How to Show No Sympathy: The Community Ike Guide

Heartstring · Jul 9, 2010

Nysyarc said:
Not really, that is one thing that I would say is equal both ways. Plus by using the A button and manually inputting the Usmash, you have the option of charging it. I've actually never messed up a manual sliding Usmash, and I don't think I've ever heard of it being messed up by anyone else either.

you havent EVER heard of anyone messing it up?
well you hve now, welcome to dispraxia land gentlemen TT_TT

Ussi · Jul 9, 2010

Anti-air is exactly what it sounds like, countering aerial moves. Ike has an abundant amount of moves to choose from.

Ike’s infamous usmash will wreck floaties hard with their inability to get to the ground fast. Not only that, his usmash will lower his hitbox by half making him have a ducking nature which will avoid a lot of aerials in general since many people will aim for Ike’s head for the leeway of spacing. Ike’s utilt comes 2nd in his anti-aerial arsenal. It’s best to use this attack when you don’t have nearly as much time for usmash. Due to its lingering hitbox it’ll make it harder for those who were trying to wait out your attack. Lastly you got aether, this attack reaches far up into the air and nothing can stop it.

Uair can work as an anti-aerial in a sense since it is a disjoint still but it will only work on those fast falling an aerial from above and since uair takes time to come out you’ll find yourself shielding more often than not and if you predict them that early on you could do aether instead.. But if they are kill % (100-120% from lightest weight to heaviest weight) and still doing that then by all means predict the Uair but most people at kill % play much more defensively. But also, characters with long disjoints such as MK you can’t use uair as an anti-aerial.

Best time to use usmash is when someone is trying to land onto the stage. Due to the range, floaties who can’t get out of range in time get wrecked by usmash because they have to AD eventually. Some people will attack you while you’re charging and that does get surprising at times but that means you are being predictable with your usmash and should have used utilt instead cause you didn’t have enough time to usmash. Aether is a very risky move. Don’t get me wrong though, it’s still a viable anti-aerial attack. The only vertical disjoint of its kind, you gotta love it for that. It’s great for hitting those who plan to do their 2nd jump expecting a SH aerial or a charged smash to punish your lag. That situation also tends to happen a lot near the ledge as they are trying to stay as above you as they can to avoid the usmash most likely. Remember, if they expect your aether, they will AD to get past it. Not all characters can do this, but characters that can are the fastest air moving characters such as Jigglypuff and Wario. So against characters like them aether is advised to sparingly use cause of how easy it is for them to punish you for it.

Not part of the guide part of my post:

Guys we have 1 defense sub section left and then 4 or so offense left. I'll probably start baiting the defense reaction soon.

I'm going to start holding XAT discussions about subsections next week. What times are good for people? I want at least Sharkie and me and 2-3 others (anyone can come, more input the better) there to go over the guide. I'm free any night except Thursday next week so i'll be flexible on selecting the day, so how about Wednesday Night guys?

Nysyarc · Jul 9, 2010

Ussi said:
I'm going to start holding XAT discussions about subsections next week. What times are good for people? I want at least Sharkie and me and 2-3 others (anyone can come, more input the better) there to go over the guide. I'm free any night except Thursday next week so i'll be flexible on selecting the day, so how about Wednesday Night guys?

Nice write-up there, and Wednesday is fine for me. I think we should do it on at least two different days though so we can maybe get as many different people involved as possible (you and I will be there both times to take down ideas). Just a thought, one day could work too.

I'll send you a PM in a sec, something I'd like to discuss quickly.

/formalbusinessmeetingisformal

Edit: I just moved the guide from the Defense section on down to the second post below the OP. It was starting to take way too long to save each time you edit it. It may look like I split it unevenly but my moveset guide takes up a looot of space when it's not hidden.

Mr. Doom · Jul 12, 2010

I don't know if you guys wanted these videos. But here they are. I mean, it's already on youtube, but I just made sorting it out easier for you.
[collapse=Teaming with Zero Suit Samus]Doubles Grand Finals Set (SLAST - Smells Like a Smash Tournament)
Set 1
Game 1
Game 2
Game 3

Set 2
Game 4
Game 5
Game 6
Game 7
Game 8
[/collapse]

Nysyarc · Jul 12, 2010

Mr. Doom said:
I don't know if you guys wanted these videos. But here they are. I mean, it's already on youtube, but I just made sorting it out easier for you.

Awesome, added them to the video section. You currently make up 100% of our teams videos and 60% of singles. I am almost done the section on Ike's Platform Game, so I'll post that here as soon as I am... probably a bit later tonight.

