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The Fox Video & Critique Thread - READ OP.

chaos_Leader

chaos_Leader

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For Mace:

He could really stand to play a more aggressively. But to do that, he first needs to train his fingers and muscle memory to really be comfortable wielding Fox. A lot of the time Mace doesn't seem entirely sure of himself, or holds back when an opportunity presents itself. If your fingers aren't comfortable using a character, you can't really build an effective strategy or a set of tactics.

In a nutshell:
More practice, then more ballsy tactics.

Edit:
I recently played a few matches against my brother, training up his Marth. It may not be among the best opponents I've gone up against, and I am not without me own mistakes, but it is an accurate showcase of how my Fox functions. I'm also trying out a few new maneuvers myself in there, apparently to good effect. See for yourself:

1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mITP1u2idws&fmt=18
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmj5vNMDtOg&fmt=18
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M8ecZj9GDI&fmt=18
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vPODywWplI&fmt=18
5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSnq8J3EPe4&fmt=18
6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRQQ633A99o&fmt=18
7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0pnkwPT4fU&fmt=18
 
Adamated

Adamated

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no bad at all, looks like you've got a knack for illusion cancelling. All i can really say is Autocanceld fair, and rising fair, that last edgehog may not have happened if you rising fair'd.

Thats just my 1/2 cent
 
oOTjayOo

oOTjayOo

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Adamated said:
no bad at all, looks like you've got a knack for illusion cancelling. All i can really say is Autocanceld fair, and rising fair, that last edgehog may not have happened if you rising fair'd.

Thats just my 1/2 cent
Click to expand...
My Jump was gone for some reason.
 
dawall250

dawall250

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Messages
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Hey all, so my friend finally put up some vids of my fox. I think it's gotten a decent bit better since then (my tech ability with fox was craaaap, but oh well), but I'd still like to hear what you guys have to say.

Against Yoshi (I get *****): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owBdfMO_BpY
Against Snake (this might be the best one to watch, since its my friend's main, and I don't get totally wrecked): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzNBRkLQgYc
Against Marth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXLd69ZNGfU

Thanks!
 
JNB328522

JNB328522

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Thats fine The main reason why I want to update this thread is to organize a little bit more and put TKD vids in there
I have the time
 
JigglyZelda003

JigglyZelda003

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xIblisx said:
It finally uploaded :)

Critique would be nice since it's my first serious match in a while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAjUjgRcMXI
Click to expand...
idk too much about Yoshi cause i haven't realy fought any but...

i can say that you must watch your Usmashes my dear. the Yoshi baited them alot of the time. during the first life it seemed as if you tried to force them as well.

when returning to the ground you mostly AD or Dair. i think Yoshi caught on to that and tried to bait your reaction. i suggest FF Nair and away sometimes just to throw them off.
 
C.R.Z

C.R.Z

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since you went out of your way iblis, ill watch it :)

ill post critique in this post.

Edit:

ok, first thing i noticed, your not utilizing fox's speed nearly enough. as you know fox has amazing speed, on the ground and in the air, use that to your advantage. watch TKD more closly at how he uses fox's speed or (without sounding too much like a ****) watch my vids, ill post one when im done. dont stay in the same spot for too long, use that time you have to zone yourself into a better position, make your your not just a sitting target.

more short hopping, less upsmashing. i know its tempting to try and go for the upsmash but you have to have faith, fox's strings will lead to kills, you dont have to worry about getting the kill off by one hit.i noticed you double jump/full hop alot. full hopping/double jumping is best for cross ups or evasive tactics (TKD tactics lol).they are used to get the hell out the way, not necessarily to go offensive.you have your autocancels down, so just use it with short hop more often, dont be afraid go in with the short hop auto cancels, you have very little to be worried about.

practise your lazer techs.tripple lazer is great but takes time to get it off consistantly.you were doing alot of double lazers but they wernt used as effective as possible.start doing single lazers instead, they allow you to keep mobile, adujust zoning, be more acurate and overall gives you more options defensivly if you get too close.Tripple lazer> single lazer> double lazer

Before going any further, decide what kind of fox do you want to be. do you want to be a CQC kind of fox which uses auto cancels and grabs to overwhelm your opponent with strings and speed or do you want to be a defensive/evasive fox (TKD) and chip damage off with lazers and then punnish approaches. in the end you can be both, but pick one to start with, then you can decide what to work on first.

