T-block
B2B TST
if you're playing with items, d-smash can hit past the hammer with a little bit of timing. they can't recover if it hits them off stage.
the more you know
the more you know
-
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Ivysaur Tactical Discussion
- Thread starter TheReflexWonder
- Start date
humble
Smash Ace
T-block
B2B TST
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Someone's been hanging with DMG.
humble
Smash Ace
Buuda
Smash Apprentice
Humble- Have you read Reflex's guide? That covers quite a lot, and will probably be really helpful. As far as Ivy's grab game goes, F-throw and D-throw have great follow-ups, and F-throw CAN pseudo-cg (not well if the person you're playing is good and plays a light/floaty character). I often follow up Razor-Leafs with a grab, B-throw to space them out, then spam the Razor Leaves some moar until I get close enough to grab again. I play Ivyspam, not Ivysaur.
Edit- By Ivyspam, I mean I spam when I can within reason, so y'all don't go trollin' me tellin' me how bad my Ivy is because I shouldn't "just spam". XP
Edit- By Ivyspam, I mean I spam when I can within reason, so y'all don't go trollin' me tellin' me how bad my Ivy is because I shouldn't "just spam". XP
humble
Smash Ace
Just looked at the frame data, ivy is fast. This is news to me. - nair, frame 4, bair, frame 4, dtilt, frame 4, jab, frame 4, dash attack, frame 4, bullet seed, frame 4.
Frame 4 ftw
Frame 4 ftw
humble
Smash Ace
yep, my bad. Ftilt is frame 5 as well I think.
I've found a situational use for tether cancel! While playing on SV, if ivy is on the ledge, wait until the platform comes over the ledge, then release from ledge, jump backwards, and tether. If you do it right, Ivy lands on the platform to cancel the tether. If you miss time it, just snap in to the ledge!
Speaking of fun ivy tether techs, instant tether ***** recoveries with helpless states hard. Mario, wolf, etc. It's really easy to mixup too, instant tether, release then double jump, fastfall nair to bulletseed, instant tether then release and airdodge while they come onto the stage, then grab and bthrow them back off.
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
I'm having some approaching issues with Ivysaur. Can someone please give some tips on when I should back away and when it's a good time to approach?
Phiddlesticks
Smash Lord
back away when youre winning, approach when youre losing
(basically, always approach)
(basically, always approach)
T-block
B2B TST
Ivysaur has a terrible approach game... if they're not coming to you, I would seriously consider sitting back and letting your other pokemon recover.
humble
Smash Ace
Ivy's air speed ruins her otherwise fine approach game. If you can, force them to come to you, but on characters with better projectiles, go in cautious and space your moves to avoid punishment.
EDIT: What are your guy's feelings on using uair low to the ground?
EDIT: What are your guy's feelings on using uair low to the ground?
T-block
B2B TST
it's something i've been telling myself to use more
Buuda
Smash Apprentice
Yeah I like using SH or FHFF u-air quite a bit. It's not too laggy, really. As long as you hit the ground. The shield pushback is good, and it's got a pretty **** hitbox (even underneath Ivy), so I'd say it's pretty good.
GoofBall
Smash Journeyman
Just to clear this up for me:
I don't know if it was a glitch, or sweet spot, or what, but I cannot recreate it. But then again, I don't main Ivy(or the others) or play the, often at all. But does Fair have a Spike effect at all?
Also, could it stage spike if they are hanging on the ledge?
Thanks
I don't know if it was a glitch, or sweet spot, or what, but I cannot recreate it. But then again, I don't main Ivy(or the others) or play the, often at all. But does Fair have a Spike effect at all?
Also, could it stage spike if they are hanging on the ledge?
Thanks
T-block
B2B TST
it can stage spike
it can't spike otherwise
it can't spike otherwise
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
At what point do you use Ivysaur's Fair? When the opponent is approaching or when you Fair while your approaching?
The Nameless Wanderer
Smash Lord
I use Fair for killing without trying to put myself at risk.
You should try to use Fair like once every 30 seconds since if you become predictible with it, you're going to get punished.
You should try to use Fair like once every 30 seconds since if you become predictible with it, you're going to get punished.
Magik0722
Smash Champion
I find fair to be pretty safe
Kemious
Smash Apprentice
I find Fair only useful for forced air dodges
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Well we can autocancel SH F-air so if used properly and sparringly it works well but once you over use it things will get ugly from there
humble
Smash Ace
Does anyone else use Ivy's tether cancel on SV? If you are on the ledge, wait until the platform comes to your side, then press down, immediately jump backwards, and then time your up-B press and you will tether to the ledge, and then as you swing down you land on the platform and cancel your tether. This is useful because it allows ivy to get off the ledge safely, it refreshes her tethers if you want to camp the ledge, and it looks really ******.
oOTjayOo
Smash Apprentice
i might try that i saw some good tricks with it
Ivysaur Dash Attack has a lot of priority. I was using it to cover Luigi as he fell to the stage; works rather well.
Kemious
Smash Apprentice
eh the dash attack is way too unsafe to use out side of using it when your opponents near the edge. Other wise your asking for a smash attack
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Just don't be predictable with it. It comes out pretty fast.