Nysyarc · Jul 13, 2010

Platforms And You
<3 <3 <3

A Sub-Guide to Ike’s Platform Game
Written by Nysyarc

Ike is a character that relies heavily on effective use of stage gimmicks for his success. Stages like Final Destination are not to his liking because he has nothing to use to his advantage besides bare, flat terrain. One aspect of stages that Ike is particularly good at making use of is platforms.

There are many different types of platforms in the game, and they can easily be categorized by their height in relation to the ground level of the stage. Ike has many ways to abuse platforms, both from underneath them and on top of them. Quick Draw, although not suggested to be used as an attack, can be used as a tool to move quickly and set-up for other attacks involving platforms.

Here is an outline of the different sections that will be covered in this part of the Ike Guide:

- Types of Platforms
- Platform Sharking
- Pratfalling and Walk-Offs
- Using Quick Draw

I suggest that you read the sections in order, since the first section goes over the definitions of different platform types I’ll be using for the rest of the guide. Additionally, the last section assumes that you already understand elements discussed in the second and third sections, so it’s best to read it all in order. Now, onto the guide!

------ Types of Platforms ------
The three categories that I have used to define the different types of platforms in the game are Low Platforms, Middle Platforms and High Platforms. Pretty straightforward, but they are kind of loosely defined. I’ll be using the terms low, middle and high throughout the rest of the guide to refer to platforms on different stages, so I’ll go over what my definitions of those heights are.

Low Platforms

A low platform is generally any platform that Ike’s grounded attacks like Utilt and Usmash can reach through. This means any of Ike’s aerials can also easily contact opponent’s on top of a low platform when you short-hop. A single full-hop will allow you to land on a low platform.

Low platforms are the easiest to cover from the ground simply because they are so close to the ground. If an opponent is on a low platform above you, there are plenty of options at your disposal for pressuring them and trying to keep them there. Basically if platforms are all your friends, these are your BFFs. So fight for them.

Stages with Low Platforms:

Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
Norfair
Yoshi’s Island (varies)
Battleship Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1

Middle Platforms

A middle platform is pretty loosely defined. Often times your Utilt and Usmash can just barely reach though it, but it is too high to do a full-hop Bair and have it auto-cancel upon landing. That is sort of the minimum height requirement for a middle platform: you can often full-hop to land on it, but a Bair used immediately as you start the jump will not auto-cancel upon landing, like it will on a low platform.

The maximum height of a middle platform can be pretty simply defined though: if a full-hop Uair or Nair cannot reach through a platform, it cannot be considered a middle platform. This means using full-hop aerials is your best bet for pressuring a middle platform, and although this is not as fast or easy as pressuring a low platform, it is still doable.

Stages with Middle Platforms:

Battlefield
Delfino Plaza
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi’s Island (varies)
Battleship Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokemon Stadium 2
Castle Siege
Smashville
Pictochat
Jungle Japes
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1

High Platforms

A high platform is any platform that requires you to do your double-jump in order for one of Ike’s attacks to reach it. Fortunately, there are not many high platforms in the game, so you don’t have to worry too much about trying to pressure opponents on one. High platforms do have their uses to Ike though, so don’t discount them entirely.

Aether is perfect for reaching them, and being on top of one gives you plenty of space to work with if you want to pratfall or walk-off. A high platform on a stage also means you can use Ike’s great vertical KO power to tip the odds in your favor for a difficult MU where your opponent does not have vertical KO power. Bait your opponent onto the platform with you and even Dthrow can become a viable KO move.

Stages with High Platforms:

Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise

------ Platform Sharking ------
When we use the term ‘platform sharking’, all we really mean is attacking an opponent who is standing on a platform from below the platform. Basically every character in the game is completely helpless if they are on a platform above you. Ike has a lot of great moves that he can use to shark platforms and pressure his opponents, which is the biggest reason he has a great all-around platform game.

Grounded Sharking Moves

Ike has three moves that he can use from the ground to hit opponents that are standing on a low platform. These moves are Utilt, Usmash, and Fsmash. Each has it’s uses in different situations and you should learn to identify what situations are best for which move. Using a grounded move to pressure an opponent on a low platform is not always the best option either, so I will now go over some viable situations you can use them in.

If your opponent lands hard on a platform and fails to tech the landing, you have several options if you are nearby. Your opponent has a few different things that they can do: they can stand up normally in place, roll to either side, or attack to get up. If your opponent has a low damage % on them at the time, it is probably best to dash beneath them on the platform and wait for their action, then use an Utilt to cover most of the platform.

