The ROB Matchup Thread

I can agree with 45-55, the MU is pretty evenish, but Falco gives us some problems. Just ban FD and you will do fine.

I feel like its worse than that, if the falco can't avoid getting gimped we'll destroy him.

but on even terms ROB 40/60 Falco, but thats just probly cause I get so annoyed with lasers.

I think its just that scrubby Falcos are easy, but this matchup gets progressively worse as your opponents get better.

R 40/60 F

On a more serious note, stop with the numbers, they suck and don't prove anything. I know that the final ratio should be in numbers, but people posting this MU gets hard so it's 40-60 doesn't mean anything Read my post about Falco, it might not be 100% true to you, but it is exactly everything about my experience with Falco and I have played that MU a lot.

TheMike said:

We need to agree with one ratio for the Falco matchup.

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Ahvena said:

On a more serious note, stop with the numbers, they suck and don't prove anything. I know that the final ratio should be in numbers, but people posting this MU gets hard so it's 40-60 doesn't mean anything Read my post about Falco, it might not be 100% true to you, but it is exactly everything about my experience with Falco and I have played that MU a lot.

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??!? We're deciding on a ratio, We've already discussed most of the MU and we need to hear different opinions on who has the favor. Just because we didn't include a write up on our thoughts/opinions about this MU doesn't mean we wont contribute.

Just in my opinion we are wasting our time talking about a stupid number that doesn't mean anything, while we could be discussing the next character.

The number is there for someone that wants a quick reference to the MU so they have an idea of if they want to pick up ROB to fight X character or vice versa. From there they read up on the MU. Saves the time for people skimming MUs.

Your "stupid number" opinion is just that, an opinion. The majority wants a number (or at least Mike does, but I think the majority does as well. lol) so a number shall be had. It's just like the tap jump discussion we had recently. It's all preference.

In my honest opinion, I recon the match-up ratio relys on whether there's a ledge grab rule or not. I find I can only win this mu if i can actually plank lol, so at least I have somewhere safe to bail myself to where falco's options become limited. And at least this way, you can force an approach if you're holding the % lead.

If ledge grab rule is in place, then the mu favor will switch over to falco because he'll just pelt you down with lasers, while ROB's camping is rendered useless due to the fact his lasers will interrupt yours. Also with Falco having a reflector to stop your lasers and gyro too doesn't help the situation either, and having to approach kinda blows. Falco can easily just side-b away from rob too and continue ****** him with lasers.

Since robs a bulky character too, his size doesn't help with the mu either imo. :/

Well I don't know if any of this is relevant. But its just my opinion of the mu and what I've experienced playing Falcos... I'm not very good with my brawl terminology ;__; (quite bad at brawl lol)

But pretty much to sum it off;

55-45 (ROB Fav) If ROB can plank
40-60 (Falco Fav) If ROB can't plank

40-60 Falco favor in general (taking into account all stages and counter picks, and metagames like planking)

I have to disagree with Tin Man, I would say 45-55 for Falco, since Rob overall has a huge choice of stages, from Cruise to Brinstar (I think it actually is good for Rob in this MU)

Brinstar quite bad for rob though, I try to avoid that level. And I thought cruise was mostly banned nowdays?

The ledge grab rule: 40 to every character but Ice Climbers, 60. And no, Lylat Cruise/Rainbow Cruise is not banned.
This matchup is still 40-60 to us, due to our size, Falco's laser spam and camping, + the fact that he can reflect our startup lagging projectiles, which become predictable at times.

Ohes I was more so meaning rainbow cruise, because its banned in most tournaments here. I'd probably take falco to either yoshis or lylat i guess.

Actaully Cruise should never be banned. Also, our size doesn't matter, SHDL can hit almost anyone. Also, you still have that thing called powershield, which is easy.

I reckon its dead even 50/50 there are a lot of things both characters can do to each other at close range/mid range/long range. It just comes down to which player is better imo

Regarding Falco vs Rob...



