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Make Your Move 8: -TOP 50 POSTED-

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
Remix!

People asked, people questioned: where are Wizzerd and Kupa666?
Where could they have gone for the month of May 2010?
Why did they only post three times?
People questioned them, but...
The truth is...​

They made a moveset.


Yes, that eponymous couple - Wiz and Kupa - finally
got together in this, what is surely to be one
of the most flowing movesets
with a great playstyle.
And a great writing style
and a great organisation.
In many ways this moveset is a
spiritual successor to Strangelove
and also Zinger, two of the greatest
movesets by each of the two MYMers used
in what shall surely be one of the greatest
reading experiences of your lifetime.

But why wait any longer?
Lets get right into the main statistics.

STATS


So, as you can see, Wizzerd is
even shorter than Luigi - that's pretty short.
Kupa is roughly twice his size, but around the
same width. It should also be noted that both
travel on the same plain and are constantly holding
hands... don't ask why, it just makes sense.

They have average falling speed, walk and run speed
and jumps and mid-air jumps and such and such
no tether, no crawl, a lousy crouch tbh and some very questionable
weight around that of Lucas for Wizzerd and Marth for Kupa:
he may not look it, but Kupa's pure muscle.
Depending on the move you use, you could
end up using either Kupa or Wizzerd in the
front row, which will be stated by the icon after
each move, with either Kupa or Wizzerd's faces.
Kupa has range but Wizzerd has low hitboxes.
Automatically, Wiz is in the front row.
Both characters take knockback, but only
the player character takes damage.

Actually, thinking about it this moveset
is kind of creepy, so I recommend you don't
read this if you're under the age of 12.
*waits for Wizzerd to stop reading*​

SPECIALS
OOooh, indents <3

Neutral Special: Tag​

Whoever is in the front tags the person in the back. This negates any of the tagging done after each move, purely for the sake of playstyle. If ever your opponent thinks he knows which of you is going to be in after a move, use this move with 0.35 seconds of start lag and no end lag. This move can be interrupted during the start lag.

Side Special: ***... Butt Man
Immediately with no lag, Agidius jumps out from the current front row player and starts to dance with this tune playing quietly. Any opponent who moves past Agidius automatically trips and this flows into the throw game [that's a little later ;D]. You cannot roll past or otherwise move past Agi without tripping - you have to jump over him, with him taking about an Ike's space of the platform. There can only be one Agidius out on the stage at any given time.

Down Special: Tether
Oh, I guess they do kinda have a tether...
The person in the front row connects a tether to the person behind them - be it Kupa or Wiz, we don't discriminate here, as it always takes 0.55 seconds of lag to do with some minor end lag - you need to be within 0.5 of a SSB to do this. Once you do this, you won't be separated by the side special. HOWEVER - you can no longer tag in your partner. This has obvious mind game potential, but also flows into his aerial game. Like the butt man, your tether only breaks at the end of a stock. If at any time Wiz & Kupa are more than two SSBs apart off-stage, the tether will activate and pull the inactive member toward the active member until he is on a solid platform.

Upward Special: Jet Boots
Thank you Plorf for the idea.

Whoever is in front gets ROB's recovery for 0.95 of the time ROB does, with the same fuel properties. Unfortunately, if you aren't tethered together, the person in the back will fall to their death, as Wiz and Kupa could only afford one pair or something. This affectively means that if you want to recover you need to tether.

Wiz & Kupa do not have any special smashes unfortunately.

STANDARDS

Jab: Taste Wind
Whoever is in front starts BLOWING with similar effects to Squirtle's water gun, with the visceral-nature dependant on who's in front - Kupa blows foes away by one SSB, while Wizzerd blows them two SSBs, but blows foes taller than he is at 1.75x the speed normally. The speed is about one SSB a second, but the user is static while they blow. Kupa cannot blow Wiz.

Forward Tilt: Kupa Throws
Kupa picks up Wizzerd with a minor 0.35 seconds of start lag and tosses him two SSBs in front of him - he hits once for 16% and this only KOs at extremely high percentages. It can also work as an alright gimp - Wizzerd has a downward arc if thrown off stage and causes constant flinching damage, making for some EPIC gimping KOs. It's also good if you just don't like Wizzerd. :mad:


If Kupa and Wizzerd are separated, this input operates as a taunt to anger the opponent and make them attack you for mindgames.

Upward Tilt: Wanna Balloon?
With a minimal 0.45 seconds of start lag, Kupa hands Wizzerd a balloon... and that's it. Wizzerd now has a balloon and has similar floating properties to Peach - along with his rocket boots, that's quite impressive. However, the main use of this move is that it extends Kupa's time he can carry Wizzerd on piggyback by 1.25x. The balloon has 0.5% of health [that's real] so it's really vulnerable to attacks by foes. :dizzy:


If they're separated, Kupa takes out the balloon with 0.35 seconds of start lag and starts to blow up a balloon in his hand for another 0.25 seconds, before bringing a pin precariously out of his shorts and popping it for a wide, disjointed hitbox that damages for 12% and KOs at around 200%, but causes flinching that lasts for a good 0.5 seconds.

Wizzerd by himself will realise the GRAVE circumstances without Kupa and starts sucking his thumb with 0.45 seconds of start lag, recovering 3% of damage for every second afterward. Wizzerd has a horrible 1.2 seconds of end lag on this by ending it normally by pressing a normal attack input, but can cancel out of it into his grab with as much lag as his grab has! Phew.

Downward Tilt: Inflation
This is where I borrowed moves from Drifblim - thanks again Plorf! :chuckle:

In this move, Wizzerd copies Kupa (like always amirite) and blows up a balloon - his rubber donut-y shaped thingamajig! This input can only be pressed once per five seconds, but blows up Wizzerd to the point that his rubber thing-y is, after the final fifth time, up to four times larger, making it difficult for foes to hit him at all unless by an aerial. This has the opposite effect of the balloon, making it 1.25x as difficult for Kupa to piggyback [eurgh] Wizzerd for every time he blows up his float thing. However, every input also makes Wizzerd's grab 1.2x more difficult to mash out of and 1.5x as floaty - I hear playstyle afoot~! :p


If just Kupa by himself, this operates as a way to hit foes on the ground - with his fsmash, but directed forty-degrees downward with fixed charge of 1.1 seconds and the same damage / horizontal knockback. Yay for mindgames!

SMASHES
This is the point when most people will start skimming. :urg:

Forward Smash: The Circle of Life
If Kupa and Wizzerd aren't together - tethered or not - this move is a generic PAUNCH by whoever is in the front row that deals 25-35% with 2.55-3.1 seconds of start lag and KOs at around 100% - with no unique properties whatsoever. Very hard to hit with, but very good at KOing.

However, if they are together, Kupa picks up Wizzerd by the stomach and puts him on his shoulders, carrying him above. The charge is when you are picking up Wizzerd, the animation being Kupa touching Wiz... that sounds wrong. :(

For every second held, the input translates into 0.75 of the time with Wizzerd on Kupa's back. In this form, Kupa cannot be tripped and has super armour, but can only use moves involving the legs while Wizzerd takes care of any moves involving the arms. This makes them a lot more versatile and flow better of course, but also leads to more disjointed hitboxes and less priority. However, if you are not careful, Kupa can run off the edge and will likely die - he has bad traction in this form, which is usually good btw.


Upward Smash: Throw the Baby!
Kupa, with minimal front-end lag of about 0.35, picks Wizzerd up and throws him from 1-3 SSBs depending on how much you charge. Wiz is a disjointed hitbox that has high vertical knockback for this very telegraphed move, upward on the way up and downward on the way down. If he catches someone on the way down, they will be caught in his rubber donut-y shaped thingamajig and be trapped in his grab for 1.75x as hard button mashing to get out. When caught, there is significant end lag, so don't use this move lightly.

If the two aren't together, then this move is just like the forward smash.


Downward Smash: Naughty Boy!
This move is purely to keep Wizzerd out of the way while Kupa KOs. The charge is when Kupa is again touching Wizzerd - for every second the input is held, the resulting is 0.5x times in seconds. That sounds confusing... So anyway, Kupa starts scolding Wizzerd for 0.65 seconds of lag, from then on the above applies - for that amount of time, Wizzerd sits on the floor holding his head in his hands with visible tears. After the time has elapsed, he will get up and run toward Kupa crying until he reaches him. Throughout all of this, Wizzerd is invulnerable. This basically allows Kupa to use his forward and upward smash to KO.


AERIALS

Neutral Air: Stagnant Air
I think Kupa has gas. :(

A puff of green smoke appears behind whoever is in control that lingers for 1.1 seconds - this deals constant damage to foes of 3% per 0.4 seconds hit, dealing flinching knockback. Its real use is obviously in stopping foes with good aerial manoeuvrability [big word D:] from attacking Wizzerd or Kupa within the confides of this smog. It also destroys projectiles / has infinite priority. :urg:

Forward/Backward Air: Revival!
Behind or in front of Wizzerd or Kupa, depending on the input, their partner will taunt in mid-air! Wow, how useless... but wait! If the other character has been KO'd somehow, they will be revived with 0.85 seconds of lag! This is why your opponent really wants to be on his toes with Wizzerd or Kupa666 in the air. This can only be used successfully once per ten seconds and obviously doing it off-stage is going to kill your partner unless you immediately tether!

Downward Air: Stall 'n' Fall! :psycho:
Put simply, Kupa will start to logically drop right down in lieu of gravity, hitting foes with a severe downward knockback force and 12% damage, falling at the speed of Kirby's down special. He can slow his fall, though, by use of the up special - slowing him 1.25x per 0.5 seconds until he's motionless, with all the same stats of damage and knockback intact until that point. Remember, don't kill Wizzerd!


Without Kupa, this move will turn Wizzerd into Kupa! This takes a good five seconds, though, with each input adding one second - if interrupted - to this counter, until he turns into Kupa with full on temporary invincibility as Kupa bursts out of Wizzerd with blood everywhere! DIE WIZZERD DIE! :mad:


Upward Aerial: ???
Wizzerd or Kupa do the unthinkable - literally. They stop moving, hovering in mid-air with no animation, perfectly still for a maximum of two seconds, or until the input is let go of. This, along with their very hard-to-read aerials that are very powerful, makes them an amazing force in the air. This only effects one member of the tag team, though, so don't use it off-stage. Not that you would, but you've done some stupid things before... :laugh:

THROWS
The grab is just a normal grab that doesn't deserve its own ****ing section god dammit.

Pummel: Rubber Dingy

This pummel is very significant - it's very important to read, okay? Wizzerd starts to move his rubber floaty thingy off of his body, which takes a good 0.35 seconds. If you used the up smash to grab an opponent, this is where the pummel ends and the foe is now in the donut. If not, then it takes a further 0.25 seconds to put it on the foe, with the donut going back on Wizzerd if this fails. Once the donut is on the foe, this input blows up the donut thingy regardless of who it is being controlled, with it being increased in the same manner as Wizzerd's down tilt.