If they are at a high damage % however, it is a better idea to slide an Usmash under the platform and charge it, waiting for them to perform a get-up action. As soon as their invincibility frames end, release the charge and send them to their doom. Make sure to charge the Usmash directly under the center of the platform so as to cover it entirely with the hitbox. It is important to be ready for your opponent to land on a platform and to always remain beneath them to pressure their return to the stage.

Utilt is a great option for punishing spot-dodges and rolls on a low platform, because unlike Usmash and Fsmash, it’s hitbox lingers above the platform for many frames. If your opponent likes to spot-dodge and you think that they will, and you are below them, throw out an Utilt or two to pressure them and catch them after the spot-dodge. Same for rolling, except Utilt is not able to cover the whole length of many platforms, so you have to make a hard read on which direction they will roll.

If your opponent favors holding their shield on while on a platform, this is where Usmash comes in handy, especially if they are at a high %. There are two frames of the hitbox for Usmash that will perfectly poke underneath a semi-worn shield on a low platform. Make sure your opponent is not directly above you when you use the Usmash, but about half the length of your sword off to either side. If their shield is worn enough, Usmash will poke through and often surprise them, so they will not be prepared to DI.

Another thing Usmash is great for is setting up for a tech chase on the ground if your opponent is shielding on a platform. The shield push from Usmash will often knock your opponent off the platform is it does not poke through, which means they are then in the same situation of having the four get-up options, except on the ground. More often than not, sliding a little towards them and charging another Usmash is the best option here because they won’t be expecting it and it covers many of their options. Otherwise, normal rules for a tech chase apply, read them and punish with Jabs.

What about Fsmash though? It is very rare that the opportunity to Fsmash an opponent on a platform presents itself, but it is very satisfying and can result in as early KO. Your opponent must be directly above you for it to connect, and the only time you should do it is if your opponent fails a tech and you are already underneath them, or if you make a read on a spot-dodge/roll. Be careful because it is much easier for them to punish a whiffed Fsmash than an Utilt or an Usmash. If you connect though, the hitbox of Fsmash that hits them will send them almost perfectly horizontal, thus KOing very early.

That is really all you need to know about Ike’s ground options for pressuring platforms. Sliding Usmashes are probably his best ground sharking move, although it is arguable. All-around though, Ike’s aerials are much better suited for sharking and you will be using them much more often, so let’s move right along.

Aerial Sharking Moves

All of Ike’s aerials except Dair can technically be used for sharking platforms of any height, although Nair and Uair are often the best choices. Aerials are usually a better way to platform shark because they can be used more quickly in succession, but Ike’s aerials have other benefits that make them even more ideal for preying on an opponent who is trapped above you.

One of the best ways of pressuring an opponent on a low platform is to repeatedly short-hop and Nair, followed by fast-falling back down so you can do it again very quickly. The fact that Nair’s hitbox can poke shields, surrounds a large area and lingers makes this a great way of covering many of your opponent’s options. Additionally, if they do manage to reach the ground, you can Jab or perform a defensive maneuver quickly after landing an Nair.

A short-hop Bair that auto-cancels can also hit through a low platform and, because of it’s speed, is excellent for punishing dodges and missed techs. Bair will also occasionally poke through a shield on a low platform, but it’s hitbox is too large for this to be relied upon. The great thing about sharking with Bair is that it can also KO or send your opponent’s off-stage to set up for an edge-guard. The only other sharking move capable of this is Fsmash, but Bair is a much better move all-around.

Short-hopping and using an Uair to shark low platforms is also sometimes a good idea, but Uair is best used to shark middle and high platforms. The hitbox of Uair easily covers all of most platforms in the game, and lingers for so long that it is ideal for punishing dodges. It is also a great vertical KO move and has a lot of shield push if they manage to block it, making it sort of like an aerial Usmash for middle and high platforms.

The problem with using Uair to shark low platforms is simply that it has more landing lag than Nair and an auto-canceled Bair, but like I said, it’s not always a bad idea. Uair does cover more of a platform for a longer period of time than either Nair or Bair, so it works great if you think your opponent will roll or spot-dodge. Uair can also effectively cover all of an opponent’s get-up options after a missed tech if you time it right.

Fair is not as commonly used for sharking because it is sort of like a less effective version of each other aerial option. It has great horizontal range and so is perfect if your opponent is getting up and none of your other aerials would reach in time to punish. However, it’s hitbox does not last very long like Uair, it is not fast to come out like Bair, and it does not have minimal landing lag like Nair.