This is either 50-50 dead even or maybe 45-55 Falco's favor IMO.

Neither character wants to approach the other and neither character can kill easily. Falco probably has a slightly easier time killing ROB, but he's still Falco so it's not much of anything to be worried about. ROB has the gimp possibilities if he gets good reads and also has a great ledge-play game, which Falco has a hard time punishing.

It's really annoying for both players and generally ends up having a lot of hard camping from whoever is in the lead. Falco can chain grab and maintain the lead, but if the ROB plays right, that won't happen often.

My recent matches with T0mmy's ROB at MLG were ridiculously close and very much confirmed this as a 50-50 matchup to me.

T0mmy should really give more input on this match up. He probably knows it the best.

Saw your matches against t0mmy MMM, noticed that t0mmy was fighting to slow the pace of the game so he could stay alive and wait for his chance to gimp you.

sneakytako said:

Saw your matches against t0mmy MMM, noticed that t0mmy was fighting to slow the pace of the game so he could stay alive and wait for his chance to gimp you.

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Yeah-- I thought I had the win from time out but he got that clutch F-Tilt to laser gimp with like 20 seconds left. Well played on his part. That's why I think it's such a close match, one good read and they can take the whole stock.

I would like to hear T0mmy's thoughts as well.

I also happen to play a lot against Finland's better Falco. Both will live long, Falco has a chance of gimping Rob and Falco can't kill Rob before higher %. 50-50 sounds nice.

50-50 seems more accurate than 45-55. So, as the ratio is decided, we can start the Ice Climbers discussion!

I have played against IC very little, but avoiding the grab is no big deal for Rob. It is almost impossible for Nana to avoid all the high powered projectiles we throw at them.
Also, I am pretty sure bair has a lot of importance in this MU, it has a solid hitbox and moves Rob away making grabbing impossible. I cannot contribute to this MU really. Sorry. All I can say, this is one of the worse MU for IC.

My twin brother mains Ice Climbers so I can help with this matchup. According to him, this matchup is 60:40 in R.O.B.'s favour and I agree with him. But does CPU training count?

The D-smash separates them very well, and I always go for Nana and kills her with three Nairs in a row. Because Nana is a CPU, she can't think of what to do, LoL (if she's not CPU trained). And imagine R.O.B. vs Popo alone. Yes, we can gimp Popo very easy and also camp if we so want. R.O.B. is considered as the best character counter vs Ice Climbers. We can also avoid getting grabbed (for example using Bair) and spam-camp them to death. Our projectiles beat their's too. The Gyro can be blocked really easy though, but use it carefully (perhaps on the ground to prevent the ice blocks, or glide toss to F-smash to separate them). The laser is much better in this matchup though, because they go through their's projectiles.

Take IC's to small stages with platforms rather, but if you want to camp, pick larger stages. I prefer Battlefield and counterpicking Brinstar (just because the lava can disturb their infinitive chaingrab). Ban Final Destination and you should do fine.

But it really depends on the IC's, if they can do the infinitive (play defensively) or not. If they can't, all playstyles work. The main idea is too kill Nana early.

Hope this helped! Matchup: 60-40 to our advantage.


And what? The Falco matchup is even? No! Change it to 45-55 R.O.B.. Have you even looked at the average? Around five says it's 40-60, four 45-55 and only three 50-50, and you changed it to 50-50 LoL?!

ccst, the cpu training thing is bull****, unless someone shows us some data, it's bull****. And a video of a CPU Falco doing a dthrow doesn't really do it for me.
Also, I kinda agree with ccst in this MU. This might be it, the reason to use Rob competitively, we have all the tools to destroy the climbers. Also, Nana isn't CPU all the time, most of the time she is desynched and taking orders from the player while Popo is busy performing his own stuff. Also, of course the IC can do the infinite, even I can do it consistently, the thing is, MU discussion is made for the top level of play. Also, the big weakness in this MU is their uair, it literally destroys Rob and we can't do anything about it, it cannot be even airdodged.
I won't be the one saying the numbers, I am just telling cold hard facts

TheMike said:

50-50 seems more accurate than 45-55. So, as the ratio is decided, we can start the Ice Climbers discussion!