grabs are really good, they make your opponent play defensive, mix up your JJC with grabs to control the pace of the match, good if you want a stable CQC.dont be afraid to rush your opponent.stop using drills so much btw, you dont need to use it that much, players will eventually see your patterns and punnish you alot. try doing nair while going downwards after a short hop.it will allow you to do a JJC on sheild safely into a grab.

everything else is just practise, like your sheilding, powershielding and spot dodging, just play more and it will come.


this vid is not perfect but it will do to show a CQC fox (close quaters combat). i didnt get time to incorperate shine into my gameplay before this tourney and not many off my vids were recored but this will do.CQC fox's can do well in match ups such as olimar, wario and ..well.. yoshi lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJv1B1YPC-w


hope i helped and didnt sound like a prick :/
 
Conviction

Conviction

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Look up Delux Sunshine Combo. Same concept. You can Nair>JJC>Grab on most shields. Especially tether grabbers, Zelda, Mario, Ganon, CF, and ICs.
 
C.R.Z

C.R.Z

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crifer said:
Nair has to be fast falled or not? jjc needs to be buffered, right?
Click to expand...
yes fast falled.it might work normally depending how far off the ground you are. im not sure if JCC needs to be buffered, most likely not.
 
NeverKnowsBest

NeverKnowsBest

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Lol I have just been busy with school. If someone reposts all the videos they believe are important to the OP I will update it later because I am currently uploading other smash videos today =3
 
JNB328522

JNB328522

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NeverKnowsBest said:
Lol I have just been busy with school. If someone reposts all the videos they believe are important to the OP I will update it later because I am currently uploading other smash videos today =3
Click to expand...
ok

TKD tournament vids

Grand finals TKD vs Tryrant (mk) round 1
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/82/nWnSweQB1SI

Grand finals TKD vs Tryrant (mk) round 2
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/81/tx5M7KdIdB4

Grand finals TKD vs Tryrant (mk) round 3
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/80/NZJD6uw3z5o

Grand finals TKD vs Tryrant (mk) round 4
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/79/4impzhIP4Fw

Winner finals TKD vs Tyrant (mk) round 1
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/41/t-fWvBXp8x4

Winner finals TKD vs Tyrant (mk) round 3
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/40/58fKqrP7mmw

Winner finals TKD vs Tyrant (mk) round 5
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/39/PP9vxGWX3dI

TKD vs DEHF (falco) round 1
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/89/u6O7jafYP-I

TKD vs DEHF (falco) round 2
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/88/mMTBkIMcxVw

TKD vs DEHF (falco) round 3
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/87/BPXEpHwIb8U

Loser finals TKD vs Chudat (kirby)
http://www.youtube.com/user/2GoodGaming#p/u/66/dpZaRjR8ikI

It felt kind strange that we have all these fox vids but dont have any TKD vids
who is considered to be the best fox
 
Lightning93

Lightning93

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chaos_Leader said:
These two are against a Falco I met recently.
Click to expand...
Okay here's what I'm noticing as I watch.

First Match:

I'm a little confused as to why you're sending out Nairs so early, and at the start of a Full Hop as well... Although it's true late Nair can lead into some promising combos, personally I would rely on a move more dependable to rack up early damage such as up-tilt. Up-tilt is excellent for many reasons, it hits on frame 3, can chain into itself, spaces well, and can be used from a SHAD. But you probably already know this.

Secondly, if you ever have watched TKD play, it is important to see how it is possible to outcamp Falco. You have SHTL which can be used immediately into shine which can be canceled by a roll/jump etc... You were doing a pretty consistent job of dodging Falco's lasers, but you need to be able to force pressure back onto him as well.

Oh, I saw you get spiked out of that CG. I also saw how you already knew how to rise your Fair, so just be sure to always use rising Fair after getting spiked. It gives the opponent less time to hog the edge or set up another gimp, while making recovering much easier for you. With added height, you have the luxury of shine stalling while your opponent's invincibility frames from grabbing the ledge are counting down.

As for your use of Fsmash, I would like to commend the move itself as a great move for punishing. However, personally, I would limit its use to the punishing of spotdodges or if you know that your opponent is trying to approach with a grab. Otherwise, f-tilt works in all other situations with a higher chance of success and a better possibility of not getting punished in return.