It is important to mix up the different platform sharking options you have available to you, because each has it’s own unique uses. Nair is best used at low percents on low platforms in order to string into other attacks and keep your opponent above the platform for further sharking. Uair is great to cover options and KO on stages with platforms and a low ceiling like Halberd. Bair is perfect for punishing on reaction and getting your opponent off-stage to set up for an edge guard.

You don’t want to use Nair to shark high platforms, because it takes a long time to execute in the air and if you whiff it, you will be left vulnerable. Bair is likely your best bet for sharking a high platform since you can double-jump up, wait for a spot-dodge or roll and then punish with the Bair. Uair also works fine for covering high platforms since you can then fall back down and not have any landing lag, unlike trying to Uair a low platform.

Middle platforms can be effectively sharked using any of your aerials, although Nair is still a bit less favorable than Uair or Bair. Refrain from using Fair when an opponent is on a platform unless you are too far away to reach with a different aerial and you do not think there is time to get any closer before attacking. Fair has it’s uses in other areas of combat, but as a sharking move it is inferior to your other options.

General Sharking Strategy

One very important thing to realize about Ike is that he is in a much stronger and more advantageous position when he is beneath his opponents. Ike has plenty of powerful overhead attacks and is all-around excellent at pressuring airborne opponents and covering platforms. However, you must remain aware of this throughout every battle and constantly try to stay grounded below your opponents.

Any stage that has a platform can be used to your advantage if you play smartly. If you have knocked your opponent into the air and they are returning to the stage, stay beneath them at ground level to try and bait them into landing on a platform. As soon as they do, make like a shark and be ruthless. Battlefield is an excellent stage for this because it is very difficult to safely get past the platforms when falling from up above. Predict your opponent’s downward path and be ready to jump on them the moment their feet touch ground or a platform.

Using attack specifically to set up sharking is also a good idea at low percents. For example, between 20 - 50%, your Dthrow is an excellent way to pop opponents up just above a low platform so you can pressure their return. Dthrow is better for this than Uthrow because you are able to use an aerial attack sooner afterwards. Generally pressuring an opponent on the ground with Nairs and Jabs may cause them to lose their nerve and jump over you or onto a platform, giving you your opportunity.

Always be aware of how much damage your opponent has when considering what move to use for sharking in different situations. Bair, Usmash and Uair are better at higher percents when they may KO, while Utilt and Nair can be used to string other attacks and continue sharking at low percents. Also be wary of some other characters who are good at sharking such as Marth and Donkey Kong; make sure you keep them above or beside you as often as possible.

For high platforms and some middle platforms, Aether is a viable option for sharking. It comes out relatively quick and will easily punish any spot dodges or rolls on a platform due to it’s long hitbox. You have the option of landing on the platform or retreating your Aether some to land back on ground level as well, to either add more damage if you connected or escape punishment if they shielded your attempt.

That’s really all there is to know about platform sharking. Just always remember the basic principles: stay beneath your opponent at all times while they are airborne, be aware of ways to set-up for sharking at low percents, and pay attention to different situations and what moves are best used for those situations.

---- Pratfalling and Walk-Offs ----
It’s all well and good when you’re beneath your opponent as Ike, but what happens when you’re the one on the platform? Well, fortunately Ike has several ways to attack from on top of a platform in order to give himself space to get grounded again. Pratfalling is simply ducking straight through the platform, while a walk-off is just that, walking off the side of the platform.

Pratfall Options

Typically, the best time to pratfall is from a middle or high platform, since fast-falling through a low platform will make it impossible for any of your aerials’ hitboxes to emerge save Bair. That said, there are times when pratfalling a low platform is a good idea. The key thing to remember when pratfalling and attacking is that the C-stick is your friend. This is where having the Tilt Stick setting (see the Control Schemes section of the guide) comes in handy for using Nairs.

Bair is arguably the best move you have on a pratfall for many reasons. As I’ve already mentioned, you can fast-fall through a low platform and instantly Bair to hit opponents on the ground below you. It is very fast and can be used to punish dodges or other actions. The hitbox of Bair when used on a pratfall will also hit other opponents who were on the platform with you, making it a great hit-and-run move to put yourself below them and apply pressure simultaneously.

A great option for pratfalling middle platforms is Nair because it’s hitbox will surround you as you fall, and it has minimal landing lag. Using Nair through a high platform is not suggested unless you fast-fall, because it will take some time to end in the air. You can pratfall through a low platform and then immediately double jump and Nair to either land back on the platform very quickly after Nair’s hitbox emerges, or land on the ground after pressuring the whole platform.

