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Wobbling Compromise

TemPesT-

Smash Lord
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Aug 24, 2006
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Minnesota
has anyone suggested wobbling to say 100% or something lower then 200% at least, so that it might not kill you, but definitely sets up an edge guard.
 

mhenlo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
76
Location
New York
has anyone suggested wobbling to say 100% or something lower then 200% at least, so that it might not kill you, but definitely sets up an edge guard.
i think it would still kill at 100% cause u wobble to 100 then Blizzard to down throw up smash
and do you get DQed for going to 101?
 

TemPesT-

Smash Lord
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Aug 24, 2006
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1,175
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Minnesota
100% was just a number, I just meant to a certain % that guaranteed an edge guard, that's all. and no i don't think they should be DQ'd for a single % going over, maybe like 10-15 over, cuz i'm sure thats an extra pummel or two, right?
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
i think it would still kill at 100% cause u wobble to 100 then Blizzard to down throw up smash
and do you get DQed for going to 101?
You can't just blizzard>dthrow usmash after a wobble haha.
 

PEEF!

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
5,201
They can break out.

It works if they don't press buttons. Ironically I just tried doing this earlier today. It looks cute, the problem is that Blizzard comes out on frame 16, leaving +- 10 free breakout frames, and nobody should have any problem breaking out of that when transferring from getting wobbled.
 

mhenlo

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
76
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New York
They can break out.

It works if they don't press buttons. Ironically I just tried doing this earlier today. It looks cute, the problem is that Blizzard comes out on frame 16, leaving +- 10 free breakout frames, and nobody should have any problem breaking out of that when transferring from getting wobbled.
even at 100% they would be able to break out?
 

mhenlo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
76
Location
New York
They can break out.

It works if they don't press buttons. Ironically I just tried doing this earlier today. It looks cute, the problem is that Blizzard comes out on frame 16, leaving +- 10 free breakout frames, and nobody should have any problem breaking out of that when transferring from getting wobbled.
even at 100% they would be able to break out?
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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Jun 10, 2006
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Orlando Florida
even at 100% they would be able to break out?
They'd be trying to break out during the wobble itself. After they reach the necessary inputs to break out then they just have to wait for you to leave a 1 frame window in your wobble where they're out of "capture damage."

So yeah, they'd break out as soon as you stop wobbling.
 

BigD!!!

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
1,833
i thought wobbling worked because button presses during stun time dont count, therefore you can never reach the necessary amount of button presses because the counter remains the same for the duration of the wobble. therefore you would still need to mash once the wobble stopped.

i dont know this for sure though, its just the impression i was under. i figure if the counter is going up though, the game would let you break out
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
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The button presses during HITLAG don't count. However, the button presses during "capture damage" do. It's just that you're not actually able to break out until after that state is over (during a proper wobble wobble you never leave that state).
 

Zjiin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Messages
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Brazil, SouThSidE!
This is the dumbest thread I have ever seen .

[EDIT] My mistake, it's seconded by the time FDV kicked us all out of his house.
 

mastermoo420

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
726
even at 100% they would be able to break out?
When they try to break out, it's like breaking at when you were grabbed. If you wobble a CPU at 0% up to, like, 200% or whatever, they break out pretty much immediately as if they were breaking out of the grab at 0%. I have no real frame data and stuff, but it seems to be right just from speculation. P:
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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Close to Trenton, NJ Posts: 4,071
They can break out.

It works if they don't press buttons. Ironically I just tried doing this earlier today. It looks cute, the problem is that Blizzard comes out on frame 16, leaving +- 10 free breakout frames, and nobody should have any problem breaking out of that when transferring from getting wobbled.
Actually you can Tilt->Blizzard without leaving an opening in stun. The timing for a wobble is nowhere near as strict as you're suggesting. With f-tilt you can press A as fast as every 15 frames or as slow as every 22 to wobble (slower is generally better since you need that pace to start an instawobble so Nana is out of grab lag on the 2nd press). If you use a slow pace for A inputs (or switch to it at the end) you can do a blizzard after the last headbutt if you press B earlier than normal. If the 2nd to last A -> final A input is 22 apart the final A -> B can be 8-13 apart. If the A->A is 21 apart the A->B can be 9-12, and if A->A is 20 the A->B can be 10-11.



Edit: Come to think of it, I suppose that means...

Headbutt -> F-tilt -> Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> Headbutt -> F-tilt -> ...

and

Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> ...

...would also be infinites when done properly.


Edit2: Yup. Checked it. The headbutt blizzard headbutt blizzard one is pretty sexy. It's significantly harder than wobbling though. You headbutt right as the blizzard disappears then press down-b as close to 10-11 frames afterwards as you can for the easiest timing.
 