With the donut on the foe, you can then disengage them with minimal end lag. From this point on, they must continue to button mash, taking from 1-3.4 seconds to pop the donut thingy depending on how much you blew it up. While it's on them, they are stuck in a standing position and perfectly open to attack from Kupa's KOing move(s). Once out of the donut, the foe can immediately input, so you gotta be fast! This is where the moveset all comes together! :chuckle:

If you have only Kupa, your pummel is a generic pelvis thrust into the opponent, dealing a typical 2% per 0.5 seconds.

Throws: Catch-And-Release!

Bringing together another part of this moveset, Kupa grabs a Wizzerd who is biting at him childishly and angrily, attaching them to a cartoon-y version of the foe's behind, whereby he then kicks Wizzerd off in a fashion similar to Ganondorf's forward tilt, traveling a similar distance to Kupa's forward tilt. If Wizzerd is carrying a balloon or he or the foe have blown up donut-y things, this obviously effects their trajectory and the foe cannot escape until they mash out.


Without one of the team, this turns into a generic spartan kick without the Wizzerd biting part, with 8% damage and kills at around 200%.

FINAL SMASH
Here ya go Sundance!

Wizzerd and / or Kupa step into the background, as Giant Yoshi appears! He's just like normal Yoshi, but giant and invincible for fifteen seconds!

EXTRAS

The SSE opens as Kupa types on a typewriter for a few seconds. Shortly thereafter, he throws the paper into the air, forming the title screen of the SSE. It is not until much later on that you actually see and play as Kupa and Wizzerd.

Kupa is first playable when Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong first take on the minions trying to steal the banana - after the bullet bills are deflected by the pair, BKupa stumbles out of the forest with the obvious "BKUPA" flashing across the screen. The two Kongs *facepalm* and the party carries on as normal. BKupa is not playable as such, but does assist whichever Kong you play as for as long as they're alive, acting as a sort of permanent tag member - except in boss fights.

The first time you see Wizzerd is when Captain Falcon meets up with Captain Olimar, you see the character [wearing the outfit as seen in the moveset] crying amongst the Pikmin with "WIZZERD" flashing across the screen. Captain Falcon tries to comfort him, but Wiz only pushes him away and weeps louder, until Captain Olimar hands him a flower off of the top of one of the Pikmin and he decides to come along. He is unplayable, however, except that, like Kupa, he helps whoever you are playing as.

Donkey Kong's party meets with Captain Falcon's, exchanging a brief hug before continuing on as a team, with the obligatory "KUPA AND WIZZERD" flashing across the screen. This is really where their little story arc ends, as it would be kind of difficult to give them a boss.

PLAYSTYLE

Now you're finished reading Wizzerd and Kupa, you're probably thinking to yourself, "when is the voting period?" Well, hold your horses bucko! First of all, I need to tell y'all how exactly you play this very versatile and flowing moveset.

Your first objective should be to set up butt man and your neutral air purely to nerf your opponent so you can then set yourself up to the point of actually being viable - Wizzerd and Kupa have a hard time in Smash without some minor set-up, at least. Firstly, you'll want to blow up Wiz's donut as quickly as possible and this means tagging out. Blow him up as much as possible, as this will help out later. Depending on how much time you get, you can either put Wizzerd down with down smash or throw him around some, with out without his balloon. You want to be very careful not to get him killed, however, as you really need him for any chance of KOing.

After set-up and nerfing your foe somewhat with your traps, that's when you move onto damaging - the hardest part of the game for this tag team. You'll want to use lone Kupa's throws and pummel main for damaging, which means getting close / maybe abusing butt man. If not separated, use the forward smash to get the drop on your opponent with the regular forward smash or try and grab them, at which point you can indeed put the donut on them still.

If you can damage your opponent up to that magical 100%, KOing all too easy for the well-prepared Wizzerd and Kupa player. You can even place a fully blown up Wizzerd at the stage side to keep enemies from recovering properly! You are mostly just going to want to grab them, then from there, depending on who you're fighting, you're going to want to either throw them with Wizzerd attached, at any high percentage most likely to their doom or you're going to want to put the donut on them, which is must safer but can be popped.

To KO, you're obviously going for the forward smash first after putting the donut on them, but if you screw up, Wizzerd doesn't get another donut and you're pretty much screwed. At this point, you would be smart to both throw Wizzerd with the forward tilt and use your down air in unison for the ultimate gimping force. Of course, you can also use your jab in an obvious fashion to gimp your opponent's recovery as well, and don't forget your downright broken up special - even with regular Mario stats, it's difficult to KO Wizzerd or Kupa with those.

The tether makes things a little complicated, but can be useful. If you wish to throw Wizzerd as a last shot at gimping, you could always attach a tether as well, but he's useless at that point anyway. What is recommendable is that you throw him, when blown up fully, then let him slowly recoil upward toward you and try to block the edge. This is a tremendous gimp, but actually getting your opponent off-stage while also having a fully blown Wizzerd is very difficult. And lastly, your neutral special is a flincher, so that's obviously useful against recovering opponents.

Remember that the tether cannot be broken - you're stuck with whichever member you choose and Kupa is obviously the one you want in, but if you're tethering, you're practically losing Wizzerd and thus you're going to have a hard time KOing without the donut. It's really best just to use as an absolute last resort if you try to KO, but also want to damage your foe on their new fresh stock. Remember that you can also revive your team mate with your forward or backward air, but this is very difficult.

And that's much you can do with the character, just remember that you're really always going to want to keep them together for as long as possible - abuse that down smash to your liking to get Kupa on his own.

MATCH-UPS

Vs. Axel Gear: 20/80
Against Axel Gear, you may well be screwed, as you have few ways to knock out vertically and the excessive speed of Axel is a trump card to your relative mediocrity. You're going to find it hard to set up with his projectiles and he's going to have all the time in the world to power up his resources to their max.

What you do have to your advantage is that you have several ways to gimp Axel Gear in mid-air with your neutral air which can break projectiles, Wizzerd throws and even your down air may be useful, but Axel Gear has the massive advantage of very good aerial options, which means he can bypass your butt man, neutral air or Wizzerd throws by themselves, so you'll have to get creative to stall him. Remember you can also use your jab to keep his jetpack-flying rat *** off-stage.

If you can somehow get your balloon, throws or donut up to shape, you can put up a fight - grab Axel Gear and throw him into his lightning barrier, or hit him with your forward smash whenever the given opportunity and he'll go down as easy as anyone else. The problem is definitely finding an opening, as his traps are much more powerful than your whimsical, but utterly destructive ones (when used correctly).

Remember that your up special is entirely useless if Axel goes for the vertical KO, but he isn't really supposed to do that anyway. What with how the lightning barrier really emphasizes damaging over knocking out, Axel forces your weakest playstyle out of you.

Vs. Bob-Omb: 100/0
This one's obvious enough - Bob-Omb always KOs himself first, making himself an impossibility. Ignoring that, you really do have quite a good amount of options to avoid his mindgames and super armour by abusing Wizzerd or use of your fully-powered forward smash in tandem with your balloon. With the amount of interupptions you have at your disposal, you can easily stall Bob-Omb and minimize his moveset, as he also lacks any decent aerial game.

Vs. Forretress: 60/40
This is a very interesting match-up, as both need lots of set-up time to work effectively, but Wizzerd and Kupa have the slight edge in being able to actually flinch Forretress and blow away those spikes with jab.

Before anyone asks, no, the spikes cannot pop Wizzerd and Kupa's balloons or donut. Really, this is an alright match-up for the pair - butt man can handsomely go to work on tripping over any stray Pinecos and your neutral air is useful in halting any aerial attack by Forretress, while your aforementioned jab works at pushing him away. In all of this time, you can affectively blow up Wizzerd, give him a balloon or set up however you like, but the problem will be grabbing Forretress.

With your rocket boots, you aren't that vulnerable to horizontal KOs, but those spikes are really going to screw you over if you get near enough to Forretress to grab him, which you will always need to. The fact of the matter is, though, your neutral air can destroy projectiles and those spikes are just going to be worthless while you set up.

Without the spikes, Forretress is as bad as damaging as you are, maybe even worse and you force him to approach, which, with butt man permanently out, you should be able to cut off at least half of one of the platforms. Don't under-estimate him, though - you still need to grab Forretress and you'll run into a lot of spikes this way.​

THIS IS TECHNICALLY A MOVESET + NO VOTE SPLIT = AUTOMATIC TOP TEN!! :chuckle:
 

Neherazade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
359
Location
Gensokyo.
lol fail Smady. Creative, to say the least... but I'm afraid with AP tests gone, I am no longer stalled on my joint set. NO TOP 10 FOR YOU!

Postponed (for ******** reasons, btw) since January... but no more! Ummmm... i'm going to have to comment on some sets first, won't I? ah. better start typing...
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,902
Location
Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
WIZ AND KUPA

I don’t know why you’re so insanely anti Wiz/think he’s so immature, and you actually like Kupa (Though he’s halfway glorified in this moveset), so yeah. . .I don’t agree with any of what you’re saying remotely.

HOWEVER; I can laugh with you at this moveset in joking, as it is pretty damn funny in places, particularly early on and the occasional jabs not directed at Wiz/Kupa (Solar Man’s generic recovery). It’s definitely an enjoyable experience if you don’t take it seriously.

The problem is that halfway through the moveset does start to take itself semi seriously gameplay wise, and we get into a good bit of writing that’s not particularly funny and is trying to get us some actual flow into the moveset. While I do like what you did with the inner tube, you yourself are more then aware the set is pretty bad as a set, and it’s hard to differentiate legitimate flow from your joking insisting that everything is flowing. Taking this set seriously and looking exclusively at gameplay, though, it’s certainly not the worst in the contest. The set was never going to be anything impressive – I feel you should’ve just gone the whole way through with it being entirely a jokeset, or at least sneaked in some more humor in the gap after the standards (There is some, but not enough).

BOB-OMB

Bob-Omb’s back up on Imageshack now, so no, HR, I can’t see it, unfortunately, so I’ll just do a text comment. . .I honestly don’t like this set nearly as much as everybody else nor do I see that much potential in it. Even if you balanced him by, say, making him only need 10-20% to KO and give him a long animation of turning to ash before he “officially” dies from blowing up/make him not lose a stock from blowing up, I wouldn’t like it that much. There are a lot of inputs that seem to invalidate each other, and you stretch out the potential of the fuse over a lot more inputs then necessary, along with the whole marching thing. While some of the concepts are pretty good, I don’t feel they’re enough for a moveset. I feel Dark Samus was probably better. . .But that’s to be expected, considering this wasn’t supposed to be an actual moveset, hence why I’m not trying to sugar coat anything here. You were basically giving up – just making sure the moveset didn’t rot in a hard drive for all eternity.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
I don’t know why you’re so insanely anti Wiz/think he’s so immature, and you actually like Kupa (Though he’s halfway glorified in this moveset), so yeah. . .I don’t agree with any of what you’re saying remotely.

HOWEVER; I can laugh with you at this moveset in joking, as it is pretty damn funny in places, particularly early on and the occasional jabs not directed at Wiz/Kupa (Solar Man’s generic recovery). It’s definitely an enjoyable experience if you don’t take it seriously.