Your Uair is excellent for use when pratfalling a high or middle platform if your opponent is on the platform with you and you think they will try to pratfall as well. As long as you keep your spacing away from them, Uair will outrange many aerials. Try to use it with your back to them, since Uair’s hitbox lasts longer behind Ike, so you can punish them if they air-dodge. If your Uair connects, it will put them back up above the platform so you can shark them.

Fast-falling a pratfall on any platform and then double-jumping and using Uair to cover the platform is a great idea as well if your opponent shared the platform with you. This is also an excellent way to pressure an opponent’s return to the stage from above. Stand on a platform below them and make like you’re not planning to move, then when they fall closer, pratfall, double jump and Uair to catch them as they land.

For platforms that overhang the ledge on a stage, you can use a pratfall Dair to spike your opponents. Some stages that are great for this are Smashville, Frigate Orpheon (the first transformation), Delfino Plaza (one of the main transformations), Brinstar, and Norfair. It allows you to line up where you think they will jump or use their recovery, and then drop down and spike at the perfect time from straight above.

Pratfalling and using Fair in one direction while retreating in the opposite direction is great if your opponent is not directly beneath you. This can’t be done on low platforms though, because Fair’s hitbox will not have time to emerge and you won’t be able to retreat far enough before landing. If your opponent is on the same platform as you then you should stick with pratfall Bairs and double jump Nairs/Uairs.

Walk-Off Options

Using aerials as you walk off a platform is a good tactic that can often catch opponents off-guard. While pratfall aerials are usually more effective when done from higher platforms, walk-offs tend to be best used off of lower platforms. The difference is that when you walk-off, you are not instantly losing height at a set speed, so all of your aerial attacks have time for the hitboxes to fully emerge. Also, you have better horizontal control from a walk-off at a low height.

Unlike for sharking and pratfalls, Fair is a very good attack to use when walking off a platform. If your opponent is on the ground a good distance away, a walk-off Fair can often surprise them with it’s range. You can walk off and the pull back on the control stick while using the C-stick to Fair so you retreat in case it is whiffed. Walking off a high platform and fast-falling an Fair is decent but not much different from pratfalling.

Walk-off Nairs from low platforms are very effective, and is a good way to approach from a platform at low percent since Nair’s hitbox will end before it loops behind you, allowing you to Jab your opponent sooner as a follow-up. Like Fair, using the C-stick to Nair offers you more control over your aerial movement for spacing, which is mostly what makes walk-offs better than pratfalls for Fair and Nair.

Again, walking-off a high platform with Nair is very similar to pratfalling and using it, but there are exceptions on stages like Battlefield and Norfair, where you can walk off one of the top platforms onto a lower one. Hitting your opponent with Nair on a lower platform by walking off a higher one can then set up for Jabs, a pratfall Bair or sharking at low percents if you can get below the platform after popping them up into the air.

Walk-off Uairs are viable as a way of poking through an opponent’s shield. Walking off a low platform and using an Uair when a tall character is holding their shield on nearby is perfect for poking through and getting a KO at high percents. It works even better if the other player is standing under the platform, because Uair’s last hitbox comes out behind Ike, so you can pull back the control stick after walking off to poke them with that last bit.

Using Bair from a walk-off is not much different from pratfalling and using Bair except that you will have more horizontal control on the way down. Bair will still hit opponents on the platform you walked off and on the ground if done from a low platform. The trouble with walk-off Bairs is that the hitbox is primarily behind you, so it is not nearly as good as Nair or Fair for approaching off of a platform.

General Pratfall/Walk-Off Strategy

Obviously using attacks while pratfalling and walking off platforms is not always your best option for getting down. Sometimes it’s better not to risk the landing lag and just air-dodge on your way down instead. If your opponent is not underneath the platform you are on, it is often safe to do a walk-off aerial, and if they are beneath you, a pratfall Bair will often work as long as you time it right.

Just remember all of your different options and pay attention to the different situations you are in throughout the battle. Being aware of your different options is the first step towards being able to effectively choose the best options in real-time. Only through experimenting with different options will you be able to determine for yourself what the best ones are, and when to use them.

Keep in mind too that being above an opponent is Ike’s weakest position, so if you find yourself on a platform with your opponent below, you’ll need to think quickly. The fact that Ike has several effective options for returning to the ground can make it tricky to choose the best one for each situation; just keep in mind that it’s more important to get yourself to the ground as quickly as possible than it is to attack in the most effective way while doing it.

------ Using Quick Draw ------
Every time you use Quick Draw with an opponent near your destination it is a gamble, because you don’t want to whiff the attack. If used with discretion, QD can be a great tool for movement, especially with the help of platforms. The main thing you always have to keep in mind, is that you never want to hit your opponent with QD. To give you an idea of how easy to punish QD is, if a Captain Falcon power-shields it and reacts immediately, he can punish it with a Falcon Punch.