Ballistics

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 14, 2006
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2,266
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Tallahassee Florida State, what WHAT!
Actually you can Tilt->Blizzard without leaving an opening in stun. The timing for a wobble is nowhere near as strict as you're suggesting. With f-tilt you can press A as fast as every 15 frames or as slow as every 22 to wobble (slower is generally better since you need that pace to start an instawobble so Nana is out of grab lag on the 2nd press). If you use a slow pace for A inputs (or switch to it at the end) you can do a blizzard after the last headbutt if you press B earlier than normal. If the 2nd to last A -> final A input is 22 apart the final A -> B can be 8-13 apart. If the A->A is 21 apart the A->B can be 9-12, and if A->A is 20 the A->B can be 10-11.



Edit: Come to think of it, I suppose that means...

Headbutt -> F-tilt -> Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> Headbutt -> F-tilt -> ...

and

Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> Headbutt -> Blizzard+Headbutt(s) -> ...

...would also be infinites when done properly.


Edit2: Yup. Checked it. The headbutt blizzard headbutt blizzard one is pretty sexy. It's significantly harder than wobbling though. You headbutt right as the blizzard disappears then press down-b as close to 10-11 frames afterwards as you can for the easiest timing.
Omg magus' science has created a compromise. This isn't considered wobbling right?
 

SmashMac

Smash Lord
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Naples, FL.
First off, who the *** is PEEF? How is it that a ban that has been set in stone for years is now being "Compromised" because some haphazard IC player comes out of left field and starts complaining for his "lol I might win!" skill. This thread is almost as pointless as people's argument on why something like the "In God We Trust" phrase should be taken off the back of the U.S. Currency. Has no point, has no bearing and most of all, has no probability of getting anywhere.

Learn more grab de-sync combos like Chu Dat/Uber Ice if you want to be a good IC player.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
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nothing has been 'set in stone' for years, and even if it had, why should that stop anyone from questioning it?

once upon a time, slavery was 'set in stone'
 

SmashMac

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nothing has been 'set in stone' for years, and even if it had, why should that stop anyone from questioning it?

once upon a time, slavery was 'set in stone'
No, slavery was an era in history and was never set in stone. The entire U.S. would have agreed to it if it were set in stone. Your argument has no bearing because it's not even a legit comparison to this thread's "compromise" where something, even if it has always been negotiable, has been like this (banned or severely restricted) since as long as I've been around in the smash community (5 years now) for the same reason:

It's an easy gimmick that requires the same timing as a shine-spike, but the results are unlimited.
 

smakis

Smash Ace
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Messages
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I dont think all smashers agree to the wobble ban (obviously) thus making it not set in stone according to your logic?
 

SmashMac

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Naples, FL.
I dont think all smashers agree to the wobble ban (obviously) thus making it not set in stone according to your logic?
My logic is the majority of good smashers do agree, the minority don't, on the ban of Wobbling. The era of slavery is a terrible comparison because it's the exact opposite and was based off more factors than just pure opinion (like facts or prior experiences for instance). Primarily, just the south eastern part of the U.S. practiced slavery, where-as the other 75% of America for the most part didn't even know that slavery was being practiced in the U.S.. Majority rules in both cases as we see. Why change something where for the most part with people that actually know what they're talking about (whether through experience or schooling) have already come to a unanimous conclusion about it? Trying to compromise on something that a majority of good smashers have already agreed to is just a terrible waste of time.

By the way, when I say good smashers, I'm excluding people that no one has ever heard about or who haven't made an impact on Super Smash Brothers yet.
 

Pengie

Smash Lord
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Atlanta, GA
Magus is so sexy for finding that new infinite. People probably won't complain until ICs start doing it consistently then they'll want to ban it on the premise of "iz 2 ez n taks no skillz"
 

mastermoo420

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
Messages
726
No, slavery was an era in history and was never set in stone.
Your "was" makes it sounds like slavery still doesn't exist.

But no srs debating for me. Anyways, ICs should just learn the blizzard "wobble" and say it's fine. :D I mean, LCG is allowed basically because of its difficulty. If the "blobble" is harder than the wobble, then it should be fine, right? :D
 

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
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slavery wasn't placed on the ban list. it was well within your rights to own slaves. doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed simply because its always been that way.

sexy wobbly at least makes those ppl stfu whose only argument was that simply hitting A was too easy.

tho this is a different more difficult grab combo, the same lack of logic will apply.
 

john!

Smash Hero
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My logic is the majority of good smashers do agree, the minority don't, on the ban of Wobbling.
Judging by the OP, there are more players of all skill ranges that favor no ban. Keep in mind that wobbling isn't actually banned as of now according to the MBR; the community just doesn't wobble, and IC players rarely make an issue of it... until now that is.


Thanks very much for finding those infinites, Magus! That might be the most significant new advanced tech this year.
 

SmashMac

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Naples, FL.
Judging by the OP, there are more players of all skill ranges that favor no ban. Keep in mind that wobbling isn't actually banned as of now according to the MBR; the community just doesn't wobble, and IC players rarely make an issue of it... until now that is.