The problem is that halfway through the moveset does start to take itself semi seriously gameplay wise, and we get into a good bit of writing that’s not particularly funny and is trying to get us some actual flow into the moveset. While I do like what you did with the inner tube, you yourself are more then aware the set is pretty bad as a set, and it’s hard to differentiate legitimate flow from your joking insisting that everything is flowing. Taking this set seriously and looking exclusively at gameplay, though, it’s certainly not the worst in the contest. The set was never going to be anything impressive – I feel you should’ve just gone the whole way through with it being entirely a jokeset, or at least sneaked in some more humor in the gap after the standards (There is some, but not enough).
Thanks for the comment - been dying for one for a few hours, but I understand why it's a little hard to comment on. I'm rather pleased by how you found it, though.

I'm glad, for one, that you found it enjoyable. That's what I had hoped and it's been mixed so far, but it seems the majority do like the humour - I'm not trying to insult Wizzerd or Kupa here, just poke fun generally around them. There's nothing specific here that goes against their character and this is an ambiguous, Katapultar-like narrator after all.

Though you do complain about my not going all the way, I think that what you describe is exactly what I wanted - a viable joke set. It's not perfect, sure, but I did, I think, snag up some goodness with those interactions and actually put some real flow in there; awesome.

Again, thanks for the comment!
 

BKupa666

Barnacled Boss
Moderator
Joined
Aug 12, 2008
Messages
7,788
Location
Toxic Tower
WIZZERD AND MYSELF
So I come back after a long day in the hot sun and see my own sexy body, accompanied by a moveset for it. The poking of fun around Wiz and myself resulted in many lulz on my part (I'm Pennywise?!). I don't take any of it as an insult, and I welcome glorification in my life...although I have quite a bit to spare anyways. There is a bit of playstyle here and there (splitting up and switching characters come to mind), but I would almost prefer if the set was more like Christmas Man, in that the playstyle was very subtle and insignificant, behind all the lulz. The way I see it, you started this as a joke set, and tried to throw in a bit of playstyle and a few interactions at the last minute. I'll definitely remember this effort (mainly because it's me as a set), but I remain skeptical about its viability in the contest.

FORRETRESS
You've certainly upped the rate at which you make sets, JOE. Forretress has some highly intriguing concepts. I absolutely adore (lol alliteration) the combo of sticking Pinecos on a character stuck over spikes. Tethering to avoid being KOed is a concept I'm exploring with secret Greek god at the very moment, and I must say you pull that off rather well. What a tangled web he weaves...shoots. I wonder if you could have added some interaction between his strings and items. Maybe he pulls them in, or merely anchors them in place for teammates to grab or something. I don't know. I do know that I don't like that "they'll be sure to make mistakes." In some cases, I'm really not sure they will, which would throw off Forretress' game. I prefer Spartan Warrior to this little bugger, but make no mistake, Forretress is still a nice set. Midnight sets FTW.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
So I come back after a long day in the hot sun and see my own sexy body, accompanied by a moveset for it. The poking of fun around Wiz and myself resulted in many lulz on my part (I'm Pennywise?!). I don't take any of it as an insult, and I welcome glorification in my life...although I have quite a bit to spare anyways. There is a bit of playstyle here and there (splitting up and switching characters come to mind), but I would almost prefer if the set was more like Christmas Man, in that the playstyle was very subtle and insignificant, behind all the lulz. The way I see it, you started this as a joke set, and tried to throw in a bit of playstyle and a few interactions at the last minute. I'll definitely remember this effort (mainly because it's me as a set), but I remain skeptical about its viability in the contest.
Thanks for the comment - I'm glad you enjoyed it. You've probably got it correct about the "last minute playstyle," but is somewhat the feeling I feel pervaded almost on purpose; it is a joke set, after all. :chuckle:

Glad you took it in good stead as well, now to see if Wiz will comment.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,954
Location
The Cosmos Beneath Rosalina's Skirt
Hariyama

OMG. A DM SET I HAVE NO BALANCE COMPLAINTS ABOUT? Gadzooks it's true. I have no real balance complaints about Hariyama and admittedly not a whole lot of complaints about him in general. So...do I have any? Well yeah. The Neutral Special seems more or less like the grab game but with an added button mashing aspect to it so as to make it seem different enough. Not a -HUGE- deal but you pointed out similar stuff with Strike Man so I thought I'd just be petty be petty and point it out here too. And yes that was on purpose. Block also (despite what you say) seems to be just a better shield more or less but whatever. I like the concept you have running here as you're more or less making a set for a sumo wrestler with Hariyama as the avatar.

I will admit though that a few of the attacks seems like you just kind of...well, added on random aspects just for the sake of it. Side tilt for instance randomly gives him anti-grab armor. Instead of just saying it looks like the Neutral Special, it randomly has an extra effect tagged on. Neutral air also seems really out of place with the set as a whole (not calling Pokemon Syndrome mind you).

Overall though, Hariyama's good. I'd say he's probably your best Pokeset so far. Better than Abomasnow and Probopass from last contest I mean (and obviously your Pokesets before that).

Dark Samus

Right off the bat I'd like to say this is an impressive -LOOKING- set considering it's your first image set. Very nice work on appearance. Now that -THAT'S- out of the way...there's something that jumps out at me as...odd.

Now... I like the mechanic. The idea of using powerful attacks with the side effect of making the opponent more powerful too is a fun one...but I can't help but feel that it's...strange with Dark Samus. Now it's been a while since I've played Metroid Prime but...didn't Phazon pretty much KILL Samus unless she had the Phazon Suit? How is it that Mario and others can use it to power up their attacks? It'd probably make more sense of the Phazon actually damaged them slowly like poison damage as they drew it to them. I -IMAGINE- you were basing it on the concept of the final boss in MP where Samus used the Phazon Beam but for a normal fighter, it seems a tad out of place.

Aside from that though, Dark Samus is a pretty decent camper/projectile ho. It's a fun set to read overall and I'd say a pretty good effort. Nice job there n88.

Regal

Regal, yay! I love Tales of Symphonia. Now I can't remember if someone previously mentioned it but. . .compared to your other quicksets, Regal feels a tad rushed. The move names being left out, lack of any real "Junahu organization" and well...it just feels like something's off. With that in mind...Regal's kind of a weird one to judge. He's pretty much a self-admitted conglomeration of other playstyles/sets with his own little take on it.

I sadly don'thave a whole lot to add to Regal that others haven't said before. I'd give it a more indepth comment but I really don't have much more to say on the issue. It was an enjoyable read none the less though.

SPARTA

TOO HARD TO READ. 2/5 STARS.

It's funny how I make fun of recent events...ahahahah. Okay. On the topic of the set's organization, I do agree with Junahu that it feels a bit..empty compared to your previous sets. Dunno why, it just feels like it's missing the normal "JOE! love" your sets usually get. I will however say that I don't have as many problems with the writing as Smady had. It -DOES- get a bit wordy in places admittedly but it's nothing that's toooooo painful. I do like the balance between his various weapons and how they all act appropriately different allowing you to use what suits whatever situation.

Overall, Spartan is a pretty fun read. He's fun -AND- educational as the oddly absent Katapultar would say. I know I certainly learned something about the Spartan warriors from it. Not sure if this is really your best set or not in all honesty though. . .I'd say it's probably your best -BALANCED- set however. And by best balanced I mean least hilariously broken (which you take pride in seemingly however so eh.)

Bob-Omb

First off, my apologies for skipping Axel Gear and Solar Man. Thought I'd cut to a shorter set as I didn't realize it was getting so late (or early I suppose). Now...unlike Dark Samus, I -MUST- bash on the presentation for this one a bit (sorry). Now...I use Revolution as my skin. On Revolution, that dark blue font is close to unreadable in all honesty. It was hard to read with Dark Samus but because they were just headers and therefore much larger font it was -FAR- easier to read. Bob-Omb however is -ENTIRELY- in dark blue which means I have to strain my poor delicate eyes (lololol) to read it.

When I -DO- read it however, I find some nifty ideas here and there. It is however quite apparent that it was part of a much larger set as some ideas seem sort of eh whereas his overall results in a match seem to be nothing but straight losses without any of his partners to back him up. He reminds me much of Bomber but with even -LESS- of a chance. And while that may be fine and representitive of Bob-Omb, what with its short fuse and tendency to end up very dead very fast in-games. . .it doesn't really make for a viable character.

Forretress

Ah what the hell? I have time for one more comment! Forretress is a pretty nifty Pokemon. And he's also a pretty nifty set. But he does have his flaws. The most notable of which is the fairly unoriginal use of three different moves twice. Side/up tilt being the same are one thing. . .but fair/bair being the same -AND- uair/dair being the same too and...OH WAIT. Forward/back throw are the same too? I know it's a one day set but that comes across as a tad cheap to me personally. I do however like the idea of Forretress' spikes being scattered with the help of Rapid Spin but as someone previously mentioned, it seems like several of the other moves do more or less the same thing.

Like I said though, I do very much enjoy the whole setting spikes thing to rack up damage on the foe. It's very true to character (I think (WARY)) and following it up with Explosion is a good way to KO them (character wise of course). The use of the Pineco's is a biiiiit iffy (reminds me a tad of Dusknoir's Sableye use) but it's not like a deal breaking move or anything.

Overall, Forretress is a fun set. He's a good set. I too prefer him to Spartan Warrior if only because I prefer the ideas and the writing is easier to digest. Overall a much more simple set and a great effort for a one day Pokemon.

_____

And all caught up (except for Solar Man/Axel Gear/Kupa and Wiz). Will comment those soon-ish however, no worries. I however need sleep as it's now 4:20 in the morning
lol420
:009:
 

Junahu

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
899
Location
Shropshire Slasher
So, here we go, Wiz & Kupa. If you've glanced down at that ranking I gave because I was in a nice mood, you'll know I found this to be "the moveset to beat" in MYM8. It's so far beyond the likes of Jason, Solar Man and Regal, that I just have to spend the remainder of this comment whining about it's bad points. Then I can follow it up with a one sentence compliment at the end to justify the five stars. It's a balanced comment! :bee:

First of all- I really like this emoticon. Just.. just LOOK at it! :bee:
LOOK AT IT!
[/timewasting]

Kupa & Wiz look like they want to set up a lot of things, like the balloons and that tether, so they can overwhelm the opponent later. But then again they have quick stuff like the jet boots so, I don't know. :psycho:
..Maybe I should have deleted that last paragraph, It didn't actually SAY anything...
... ... :ohwell: [/timewastingforrealthistime]

Following on from that, the donut balloon Wiz uses was a stroke of genius, but Kupa's balloon was totally detrimental to the playstyle. It just doesn't fit the character. Why would Kupa even have a balloon to begin with, and why give it to Wiz!? It's a total prop and therefore unoriginal and lazy and un-anti-nega-AU-Bizarro-smash.

Now I've "run out" of bad things to say, so I'll ctrl-c all of the deliberate things you did, such as those shared inputs, and then paste them in as if they were my own observations. :bee:
...
:mad: YOU USED SHARED INPUTS! Smady mad! Rarrgh! You should go and die and then go to hell and then die in hell and go to limbo and then die in limbo and come back to life so I can kill you! Please, just go the other way!

