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The Ike Match-Up Ratio Topic

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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I have no PT exp and probably never will, or at least for a long time, so I'll trust what you guys say.
 

theeboredone

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Hm, the two Charizard mains I've played haven't posted much trouble to me (Magik and Zigsta). Kinda don't wanna give an opinion on that.

Squirtle: 60-40 Ike
Ivysaur: 65-35 Ike
Charizard: 55:45 Ike.
 

Nysyarc

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Aw I'm gonna have to do more spreadsheeting? Eh it's not much this time.

:squirtle: 60-40

:ivysaur: 60-40

:charizard: 50-50

That's Ike-Opponent. I'll wait for some more input and then post the averages.


:034:
 

Zigsta

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The PT-Ike MU is not 50-50. It's at least 60-40 in Ike's favor.
 

YagamiLight

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Might I suggest we make a habit of updating this topic with our opinions on the first of every season? So pretty much 6/1, 9/1, 12/1 and 3/1.

It won't happen enough to annoy people or for the metagame to not improve but at the same time it's not so slow that nobody will care.

Opinions?
 

Iofsauron

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I think that's a great idea. Also I think that the Ivysaur MU is more like 65-35 in Ike's favor , since ivy isn't really that good at all and all PT usually try to switch out or ignore Ivy :p
 

Nysyarc

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Might I suggest we make a habit of updating this topic with our opinions on the first of every season? So pretty much 6/1, 9/1, 12/1 and 3/1.

It won't happen enough to annoy people or for the metagame to not improve but at the same time it's not so slow that nobody will care.

Opinions?
I'll agree to that as long as everyone who gives input agrees to do it in order of tier list, ratios as Ike:Opponent, and with minimal comments on each match-up. Just cause it's way easier for me to organize all the data if everyone gives input in the same way. If you want to comment on any of your ratios, please do so in some paragraphs below the listing of your ratios, not beside/between the list.

Otherwise yah, I think that's a good idea.


:034:
 

Nysyarc

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Yah so in that case, might as well just give all new input including the individual Pokemon match-ups. No sense updating the old one when we're going to completely revamp it in a few days.

Also, note to everyone. While you're giving ratios in order of tier list, which I would really appreciate if you all did, put PTs individual Pokemon immediately following PT himself in this order:

:pt:
:squirtle:
:ivysaur:
:charizard:

I don't care if you want it in a different order entirely when I do the final list, that's fine, but for the sake of making data collection much easier, please do it in that order.


:034:
 

Iofsauron

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Yah so in that case, might as well just give all new input including the individual Pokemon match-ups. No sense updating the old one when we're going to completely revamp it in a few days.

Also, note to everyone. While you're giving ratios in order of tier list, which I would really appreciate if you all did, put PTs individual Pokemon immediately following PT himself in this order:

:pt:
:squirtle:
:ivysaur:
:charizard:

I don't care if you want it in a different order entirely when I do the final list, that's fine, but for the sake of making data collection much easier, please do it in that order.


:034:
:pt: 60-40 Ike
:squirtle: 55-45 Ike
:ivysaur: 65-35 Ike
:charizard: 50-50
 

Nidtendofreak

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If we're doing this season thing, I might as well kick it off. Honestly, not much has changed for me, but I have given one or two MUs some more though and thus a slightly different number.

:metaknight: 3-7
:snake: 4-6
:diddy: 45-55
:falco: 3-7 -> 35-65 (honestly, I'm right inbetween the two for actual number, but I rounded down for the sake of showing the difference between Falco and MK)
:popo: 55-45
:marth: 35-65
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 50-50
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 40-60
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 40-60
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65 -> 40-60
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 40-60 -> 45-55
:dk2: 40-60
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 45-55
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 40-60
:shiek: 40-60
:pt: 60-40
-:squirtle: 65-35
-:charizard: 45-55
-:ivysaur: 55-45

:sonic: 50-50
:ness2: 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: Ditto Match
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 60-40
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 55-45
:ganondorf: 65-35
Changes in bold. If we're going to do the comments for each MU part, it will need to be later.
 

