook said:

A. Tell them the sight or book.

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cite*

That is a very good observation Mr. Zenkin. Everything has to come from something. We are all descendents from Adam and Eve, which God created on the 6th day.

"Researchers suggest that virtually all modern men- 99% of them, says one scientist- are closely related genetically and share genes with one male ancestor, dubbed "Y chromosome Adam." We are finding that humans have very, very shallow genetic roots which go back very recently to one ancestor....That indicates that there was an origin in a specific location on the globe, and then it spread out from there." (U.S News & World Report, December 4, 1995)

If you say that evolution is logic, just because you don't believe in God or the Bible, that doesn't mean that creation isn't logic. Creationists look at the world and say, look how delicate our universe is, there must be a plan for all this, it can't be random. Evolutionists look at the world and say, there can't be a god, man just made up morals and ethics, we have to be random and made from logic.

You don't have to believe in God to believe in creation, you can believe in an alien who made us. The fact remains that the world is too precious and unique to be random. True, creationism usually refers to God, but that is because the Bible makes sense and fits with nature.

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The underlined part is what creationists commonly call "intelligent design" which basically states that some aspects of evolution are better explained through a higher agent. It's the fallacy that there is sometype of science that explains this higher agent claim. No intelligent design argument has any legitimate warrants since none of their theories can be subject to scientific scrutiny.

The itallicised part is a lie. Some evolutionary scientists advocate belief in God and that "He" created evolution.

Furthermore, your evidence is insanely general. No where in the evidence does it say anything about the "single descendent" being "Adam" at all. Just because they call it the "Adam chromosome" doesn't make it relevant evidence.

Just to clarify.

Actually he meant site as in website.

Can we not just leave it at the fact that we agree to disagree? I will surely argue, as I find that quite fun, but I don't really see a need since no one will ever be swayed from their own opinions. At least not often....

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I am starting to agree with him. This topic has no foreseeable ending. I went to church for the first time in a year and realized how stupid it all actually is. We basically give up all our opinions and beliefs for some almighty God so we can get to a magical place of clouds. Go figure.

That is a very good observation Mr. Zenkin. Everything has to come from something. We are all descendents from Adam and Eve, which God created on the 6th day.

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And then their children had children ect ect right? Where did Black people come from? Latinos? Albino and so on? And the real question: Why aren't we all ******** from all the imbreeding?

If you say that evolution is logic, just because you don't believe in God or the Bible, that doesn't mean that creation isn't logic. Creationists look at the world and say, look how delicate our universe is, there must be a plan for all this, it can't be random. Evolutionists look at the world and say, there can't be a god, man just made up morals and ethics, we have to be random and made from logic.

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Your exact opinion on this makes it very clear why religion and Creationism came into place, it's all too complicated and Humans couldn't understand how it worked, so there MUST be a God to control it. Look at your religion for just a second, then look at Egyptian Mythology, Greek, Roman, and Norse, everyone i know agrees that all of those Gods weren't real, when they are in fact the exact same as the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Gods, except the Greeks, Romans, etc. had a God for every different thing they didn't understand, modern religions just have one God that rules all.

That's all for now. (>'.')>

Blacks are only different in the colour of their skin. This is because of where they were raised. Long exposure to the sun causes pigments in the skin to change colour. You know how you get a tan when you go sunbathing? Well it's virtually the same thing except with long enough exposure at a young age (while cells start to grow and duplicate/multiply) this is what makes Black people Black.

Albino is the opposite, the pigments do not get as much exposure so they remain white as opposed to a beige, brown etc.

8000 said:

Blacks are only different in the colour of their skin. This is because of where they were raised. Long exposure to the sun causes pigments in the skin to change colour. You know how you get a tan when you go sunbathing? Well it's virtually the same thing except with long enough exposure at a young age (while cells start to grow and duplicate/multiply) this is what makes Black people Black.

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I call it evolution. Changing to their environment over a very long period of time.

That would be correct .

did you ever notice that Black pepple do not get sunburns?

Blacks are only different in the colour of their skin. This is because of where they were raised. Long exposure to the sun causes pigments in the skin to change colour. You know how you get a tan when you go sunbathing? Well it's virtually the same thing except with long enough exposure at a young age (while cells start to grow and duplicate/multiply) this is what makes Black people Black.