Last thing, don't be afraid to gimp Falco! I noticed that whenever you tried to attempt an offstage kill, it was merely be hogging the ledge. That's fine to establish a mindset that forces your opponent to recover onstage, but once this happens, feel free to Dair Falco out of his phantasm.

Otherwise great job! I'm having trouble viewing the second video as of now, but if you still would like comments on it I'll be happy to come back!
 
chaos_Leader

chaos_Leader

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I don't actually plan out most of my game. I've gotten to a point in my game where my muscle memory already knows how to do a great many things by itself, and my brain just guides the fingers in a general direction through the match. I personally know for a fact that where I need improvement the most is in the "Smash Psychology", getting my head more in the game.

Sometimes I make mistakes.
My finger slips, I hold down a button too long, the control stick points in the wrong direction, the list goes on...
As great a thing as perfection is, it sometimes gets missed in the heat of the match. I've just habituated myself over time to not get hung up on little mistakes, roll with the punches, and make the best of whatever situation I find myself in.

Of all the characters I've played against, Falco is consistently the most control-freaky of the bunch, and always a satisfying challenge to thwart.
This Falco, if I decide to out-camp him with shine, likes to top off his SHDLs with a DACUS slide into my face. Weaving through his laser spam was a tactical choice on my part. When applicable, I prefer to bypass projectile spam and bum-rush my opponent rather than sit there with my reflector on and wait; I've gotten pretty comfortable at it for my part. I'm much more comfortable using a kind of in-your-face pseudo aggressive/punish game than a camp n' spam/wait game.
It's more of a playstyle choice than an issue I think, but thanks for the input all the same.

F-smash: I've found a number of uses for it.
It covers quite a bit of ground for a single input, actually has considerably lower end-lag than the other smashes, knocks the opponent pretty far and has potential for use as a kill move. In all my my time, I have been punished far more often for using U-smash than F-smash (Everyone watches out for the U-smash). It may simply be a psychological thing, as many of my opponent's aren't used to a Fox that uses F-smash and don't have much experience with it. And as great a move as F-tilt is (I do like using it), it simply doesn't cover the distance I sometimes need against my opponents.

N-air: I generally like to use this a little more favorably than D-air.
It's quick, stays out for a while, has near-nonexistent landing lag, and doesn't slow Fox down in the air like F-air does.

I've always been a firm believer that Fox's greatest strengths lie not in an one move or collection of moves, but in Fox's unprecedented mobility; being in the right place at the right time when I need him there.
I think a lot of these issues are playstyle choices or personal precision flubs. Still, thanks very much for your input. I know I operate a little differently than some other Fox mains, and it's good to see where I stand among other Fox players.

Here's a few more matches against other characters if anyone wants a peek:

G&W:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq5MpNDH_K8&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH2XHn147wY&fmt=18 (this one cuts out prematurely, just some forewarning)
Always a fun matchup, Fox vs. G&W

Luigi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH0WB9IiZ88&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPOFIEmrDUs&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GK7F6Zh13U&fmt=18
I was torn between putting up just two, so I put up all three.
 
Conviction

Conviction

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chaos_Leader said:
These two are against a Falco I met recently.
Click to expand...
OK, Chaos Leader! Let's do this! I'm gonna help you, and you are gonna ****, then you will the CASH MONEY!

Match 1

Let me start off by telling what a horrible choice of Fox costume >.<

0:08 - He SHDL and you Full hopped and Naired. A better thing to have done, was to stay back SHTL and Shine his slow lasers. He could not reach you with his DACUS or Illision, because you would have been on the other side of the stage. Since you Full Jumped, you should have shine stalled to see his reaction, seeing that dodgerolled you should have either
A) Dair into him and punish his dodge roll lag
or
B)FF a Nair straight down
or
C) The safest option FF AC Bair into him so if he did shield it you would have frame adv. and be able to move away or jab him/utilt him/grab him

0:13 - Ahhh the CG>Spike. This is what you get for mistake at 0:08. Now since you are already being CG'd and being brought to ledge the Spike is telegraphed. Now I know Light said you can Fair recover for the spike. I have a even better way to avoid recovering. Due temp. set knockback on Falco's Dthrow, when he tries to spike you can do
A) SDI Up and towards Falco so you will hit stage you can tech the landing
or
B) SDI Up and towards Falco and you will end up having to tech the ledge
This Falco I'm assuming doesn't know how to effectively gimp our FireFox (not trying to sound mean) but he should have dropped down and bair'd after the dair.