YagamiLight

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:metaknight: 30-70 -> 35:65
:snake: 40:60 -> 45:55
:diddy: 45:55
:falco: 40:60
:popo: 55:45
:marth: 40:60
:wario: 45:55
:dedede: 40:60
:pikachu2: 50:50
:olimar: 35:65
:lucario: 40:60
:gw: 55:45
:pit: 45:55
:toonlink: 45:55 -> 40:60
:zerosuitsamus: 40:60
:kirby2: 50:50
:rob: 40:60-> 45:55
:dk2: 55:45
:peach: 55:45
:fox: 45:55
:luigi2: 60:40
:wolf: 45:55
:shiek: 45: 55
:pt: 55:45 -> 60:40
:squirtle: 65-35
:ivysaur: 60-40
:charizard: 50-50
:sonic: 50:50
:ness2: 55:45
:bowser2: 60:40
:lucas: 55:45
:ike: Ditto Match
:yoshi2: 55:45
:mario2: 55:45
:falcon: 60:40
:samus2: 45:55
:jigglypuff: 60:40
:zelda: 60:40
:link2: 60:40
:ganondorf: 65:35
Changes in bold. A few got better, Toon Link got worse.
 

Nysyarc

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Sounds like a good idea Niddo, I'll give my input.

:metaknight: 25-75 -> 30-70
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 35-65
:falco: 40-60
:popo: 40-60
:marth: 40-60
:wario: 45-55
:dedede: 40-60
:pikachu2: 40-60 -> 45-55
:olimar: 35-65 -> 40-60
:lucario: 45-55
:gw: 45-55
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 45-55
:zerosuitsamus: 35-65
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 40-60
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 45-55
:fox: 45-55
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 45-55
:shiek: 40-60
:pt: 50-50 -> 60-40
:squirtle: 60-40
:ivysaur: 60-40
:charizard: 50-50
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 55-45
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: + :ike: = :ike::ike:
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 65-35
:samus2: 45-55
:jigglypuff: 45-55
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 65-35
:ganondorf: 70-30

:034: 0-100 -> 15-85
Change Reasonings:

MK - I've been thinking a lot about this match-up and about all the different MKs I've faced both offline and online and the more I think about it, the less of a threat MK seems to be. Of course eventually you hit a wall and when it comes down to it, it's still a terrible MU for Ike... just not quite as terrible as I used to think.

Pikachu - I had a biased opinion here because of a local Pikachu main I could not beat for the life of me. I finally took some time to learn the keys to the match-up and beat him in tourney last weekend, to the point where he had to switch to Olimar, so I've realized it's not Ike's MU with Pikachu, it was my lack of knowledge on said MU.

Olimar - I've never had a serious problem with an Olimar main. I've found that unless they play 100% gay and never let up on tossing Pikmin and pivot grabbing, it's not too bad of a MU. If you can read their attempts to grab you and punish everything with Jabs and only Jabs (because nothing else is safe), you can rack damage pretty quickly and once they're off-stage, it becomes a game of simply when to go for the edge-hog.

PT - I don't know how I came to 50-50 before. I've always known first hand that Squirtle and Ivysaur are relatively easy for Ike and Charizard isn't too bad either, so why I had it as even overall I have no idea.

Nidoking - I felt that this match-up is in fact winnable for Ike if he plays it very carefully. If Nidoking chooses to punish Ike with Horn Drill on every whiffed Fair then you really stand no chance, but on the off chance that he'll hurt himself after using Thrash, you could get an early KO.


:034:
 

-RedX-

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:metaknight: 30-70
:snake: 40-60
:diddy: 45-55
:falco: 35-65 -> 40-60 - Not as hard I as thought when it comes to edgeguarding.
:popo: 45-55 I don't like them. :[
:marth: 40-60
:wario: 40-60
:dedede: 35-65
:pikachu2: 45-55
:olimar: 35-65
:lucario: 45-55
:gw: 45-55 -> 50-50 - I can beat Penta now. *shrugs* lol
:pit: 45-55
:toonlink: 35-65 -> 40-60 - Recently played Jash again, just had to wait for him to land. Still gay though.
:zerosuitsamus: 40-60
:kirby2: 45-55
:rob: 55-45 ROB sucks.
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 40-60
:luigi2: 55-45
:wolf: 40-60
:shiek: 45-55
:pt: 55-45 -> 60-40
:squirtle: 55-45 -> 60-40 - Eruption discussion. (No rhyme intended)
:ivysaur: 60-40
:charizard: 50-50
:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 55-45
:bowser2: 55-45
:lucas: 55-45
:ike: - Port priority.
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 45-55 -> 50-50 - This ***** shouldn't be gimping me.
:falcon: 55-45
:samus2: 40-60
:jigglypuff: 55-45
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 60-40
:ganondorf: 60-40
10Matchups.
 

san.