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Actually, when earth was one super continent, people originated in what is Africa. They were black. People go LIGHTER because of a lack of exposure to the sun. It was their way to adapt to the surroundings. (In hot places, they are black to absorb the heat and reflect the rays, in colder places the light skin would blend with the snow and such.)

8000 said:

Blacks are only different in the colour of their skin. This is because of where they were raised. Long exposure to the sun causes pigments in the skin to change colour. You know how you get a tan when you go sunbathing? Well it's virtually the same thing except with long enough exposure at a young age (while cells start to grow and duplicate/multiply) this is what makes Black people Black..

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That is so untrue. Black humans were the original humans. That has been proven. However, their pigment did change to a lighter color due to the face that once they moved to new locations such as Europe, they found more shade and eventually lost their dark color and became lighter. Other aspects that changed WAS evolution like height, eyes, build, etc. The birth place of the human race is in Northern Africa...Earth-wise anyway. I honestly believe humans aren't from Earth and if they are from Earth. Where is the missing link you ask? They have been discovered or at least, their bones were discovered. They had a Discovery Channel Special on this.
Animals to this day also are living proof of evolution...the dogs. There are many different breeds of dogs. All the dogs that are considered "house dogs" are dogs that were originally bread to do a certain task and as the generation of that dogs doing that same task, they evolve so they can better fit the job. Each dog breed that are now is becasue our ancestors used their ancestors for certain tasks.

About the fact that our genetic make-up showing that we are all related because our "earliest ancestors" weren't in great numbers, supposedly just Adam and Eve (noted that this was discovered in 1995). Another experiment shows that that shortage of Humans was during the earlier of the ice ages humans have lived through. These researchers also discovered that that ice age killed 99% of the human population at the time during the duration of the said ice age. These researchers discovered that human DNA actually tells the story of human existance and that the human race started in great numbers, half of today's population. Then, their population began to grow until it was about the same population as now but then, there was a major bottle neck in the data showing that many humans died. From there, it grows back to what it is today. I think this was discovered in 1998 and was shown in several magazines and there was a special on it on the Discovery Channel.

First of all, Adam and Eve did have offspring and those offspring did mate with each other and so on until there were a lot of people. We aren't all ******** because everything was perfect in the world until Adam and Eve sinned. After they got kicked out of Eden, they started breeding and had offspring. Sin hadn't had enough time to take place and develop diseases like mental defects and such (AIDs wasn't created until the first affair happened). The first humans lived in the lower regions of the middle east, by the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

The story after the flood actually predicts perfect conditions for an ice age, but instead of lasting millions of year, it lasted a few hundred or a little over a thousand, somewhere around there. If you don't know the story of Noah, I will tell it-

God was disappointed with what man had done in the early years of their existence, there were only a family of believers left- Noah, his 3 sons, their wives, and his wife. So God told Noah to build the ark and he did and then God flooded the Earth and it rained for 40 days and nights. When the water dried and Noah's family came out, it was their job to repopulate the Earth(each man had a wife of course, no more risk of ***********). Noah planted a vineyard and then drank some wine and became drunk, then he lay down naked in his tent. One of Noah's sons saw him naked and told his bros, so they put a blanket on their father without looking at him. So Noah cursed his son, and sent his 3 sons out and they started families.

The curse said that the son would work for his bros and be a slave. I think that by doing so, he was out in the fields and his family eventually darkened so that he was black, and then they moved to Africa. The other brothers were blessed and filled the Earth.

If we are all just a random act of the universe, aren't your thoughts random? How can you be sure that what you are thinking is true if your random nerves are transmitting random thoughts to your random brain which gives off random output? Wouldn't it make more sense to just say that nothing is right and everything is right? Oh no, there goes my random thoughts again...