0:17 - Don't Illision onto stage like that unless you are sure you are safe. Try ledgedrop>Rising Fair to get back on stage. Benefits are verticallly spacing yourself (something Fox is good at) and you could have hit him/made him back away to give you your space, and you will have just made it back onstage.

0:27 - Why? Why did you IA Nair? You used your Fthrow, follow him. He has a bad habit of rolling punish it with Dsmash/Nair/another grab.

Stop spotdodging so much. I know Falco's grab game is good but you are spotdodging like his trying to force a grab on you. You are missing key points to punish or space yourself.

0:35 - Ok when some DIs away when you Dthrow, you need to SH AC Fair/SH Nair/Dash shield grab/Pivot Boost Grab/or just start lasering. You let an opprotunity go by.

0:39 - I'm pointing this out to reinforce my point about your spotdodging problem. You spotdodged a SHL!, not a good idea at all, start learning how to PS Falco's lasers it will make this MU a lot easier, even Shine would have been good in this situtation, cause the laser would have gone back at him and he would have to either Block/PS/Reflect/Dodge the laser keeping you both at a neutral position. You spotdodged and got punished for it with a DACUS. Go to pratice mode learn Falco's grab range and see how far an instant dash grab will go, because it wouldn't have reached you if you did decide to reflect.

0:41 - Don't Dair from that high up when you are in the bad position. He punished you with a ISAP that could have been avioded with some shinestalling.

1:06 - Why did you dodge roll away? You had the advantage, SH AC Uair or SH AC Fair would have stop that Dair.

1:10 - Don't be afraid to edgegaurd Falco, get gimped if we just hit him with a Dair offstage.

1:36 - Good job you read him and Dsmashed and edgegaurded accordingly!

1:40 - Lol that shouldn't have happened >.< why did you do that?

1:51 - Now I know you have Falco right now in on of your strings (good job) but this is where you have to watch out for his CG. This is where you NEED to start playing a little more defensively, so start lasering, use more safe options, Bair/Fair/Ftilt/Grabs/Cross-ups

1:54-1:58 - See this what I am talking about you could have been lasering back, reflecting his lasers, PSing his lasers, but you didn't and you let him get you and now you are back into this CG again.

2:07 - UGH! YOU DID SO WELL RECOVERING! WHY DID YOU ILLISION ONTO STAGE?!?!?!?!?!? *RAGES*

2:12 - No, no, no, no, no, start lasering back. Fox outcamps Falco.

2:15 - Ok I good you punished him but you had better punishing options like SH Dair or a grab.

2:31 - You are falling for his camp game again >.<

2:51 - Never do a falling Fair.

3:15 - YAY!

3:20 - LASER BACK!

3:41- LASER,LASER,LASER,LASER!

4:00 - Lucky >.>

4:06 - You were outta CG % you could have Nair'd him

4:48 - LASERS!!! HAVE EVEN USED A LASER AGAINST HIM?!?!?! I only saw them when you lost your first stock.

Good Match. Enjoyable to watch. Take these critiques and use them well. Go learn what that red button does when you don't touch anything else as Fox XD.

But in all seriousness, take this and some more general basics of Fox and you will be 2-stocking that Falco in no time. Also, lose that spotdodging habit.

This the most I've ever wrote. :psycho:
 
chaos_Leader

chaos_Leader

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xIblisx said:
OK, Chaos Leader! Let's do this! I'm gonna help you, and you are gonna ****, then you will the CASH MONEY!

Good Match. Enjoyable to watch. Take these critiques and use them well. Go learn what that red button does when you don't touch anything else as Fox XD.
Click to expand...
Okay, I hear you: use more lasers.
And I have been making an effort in recent times to integrate the blaster into my game more. It's not an instantaneous transition, it takes time, though I don't ever plan on spamming the blaster TKD style. Just because my Fox isn't TKD's Fox doesn't mean I'm doing it wrong, my Fox is my Fox. I know I have a couple precision flubs to iron out, a couple habits to break, and I need to get my head more into the psychology.

Thanks for the enthusiasm though.
 
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