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enough people have said 40-60. I would strongly advise you change the matchup ratio to 45-55. This seems like the fairest ratio.

Tin Man said:

enough people have said 40-60. I would strongly advise you change the matchup ratio to 45-55. This seems like the fairest ratio.

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Yeah, I totally agree with you. I feel ignored too. Change the ratio to 45-55...

And this is only a suggestion: Isn't it better if we just discuss the matchups without ratios? And then when it seems to be end of discussion, all of us votes for a ratio? LoL, perhaps it's what we do, but in a different order. Never mind.

Ahvena said:

ccst, the cpu training thing is bull****, unless someone shows us some data, it's bull****. And a video of a CPU Falco doing a dthrow doesn't really do it for me.
Also, I kinda agree with ccst in this MU. This might be it, the reason to use Rob competitively, we have all the tools to destroy the climbers. Also, Nana isn't CPU all the time, most of the time she is desynched and taking orders from the player while Popo is busy performing his own stuff. Also, of course the IC can do the infinite, even I can do it consistently, the thing is, MU discussion is made for the top level of play. Also, the big weakness in this MU is their uair, it literally destroys Rob and we can't do anything about it, it cannot be even airdodged.
I won't be the one saying the numbers, I am just telling cold hard facts

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Ok idk about the rest of you, but the worst part of the matchup is the CG. Now, granted IC has terrible running speed/grab animation at first glance you might just say 'avoid getting grabbed' but it's not like the D3/Falco matchup. IC desyncs lead to grabs. Blizzard and Ice block can lead to 0-death. Squall hammer can unbalance us, leading to a grab. Who cares about U-air? We should trying to squash any chance of CG imo.

ccst said:

Take IC's to small stages with platforms rather, but if you want to camp, pick larger stages. I prefer Battlefield and counterpicking Brinstar (just because the lava can disturb their infinitive chaingrab). Ban Final Destination and you should do fine.

But it really depends on the IC's, if they can do the infinitive (play defensively) or not. If they can't, all playstyles work. The main idea is too kill Nana early.

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Ok no one 'plays' ICs with no CG, just like no one plays D3 or Falco seriously without learning CGs. Second BF is TERRIBLE. It's way too small to camp. Smashville or Lylat should be your starter.

This is a HARD matchup. IC don't drop our CG because most of them will hobble. Hobble also burns the clock so it allows them to time us out after they take a stock lead. But you could also say that hobble burns the clock so that WE can time them out if we have a stock lead. I think you have to play the MU as if you were trying to time out every game.

This matchup might be 'bad' for IC's but everyone is under a misconception that we have the advantage. Can we approach ICs? More importantly, can they win spacing against us? No/yes imo. 45-55 ICs.

BoTastic! said:

T0mmy should really give more input on this match up. He probably knows it the best.

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I don't get it... Falco is one of my least known matchups. Nobody in the entire Pac NW plays him except Cin, who doesn't live too far from me but I play with him less than I do WA (I probably play with Midwest more than him, lol).

I'll be doing writeups on R.O.B.'s matchups because the AiB forums wanted to get some new info on them, but I JUST GOT BACK HOME FROM COLUMBUS.
Seriously... I walked in through my front door just an hour ago. I'm a little more interested in eating/sleeping atm.

but I JUST GOT BACK HOME FROM COLUMBUS.

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what? haha

T0MMY said:

I don't get it... Falco is one of my least known matchups. Nobody in the entire Pac NW plays him except Cin, who doesn't live too far from me but I play with him less than I do WA (I probably play with Midwest more than him, lol).