As I've been lead to believe, the Bible was only there to explain what couldn't be explained. I don't at all believe what the Bible says, what the Torah sayes, what the Koron sayes. Your supposed to use them as guidelines but see the stories and preaching to God as fiction. Most of the stories never really happened like Noah's Ark. Other stories did actually happened but they were juiced up to make it magical. And the Bible HAS been proven wrong many times in the past. At one point, It actually stated the the Earth was the center of the Universe, that it was flat, that the moon and sun revolved around the Earth and that God created everything. All of this has been proven wrong (although some people still believe in Creation when there is evidence on the table supporting Evolution and the Big Bang...and the Rubberband Theory and my modified RB Theory.). Also, complete study on the story of Moses, most of the plagues and the Parting of the Red Sea were actually caused by a tragic Volcanic eruption gone wrong on an Island off the Coast of Egypt in the Mediterrainean which is connected to the Red Sea. The Volcanic Eruption was scaring a lot of creatures to Egypt, some lava rocks actually reached Egypt. When is was time to cross the Red Sea (actually, it was the most shallow and narrow part of the Red Sea), the Volcano collapsed into the Mediterrainean and a super tsunami went through the Red Sea, first, pulling back the water, making it look like the waters were parting and leaving a path to cross (the Hebrews crossed it at that time...running since the Egyption charietes were on their tails), then as the Egyptians began to cross, the giant tsunami finally rose and swept them away. Other parts of Egypt were hit by the wave as well. Also, these researchers that found this out traveled to MT. Sinai but found no marks the Bible stated were left there (12 stones, imprint of the "15...*oops! Droped one tablet* (Anyone seen History of the World Part 1?)"...10 commandments). They travelled north and found those marks on another mountain 200 miles North of MT. Sinai. (My source for this a documentary on the Discovery Channel.) My point is that you can't believe the Bible, Torah, etc. because there are tons of physical and mental evidence against it...plus they really weren't ment to be taken seriously. Science is ment to be taken seriously. Religious Ideas were preached but never proven. Science has been proven to be right.

Crimson King said:

Actually, when earth was one super continent, people originated in what is Africa. They were black. People go LIGHTER because of a lack of exposure to the sun. It was their way to adapt to the surroundings. (In hot places, they are black to absorb the heat and reflect the rays, in colder places the light skin would blend with the snow and such.)

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Tell that to the KKK.

8000 said:

That would be correct .

did you ever notice that Black pepple do not get sunburns?

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Actually, this is false. Black people DO get sunburns. Just not as easily.

I have tons of black friends from marching band. They never had a sun burn in 5 months of heat in South Louisiana.

Pretty much in my experience, Sunburns don't happen with black people.

A quick Google search will reveal that black people do in fact get sunburns, although it is pretty rare. They require a lot more sun exposure for it to happen.

I have only ever known one black guy who got sunburnt, but it's not like I go around asking people or anything.

awesomestnerd said:

That is a very good observation Mr. Zenkin. Everything has to come from something. 1) We are all descendents from Adam and Eve, which God created on the 6th day.

"Researchers suggest that virtually all modern men- 99% of them, says one scientist- are closely related genetically and share genes with one male ancestor, dubbed "Y chromosome Adam." We are finding that humans have very, very shallow genetic roots which go back very recently to one ancestor....That indicates that there was an origin in a specific location on the globe, and then it spread out from there." (U.S News & World Report, December 4, 1995)

If you say that evolution is logic, just because you don't believe in God or the Bible, that doesn't mean that creation isn't logic. Creationists look at the world and say, look how delicate our universe is, there must be a plan for all this, it can't be random. Evolutionists look at the world and say, there can't be a god, man just made up morals and ethics, we have to be random and made from logic.

You don't have to believe in 2) God to believe in creation, you can believe in an alien who made us. The fact remains that the world is too precious and unique to be random. True, creationism usually refers to God, but that is because the Bible makes sense and fits with nature.

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1) So we are all inbreds? So Adam and Eve's children reroduced with each other? Did they have 5 heads or somthing?

Yes, I do believe we are all linked together genetically in someway, but not with Adam and Eve. More like the first ameaba that oozed onto land and went threw osmosis. We have just as much evidence for Adam and Eve's existance as that we do with Harry Potter.

2) ... Which is implying that this alien would be God, one way or another. Wether you call him the 'Great Creator' or 'The Creator', they both are refering to God.

Although I don't think this has been posted yet, for those of you who argue, 'How can there be no God? If a tornado blows through a junkyard, will the scrap medal for to make a computer?', no, it would not make a computer.

Then again, the universe is not a computer. It is not composed of wires, metal, and plastic, but of subatomic matter (which cling to eachother). Atoms cling to eachother. Look it up anywhere.

Maybe it's not necessarily Adam and Eve that were the first humans our ancestors had to have reproduced with themselves to create more offspring. Everyone has to come from the same bloodline as their ancestors because what else do we have sex with?

If you've ever looked into Egyption or Greek history they married their brothers and sisters and had children. They didn't all become ******* you know. It's only a chance the child will become mentally challenged but it's not a certin thing.