That being said (that being said) I love the way you dictate the reading of this set to us with its detailed details, and then sucker punch us with a complete lack of explanation in the vital areas. It really made me :bee:. And the writing style, while atrocious, was very in-character, and therefore excellent. I always love green text, but only sometimes

A true swan song if ever I heard one... now make moar so we can start complaining about you again.

PS// compared to your other, similar works (which I thought were rushed at the time), this one seems really rushed. But that's ok because you get an extra star for making it quick, so it balances out.

Edit: Upon further inspection, I've found so many holes what with the donut and I simply cannot ignore what everyone else has said about it really being very uncharacteristic of Kupa; it's not on-par with movesets like MYM-Man or Dodongo. Figured it would be best to do this when things are quiet on this page, but I'm taking away one star: sorry, Smady.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
So, here we go, Wiz & Kupa. If you've glanced down at that ranking I gave because I was in a nice mood, you'll know I found this to be "the moveset to beat" in MYM8. It's so far beyond the likes of Jason, Solar Man and Regal, that I just have to spend the remainder of this comment whining about it's bad points. Then I can follow it up with a one sentence compliment at the end to justify the five stars. It's a balanced comment! :bee:

First of all- I really like this emoticon. Just.. just LOOK at it! :bee:
LOOK AT IT!
[/timewasting]

Kupa & Wiz look like they want to set up a lot of things, like the balloons and that tether, so they can overwhelm the opponent later. But then again they have quick stuff like the jet boots so, I don't know. :psycho:
..Maybe I should have deleted that last paragraph, It didn't actually SAY anything...
... ... :ohwell: [/timewastingforrealthistime]

Following on from that, the donut balloon Wiz uses was a stroke of genius, but Kupa's balloon was totally detrimental to the playstyle. It just doesn't fit the character. Why would Kupa even have a balloon to begin with, and why give it to Wiz!? It's a total prop and therefore unoriginal and lazy and un-anti-nega-AU-Bizarro-smash.

Now I've "run out" of bad things to say, so I'll ctrl-c all of the deliberate things you did, such as those shared inputs, and then paste them in as if they were my own observations. :bee:
...
:mad: YOU USED SHARED INPUTS! Smady mad! Rarrgh! You should go and die and then go to hell and then die in hell and go to limbo and then die in limbo and come back to life so I can kill you! Please, just go the other way!

That being said (that being said) I love the way you dictate the reading of this set to us with its detailed details, and then sucker punch us with a complete lack of explanation in the vital areas. It really made me :bee:. And the writing style, while atrocious, was very in-character, and therefore excellent. I always love green text, but only sometimes

A true swan song if ever I heard one... now make moar so we can start complaining about you again.
Thanks, Junahu: I'm glad that you liked it; there are a few obvious mistakes here and there, as it is partly a joke set. You do like your tiny text, don't you. :chuckle:
 

Agi

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
1,120
Location
SE Washington
It's been a long while since I posted here, eh?

...

Nothing to see, move along.
Empoleon should be up next week. It's a joint between Sundance and I, just in case you didn't know.



In case it's not totally obvious, this is a filler post. Go to the next page.
 

Plorf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
124
Location
Silver Spring, MD
Kingdra



#230

Description ~ Dragon Pokémon (Kingdra is the only dragon~type Pokémon in Generation II, and he's obviously also water~type. Kingdra lives at the bottom of the ocean, motionless and asleep. When it stirs, it is said to yawn, creating massive whirlpools that are quite dangerous. As the final evolution of Horsea and Seadra, it's an odd~looking seahorse, and as such it carries odd traits. Firstly is his pathetic ground speed. Seriously, it's negligible, he can hardly move at all. His aerial mobility, however, is impressive, and he has high jumping power. Part of playing as Kingdra is just mastering the way he moves. He's also got fairly average weight; not too big but none too heavy. With that brief description out of the way, let's get to the moveset!)

Special Attacks

Neutral Special ~ Water Gun (Ever played a Kirby game? Kingdra has~~ he really likes the attack Kirby uses when underwater, a little spurt of water that damages enemies. The sea dragon's attack, though, is smaller and more aerodynamic, like a tracer round. A key detail to note here is that each projectile doesn't deal damage but instead flinch and a slight pushback. Kingdra enjoys this move because it's really fast in all aspects, plus he thinks it's fun to see Ike BARELY miss the ledge across the stage from him. Oh yeah, and you an aim this a bit.)

Side Special ~ Hydro Pump (To start off, no, this is not necessarily a stronger Water Gun. It's closer to Squirtle's Water Gun if anything. Anyhow, Kingdra speedily charges this thing up by holding B, though he can't save it for later use. You'll have to hold the button down to keep the pressure up, and if you must cancel press Z. Upon release, Kingdra blasts out an extremely thin beam of pressurized water, which has a fairly powerful push effect. Obviously the pushback is better with charge, but range is also increased. At minimum charge you can see the current droop down eventually, but at max charge it goes off the screen. Superb for gimping, really. As you may have guessed, you can move around while charging and aim it upon firing.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot the most important part of the move! (ONO) Kingdra experiences a lot of recoil when using this move, especially in the air at full charge. That means he can JET through the air at high speed! Fun for an antsy little fellow like Kingdra here, who's tragically forced to fight outside of water. This guy is ridiculously slow on land.
)

Up Special ~ Whirlpool (Here, Kingdra has to improvise a little seeing as there's usually not water around him to manipulate. He sprays around him a torrent of water in a fluid motion, forming a spiraling vortex that launches him up like a spring! It's not that laggy, but you can interrupt it, but Kingdra wouldn't recommend it. If anyone besides him hops into the whirlpool, they'll be trapped for a few seconds, and unfortunately the whirlpool obeys gravity to a degree. If they're at a high enough percent, they could easily SD before the swirls dissipate, yes. Tragic. Unless they're Pit or R.O.B. (D)

On the ground, this move has the same function, but if you're using it on the ground it's not a recovery so much as a sniping point. If you angle your shots precisely from here, you should be able to gimp in a downward direction. Handy! I should add that, should you use water attacks near here, they’d be sucked up, increasing the intensity and duration of the vortex. Still, it won't last forever and only deals as much as around 24%. Also, attacks don't launch foes out of the maelstrom quite as much as they would otherwise: no unfair punching, Ganondorf. Kingdra has no helpless state.
)

Down Special ~ Brine (Have you ever gone in the ocean and just gotten seawater all over your eyes and throat? It's an awful feeling, which Kingdra can easily replicate. Aiming downwards, the sea dragon blasts out a tidal spray that completely covers his sides. It's a huge splash that is reminiscent of the ocean slamming into a rocky coast. The move's hitbox is rather like Squirtle's up smash, but broader and less condensed. When Kingdra spits down, he deals downwards knockback that easily, but weakly meteor smashes foes. The rest of this move is actually somewhat defensive, though, as the water has extremely high priority~~ enough to eat up nearly any move, including projectiles.

The splash lasts for a deceptively long time, but loses priority as the tide recedes. This does around 10% and can KO at high percents. The salty water also sort of deals poison damage to foes who got caught in the brunt of the spray, but it quickly wears off. Unfortunately, this is kind of slow, but if you really want to camp well, use it. Just be wary that this is no defense against aerial barrages.
)

Standard Attacks

Neutral Attack ~ Bubblebeam (Kingdra is not what you'd call bubbly, not in the figurative sense at least. But he can produce a steady stream of bubbles that do around 3% a pop, each with high priority. Bubbles pop after taking a hit, but since he can produce so many and they'll stick to the floor for a second, they're a barrier of sorts. There is some end lag and the guard can be broken, but if used sparingly you'll find yourself with a little less damage overall.)

Forward Tilt ~ Water Jet (Kingdra is not only a sniper. His snout here produces a thicker burst of water that does 6% and some nice, horizontally spacing knockback with high hitstun. It's a bit laggy, but Kingdra enjoys a nice, fwooshy kick that propels him a short ways backwards. As such it's great for getting in a more advantageous sniping position, not so much KOing.)

Up Tilt ~ Geyser (Spitting upwards, Kingdra unleashes a healthy~sized swath of water, it sort of cascading upwards. I'll say right out that it doesn't deal any damage, yet Kingdra doesn't see how that's a bad thing. I mean, it has great upwards knockback for its relatively low lag, though it has no hitstun like many of his moves. There is a huge hitbox here, so if somebody (Toon Link) is spamming DAirs, you might want to consider this. Kingdra recommends it.)

Down Tilt ~ Wave (That little dragon guy just pours out a steady stream, like a hose or a faucet, only at high pressure. That means there's a good deal of spray, and that's the part of this move that has the most effect~~ the spray has great priority, while the stream can trap you in for a few hits, maybe around 4% a second? That stream of water continues until it falls of an edge, so there is a large area of effect. Kingdra uses this move to stop grounded approaches for the most part, but it can push people off ledges, which can often be the first step of gimping. Keep in mind that Kingdra has a horrid crouch.)

Dash Attack ~ Boost (While making his way through that unbearably slow dash, Kingdra decides to turn around and shoot out a burst that propels him forwards a small bit~~ it's just enough so that if you're facing away from the edge, the stream from that boost is barely enough to have gimp potential. Kingdra likes going fast, and this does 5% and fairly nice push~style knockback, without hitstun. Fast is good.)

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash ~ Yawn (Kingdra takes a deep breath~~ he's tired or something, okay?~~ while charging, creating a strong suction effect. When he's done inhaling, he blasts out a thick pulse of water, it doing around 16~26% and some nice knockback considering it's disjointed. However, that suction effect has a downside~~ if the enemy gets just a little too close to Kingdra's snout, they'll get knocked back just barely out of range of the main attack. That means this is by no means a close~combat move. You will need some space to pull this off. Kingdra can do that. This has noticeable lag, but it will knock people away enough. It's not so great at KOing directly, so you'll have to follow through with a gimp.)

Up Smash ~ Dragon Pulse (Kingdra majestically faces upwards and lets loose a veritable LASER of water. Just without charging, it reaches as far as Snake's USmash, and with charging it nearly goes off the screen. It traps foes in for multiple hits that, if all the hits connect, do around 21~35%! However, this is also a pretty powerful smash, meaning it can KO off the top uncharged at around 120%. Predictably, this has its fair share of lag, but as with anything, if you can time it properly you're golden. Kingdra can aim this as well, though it always has roughly upwards knockback. I'll add here that Kingdra can aim a lot of his moves, making him that much more accurate. It should be noted that it'll only KO if the last hit connects.)

Down Smash ~ Water Pulse (In order for Kingdra to even hit low, he has to aim at the floor, since anything else would be mostly horizontal blasts and such. Yeah, so, what he does is fire a heavy balloon of water downward, which then splashes quite largely around him. It has very good priority and okay damage, at 15~22%. The knockback for this move is not laughable, it's somewhat strong and satisfying to hit with.