Proper Quick Draw Use

So now that I’ve hopefully deterred you from ever wanting to use QD as an approaching attack, let’s go over how you should use it instead. If you use a QD in the air but very close to the ground, it doesn’t have much landing lag as long as you don’t hit anything. Essentially there is no difference between the ending lag of a grounded QD versus an aerial one close to the ground, but you don’t want to use it too high off the ground.

One thing that allows QD to end sooner though, is using it close to the ground and then landing so that you slide right to the edge of the stage or a platform. This is great for quickly getting in position for an edge-hog on the stage, and also for quickly getting onto a distant platform. When using QD, you should always have several follow-up options in mind; never commit yourself to one follow-up, but never QD aimlessly either. You should only use QD to get onto low platforms that you could reach with a single full-hop.

QD onto a platform is all about the follow-ups and how you use them. If your opponent is in the air near you when you land, you can Jab very quickly to try and catch them off guard. Immediately using an Utilt can catch your opponent after an air-dodge if they are returning to the stage above the platform, since the speed of the QD approach will often throw off your opponent.

Another great way to punish an air-dodge or an aerial attack is to immediately slide an Usmash in the opposite direction. This depends on how well you know what your opponent will do in the situation. They are falling from above, you QD to the edge of a platform beneath them, pivot and slide an Usmash so that the back end will hit them if they decide to try and attack you. This is assuming, again, that they are thrown off by the suddenness of the QD approach, which many players will be if they are not used to it.

Immediately jumping and using an aerial attack is also a good option at your discretion, particularly a retreated Nair or Fair if your opponent is close. What move you use is really dependent on the situation, since essentially the only difference between normally being near your opponent and using QD to approach, is that it may surprise them or cause them to do something that is punishable.

Obviously you can apply what you know about pratfalling and walk-offs here as well. Using QD onto a platform and then immediately doing a pratfall Bair is excellent for attacking opponents under the platform. If you find yourself beneath a platform with an opponent, you can even jump away, turn and QD onto the platform above and them pratfall Bair for an unexpected approach.

Stringing the landing of QD into a walk-off is excellent for a fast edge-guard on stages with platforms near the ledge like Battlefield. If you just hit your opponent off-stage on the other side of the screen, full-hop and QD onto a platform in pursuit of them and then walk-off Fair, Dair or Uair to edge-guard based on where they are when you arrive. A walk-off Dair towards the ledge from a Battlefield platform will spike right at the ledge, which is perfect for recoveries that do not snap to the ledge or for plankers.

Obviously it works the other way as well, by using QD onto a platform over the stage you can then walk-off and use an attack like Nair to string into other options. It is a great way to approach quickly, but take care not to do it too often. The key is to keep the element of surprise fresh and only pull out the QD to a platform approach when your opponent will be caught off-guard by it.

Quick Draw Stage Compatibility

Obviously not all stages with platforms are great for using QD onto them. Some have platforms that are too high or not large enough, but many will work just fine. Battlefield is the perfect stage for practicing the timing and spacing involved with doing the maneuver properly. A full-hop will get you the perfect height to land on one of the lower BF platforms, and then another full-hop from their can you to the top one.

Smashville’s platform is possible to QD to from a full-hop, but it requires more precise timing because it is higher than the low platforms on BF. It is sometimes beneficial to QD out to the platform when it is over the ledge of the stage, for example to quickly string into a pratfall Dair, but it is very risky. Practice doing QD to the Smashville platform at different distances and while it is moving in different directions to accustom yourself to the timing and spacing required.

The platform on Yoshi’s Island is also tricky because it tilts from side to side. If you full-hop from one of the higher points of the main stage you can QD to the platform when it is perfectly straight. You cannot full-hop and QD to the platform if it tilted away from you even slightly, but you can if it is tilted towards you. Be very careful not to hit one of the Shy Guys with your QD, because it will leave you helpless the same as if you hit your opponent.

The platforms on the main transitions of Pokemon Stadium 1 and 2 are easy to QD onto from a full-hop, but make sure you space it correctly, since they are not as wide as a Battlefield platform. There are some other platforms during the other transitions that you can QD to out of a full-hop, such as the one on the right during the fire transition of Pokemon Stadium 1. Experiment with all the different transitions so you get used to the various platforms.