8000 said:

Maybe it's not necessarily Adam and Eve that were the first humans our ancestors had to have reproduced with themselves to create more offspring. Everyone has to come from the same bloodline as their ancestors because what else do we have sex with?

If you've ever looked into Egyption or Greek history they married their brothers and sisters and had children. They didn't all become ******* you know. It's only a chance the child will become mentally challenged but it's not a certin thing.

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Maybe humans were once born pregnant, like on the "new" godzilla movie..

And yeah, I forgot about that inbread thing... thanks for correcting me. But I still say the chances are that at least one of their children's children would be somewhat disabled. Maybe, when we were evolving from whatever (taking it that evolution is real), we were born pregnant. Or maybe we had more then one child at once. I dunno...

Well even if we were born pregnant at one point or another that changed into what we need to do now and that changed a long time ago.

The Adam and Eve concept owuld imply incestuous relationships, and inevitable horrible mutations and deformities. Already, this concept seems insubstantiated.

Regarding the argument on whether or not to just end the debate with the conclusion of agreeing to disagree. The fact is, only one is more true. You cannot say one is perfectly equally justified to the other because that is not true in itself. Like I've mentioned earlier, epistemic evidence has little to do with the argumentative soundness of a standpoint. The fact is that Creationism defense is complete and utter BS. to me. I have yet to see a creationist properly set up a logical argument for Creationism. Second, Evolution and Big Bang Theory does have tangible reinforcement to its argument. (i.e. the Sun , cosmic wave tests, celestial body tracks, and coherence theory truth test.) So please don't say that there's little to argue for, that's basically saying that life doesn't exist because you have no proof that your alive. Hence the nature of a theoretical debate, what is more logically supported is obviously the victor. Creationists lost, they're done, they got nothing. Ignorance is not bliss, our freaking entire existance is based upon the fact that man went against that theory. You lobsters are bliss when they don't know why they're being boiled alive? You think dogs are bliss when they don't know why someone will take them in and they get put down? Knowledge is power, it is the apex of survival adaptation that has enabled us to transcend beyond the visceral animals and make us capable of even understanding things unfathomable to them. That fact that I'm continuing a path for truth satisfies better than sticking to outmoded, flawed, and equiovcal systems of beliefs. Life sucks, deal with life without stupid crutches.

Back then, there were no air creatures, there were no ground creatures. So the only danger directions were forward, left, right, and behind. Climate changes wouldn't be effective in regions around the equator, and most likely, that's where ground life formed. Seasons wouldn't compromise the organisms' lives too consistently in the temperate climates.

Organisms don’t think about evolution, ever. They don't figure it out. The majority of the cells die and those who lived changed because of some reason apart from their non-existent sentience. A major conceptual flaw of people viewing Evolution is that they think it's only dealing with a select few organisms, all calculating on how to survive better. It's not, its billions of organisms with countless of years dying by trial and error, and those who live, pass on their genetic mutations. Those who do not evolve luckily, die. A perfect example is the good majority of creatures today, they did not develop their brain to the extent of ours, so we're slowly crushing all of them.

Example to elucidate my statement, small little yellow bugs give birth to ugly gray bugs, because of the incestuous relationships, all yellow bugs get eaten because they're so **** visible. Grey bugs live on to reproduce. No thought process involved in here.

The flaw in the argument of always looking for the origins of something is just a continual path to finding the origins of those origins and so on. So if X created the universe (where X could be deity or scientific phenomena) then what created X? Logically, certain principles must have always been. That is a given, just think about it and you'll realize that something must've been arbitrarily existent since the unfathomable dawn of time. In essence, there is no beginning or an end for the origins. Because X must've have always been here to create the universe, or Y must've have always been here to create X to create the universe; etc...
The argument Big Bang Theorists make is that matter is the X factor and that the vacuum fluctuations are perfectly feasible and rational.

Here's my timeline to see if you can see my logic.

1. Prior universe collapses, entire universe compacted into a quantum singularity (much like a neutron star) because of immense gravitational pull.

2. After enough potential energy is built up, an explosion of insane a proportion develops, nuclear fusion occurs during this explosion, creating the 90 natural elements.

3. Over an enormous amount of time, certain dispersed matter collects in various regions, forming massive matter bodies. Some more mass full bodies create stars, others create planets, moons, and meteors.