This is not without disadvantages, though, the move having rather mediocre range for a disjointed attack, as well as having recognizable startup animation. Even then, it's a good idea to try and pull this off, since if you hit an opponent who's touching you directly, they'll be dazed as if their shield broke. This allows you to get a really powerful move out. His smashes, though, all have pitiful knockback growth, so you'll find yourself gimping most of the time.
)

Aerial Attacks

Neutral Aerial ~ Bubble (Kingdra's falling rate can get a bit annoying if you want to shoot from high in the air. Kingdra can slow his falling speed by blowing a bubble around his body. For about three seconds, he falls at less than Jigglypuff's speed, able to use any special or aerially normally. Anything that tries to smack Kingdra now must break through the barrier first, with a single hit. This is good for when you're offstage and don't want to get gimped by using an USpec. Granted, this is good to use out of an USpec on the ground, since you can ready another aerial or a DSpec to push away any foes trying to jump up to get you. Any other foes will get projectile'd by Kingdra the sniper. There is a bit of end lag to this, and you can only use it once in the air unless you're hit.)

Forward Aerial ~ Seaspray (Kingdra leans forward, making himself a little more aerodynamic. At the same time, he sprays out some water that isn't very condensed or anything, but does have a good amount of range and priority. It's pretty much a water~element version of Ness's FAir, it doing five hits of 2% each. You're probably not going to hit with all of them, but that's okay, since the range on this thing is enough to ensure you're not punished. This can be chained very easily with other attacks, cementing Kingdra as a beast in the air. Of course, the knockback isn't KO worthy.

When this is used out of a bubble, the water pushes against the wall of the bubble, pushing it forward. It still has the same properties, only the forward motion of the bubble (about a Bowser width) makes the bubble a hitbox that deals no damage but some bouncy knockback great for spacing. The motion also is superb for getting yourself out of the way of an attack, such as a spike.
)

Back Aerial ~ Whiplash (No, Kingdra does not have hands. He does have a large fin, though, so he whips that around for one solid hit that does 7% and okay knockback that can't combo into itself. It's a bit slow, but once you've used it, you turn around. That means that scoring a hit with this flows smoothly into your other attacks, and you have a lot of options at this point. A forward air is sometimes enough to reach the foe, while other times you may find yourself using a Water Gun or Hydro Pump. All in all, a very versatile move.)

Up Aerial ~ Fountain (Kingdra points his snout upwards and straightens his body. He'll then shoot up a spurt of water that's essentially like a fountain, in that it goes up a bit before losing momentum and spreading out downward. This is essentially a clone of G&W's Uair, though since water won't push people up who aren't touching it, it's a little less effective. It's boosted with more physical range, though, the stream being about an Ike tall. There's very low lag to this move which makes it good for chaining. I will note one thing, and that’s that there’s only one hit to this move, and it’s stronger than either one of the two hits in G&W’s UAir.)

Down Aerial ~ Waterfall (This is one of Kingdra’s most important aggressive tactics. With little start~up, he turns and points himself down, then spews a wide blast of water, which covers a greater space the higher up Kingdra is when he uses it. He plummets while using this, the water causing flinching knockback of 1% per hit to anyone caught in its spray, with enough hits to deal about 14% without giving a trapped foe a chance for reprisal. There’s a spot of wind~down lag, so speedy opponents can punish him after. The move is not entirely risky; it only moves about as far down as G&W’s DAir.

There are two interesting twists to this one: firstly, if you rapidly spin the control stick while the attack is being used, Kingdra will spin, extending the hitbox but also causing him to fall at a normal rate as long as you do this. This naturally lowers its vertical range. Secondly, if a DAir is used with a bubble wrapped around yourself, it will go down with the ship, and should Kingdra so much as touch the ground here, the bubble explodes, leaving any leftover water inside it to burst out and give 10% and nice knockback to anyone nearby. This is a bit slow to end, though.
)

Grab and Throws

Grab – Danger Wrap (Kingdra has a very special grab game. When used while on the ground, Kingdra must create a large bubble in front of him, with a slight suction effect. Anyone who steps inside will be trapped for standard grab length, and Kingdra can push the bubble around with any of his attacks. This works out quite well for him, who else is better at pushing characters around than the master of water?

However, when in the air, Kingdra has an entirely different grab: he snatches anyone underneath him with his tail. This is an awkward tether recovery as well. Now, while you can pummel by pecking for 2% a go, and then jump off like Diddy Kong, Kingdra has access to his full set of throws here, but you have to act quickly; Kingdra lets go when you touch the ground.
)

Forward Throw ~ Aqua Stream (Kingdra lunges forward while dragging the opponent with him in a fluid stream of water from his snout. After traveling the distance of a platform, he flicks his tail and and spits out a line of water, pushing the foe diagonally upward. This is naturally a push effect, with no damage aside from the initial flick, so the grand total is 3%. Pretty nice for spacing and somewhat stalling, though it’s best at forcing the enemies into a situation where they must recover.)

Back Throw ~ SmokeScreen (Now I’m not sure if seahorses can really spew ink, but Kingdra learns this move so it might as well be in, yes? Anyway, Kingdra turns back and flings his opponent a little ways before unleashing a blast of dark, viscous gas. It looks as if it’s actual ink underwater, and it covers two Bowsers, going mostly horizontal but with an irregular shape. This does a measly 3% damage total, but it’s handy for escaping those slower foes, and somewhat confusing their recovery if you’re using this right. When you create a smokescreen near a ledge, it can even be an aid in edgeguarding.)

Up Throw ~ Water Cyclone (Kingdra looks upward and makes something that looks a bit like a water spout: you know, like an ominous ocean~bound tornado. This version, though, is not solid water, but rather you can see through it due to a spiraling effect. Anyway, of course he tosses the opponent into this mess of wind, the foe careening upward while taking “spinning” knockback and 9%. After that, they’re left reeling for a bit, but not long enough for it to mess with their recovery~~ you remember what reeling is, right?)

Down Throw ~ Rapids (So, our last throw is a bit of an odd one. Kingdra looks as if he’s about to start up a DAir, but the torrent of water from that instead only goes with the opponent. They then proceed to head in a general downward direction, but the throw ends here for Kingdra. Now it’s up to the foe to control their trajectory and try and aim for a ledge while surrounded by a flood of splashing water. It gets more and more difficult to control at higher percents, but the enemy is always trapped for about three seconds. If they so much as try to hit Kingdra while enveloped, it won’t phase him, so it really does give the dragon some breathing room.)

Situationals

Rising Attack ~ Water Spout (Kingdra, due to having an odd body type, does not land face-up or face-down. Instead, he only lies down on his side. Anyway, if you're inclined to do a get-up move, Kingdra twirls about, briefly stirring up a tower of swirling water; this looks like an aqua-element tornado, with the range of just over a Ganondorf up. This deals 8% and rather high upwards knockback, actually, and lasts about a second, but it has next to no horizontal range. Use... situationally. This is also Kingdra's tripped attack.)

Ledge Attack <100% ~ Offshoot (The dragon Pokémon holds onto the ledge by holding his snout over the edge, keeping himself balanced. It's a bit tricky to move around here, so Kingdra doesn't actually climb onto the ledge for attack. Instead, he spits out a current of water that carries him a bit up and back, enough to miss any disjointed attack that could reach out from the ledge. This does 8% and pretty decent knockback to anyone on the ground there, but more importantly it offers a second chance to play edge games. Kingdra can still roll onto the edge, as well as simply jump or climp up, so the option suits him well.)

Ledge Attack >100% ~ Draco Meteor (With some sort of newfound spirit, Kingdra springs off his snout and into the air, about jumping height. Not done yet, he turns around and exhales a huge gust of water diagonally up and away from the edge: basically, this launches him downwards at whoever is standing nearby, enveloped in a layer of water. This does pretty nice knockback, but it's diagonally down, so unless the foe is in the air, they won't be knocked any bit upwards from bouncing. Still though, this can be switched around with your other ledge options and you'll be fine, this does 8% as usual.)

Water Attacks ~ Hydrodynamics (This situational section is very situational: Kingdra can use certain moves while swimming. Now, firstly, while swimming Kingdra does not technically drown, however, after a certain amount of time (a good bit longer than Squirtle's swim time), Kingdra gets bored and dives deep underwater, effectively SDing.

First off, Kingdra's specials are all usable in water. Water Gun is fairly simple, it just pushes people away each time you use it, though it pushes ever so slightly downwards as well. Don't get caught, please. Hydro Pump is different. It still propels Kingdra quite a ways, but now it has a constant push horizontally, requiring no charge, but simply a held input. Whirlpool is not much different; Kingdra still is launched upward, and the whirlpool remainds to suck enemies into the abyss. Brine is the only water spike, in that you can actually get a guaranteed spike on anyone swimming upward. There's still, of course, the surge of water, only this time it's even bigger and more powerful, even including a push effect as the waves collapse.

He doesn't just have specials: standards work to an extent as well. In fact, every one of Kingdra's ground attacks works in water, unchanged except for one move. His DTilt, due to being redundant, now actually creates a Mario-sized wave that drags people along, the input now being a button tap, rather than a button hold. Kingdra is really astonishing in that, while water is scarce in Brawl, he is more comfortable in water than on land.
)

Final Smash

Final Smash ~ Maelstrom (So, Kingdra has snatched a Smash Ball~~ an endeavor, since he has a good deal of no~damage moves! Anyhow, once he’s all glowing, he lets out a cry, or a roar, whatever you think sounds best, and water fills the screen from below. There’s still a sliver of air left at the very top, but drowning is all but inevitable. Kingdra is free to move about, and boy can he move when underwater his attacks also have more range and damage. he starts out swimming "normally", though, so just fastfall to start diving. This lasts for twelve seconds before the water starts to retreat, rather slowly.

The final smash is not so simple, actually. Kingdra’s Whirlpool undergoes a severe change when used underwater: instead of being catapulted upward, he takes a deep breath and a massive vortex forms on the surface of the water, pulling everyone towards it. They will have a hard time escaping this one, with jumping being the only option of survival. Kingdra can be damaged technically, but good luck finding underwater characters in Smash.
)

Playstyle

Playstyle ~ Swift Swim/Sniper (Kingdra, how zany is he? Like, 50% of his moves don’t do damage and those that do have some sort of weird property to them! That seems a bit gimmicky, Plorf. Well, Kingdra requires a few adaptations from the average Brawl character; you’re not going to find that standard KOs are your strong suit.

Kingdra plays his best role as a gimper, tried and true. Your specials should be indication of that: Keep up a good barrage of Water Guns, maybe pull a few Hydro Pumps, go for a Whirlpool kill, or maybe just Brine your way through it all. Kingdra’s myriad options for gimping are better than the two Mario has, even though they are specials. As such, he can rip apart characters without even smashing them away.

When that time comes, though, Kingdra doesn’t have a drought of KO moves. His smashes are all very strong, but at high percents they just don’t pack the punch you need to launch. Moves like your BAir and DTilt are not KO moves, but rather set~up moves: They help Kingdra gimp rather than launch. That sort of defines how he plays, since everything tends to flow towards an edgeguard or something of the sort.

The sea dragon does not lack defense whatsoever. His best defensive options are his DSpec and Nair, due to them providing tangible barriers. However, he has pseudo~defense in the form of Whirpool: it can trap foes. His throws, while requiring offense to land, have very defensive results, and his bubble wrap can really protect you more than the foe. Kingdra does somewhat lack in pure offense, though; his FAir and DAir are his best in actual offense if you don’t count smashes.