Lylat Cruise is a very tricky stage for this maneuver, and there are only certain ways you can safely do it. Never attempt to full-hop QD to the left or right platforms coming from the middle of the stage; they are both slanted outwards, so you will fly right through them and possibly fall all the way to an SD. You can QD to them from the outside though, by full-hopping out away from the stage and using QD back towards them. You can also full-hop QD to the center platform, but be wary of the stage tilting; even a slight tilt can throw off the height enough to mess you up.

Halberd is decent for doing the QD maneuver, and it works on both transformations of the stage. On the first, it is best to do your full-hop from the middle part of one of the slopes on the main stage so you have just enough height. On this stage, the technique is best used for mobility, especially on the second transformation. If you want to cross the stage quickly, full-hop forward and QD onto the platform; it will allow you to gain distance and height much faster than just dashing along the ground, which is great for chasing an opponent you just hit up and away.

Delfino Plaza is a haven for this technique because of all it’s varying platforms. There is one transition with two platforms off to either side that overhang the ledge and a single long platform way up high, and it is important to note that the two side platforms in this transition are too high to full-hop and QD too. There is a similar transition however with two side platforms that are slanted inwards, and this one is perfect to full-hop QD to the platforms and then pratfall Dair for an edge-gaurd.

One transition of Delfino has only two platforms: the one on the right will be slightly higher than the one on the left. During this transition you can full-hop QD to the left side platform, and then short-hop QD to the right platform from there. During the transition with two centered platforms that are both very long (the higher one will slant down at the edges), you can full-hop QD to the first platform from the ground and then full-hop QD to the higher one from there.

Be careful when trying full-hop QDs on the first transition of Castle Siege, because the different ground level heights can mess you up. During the second transition you can full-hop QD to the lowest platform then reach the higher one from there. It really isn’t beneficial or possible in a practical way to QD onto the large canopies in the second transition, so don’t bother with those.

Frigate Orpheon’s first transition has plenty of ways that you can use the full-hop QD. You can do it to get onto the platform on the left of the stage, which is an overhang and thus great for edge-guarding. A full-hop QD will also get you perfectly onto the right platform from the main stage when it is raised up, and from the right platform onto the main stage when it is lowered. The technique is not as useful during the second transition of the stage however, since you have to be standing on one of the stage slopes to get the best height for a full-hop QD, but you’re practically under the platform at that point.

If Delfino Plaza is a haven for platform lovers, then Norfair is heaven. The platforms are all about the exact same height from each other as Battlefield platforms, which makes them perfect to full-hop QD to. On top of that, you can grab all of their outer ledges, so you can short-hop QD under each platform from the middle of the stage and grab the outer ledge. This can be very confusing and difficult to track for your opponent if you mix up your options well. Just make sure to practice so you don’t make any costly mistakes in a real game.

Jungle Japes is interesting for this technique. From the main stage in the center, you can full-hop QD to the platform above you (although it is relatively high like the Smashville platform) or short-hop QD to either of the outer platforms. Then from the outer platforms you can full-hop QD onto the top platform in the middle. You can also use QD in other ways; for example if you are hanging on the outside ledge of one of the outer platforms, you can drop down, double jump under the platform and immediately QD to land on the main stage. If you QD too late you will just grab the ledge of the main stage, so practice the timing until you can land on the stage consistently.

And finally we come to Brinstar, which is kind of risky for QD shenanigans. You can full-hop QD to the right side platform from the highest point of the main stage and the slopes around it, but watch your spacing carefully because it is a narrow platform. From there you can then perfectly full-hop QD to the highest platform. From the same high point on the main stage, you can also full-hop QD to the leftmost platform, and both side platforms are great overhangs for edge-guarding.

You guys don't actually have to read that wall of text if you don't want to; but if you do and you can think of anything I may have missed just let me know.

san. · Jul 13, 2010

I'm inspired after looking at all this effort. I'll try to read this stuff tomorrow. I've been packing up for Texas, among other things, so I won't have too much time tomorrow. Maybe I'll be able to type something out during the plane flight, or tomorrow(?!)

Teh Brettster · Jul 13, 2010

Depending on how long you're in Texas, you may be in the state on my birthday.

Too bad you're not going to Dallas.

Heartstring · Jul 13, 2010

christ the life, i knew platform pressure was a large part of ikes game and i THOUGHT i had firgured msot of it out myself, ive been proven wrong XD
i suppose the one thing i need help on is learning how to NOT get grabbed, it will be the death of me

Nysyarc · Jul 13, 2010

I edited the colors in my platform guide, alternating shades in paragraphs for the long sections so it's a bit easier to look at. I don't know if I want to start a new section or do some editing now...

Ussi · Jul 13, 2010

DI'ing Right

Now not much has to be said, but it's very important to mention it in it's own subsection as this is a very important mechanic which makes you different from 08 Ike's.