4. Compounds reacting with a myriad of permutations, eventually, amino acid is formed, starts chain reaction and creates a polypeptide chain. Lengthy polypeptide chain breaks into smaller ones, interacting with each other chemically.

5. Polypeptide body consumes the resources around it, creates a larger version of itself, via accommodation, forms primitive cell. (closely related to a virus)

6. Single cellular organism forms, cell splits and multiplies. Different derivatives of mother cell exposed to different environments. Variety of singular cellular organisms formed. Those cells are that are formed and kept more closely to each other have less of a chance of dying, isolated cells get eliminated.

7. Multicellular bonds form between the surviving the cells and form multicellular organisms.

8. Specialization of cells occur to accommodate certain environmental changes, no longer just a blob of cells.

9. Creatures are formed; creatures explore the ocean. Carnivores created because life is more readily available now to consume, all these resources concentrated in one spot.

10. Those creatures with an affinity for land but still live in the sea have a less chance of dying. Plants drifted to shore by tides create amphibias plants.

11. Amphibias plants become purely land based, providing an oxygen source into the atmosphere. Atmospheric balance under way. (CO2 plentiful) Amphibias creatures come to the surface and can use their cellular respiration on the oxygen from the surface at lot better than in the ocean. after many years of plants forming on the surface.

12. Land creatures are born, thrive off of land resources, amphibias creatures hunt in ocean and rest on the earth.

13. Amphibians get so populated that carnivorous organisms develop on the land and can live on the land without going into the water. Reptiles form. Those that stay in the ocean, learn to the adapt to the threats of amphibians and water based life, but continue to survive.

14. Dinosaurs begin, after millions of years of plants spreading themselves across the continent and living off each other and the massive CO2 gas bodies. After millions of years with dinosaurs, small reptiles develop a skin abnormalities and extensions.

15. Dinosaurs develop, plants develop, flying dinosaurs develop, reptiles with mutated skin extensions develop their extensions to hair, capable of surviving the changing climates in certain parts of the world.

16. Dinosaurs die from meteor; mass resource dependency kills off dinosaurs. Mammals, plants, reptiles, amphibians, and fish learn to cope with lack of resources. Mammals develop to primates, mammoths, and other creatures. Australopithecines appear.

17. After recovery and continual global warming, huge glaciers melt and desalinate the North Atlantic Current. Ice Age begins. (go watch Day After Tomorrow) Before, Homo erectus and Homo habilus have come and gone, replaced by Neanderthal in the Ice Age climate, and the unaffected climates develop Cro magnons.

18. Neanderthals die out, Cro Magnons develop the brain and learn to survive after Ice Age quells.

19. Cro Magnon creates Homo Sapiens in the temperate and tropical climate of Africa, organization has already been underway. tribes split and migrate for more resources.

20. Humanity spreads throughout the world. The rest is history.

How's that for logically sound theory as opposed to incessant ramblings of crazed zealots? Agreeing to disagree is a noncommittal approach to something that needs to be addressed. Beating around the bush with a social taboo is no way to better our understanding of it.

If you've ever looked into Egyption or Greek history they married their brothers and sisters and had children. They didn't all become ******* you know. It's only a chance the child will become mentally challenged but it's not a certin thing.

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Actually, a few Egyptian pharoahs were mutants. One we learned about was a male but with extremely femine features. Soft eyes, low shoulders, everything was of a female, but he was male.

And I think his mother or something was a woman with Masculine features.

The Bible says plenty about the universe, and it is all correct. Try looking up material before blindly stating false information.

1. The Bible reveals the Earth is round
The Scriptures tell us that the earth is round- "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth"(Isaiah 40:22). The word translated "circle" here is the Hebrew word chuwg, which is also translated "circuit" or "compass" (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched-not something that is flat or square.

2. The Bible speaks about atoms
Only in recent years has science discovered that everything is made up of things we can't see- atoms. In Hebrews 11:3, it tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear".

3. Creation covers all 5 aspects of control in the universe
Science expresses the universe in 5 terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 perfectly revealed such truths to the Hebrews: " in the beginning (time) God created (power) the heaven (space) and the earth (matter).....And the Spirit of God moved (motion) upon the face of the waters." The first things that God tells man is that he controls all aspects of the universe.