Someone's spotdodging to the ground? Dash 'em.
Someone's spotdodging to the ground? Dash 'em.
Toby.
Smash Master
Or be a real man and SH bullet seed.
PokemonMasterIRL
Smash Master
Real men typhdash.
CHOMPY
Sinbad: King of Sindria
If you dash often and your opponent get's in the habit of putting up their shield, you can just use a RAR late fast fall back air and then use a ftilt to poke their shield.
Everyone--
Remember when I was talking about the platform potential of Ivysaur?
It's because it allows you to use your aerials without having to fall back to the stage with her terrible horizontal aerial mobility holding her back.
F-Air is potentially great for damage, KOs, and spacing, but when you start falling, you have nothing good to protect yourself with.
B-Air is potentially great for combos and excellent spacing, but it leaves a fairly large gap between two B-Airs, deals crap damage, and is predictable.
What if we start mixing them up within a single jump? That's where platforms come in. With a full-hop F-Air (which is mostly safe, especially when retreating), after your hitbox comes out, you're easy pickings for the opponent normally. However, if you do an immediate full-hop F-Air underneath many platforms, the animation is over before you land on the platform. If you time it well, you can use the F-Air a little after you jump, making it even safer. That being said, you have plenty of leeway to buffer it out of a full-hop, but if you can time it well, all the better. Just takes practice.
This allows you to gain your entire moveset immediately after a F-Air, which is awesome.
Aggressive, fast characters can be dealt with by following the landing up with an immediate Dash Attack (if their attack doesn't have much range), F-Tilt/F-Smash (if they try to space horizontally) or jumping D-Air (if they try to juggle you with U-Airs or something).
Outside of that, though, you can just turn around, fall through the platform, and immediately B-Air, allowing for a F-Air -> B-Air defense that is safer than doing the same aerial twice, as well as very unpredictable because of your options when you land from the F-Air.
You can do this on any legal stage with platforms (they all seem to be at least near the perfect height off the ground for it). I may make a list of which ones are perfect and which ones allow you to do a F-Air later to make it safer.
Also, have we messed around with short-hop B-Reversed Bullet Seed? I imagine it might work well against characters with really good shield games and spotdodges (since it's easy to shield afterward). Perhaps the movement provided by the B-Reverse will allow Ivysaur to stay on a person's shield long enough to start shield-poking on shield. This also goes with the idea that Ivysaur should be aiming to make the opponent use up their shield.
Experiment with this stuff and tell me what you think!
Remember when I was talking about the platform potential of Ivysaur?
It's because it allows you to use your aerials without having to fall back to the stage with her terrible horizontal aerial mobility holding her back.
F-Air is potentially great for damage, KOs, and spacing, but when you start falling, you have nothing good to protect yourself with.
B-Air is potentially great for combos and excellent spacing, but it leaves a fairly large gap between two B-Airs, deals crap damage, and is predictable.
What if we start mixing them up within a single jump? That's where platforms come in. With a full-hop F-Air (which is mostly safe, especially when retreating), after your hitbox comes out, you're easy pickings for the opponent normally. However, if you do an immediate full-hop F-Air underneath many platforms, the animation is over before you land on the platform. If you time it well, you can use the F-Air a little after you jump, making it even safer. That being said, you have plenty of leeway to buffer it out of a full-hop, but if you can time it well, all the better. Just takes practice.
This allows you to gain your entire moveset immediately after a F-Air, which is awesome.
Aggressive, fast characters can be dealt with by following the landing up with an immediate Dash Attack (if their attack doesn't have much range), F-Tilt/F-Smash (if they try to space horizontally) or jumping D-Air (if they try to juggle you with U-Airs or something).
Outside of that, though, you can just turn around, fall through the platform, and immediately B-Air, allowing for a F-Air -> B-Air defense that is safer than doing the same aerial twice, as well as very unpredictable because of your options when you land from the F-Air.
You can do this on any legal stage with platforms (they all seem to be at least near the perfect height off the ground for it). I may make a list of which ones are perfect and which ones allow you to do a F-Air later to make it safer.
Also, have we messed around with short-hop B-Reversed Bullet Seed? I imagine it might work well against characters with really good shield games and spotdodges (since it's easy to shield afterward). Perhaps the movement provided by the B-Reverse will allow Ivysaur to stay on a person's shield long enough to start shield-poking on shield. This also goes with the idea that Ivysaur should be aiming to make the opponent use up their shield.
Experiment with this stuff and tell me what you think!
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Interesting, Reflex. I'll mess around with it!
Increased mobility is always a good thing.
Increased mobility is always a good thing.
bigman40
Smash Master
Haha. I was just about to ask if Wavebounced bullet seeds were looked at more, but Reflex beat me to it.
T-block
B2B TST
I love posts like this... make me think about the character in different ways.
I did wavebounce Bullet Seed once, and it looks sexy as hell.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
Are there any good video examples of PT's wavebounces? I've heard about rocksmash and bullet seed but i don't know what they look like or what the use of them is.