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@Ussi, after having played many many TLs, it's a solid 40:60 in my mind. It is a weird MU for me too because TLs character messes up my personal timing and expectations of certain moves.

Update:
moved falco and ROB up
moved jiggs and yoshi down
I really want to move oli up, but I still have a couple things in my mind I need to clear up.

30/70: If played correctly can be an intensely difficult matchup. Our options get walled off one by one.
:metaknight:

35/65: need to be noticeably a good margin better if both are playing MU correctly

:dedede:
:olimar:
:marth:

40/60: Need to be noticeably playing better than opponent

:falco: 35:65-->40:60 When I compare this to snake.. just seems like around the same difficulty
:zerosuitsamus:
:lucario:
:snake:
:toonlink:

45/55: Minor disadvantages that could be easily overcome, but maintain a certain presence in play

:fox:
:diddy:
:pit:
:shiek:
:wolf:
:samus2:
:wario:

50/50:

:pikachu2:
:popo:
:ike: Ditto Match
:sonic:
:peach:
:kirby2:
:rob: 40:60-->50:50 This MU has always been nagging at me because I never considered ROB a hard MU at all, but it was solidified at MLG after I played ROBs and thought a bit more about the MU. There's gay things both characters can do to each other.

55/45:

:gw:
:dk2:
:luigi2:
:pt:
-:squirtle: 55:45
-:ivysaur: 65:35
-:charizard: 55:45 (lol put a random number, I have no clue about this MU)
:ness2:
:bowser2:
:mario2:
:jigglypuff: 60:40-->55:45 I play jiggs enough and have played enough good Ikes to come to this number. A good jiggs can gimp Ike, but it's so much more than that, the matchup is primarily based on MU knowledge.
:yoshi2: 60:40-->55:45 I still think we shut down yoshi pretty well, but I can't think of many strong CPs to push the advantage.

60/40:

:lucas:
:falcon:
:zelda:
:link2:

65/35:
:ganondorf:
 

Iofsauron

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Change Reasonings:

MK - I've been thinking a lot about this match-up and about all the different MKs I've faced both offline and online and the more I think about it, the less of a threat MK seems to be. Of course eventually you hit a wall and when it comes down to it, it's still a terrible MU for Ike... just not quite as terrible as I used to think.

Pikachu - I had a biased opinion here because of a local Pikachu main I could not beat for the life of me. I finally took some time to learn the keys to the match-up and beat him in tourney last weekend, to the point where he had to switch to Olimar, so I've realized it's not Ike's MU with Pikachu, it was my lack of knowledge on said MU.

Olimar - I've never had a serious problem with an Olimar main. I've found that unless they play 100% gay and never let up on tossing Pikmin and pivot grabbing, it's not too bad of a MU. If you can read their attempts to grab you and punish everything with Jabs and only Jabs (because nothing else is safe), you can rack damage pretty quickly and once they're off-stage, it becomes a game of simply when to go for the edge-hog.

PT - I don't know how I came to 50-50 before. I've always known first hand that Squirtle and Ivysaur are relatively easy for Ike and Charizard isn't too bad either, so why I had it as even overall I have no idea.

Nidoking - I felt that this match-up is in fact winnable for Ike if he plays it very carefully. If Nidoking chooses to punish Ike with Horn Drill on every whiffed Fair then you really stand no chance, but on the off chance that he'll hurt himself after using Thrash, you could get an early KO.


:034:
Yeah honestly my bro Joeysmash is a Olimar main and its about 50 50 just as long as im close to him, if your not, you'll get destroyed

As for the Nidoking comment.... I totally agree! xD
 

Ussi

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I have TL as 40:60, i know it's possible to get around his projectile game and zair but man its really difficult at times :S