I believe I've covered the whole situation on incest but here goes again.....
The children of the children of Adam and Eve wouldn't be mutated and deformed because the evil and bad things hadn't taken hold yet. Adam and Eve's children probably would have mated at say 16 or 18 years after the Fall. The first death was at the Fall so that was the second bad thing that had happened. Things such as STD's and deformities hadn't had time to come into being because sin hadn't been around for long. After those children had children, they wouldn't have to marry their siblings, but maybe like their cousins. There is less of a chance with cousins because they aren't as genetically close as siblings. After the next generation, they could mate with aunts, uncles, second cousins, or others. There is even less of a chance, and by then, there is a lot of people since they all had long lives ( Adam lived for over 500 years). Proving even that sickness hadn't taken effect.

Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

I'm officially stepping out of this argument. The idea of aiming for a perfect afterlife sounds nice and all but quite stupid. Heaven and such were created by people who feared the inevitable.

Keep in mind that the Bible has been updated countless times before, due to the scientist proving it wrong. Thats the modernized Bible. The Original Bible Version didnot state those things (the Adam and Eve were in the original but those things weren't known yet).
As I recall the Adam and Eve story, Adam and Even only had 2 sons and one of them killed the other one (Cain I believe his name was). I don't recall the Bible stating that they had more children although it did state other Humans began to show up. Where did they come from? Zapped from nowhere it would seem. Its also impossible for a human to live 500 years. The Bible stated that, I think it was Isaac, lived to 200 and that Abraham's gave birth at the age of 90 years because angels told her she was pregnant. I've noted that the Bible and the Torah have tons of super exaggerations but than again, they are just meant to explain life better, using their imaginations and not meant to be non-fiction. Infact, Religion only exists to explain life until the true answer is proven. A lot of people seem to have forgotten that little detail about religion. Religion is only romantic and reassuring, not logic and fact, unlike science. Many Religions die out thanks to science. Science, on the other hand, is meant to be taken as fact. It is true that some Science has been proven wrong but not from religion...never from religion. Some Science Discoveries have been proven wrong by *gasp* Science. Religion is only useful in maintain a slight order from people doing wrong...then again...What is right and what is wrong? What is Good and what is Evil? Depends on the being! Now...What is the meaning of Life? The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism. Easy but What meaning does life have? This is an unanswered question that Religion can only fill in an answer (not give the actual answer) but Science can't answer well...That's a first! Anyways...All that religion BS sounds very nice and reassuring but face the facts...! Its nothing but BS created by Humans and I'm sick and tired of everything revolving around it. Its not even a necessity in Life! It doesn't contribute to life and honestly makes people just look stupid and brainwashed.

Its funny but theirs an old prophecy stating that if every human converts to Christianity, God will send a monster on the Earth to destroy all the humans (yes, I do mean God and not Satan) and Jesus will come down in armour and weapons (Sword, Shield, Bow and arrows, etc.) to fight the monster but will lose and the human race will be destroyed!

I dont know if this was said at all yet but how can you not believe in evolution. All the scientific facts are there. It has been proven. Has god been proven to be real? No there is no evidence of his existence.
In my opinion religion = organized ignorance.

Just a thought but I wonder if t is possible that both can be right and wrong. For example that all of the energy that started the Big Bang in the first place was created by God which over time would create the world that we live in today. That is not to say that this may or many not be true but hey its a theory and it sounds more reasonabl than believe that humanity goes throug constant inbreeding to get where it is today since many people would be disfigured and it would also contradict the bible which says inbreeding is wrong. Hmmm then again what do I know never really decided to look up all of the facts since alot of them would result in questions about orgin which is infinite.

If you don't have a formulated opinion, please don't post.

There is no theory behind religion. There is no answer to the why of Christianity, there is no answer to the why a monotheistic deity created the universe, that is the whole in it, not only superficial flaws of each organized faith, but the actual fundamental properties are enigmatic and obscured. The given for religion is that God exists and God can do anything he wants because he can. God punishes those who do not share his opinion, the unbaptized children are condemn to burn in hell, those baptized that seek for other enlightenment also get sent to hell if they don't unconditionally believe in an intangible power will help them out. Bible's discredited, its basically a collection of parables and nothing more. That's not good enough for me, and that's why religion is fundamentally flawed.