I'll be doing writeups on R.O.B.'s matchups because the AiB forums wanted to get some new info on them, but I JUST GOT BACK HOME FROM COLUMBUS.
Seriously... I walked in through my front door just an hour ago. I'm a little more interested in eating/sleeping atm.

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uhhhh Nerd? lol

also ROB separates ICs super well and can carry nana away with ease using fair :\
plus his projectiles and whatnot.

ICs uair is really good vs ROB though.

its definitely in ROBs favor

T0MMY said:

but I JUST GOT BACK HOME FROM COLUMBUS.
Seriously... I walked in through my front door just an hour ago.

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Well **** why the hell didn't you just come to THE SHOWDOWN then

In regards to the Ice Climbers matchup, it's definitely in ROB's favour.

Nana can't powershield if Popo does.
ROB is a floaty so he has more time in air which = less opportunities to get grabbed
ROB doesn't need to approach
ROB outcamps ICs like a mofo

The only issue in my opinion is when the ICs DO get through your projectiles, they do fairly well. Their aerials do a lot synced and there's always the option of getting grabbed.

60:40 in my opinion.

If I have to play an IC's, I almost always pick ROB for this match-up.

His dsmash separates them phenomenally, however it's a ***** if you were to get shield grabbed.

Stages:
FD against the ICs is great, and they will be striking YI and Lylat so it shouldn't be a problem to force them there.

Platforms can be BAD in this MU since if you try to cam them your blind spots are very open.

Ban BF or something, they'll take you to SV.

Camping:
You destroy them, nothing they can do, make them approach.

While They're Approaching
Keep the gyro on the field, it stops their ice block camping and basically ruins their approach since you can camp lasers, F-tilts, and Fairs behind it, and whenever they Blizzard, laser them.

When you f-tilt them and it hits one but not the other its perfect, run forward and grab or D-smash the other, then follow nana and gimp her, always go for nana shes really easy to predict and Popo will make a mad dash to save her.

When they get too close D-smash will grape them due to their separate shield timings, then chase nana. Your other option when they get close is to run forward and grab them and F/B-throw but NEVER U/D-throw when they're together for obvious reasons.

Retreating F-airs are always safe if you're gyro isnt set up.

Once You've Been Grabbed:
Rotate the left stick and mash the buttons along with L/R/Z, you can break out at low %, possibly scream at their face at higher % or do something awkward if you don't mind making a scene (theres nothing against it in the rules).

Edgeguarding Them:
Just Fair them if they're not together, they really don't have many options, try to hit nana while Popo tries to Up-B so he can't call her, if shes occupied their recovery becomes terrible.

Once they activate their Up or Side B they're pretty safe, its dificult to hit them out of either.

Getting Back Onstage:
This is where platforms suck for you, shoot the gyro behind them and fly over them and land behind it, just don't airdodge to the ground or try an attack that will put you in lag, thats a good way to get grabbed.

**In case you don't know: in a situation where you want to use a B move during an Up B, cancel it with a Fair (ROBs fastest aerial) and use the move, this is a good way to pummel your opponent with projectiles while recovering.

So let go of the ledge > Double Jump > Up B > F-air > Gyro over their head > use Up B and B-air to escape.

but thats only one mixup and is unsafe since it spends alot of fuel and can be punished hard if they predict it, so I usually just ledgehop > gyro until they sidestep it. That also means they're not thinking about it as much and are more likely to run into it while chasing you.

imo ROB 60:40 IC's



Thats all for now, I may add to this later.

Silhouette said:

Stages:
Once You've Been Grabbed:
Rotate the left stick and mash the buttons along with L/R/Z, you can break out at low %, possibly scream at their face at higher % or do something awkward if you don't mind making a scene (theres nothing against it in the rules).

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That is, unless the MikeHaze Rule isn't in effect.

I don't believe I've come across the MikeHaze Rule before.

Wow dang, I feel sorry for Hylian..

I've never yelled that loud, It's usually just more of a combination of spontaneous strange noises, or you get really close to the side of their face and stare them in the eye.