:metaknight: 25-75 / 25-75 --> 30-70 / 29-71
:snake: 40-60 / 40-60
:diddy: 40-60 / 42-58
:falco: 40-60 / 40 - 60
:popo: 55-45 / 57-43
:marth: 35-65 / 34-56
:wario: 45-55 / 45-55
:dedede: 40-60 / 40-60
:pikachu2: 50-50 / 50:50
:olimar: 35-65 / 33-67 --> 40-60 / 40-60
:lucario: 40-60 / 39-61
:gw: 45-55 / 44-56
:pit: 45-55 / 45-55
:toonlink: 40-60 / 39-61
:zerosuitsamus: 40-60 / 41-59
:kirby2: 45-55 / 46-54
:rob: 45-55 / 45-55 --> 50-50
:dk2: 45-55 / 47-53 --> 50 - 50
:peach: 50-50 / 50-50
:fox: 45-55 / 44-56
:luigi2: 60-40 / 59-41
:wolf: 40-60 / 40-60
:shiek: 40-60 / 40-60
:pt: 60-40 / 58-42
:squirtle: 60-40 / 57-43
:ivysaur: 60-40 / 60-40
:charizard: 55-45 / 54-46
:sonic: 50-50 / 50-50
:ness2: 50-50 / 50-50
:bowser2: 60-40 / 61-39
:lucas: 50-50 / 50-50
:ike: My friends - Your Friends
:yoshi2: 60-40 / 58-42
:mario2: 50-50 / 50-50
:falcon: 60-40 / 60-40 --> 55-45 / 57-43
:samus2: 45-60 / 44-56
:jigglypuff: 60-40 / 60-40 --> 55-45 / 55-45
:zelda: 60-40 / 62-38
:link2: 55-45 / 57-43
:ganondorf: 65-35 / 66-34


Yea I didn't change much, just lowing some advantages cause well, dash shield is too good :S

and well, i'm gonna go with san on jiggs.

I may have made some other changes but I didn't bold them out cause well the needed number stayed the same.
 

Mr. Doom

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Mr. Doom's turn.

:metaknight: 40-60
:snake: 45-55
:diddy: 45-55
:falco: 45-55
:popo: 50-50
:marth: 40-60
:wario: 50-50
:dedede: 45-55
:pikachu2: 50-50
:olimar: 45-55
:lucario: 55-45
:gw: 50-50
:pit: 50-50
:toonlink: 50-50
:zerosuitsamus: 50-50
:kirby2: 50-50
:rob: 50-50
:dk2: 50-50
:peach: 50-50
:fox: 45-55
:luigi2: 60-40
:wolf: 45-55
:shiek: 45-55
:pt: 50-50
:squirtle: 45-55
:ivysaur: 60-40
:charizard: 50-50

:sonic: 45-55
:ness2: 60-40
:bowser2: 60-40
:lucas: 60-40
:ike: 0-100
:yoshi2: 55-45
:mario2: 50-50
:falcon: 60-40
:samus2: 45-55
:jigglypuff: 50-50
:zelda: 60-40
:link2: 60-40
:ganondorf: 60-40

There, I'm done. Bye.
Any changes made are bold and white.
 

Ussi

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Give us your wise words of wisdom Mr. Doom.. On all your numbers. I'm serious I want to see a more detailed point of view
 

Mr. Doom

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Mega Knight: This matchup requires a lot of planning ahead, patience, and wit. Plank as hard as hell when you have the stock lead. Up+B works wonders on the ledge. Tech the wall if you believe you're going to get d-aired when you're trying to up+b. Always DI up, except for grounded shuttle loop and utilt.

Ekans: Another matchup that requires patience. Don't play the grenade game with snake if they're good at it. Super SDI his f-tilt to where you'll pop up behind him. Jab is the best. Get him off the level and try to force him to recover low.

Diddy: Another matchup that requires patience. Don't get flustered by those bananas. Diddy can't really kill you until you're at like 150%. Once you get in, jab away.

Fried Chicken: Chaingrab to spike is the first thing you have to worry about, but if you have super SDI, then it's really no big deal. After that, Falco can't kill you. The only thing he has is that f-smash. U-air kills off the top early, so d-air camp him, lol.

Popo and Nana: Don't get grabbed. Retreating f-airs. Counter the blizzard. Separate the two and it's 95-5 Ike, unless you're dumb.

MIKE HAZE!: Your air speed is the same as Marth's, only that he has better air control. When he starts spamming f-air, you spam it back on him. Always expect Dolphin Slash, so you can punish accordingly. This matchup is a classic example of whoever strikes second wins.

Fat Wario: Wario's air game is too good. Stick to nairs and keep Wario on the ground as much as possible. Pick stages with platforms like Battlefield and Yoshi's and camp under them with nair. You have a grab release to u-tilt, so abuse it.