Considering mal-deformities of genetic error cannot be discarded as "evil and bad things." What the he**, you cannot use a Deus ex Machina like that. Not only is that the cheap way out, but it doesn't even logically make sense, the minute Adam and Eve were kicked out, all the **** settled in. Genetic mutations don't settle in, it just appears. And also, awesomenerd, every quotation you made was paraphrase, all of which was your own interpretation of very general concepts established in the Bible. The whole reference to "thing we cannot see" or earth and space can be related back to early eastern philosophy, its all general and basic philosophic ground tied into the religion. And for you synthesis people, you can't both be irrational and rational simultaneously. It's contradictory in nature. Either admit the fact that Creationism is unsubstantiated blind faith, regardless of how many times you discredit evolutionism, or admit to the logical strife of scientific nature. Sure it feels good to have something to look forward to post mortem, and if you can't progress beyond that, stay where you are. But the fact that I'm still striving for truth gives me motivation to live.

I'm rather frustrated as to why one would stick to religion as a crutch. Does it make you feel good to be loved by God? Do you feel safe with God's presence; have respect for yourself? Do you feel unified and in tune with fellow followers? Do you feel you can cleanse the world of sin and impose your righteousness upon others? Well that's exactly how people in Germany felt during 1933-45 when the Nazis took power. You basically have a straight out totalitarian regime. Understand that I'm berating Christianity at this point because there's a difference between extracting the moral principles that have good intent, but at the same time, showing discretion for yourself and preventing yourself from arguing the infallibility of the faith.

Treat organized faith like a good book, learn from it, then move on. Faith is basically a well conceptualized collection of parables used to apply to everyday situations.

No, unfortunately evolution doesn't agree with creation. Creation says the world was created in 6 days and each day something different was made. Evolution says that there was an explosion of life and it took millions of years to develop into what we have today.

You say that there is a bunch of scientific info on why evolution is evident, yet I keep coming up with information on why creation is evident, then you come back and say I am a silly boy and man made up God.

For the last time, God is all around us, he is evident in nature, how can you not see that there is a god?
Also, lets stop asking those same two questions over and over.

Creation does require faith, just as evolutionism requires faith. You have faith in everything, like the chair you are sitting on. You have faith that the person who built it was competent and it won't break while you are sitting on it.

Basically what I'm saying with my position on deformities is that they could never exist in a perfect world. The world was perfect until the Fall, and then after the Fall sin started setting in, like a poisonous cloud of gas. The poison took a while to spread, as it spread from one point. After everything spread, it only started taking effect so it was slow to come into action. By then, the earth had already been populated and had been spread out pretty far, so people lived for a long time and deformities didn't happen. Then it started to kick in and people started living for less time (there were enough people so nobody was too closely related).

You interpret scientific evidence as evolution and randomness, I interpret it as creation and design. The Bible concurs with my interpretation and the pieces fall into place.

I was sent this thread through my buddy 8000, and I thought I wuld add my 2 cents; well maybe 3.

I've looked around and tried to be things that I now find unbelievable, Punk, catholic, Wiccan, etc. and now a lot of this stuff about faith versus evolution is just getting annoying, seeing as I attend an art school full of copies of the same person. 95% of them own Chucks, pentagrams, pentacles, Black Eyeliner, fishnets, I think you get the point.

Defying religion is now a phase and is now considered cool in underground culture. its like looking down Queen Street in Toronto and seeing 7 out of 10 people walking sporting a Che Guevare shirt, with studs. Another example is the landing on the moon conspiracy. Its not something that can be spoken of without having what I would call the Dependant Independant (hence my name) come and talk, reciting books about, oh I dunno, The state of Africa, or poverty in the USA, without honeslty knowing what they are talking about.

I have no problem with any religion; I think God in the bible has issues and is a bit self-concious, but it's a book. My problem is the followers. The teachings can teach proper morals for whatever culture you live in, but its humanity. Religion should unify us, not separate. And even if humans were united, we're "only human". Someone will be jealous of the church (lets pretened the whole world accepts catholic faith), and will yearn for power. They will try to overthrow whose inpower, and people will once again be divided.

Anyway, Post onward.

I'm not sure what any of that had to do with the topic at hand.


Anyway, awesomestnerd has a point, you have to have faith in creationism and likely you have "faith" that scientist have real proof. To me, if a God is defined by a creator, then man is a god. Man creates things everyday and since man created the bible as we know it and basically wrote what we know about God. Therefore, Man created God so mankind is God.

Makes the most sense to me, but hey, I am still working on my belief systems, if anyone wishes to discuss that IM/PM me, I keep religion like that as personal as possible.