Playing against Kingdra can be tricky for any character. His pushback moves disrupt flow, and he can halt approaches like a madman. Do keep in mind that Kingdra is not exactly the speediest fellow: in fact, he’s as slow as you can get without stopping, plus he’s prone to tripping! Even then, don’t underestimate his ability to force you off~stage, without even so much as charging a smash attack. As such, you have to keep up a veritable offense, because Kingdra can somehow break through defenses with his pure range and sniping ability: that bubble makes him both ranged and aerial, at once.

All in all, Kingdra has some huge flaws; his mobility needs to be put to the test in order to win. In the air, he’s a different animal, but his fairly low weight and bad traction, among other negative stats, make him a bit slippery to handle. However, if you have a sharp eye, and a quick mind, Kingdra can outmaneuver and out~aim most other characters. Keep this in mind, for Kingdra is the ultimate water dragon.
)

Extras

Up Taunt ~ Aqua Swirl (Kingdra spins in place a couple of times, spraying water, then stops with a satisfied look. Ooookay.)

Side Taunt ~ Burst (Kingdra blows a bubble, then pops it with his snout. How utterly random.)

Down Taunt ~ Dive (Kingdra jumps into the ground as if it were water, then splashes back up. He can avoid attacks with this! Why, you little...)

Up Victory Pose ~ Whitewater (A torrent of water rushes into the screen, with Kingdra riding on the waves. Classy. Wait, Kingdra, where are you going?)

Side Victory Pose ~ Shadow Sneak (Kingdra is not seen at first, then suddenly a spray of water hits the camera! As it's drenching, Kingdra shows up mysteriously, striking a pose.)

Down Victory Pose ~ Puddle (Kingdra is swimming about in a small lake on the floor, stopping occasionally to blow a bubble or something.)

Kirby Hat ~ Water Gun (Kirby inhaled Kingdra! He now has a really spiffy looking hat, complete with fin and blue color scheme! He can also now use Water Gun.)

Entrance Animation ~ Pokéball (Entrance is the usual Pokémon entrance. Out pops a Pokeball, out pops Kingdra, who stretches his body and prepares for battle.)

 

thunder999

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
2
I have decided to make a moveset, enjoy.
NEW CHALLENGER APPROACHING


THE POWERFUL AND FAST GARCHOMP

Garchomp is a fourth generation pseudo-legendary pokemon, the games pokedex says:
Species: Mach Pokemon Color: Blue
Weight: 209.4 lbs. (95kg) Height: 6' 3" (1.9m)
Pokedex Entry (Platinum version):
It is said that when one runs at high speed, its wings create blades of wind that can fell nearby trees.
As this implies garchomp is based on speed and power


STATS

Speed: 10/10
Power: 7/10
Recovery: 5/10
Jumps: 6/10
Weight: 5/10
Range: 3/10

Specials

Neutral B: Outrage, Garchomp glows slightly and delivers 3 powerful, fast slashes with its claws, this attack does have one weak point, the strikes are in randomly chosen directions.
KO percent: 80-90
Priority: medium
Damage: 5-6% per slash
Notes: best used to go for a kill when your oponent isn't expecting it, slightly risky.

Side B: Extreme speed, Garchomp shoots to the side for as long as you hold b, for a maximum of 3 seconds, when it stops a sonic boom shoots forward.
KO percent: 130-160
Priority: high
Damage: running 2%, shockwave 5%
Notes: used to get in close to enemies who spam projectiles.

Down B: Sand tomb, Garchomp summons a tornado of sand from the ground which quickly racks up damage on its enemies
KO percent: never, deals flinching knock back
Priority: medium
Damage: 2% per hit 2 hits per second
Notes: useful for racking up damge not that that is hard to do

Up B: Fake flight, garchopm shoots up quickly then sticks out its arms gliding forwards at a low angle for 3 seconds
KO percent: never flinches
Priority: medium
Damage 1%
Notes: good for recovery and not much else


Neutral A and tilts

A combo: fury cutter, garchomp slashes qucikly infront of itself dealing increasing damage for each successful hit and resetting with a miss or if any other move is used
KO percent: Never, flinches
Priority: low increases to medium
Damage: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc stops increasing at 11%
Notes: powerful for dealing damage

Side tilt: Brick break, Garchomp delivers a single fast strike shatters shields instantly
KO percent: 140-150
Priority: High
Damage: 5%
Notes: breaks shields

Down tilt: sand attack, Garchomp flicks sand into the enemies face then knocks them back with a swipe from its claw
KO percent: 120-125
Priority: high
Damage: 10%
Notes: very effective

Up tilt: Dragon rage, launches pruple fire upwards dealing flicnh knock back and 15% set damage
KO percent: never, set knock back
Priority: high
Damage: 15%
Notes: powerful move to make sure noone gets the drop on you


Smash Attacks

Side smash: Dragon claw, what better move could go here, Garchomp glows purple with one claw raised as it charges then delivers a devistating blow to his enemy
KO percent: 30 Charged 80 uncharged
Priority: medium-high
Damage 15 charged 10 uncharged
Notes: deadly move and a great finisher

Down Smash: earthquake, Garchomp Raises both legs, levitating as it charges then strikes the ground cracking it and sending opponents within 2 stage builder blocks distance flying
KO percent 50 Charged 90 uncharged
Priority: medium
Damage: 13 charged 10 uncharged
Notes: best range of all moves

Up smash: Crunch: Garchomp opens it jaws to reveal huge fangs whiles charging then bites upwards
KO precent: 40 charged 80 uncharged
Priority: medium
Damage 17 charged 13 uncharged
Notes: best damage


FINAL SMASH: DRACO METEOR

This is the ultimate dragon type move, and who better to use it than garchomp. Garchomp Roars at the sky, a huge flaming purle meteor hurtles towards each of Garchomp's enemies, it never misses and always scores a one hit KO, this comes at a great price, garchomps attacks now deal 2 less damage for the reaminder of this stock and its next stock.

PLAYSTYLE

Garchomp's playstyle is quite simple, rack up damge quickly, shattering defences then send your enemies flying with powerful attacks. This is easy to do with its many high speed, high damage, high priority moves and devastating smashes, its speed and side special let it stay close while its side tilt shatters shields.

Extras

Pokemon from pokeballs
Arceus
Arceus appears then strikes one enemy with its judgement attack dealing high damage and knockback
Heatran
Heatran traps a single opponent in a vortex of fire which drags them accross the stage for a distance of 5 stage builder blocks adn does 5 damage per second
 

Neherazade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2009
Messages
359
Location
Gensokyo.
apparently, in the same way that Garchomp can't learn fly in-game... he can't jump in brawl. Way to go... I'll start my commenting with this set (cuz It'll be easy and fast) and then work backwards... soon. (Will begin commenting tomorrow, once i am free of this freetime-****** english project.
 

Monkey D. AWESOME

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GARCHOMP

This is one of the worst movesets I've ever seen. The playstyle is so very generic, and the writing is crap. The Final Smash is also incredibly cheap. And WHY CAN'T GARCHOMP EVEN JUMP?!

Now, I know that was way too harsh. And I'm sure there's a lot of worst movesets out there. But I feel that Garchomp had almost no planning put into it. You have a lot of improving to do.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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K Rool Avenue
GARCHOMP

This is one of the worst movesets I've ever seen. The playstyle is so very generic, and the writing is crap. The Final Smash is also incredibly cheap. And WHY CAN'T GARCHOMP EVEN JUMP?!

Now, I know that was way too harsh. And I'm sure there's a lot of worst movesets out there. But I feel that Garchomp had almost no planning put into it. You have a lot of improving to do.
I am going to comment on Kingdra and Garchomp, but let me first address this post. MDA, I find this highly inappropriate given this poster is obviously new to the contest. He can hardly be expected be of our standards immediately.

Of what I've seen of Garchomp, it's a decent effort for someone new to the contest. I'll give a more in-depth comment a little later, but trust that MDA does not speak for us all with his insulting post.
 

MarthTrinity

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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GARCHOMP

This is one of the worst movesets I've ever seen. The playstyle is so very generic, and the writing is crap. The Final Smash is also incredibly cheap. And WHY CAN'T GARCHOMP EVEN JUMP?!

Now, I know that was way too harsh. And I'm sure there's a lot of worst movesets out there. But I feel that Garchomp had almost no planning put into it. You have a lot of improving to do.
I agree with SmashDaddy 100% here. I'm sorry MDA but this post was entirely uncalled for and I apologize to thunder999 for it.

Now this will be an overall blanket rant so here goes. Some people don't -WANT- to put a whole lot of time and effort into a set. MYM is about getting ideas out there and sharing them with others. If thunder999 wants to just put together a Garchomp set for the fun of it, so be it, he's more than welcome to and is infact ENCOURAGED to have fun.

Now back to the comment at hand. . .why is the playstyle boring? Why is the writing style bad? You basically just tore down the poor guy for putting together a set for fun with NO real reasoning behind it much less any constructive critique. You must remember that not everyone will reach Warlordian status after one attempt and crushing them down like that will make it so they don't want to continue in the thread.

So once again, I'd like to apologize to thunder999. I'll comment Garchomp ASAP~
:010:
 

Wizzerd

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
929
It looks like we have a newcomer moveset, and on their first post! How rare is that? I'm glad to see that you have the drive to make a moveset for us and I hope you could stick around with us long enough to make more movesets, but right now, there are some things that could be improved about Garchomp. First off, your organization is rather unattractive and unappealing. Let's take a look:

Neutral B: Outrage, Garchomp glows slightly and delivers 3 powerful, fast slashes with its claws, this attack does have one weak point, the strikes are in randomly chosen directions.
KO percent: 80-90
Priority: medium
Damage: 5-6% per slash
Notes: best used to go for a kill when your oponent isn't expecting it, slightly risky.
Let's refurbish this a little:

Neutral Special: Outrage

Garchomp glows slightly and delivers 3 powerful, fast slashes with its claws, this attack does have one weak point, the strikes are in randomly chosen directions. This KOs at around 80% to 90%. The priority is medium, and this deals 5-6% per slash. This is best used to go for a kill when your opponent isn't expecting it, as it's slightly risky.
Your "digest" format makes it difficult to get the point of the attack across, and the fact that it's all one color makes it difficult to distinguish attacks from one another. You might consider organization unimportant in the grand scheme of things, and it's true that it doesn't cover up for a lack of quality, but it makes people more likely to stay for the whole experience - and you don't want people to be turned off by this, right?

Next, originality. Right now most of Garchomp's moves are simple slashes. There are a couple of unique ideas like the FTilt, but it doesn't look like you put all the time you could have into making Garchomp stand out from a standard character. If you spend enough time working, I'm sure you'll be able to come up with some more unique properties, and we'll be able to forgive some generic attacks.

You also need a good playstyle if you want to succeed. A playstyle is ultimately how a character plays differently from an average one - is Garchomp a gimper? A camper? A rushdown character? Once you get experience I'm sure you'll be able to make playstyles more advanced than this, but right now a simple one should suffice. Just make sure that your character doesn't ultimately play like every other character, and you should be good.