Butt Stomper: All he does is grab n shield! And uses b-airs. Your f-air outspaces his b-air. Your f-tilt outspaces his f-tilt if you use yours second. Don't get grabbed, and keep D3 offstage. The game is yours if you do that.

PikaPikaChuChu: Don't go to FD. Pikachu has too much control on that stage. Watch out for d-smash to thunder, or any move that launches you up into the air -> thunder. If you're caught trying to momentum cancel, you're blasting off again. Pikachu's out-of-shield option usually is nair, and it can kill if fresh.

Lolimar: Blue pikmin kills you when you get b-thrown. Purple for usmash. Red for fairs, Yellow for bairs, and white for latch damage. Force Olimar to throw all his pikmin at you, and then go in. Jab works wonders when you're in.

Lee Martin: Your f-air outranges all of Lucario's aerials. I think nair does so, as well. If you do a jab1->jab1, you're probably going to see a d-air coming from Lucario. Shield and punish accordingly. If you're offstage, but in the stock lead, take all the aura spheres you want and time the opponent out. Lucario's power grows as he takes more damage, so get rid of him early.

Gayman Watch: Super SDI is key. When he starts b-airing you, super SDI through that and b-air him. GW's d-smash sends you up if you're at the tip of his hammers, and they'll send you sideways if you're close. Usmash has a huge hitbox, so don't get too close when he rears his head back. And try to send GW to the closest blast zone, or else you'll be upset when he bucket-breaks. Utilt works too.

Kid Icarus: Arrows, the nerve of them. But Pit can't kill you unless he f-smashes or b-airs you. You can super SDI the first hit of his F-smash and totally miss the second one.

Young Link: That Projectile spam can get annoying, but if you keep your cool and know that Toon Link can't really kill you until 150%, then you're fine. Just make sure you're a stock ahead, or else you're getting timed out.

Zaro Suit Spamus: ZSS's jab comes out on frame 1. The ZSS I'm familiar with doesn't spam side-b as much as other ZSS players, so my input will be a little skewed. Avoid the frame-traps in the air that ZSS has on Ike. U-air will try to get you to airdodge right into a b-air. If you suspect ZSS is going to grab you, then avoid it and punish with f-smash.

Kirby: I already wrote a guide on Kirby in one of the war rooms, so feel free to look at that.

Optimus Robot: I haven't played a ROB in a long time, so yeah.

Monkey Kong: Haven't played a DK in a long time, so yeah.

Peach: Haven't played a Peach in a long time, so yeah.

Foxy: The Fox I play approaches, so my input wouldn't be any good. Well, there is super SDI...

Weege: Haven't played a decent Weege in a while...

Wolf: B-air and Laser for damage racking, and f-smash, d-smash, f-air, and u-air for kills. Oh yeah, he can gimp you with d-throw.

Shiek: Haven't played a shiek in a long time. Light was the latest Shiek I played.

Pokeman Trainer: Just time him out. You'll win if you do that.

Water Ski: Squirtle usually tries to start a u-tilt string, then will go into u-air strings. D-throw is his best kill. Watch out for the hydroplaning, though.

Marijuana Plant: While others may lol at this, just keep in mind that Ivysaur has up to a 50% rack-up if you get bullet-seeded. Gimp Ivysaur's recovery and you should be fine.

Rock Smash: Avoid Rock Smash and try not to get hit by Charizard's flamethrower, especially if you're offstage. His f-air has a hitbox that does no knockback, so if you were going to get hit, then hope that you get hit by that attack.

Sonic: Haven't played a Sonic in a long time, so yeah.

Bess: Haven't played a Ness in a long time, so yeah.

Koopa: Haven't played a Bowser in a long time, so yeah.

George Lucas: Haven't played a Lucas in a long time, so yeah.

Ike: I get wrecked in this matchup...

Boshi: Haven't played a Yoshi in a while, so yeah.

Mario: Annoying cape. That's all I can remember...

Captain Batman: Haven't played Ally's Falcon in a while.

Spamus: Haven't played a Samus in a while.

Jiggs: You can kill Jigglypuff early, but jiggs can gimp your up+b recovery. Just watch this video for a dubs vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsdmXowVxyg
And watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7mvIFYeykU

Zelda: Haven't played a Zelda in a while, so yeah.