Thanks very much for finding those infinites, Magus! That might be the most significant new advanced tech this year.
Taking into account that I said "good smashers" and not just "smashers". That separates the players that know what they're talking about from the people that don't. Sure if you count everyone of course everyone and their mother that plays ICs wants wobbling. It's because they're bad and don't know what they'd do without it. I hope next time you read my words as carefully as I type them.
 

Kyu Puff

Smash Champion
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Massachusetts
...blizzobbling?

Edit2: Yup. Checked it. The headbutt blizzard headbutt blizzard one is pretty sexy. It's significantly harder than wobbling though. You headbutt right as the blizzard disappears then press down-b as close to 10-11 frames afterwards as you can for the easiest timing.
Could you hold down and mash b instantly after the headbutt?
 

pockyD

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No, slavery was an era in history and was never set in stone. The entire U.S. would have agreed to it if it were set in stone. Your argument has no bearing because it's not even a legit comparison to this thread's "compromise" where something, even if it has always been negotiable, has been like this (banned or severely restricted) since as long as I've been around in the smash community (5 years now) for the same reason:

It's an easy gimmick that requires the same timing as a shine-spike, but the results are unlimited.
My logic is the majority of good smashers do agree, the minority don't, on the ban of Wobbling. The era of slavery is a terrible comparison because it's the exact opposite and was based off more factors than just pure opinion (like facts or prior experiences for instance). Primarily, just the south eastern part of the U.S. practiced slavery, where-as the other 75% of America for the most part didn't even know that slavery was being practiced in the U.S.. Majority rules in both cases as we see. Why change something where for the most part with people that actually know what they're talking about (whether through experience or schooling) have already come to a unanimous conclusion about it? Trying to compromise on something that a majority of good smashers have already agreed to is just a terrible waste of time.

By the way, when I say good smashers, I'm excluding people that no one has ever heard about or who haven't made an impact on Super Smash Brothers yet.
Pre-civil war USA, most of the northern states didn't have slaves, but they DID tolerate the southern states having slaves... not too unlike this rule not being relevant fox vs peach but being relevant in ICs vs samus

...and that wasn't even the point I was going for; go back in time through Rome, Egypt, etc; slavery has been around for THOUSANDS of years... seems pretty 'Set in Stone' to me... and it's only been abolished for less than 150 in the USA, ignoring that it still goes on in plenty of places around the world

and once again this is dancing around the fact that the ban on wobbling is far from 'Set in Stone'

In fact, if any thing WAS 'Set in Stone', it was wobbling not being banned up through 2007, including during all the MLG years.

Also, you don't seem to understand that laws and rules are put into place to specifically protect the MINORITY, not the majority. IC players are the minority, and it's unfair (unless proven otherwise) to stomp all over them with a contrived majority vote. Majorities are useless in situations like this when determining 'right' and 'wrong' because 99% of people are merely looking out for their own self-interest (hey I paid a thousand bucks for this slave; why would I let him go?!)

also look up 'unanimous' in the dictionary, i triple dog dare you

I really hope that someone's hacked your account or something, because most of the posts I had read from you before had led me to believe you weren't this narrow-minded
 

john!

Smash Hero
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The Garden of Earthly Delights
Taking into account that I said "good smashers" and not just "smashers". That separates the players that know what they're talking about from the people that don't. Sure if you count everyone of course everyone and their mother that plays ICs wants wobbling. It's because they're bad and don't know what they'd do without it. I hope next time you read my words as carefully as I type them.
- I said "of all skill ranges" which implies good players as well.
- The term "good smashers" is shifty and hard to define. There are many mediocre players that have excellent reasoning skills.
- Over twice as many people are pro-wobbling than anti-wobbling. Why should the ratio among "good players" be so different?
- IC players are a small minority. You really think they've affected the statistics that much?
- Saying all IC players are bad without wobbling is a massive generalization. Actually, it's just not true, at all.
- Even if the majority of good smashers did oppose wobbling, they'd have to provide a good reason for its ban. Nobody has done that yet. Maybe you could take a stab at it?
 

Magus420

Smash Master
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Could you hold down and mash b instantly after the headbutt?
If the headbutt was well timed to be as late as possible that might work since there'd be a decent window for pressing B, but even then you'd need to mash extremely fast. Could be more usable in later versions I guess. Learning the timing between the button presses would be the best way though imo. I was doing it by holding down and timing Z->B.
 

Wobbles

Desert ******
BRoomer
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Gilbert, AZ
It's okay, we can just ban the use of more than 5 HEADBUTTS since that takes into account iterations of the tilt-based infinite, the blizzard-based infinite, and the jab-based infinite.

I'm helping.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
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San Francisco, CA
what if we keep track of each move that is done in grab and assign each one a value, then when the aggregate sum of the values of the moves performed during that grab crosses a predetermined threshold, then that's when the rule has been broken
 
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