You also need to detail your moves some more. Let's take a look at Side Special:

Side B: Extreme speed, Garchomp shoots to the side for as long as you hold b, for a maximum of 3 seconds, when it stops a sonic boom shoots forward.
KO percent: 130-160
Priority: high
Damage: running 2%, shockwave 5%
Notes: used to get in close to enemies who spam projectiles.
What do you mean by shooting to the side? Does Garchomp enter his dashing state? Does he do something like Ike's FSpec? Does he do something like Fox or Falco's? You also should have elaborated on what this sonic boom is, as right now it could be assumed to be virtually anything. I think it's a projectile, but I'm not sure. Still, you have damage percentages, and even kill percentages, which are rare for a newcomer, so kudos for that.

Garchomp is also missing aerials and a grab game. While posting incomplete movesets is not against the rules, it is frowned upon, and Garchomp won't appear on our index of movesets on our blog linked to in the OP until you add aerials and a grab game. You don't want people to miss out on your work, do you?

Still, please don't be discouraged, thunder999. Garchomp is still a good effort for a newcomer, no less on his (her?) first post. You just need to keep these qualities in mind, and I'm sure you'll be making a much more enjoyable moveset in no time =)

edit - And I don't want this to start to look like a group attack, but I agree with both of the above posters. It's true that thunder999 has some room to improve, but you exaggerate it as if Garchomp offended you. If you want to critique it, please identify what's wrong with it instead of making a blanket statement.
 

Monkey D. AWESOME

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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All right, all right, I'm sorry. I forgot that this was Thunder's first moveset, and that this is supposed to be FUN. Listen Thunder, don't give up on movesetting just because I made a comment that really was uncalled for. I just sort of look up to the leaders and the other top MYMers. Now that I think about it, first movesets are the ones that would fit most in Brawl. And I would enjoy playing as Garchomp.

Again, I am truly sorry. Please just ignore my comment. I wrote it without thinking. I guess if I made a set just for the fun of it without planning it, I'd probably make it worse than yours.
 

Katapultar

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,251
Location
Australia
I click on page 15 and what do you know, there's a Kingdra moveset! Funny enough, I thought of doing him during JOE!'s time of making Fortress, but my idea was vastly different than yours (basically I was going to make a mechanic out of Kingdra's ability to create whirlpools and showcase it. My set was going to have wacky things like having Kingdra turn into Poiseidon for his Final Smash and make tornadoes when he falls asleep) In any case, you've done a pretty good job taking Kingdra on.

As for Garchomp, it's pretty good that he's been made anew. Everyone loves Garchomp, so I don't blame you for starting off with a showcase of his epicness. . .

Weak organisation? No playstyle? That is nonsense they utter, for Garchomp has playstyle and organisation that's satisfying enough for me. While there aren't any aerials or grabs, I don't mind at the meantime (Im sure you're probably going to edit them in). You get 2 bounses in my books: 1stly, "The Powerful and Fast Garchomp" is awesome. 2ndly, Arceus and Heatran as Pokeball pokemon are both win (funnily enough, they both have movesets made for them as well).

Despite everything that's happened hopfully you can make some more sets of your favourties. Thankfully MYM's not in the position to ignore any set posted, so you don't have to worry about lack of attention.

To finish off, I read Kupa *Whaaaa? Is that Kupa? Yesss he even says so!* and Wizzerd *lol he's portrayed as a little boy from pokemon RSE* the day before I posted this comment. It's not really in my interest to read new movesets anymore unless the character is of my interest, but through skimming the set, I lololololololololoed. Your work paid off, for I liked it. Even today, I thought about it and loled a little more. Even through typing this, I still lol. I just wanted to give you the praise you deserved for your hard work.
 

32º Centigrade

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
14
Two Pokesets? It must be my birthday.

Kingdra is definitely a step up from Solar Man, but he has some of the same problems. When I read the word "sniper", I feared the worst. To start off, you did a better job of putting in fitting attacks; I can imagine Kingdra doing most of these. Only a few attacks seem out of place (Smoke Screen).

Kingdra definitely has a more grounded playstyle: spacing and camping. His sniping tools are nicely defined except for Water Gun; I don't think you explained the range of the projectile. Whirlpool's SD potential seems unneeded, as Kindra would be to far away from his opponents to gimp with it, right? His Smashes are nicely balanced with their lag and KB growth, but still do a lot of damage, his Up-Smash in particular. Kindra should have no problem charging his Smashes if he's done a good job of spacing.

Onto his aerial game. Most of his aerials are good and simple. I love the Neutral Air, but I wish you would have added more interactions with other attacks. The Down Air seems to clash with his spacing playstyle. Does he really need a mid-air grab? The throws are also fine. I like the Down Throw because it fits with his spacing and gimping style quite nicely. Overall, Kingdra is a good set, and a nice all around improvement over your last one.


Now onto THE POWERFUL AND FAST GARCHOMP. It's always nice to see a newcomer. First of all, Garchomp is like a Brawl character in terms of playstyle, and it's fine that you don't get the concept yet. Just read over some of the articles on the Stadium and you'll understand. Next, detail is your friend; flesh out your descriptions so we can see exactly what you're thinking, without going overboard. Also, try not to rush your sets, take your time to make them the best they can be. I hope you'll edit in the aerials and throws later, and look forward to any new sets from you.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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Location
K Rool Avenue
To finish off, I read Kupa *Whaaaa? Is that Kupa? Yesss he even says so!* and Wizzerd *lol he's portrayed as a little boy from pokemon RSE* the day before I posted this comment. It's not really in my interest to read new movesets anymore unless the character is of my interest, but through skimming the set, I lololololololololoed. Your work paid off, for I liked it. Even today, I thought about it and loled a little more. Even through typing this, I still lol. I just wanted to give you the praise you deserved for your hard work.
Thanks for the read and comment, Kat. I can only hope it brought a fraction of the unadulterated lulz that Jason wrought. :chuckle:

Okay, first of all, Wizzerd made pretty much all of the points I would have only a few posts above on Garchomp, so I won’t go into the moveset – I would mainly be re-iterating what he has said – particularly that excellent criticism on your style of writing. I do look forward to any future contributions you can make… though the lack of any Wiz and Kupa feedback from Wizzerd is a little garish, when Kupa’s was so delightful.

Onto Kingdra, this is another Plorf moveset so I’m obviously going to give it one star in my end rating – yay for insulting generalisations. Though I did find the moveset another tough read, it’s nowhere near as bad as Solar Man and I can actually see some links in this one beyond a vague projectile camper. That said, Kingdra is in fact a projectile camper – or gimper – so it’s not all that much a leap.

I’d say most of these moves are boring and generic, as just random water-based gush moves that operate on a similar level to Squirtle’s water gun, but with the ‘Kupa effect’ that gives each some kind of post-mortem shift that makes it linked to the very murky playstyle of gimping. It does have a certain eloquence that Solar Man lacked, though – every move at least seems highly appropriate to Kingdra and, no, though it is still quite a droning read, it isn’t terrible like Solar Man.

There are, in the least, a few interesting concepts in this moveset; the bubble grab, which reminds me of a future Warlord creation. You actually included a primary characteristic of Kingdra in the yawning; it is odd that most moves are no-damagers, where I think you let some pre-assumptions about Smash get in the way [if Squirtle’s water gun does it!] and, as has been jested, your Pokémon syndrome is quite bizarre. You use the names, but the moves have almost no connection to the moves and are, in most cases, more loyal to Smash, but still not more imaginative.

Again, a big problem is that most of these moves simply do not flow into the playstyle whatsoever and simply act as a leeway for the inputs that actually matter like the neutral air or grab, which is a very rookie mistake. I have slightly warmed up to your conservative style of writing moves themselves; as ever, your quips are at least a nice break from the comparatively intensely dull and similar styles of moves present.

In all, some new ideas, which is more than can be said for Solar Man, but most of them are unrealised or executed in a sloppy fashion like the whirlwinds. It’s a lesser point due to the nature of our whole shebang, but… eurgh, water, water everywhere. I feel like a dunce for saying this… a character reliant entirely on water attacks is a fraction better than one reliant on fire attacks, it isn’t even Sakurai-level silliness and that is not good. It would be forgivable if it made a semblance of difference in a great way, but it doesn’t, as many of the moves are pretty meh, it’s more like an after-thought.

In all, it’s almost unbearably mediocre and average. It is dragged down by a lack of cohesive thought on the playstyle and generally seems rushed. However, I respect how you churned this out right after Solar Man despite my heavy criticism and, be it good or bad, stuck to this style. If your other MYM8 set is an “abomination,” Kingdra’s a little better.

Edit: Upon further inspection, I've found so many holes what with the whirlwind and I simply cannot ignore what everyone else has said about it really being very uncharacteristic of Kingdra; it's not on-par with movesets like Bob-Omb or Spartan Warrior. Figured it would be best to do this when things are quiet on this page, but I'm taking away one star: sorry, Plorf.

 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
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I agree with Smady in endorsing Wiz's post on Garchomp, him pretty much saying everything that needed to be said better then I could've.

KINGDRA

I really don't get what you guys are saying on Kingdra having a more concrete playstyle then Solar Man - all Kingdra has is gimping. His camping is really non existent in terms of flow, just having one or two projectiles and calling it a day when Solar Man's entire set was filled with them. In particular, this set really seems to fail in the camping aspects when it comes to that Up Special. . .Hide inside the whirlpool as a sniping point? Okay, that was all well and good until you brought in the part with the whirlpool absorbing all your water attacks, which means Kingdra can't fire his bloody projectiles from inside of it. There also just seem to just be a lot of irrelevant moves splattered all around with no clear playstyle, which is hard to not notice with the Pokemon syndrome going on.

There is some playstyle in the gimping though, but that just goes for a few inputs, really. I like what you did with some of the aerials and the aerial grab/throws were a really nice touch, but that's about all I can say I like about the moveset. While the writing is vastly improved from your past 3 sets, it's still awkward. I prefer Solar Man - whom I think is an actual half decent set, mind you. Kingdra isn't a terrible set by any means, but you're definitely capable of producing and have done much better sets.

@Rool: I was referring to your lack of activity in that blog post. Y'know, the one thing we are capable of doing?
 

Monkey D. AWESOME

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Feb 28, 2010
Messages
143
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Coming to terms with having two people in my mind
AXEL GEAR

What can I say? Axel Gear = win. Lightning Barrier = win. Rocket fuel mechanic = win.

Let's start off with the fuel mechanic. I love how unlike some other special mechanics, this one actually ties into nearly EVERY SINGLE MOVE. And since you may end up using all of the fuel units in a few seconds, you actually have to think while using Axel. Thankfully though, you don't have to think too much. That'd ruin in fun, in my opinion. :bee:

Lightning Barrier is a genius idea. With it, Axel can summon an unbreakable electrified fence out of nowhere FOR A FULL MINUTE; He can then beat his enemies into it while laughing like the villain he is. But since it hurts him as well, I can imagine Axel getting his butt handed to him by a Wall of Pain Jigglypuff. :chuckle:

Axel Gear is a moveset filled with quality ideas and humor. I think it's a great finish to your solo moveset-making career, HR, and the moveset to beat in MYM.