Legan: Haven't played Legan's Link in forever.

Ganondork: Your damage will skyrocket if you're not careful. But don't go in scared, either.

There. Are you happy now? I'm done here. Bye.
 

Heartstring

Smash Legend
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I'm going radical, Ike vs Olimar is 40:60 now
lol wut, it depends on the olimar, if hes campy and defensive (like 99% of the olimar community) then i'd say its about 80-20, if not then its still 65-35. that matchup is horrible because olimar can punish your landing without even getting into an area thats potentially dangerous.
also the ragne on the yellow pikmin's upsmash is moer broken than snakes u-tilt...srsly its almost a projectile.
also ike-mk and ike falco=BAD
 

Ussi

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San is doing something that camping is not the only thing Olimar has to do to win.

EDIT: oops offtopic

I think we need to explore bthrow/fthrow > tech chase.. Like into nair to eat air dodges.

Using bthrow to throw offstage.. Ike can walk off fair, dair, and fsmash onstage. They cover most options or so I would say. airdodge back to stage avoids walk off dair and fair but fsmash eats that like nothing.
 

Heartstring

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San is doing something that camping is not the only thing Olimar has to do to win.

EDIT: oops offtopic

I think we need to explore bthrow/fthrow > tech chase.. Like into nair to eat air dodges.

Using bthrow to throw offstage.. Ike can walk off fair, dair, and fsmash onstage. They cover most options or so I would say. airdodge back to stage avoids walk off dair and fair but fsmash eats that like nothing.
yeah, but this is the wrong topic right? i reckon we should make a tech cahse thread or sumthin'.
weve got a guaranteed b-throw t dash attack on all characters with a slower falling speed with lucario,any faster and they can tech/shield/etc before our hitbox comes out
 

YagamiLight

Smash Champion
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weve got a guaranteed b-throw t dash attack on all characters with a slower falling speed with lucario,any faster and they can tech/shield/etc before our hitbox comes out
Not to derail the thread but this is wrong to the point where I feel I need to say something. The characters on whom the Bthrow to DA combo works on are almost entirely fastfallers or large characters. Their fall speed and / or size ensures that after the Bthrow they touch the ground and incur 4 frames of landing lag because of that. If they are slowfaller such as Lucario then they can just mash jump and will escape the combo.

In addition, the frame advantage that you get from a Bthrow varies drastically as time goes on. The minimum amount that you can get from characters forced to land is 16 frames while the maximum amount (reached by large character at near 100%) is 26 frames of advantage. This might not sound like much but realize that it means that for HALF A SECOND you can do stuff while they cannot.

Sorry for derailing the topic, Niddo.
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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Just to mention, bthrow to dash attack on characters where it's not guaranteed, will STILL hit most of them offstage unless they air dodge. Sometimes it eats their jump too, and I'm not entirely sure if they can jump+air dodge. Some of these choices put characters such as olimar, marth, falco, etc in a much less favorable position.

The possible reactions to the dash attack to bthrow should also be considered.
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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Most of the time I thought we can just hit MKs. At middle percents I always got it off. That'll suck if they can pull off the shuttle loop :(
 

Watkins

Smash Journeyman
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How do you feel about the set you played against Dojo San? He seemed to obviously extensively know the Ike Matchup. He knew exactly how to gimp Ike as well as how to Upair out of aether and other such shenanigans.

Do you think Ike vs MK is doable at pro levels when both characters know that matchup and maybe you'll get him next time?
 

san.

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
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Well, it's obviously extremely difficult. That's why I put the MU as 30:70. MK however has no projectiles or CGs, and it's possible to outrange him on most of his attacks. I don't really have much TOP level MK experience, because they're usually busy with other people and I don't have many chances for friendlies, but I think it's definitely doable, especially when I look at Mr. Doom vs the same person. There were many worse things dojo could have done against me, too, but that's for him to figure out :o
 

Nidtendofreak

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You kids get out of mah topic with your off topic crap! Hmph. Why back in my day, we youth had respect. Respect I tell ya! Listening to authority, respecting other people's property...but nowadays? Nada. You're all spoiled brats! Brats I tell ya! :mad088:

Anyhow: if your opinions about a MU has changed due to MLG, go ahead and change it. Say otherwise if not.

None of my MU ratios have changed since I posted then last.
 
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