BOB-OMB

Bob-Omb shows that a simple concept doesn't really mean that a moveset is bad. A lot of the time, it makes it better.

Bob-Omb is probably the ultimate glass cannon; He blows himself up every thirty seconds, for God's sake! And suicidal players can even speed up the countdown if they want to. But Bob-Omb has a lot of mindgame potential for someone who blows up with one fire-based attack. It can speed up, slow down, or even stop its fuse; It can make its fuse become invisible to keep opponents guessing as to when it'll blow.

Bob-Omb can be described as a mixture of Leeroy Jenkins and... Some other guy who uses mindgames (can't think of an example :ohwell:). And it mixes together surprisingly well. Good job!
 

Smady

Smash Master
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K Rool Avenue
I really don't get what you guys are saying on Kingdra having a more concrete playstyle then Solar Man - all Kingdra has is gimping.
Well, all Solar Man has is "camping," because he has so many projectiles. At least here, Plorf makes actual references to gimping and camping with the attacks, even if he mislabels them sometimes. I regard that as a step up.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
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Aug 24, 2008
Messages
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Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
Well, all Solar Man has is "camping," because he has so many projectiles. At least here, Plorf makes actual references to gimping and camping with the attacks, even if he mislabels them sometimes. I regard that as a step up.
Seeing you ninja'd any moveset on this page I suppose I'll reply. There's nothing wrong with the concept of gimping - if anything it's a more unique concept then camping. It's that Kingdra is suppossed to have both camping and gimping but only really has the gimping, which only takes up so much of the set. I feel Solar Man was much more focused with every move being a projectile. It doesn't matter if he doesn't specifically tell us that he's a camper in every move - that'd just make the set more redundant then it already is. If you cannot see that Solar Man is a blatant camper then you perhaps have not fully grasped flow yet.
 

Smady

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There's nothing wrong with the concept of gimping - if anything it's a more unique concept then camping. It's that Kingdra is suppossed to have both camping and gimping but only really has the gimping, which only takes up so much of the set. I feel Solar Man was much more focused with every move being a projectile. It doesn't matter if he doesn't specifically tell us that he's a camper in every move - that'd just make the set more redundant then it already is. If you cannot see that Solar Man is a blatant camper then you perhaps have not fully grasped flow yet.
This is where I stand: Solar Man seems like an amalgamation of random fireball moves which don't correspond to any playstyle whatsoever [that you originally said this was a "camper" is actually what inspired me to do Wiz and Kupa, with their "flow" shenanigans]. Any playstyle here is accidental - or, at least, that's what I feel you inferred. Even if Plorf missed out on one part, at least he meant Kingdra to be a gimper. Thus, Plorf gets extra points for recognising parts of his own playstyle in Kingdra over Solar Man which he thought he was a "versatile projectile resource" moveset and this comes over in the playstyle sections as well.

I mean, both are pretty weak entries - Kingdra is just a tid-gen better than Solar Man, in my so humble opinion. Plorf doesn't really get into playstyle at all well in either.
 

Plorf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
124
Location
Silver Spring, MD
What happened to MYM being about fun, anyway? I mean, I really think that's part of why MYM is in a rut right now. Ignoring all arguments, because arguments are not useful.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
It's hardly arguments; it's simply discussing movesets - if you want to stop that, then MYM may as well not have a thread as comments alone cannot be the foundation. Really, it's just as much this kind of, "don't post in the sacred thread!" mentality that is making MYM 'not fun anymore' as 'arguing.' :psycho:
 

Frf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 11, 2008
Messages
83
Location
Memphis, TN
I always say I'm back for good but then I leave suddenly. That's Frf for you.

Kendra

-I feel like the colors are going to give me a swift kick in the nuts later on. They look nice, however, so a nice swift kick in the nuts is a step up.
-Yay simple organization Pokesets!
-I liked it when Dragon types were a rarity. Since gen 3 they've been all like "Lets make Dragonite cry! <3"

-Kendra can hardly move on ground? I would imagine so, try putting a seahorse on Brinstar and tell me what happens!
-Oh~god~the~squiggles~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Doesn't any sort of knockback like flinching reset the opponent's recovery? That'd make water gun tough to use effectively....I'll just assume you left a vital detail out about how the flinch doesn't reset recovery!
-Hehe, Kendra jetting across the battlefield with Hydro Pump is clever. Because, as you've established, Kendra is slow.
-Oh god yes Whirlpool <3
-So it's main perk is being able to Snipe downwards? Couldn't you just.....Jump up and use the specials? Eh, it's a cool move regardless.
-Yes I hate when I get seawater in my eyes. @_@ Actually I just hate the beach in general.

-Standards help the gimping playstyle. Nothing fascinating, but it works.
-Yay, his smashes actually damage!
-Up smash seems pretty god.
-FOES WILL GET PROJECTILE'D BY KINGDRA: THE SNIPER.
-Yay, bubble! It allows Kendra to go up in the air and pick off foes as he's slowly descending! So......why have whirlpool? D:
-Gah, you need more details, Plorf. >_0 I don't have access to your mind!
-The forward air~neutral air interaction is pretty clever.

-I like the idea of the grab trapping the opponent inside a bubble and pushing them with water and such.
-Long situationals. 0.0
-I never understood why people always had a tripped attack and a rising attack.
-Kendra has a snout of STEEL.
-Kendra can't trip! How you-neeck!

Kendra was pretty good. Gimping has been explored, but not as much as something like camping. You pull it off well, but again, clarify things a tad better. @_@ Though I always find myself loving your easy writing style and crisp organization. You took as much as you could out of Kingdra, so it was an enjoyable read.
 

n88

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2008
Messages
1,527
-I feel like the colors are going to give me a swift kick in the nuts later on. They look nice, however, so a nice swift kick in the nuts is a step up.
I'm not sure why, but I find this amusing. It just got sigged.

Abywho, I've forgotten much of Kingdra, so I'll edit in a comment here either tomorrow or later tonight after I re-read.

Aaaand may I join the community echo in welcoming thunder999 to MYM. Hope to see more from you in the future.

Oh, and Smady, I don't think it's so much a "sacred thread" thing as it is a "chat is easier" thing.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
Haha, true that. I think Chief Mendez had a heart attack when he first saw the **** of the thread that the chatroom is, but it's still silly that people refuse to discuss movesets anywhere now as they feel threatened by any presence in the thread whatsoever. To put it into actual human words there, all the devil spam talk has people afraid to post anything that's even slightly off-topic in case Mic comes down and bans the entire thread. In reality, he would only do that in the post-MYM4 / MYM7 scenario where Plorf just starts spamming his head off.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
Okay, MDA, where exactly is the argument here? I had a discussion with Joe over my score on Spartan Warrior, but that was hardly an argument as it's not like he wanted three-stars - he simply disagreed with the way my comment was formatted. Aside from that, what, me not liking Solar Man? I just don't see where these "arguments" are.
 

MasterWarlord

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 24, 2008
Messages
2,902
Location
Not wasting countless hours on a 10 man community
Ignoring all arguments, because arguments are not useful.
Which is precisely why we cannot respect your opinions on other movesets - not that you ever give them anyway. You cannot back up your opinions with any form of argument and never attempt to justify them - you just throw them out there. You saw how negative Monkey D. AWESOME's criticism without justification on Garchomp was, yes? That's the sort of mind bending frustration that comes out when you post "commentary" like your MYM 6 Gluttony one or just casually take a piss on something in the chat.

If we do not attempt to define why sets are good or bad, then really, we're basing it entirely off of character bias like in MYM 2 and 3 and even 4 to an extent. If we are not going to judge the sets and just put an equal amount of sprinkles on everything in a communist fashion, then god knows why anyone would post any movesets in this "contest". I'll keep my movesets far away from the likes of a place where they'd be put on a podium alongside Sandshrew.

If you expect us to lie about our opinions on your sets or don't want our opinions on your sets, we'd be gaining a good bit of time not reading your sets.
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
Which is precisely why we cannot respect your opinions on other movesets - not that you ever give them anyway. You cannot back up your opinions with any form of argument and never attempt to justify them - you just throw them out there. You saw how negative Monkey D. AWESOME's criticism without justification on Garchomp was, yes? That's the sort of mind bending frustration that comes out when you post "commentary" like your MYM 6 Gluttony one or just casually take a piss on something in the chat.

If we do not attempt to define why sets are good or bad, then really, we're basing it entirely off of character bias like in MYM 2 and 3 and even 4 to an extent. If we are not going to judge the sets and just put an equal amount of sprinkles on everything in a communist fashion, then god knows why anyone would post any movesets in this "contest". I'll keep my movesets far away from the likes of a place where they'd be put on a podium alongside Sandshrew.

If you expect us to lie about our opinions on your sets or don't want our opinions on your sets, we'd be gaining a good bit of time not reading your sets.
This seems a tad harsh on Plorf - but it's all true. If Plorf is insinuating that 'arguments' are a result of negative commentary and therefore negative commentary is unnecessary, he's false. Negative commentary is far more constructive than positivity ever can be, as it truly gets to the point, rather than dithering so that everyone can remain friends. If you take the criticism personally, it's not the author of the comment's fault; simply try and try again.

If you're really in this for the fun, there's no reason not to make another moveset using all the feedback from the one which received some less-than-glowing reviews. Only someone expecting some kind of appraisal would want people to ignore everything wrong about their moveset. :embarrass
 

Plorf

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
124
Location
Silver Spring, MD
That's not what I meant at all, actually. In any case, what's happening is we seem to be hyperfocusing in a way, making this a far more serious matter than it really is-- for example, my word choice was a little off, there, but I couldn't quite think of what to say. You know, trouble expressing what's on the mind. I proceeded to get two rather standoffish comments, which is precisely the kind of thing I think is not helping out the whole bringing in newcomers thing. Just a few thought, not going to try to continue on this... conversation, let's call it. :)
 

Smady

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Messages
3,306
Location
K Rool Avenue
That's not what I meant at all, actually. In any case, what's happening is we seem to be hyperfocusing in a way, making this a far more serious matter than it really is-- for example, my word choice was a little off, there, but I couldn't quite think of what to say. You know, trouble expressing what's on the mind. I proceeded to get two rather standoffish comments, which is precisely the kind of thing I think is not helping out the whole bringing in newcomers thing. Just a few thought, not going to try to continue on this... conversation, let's call it. :)
Uh, seeing as you started this "argument" personally and have failed to provide any further examples of such a phenomena, I don't get why you even made that provocative "argument" post in the first place. :psycho:

Like, I don't see the problem of MW and I discussing Kingdra - we were discussing very specifically about the playstyle and how it compared to your other moveset, but then you jumped in to tell us to stop it. Why not just join in on the discussion? The point is, if you actually listened to what we were saying rather than casting it off as arguing, you'd find that such criticism would be less harsh in the future and you'd get more praise.
 

Fried Rice

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 1, 2010
Messages
2
I was browsing the BITF boards and found Make Your Move. Reading through it I saw a large move set by someone named agidius and was thus led here. I decided to join as it looked rather interesting, but I cannot imagine coming up with a move set massive and intricate enough to compete. Nonetheless I qua nerd shall attempt it.

Prepare for a dreadful attempt XD
 
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