It's a common misconception on how easy it is to gimp Ike, brush off that and I'll tell you the key to surviving. The key is to DI IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

Now then, as Mr. Doom has said about sucking with SDI, DI is all about anticipation about getting hit. As basic as I can say it, you always want to DI to the corner. DIing to the corner grants the most survivability due to how blastzones are shaped like a square. Don't let the hexagon death explosions fool you, the world is SQUARED. Therefore, DIing towards a corner usually means you survive..... however please don't DI to a bottom corner... That being said, when you anticipate being hit horizontally, DI up. This is VITAL to surviving and not falling into Ike's dead zone. Ike's recovery is limited in direction.. you can either go UP or SIDEWAYS. However 99.4% of the time, if you can recovery with quickdraw, you can recovery with aether, so you will usually recovery with aether as quickdraw is a terrible recovery.

DIing right is very important for surviving bring hit out of aether. Basic things like Marth/Ike's counter and Peach's toad are very basic examples of attacks that will hit you out of aether. Of course you learn from experience how to space from those attacks but you'll find yourself getting hit by attacks such as those on.. so best to anticipate and DI towards the stage and upwards as much as you can.

this is also important for when you are being hit by attacks in general offstage. Back in the Scrubby days, no one DI'ed and everyone was like "omg Wall of Pain gimps Ike soo easy, he's trash" and we Ike mains have been stuck ever since with a bad rep of a character as people judged Ike too harshly. The following sections will show you how to recover as Ike as Ike can make it back usually now. Of course you will find yourself getting gimped a lot in the beginning but the best way to learn is by first hand experience how to recover. .

jamlosingthegame · Jul 13, 2010

I was reading most of the platform stuff until the stage compatibility part (too much for me in one go). Was practicing stuff on Battlefield and I noticed that it is possible to pratfall -> Fair on the lower platforms. I don't know how helpful that would be considering that the timing is very tight. I basically flicked the Control stick down and then let it reset to neutral position (so as not to fast fall) to pratfall and flicked the C-Stick (set to Smash if it matters) to Fair and managed it. If you want a feel for the timing, I think it is sort of like the timing of a DACUS.

EDIT: lol "Sub-Guide"

Nysyarc · Jul 13, 2010

jamlosingthegame said:
EDIT: lol "Sub-Guide"

Lol, I didn't want to call it a guide cause that's what the overall thread is.

As for the pratfall Fair, it's kind of useful if done from a higher platform, but the chance of fast-falling from a low one and thus getting no hitbox and just landing lag isn't worth the potential benefit. Bair comes out fast enough that you can fast-fall and still hit, and if your opponent is in front of you and you're confident you won't fast-fall, Nair is a better option than Fair.

And yah the QD stage compatibility section you can just kind of skim to find stages you're unsure about or whatever. It doesn't have any generalized tips, just stage specific stuff.

Ussi · Jul 13, 2010

pratfall fair is possible just needs to be frame perfect so not feasible so ill advised. Also very easy to block and most people will hit you before it comes out as being on the platform that means they want to juggle you

Now then, fair is a viable platform attack because it can cover an entire platform horizontally. Basically if you aren't under the platform, you can either fair or usmash and you can fair out of so many more positions you just gotta know when.

Another important note is that usmash is good to charge on a shielding opponent because if spaced to the tip you can shield stab it.

Nysyarc · Jul 13, 2010

Exactly; and like I mention in the guide, using Fair after pratfalling from a higher platform allows you time to retreat it, but you don't have enough vertical space to retreat it from a low platform even if you don't fast-fall.

Ussi · Jul 13, 2010

This can’t be done on low platforms though, because Fair’s hitbox will not have time to emerge

This is why i posted what i did, though the retreat part does make sense, but what i said will probably put it in perspective more.

I'm trying to get people thinking about what the opponent wants to do.

Nysyarc · Jul 13, 2010

Well... I'll leave it like that in the guide to deter new players from attempting it. There's no point in using pratfall Fair from a low platform when you have Nair and Bair among other options. It's like QD as an attack; if done correctly it's viable, but it should be strongly discouraged at first and then players should learn the best situations to use it on their own as they get more experience.

Ussi · Jul 13, 2010

...not feasible so ill advised. Also very easy to block and most people will hit you before it comes out as being on the platform that means they want to juggle you

I didn't support pratfall fair, just gave a better reason to not do it, cause new people ALWAYS think hey its really possible so i'm gonna experiment with it when there is nothing to experiment when the positioning is too bad

Nysyarc · Jul 13, 2010

Lol, I didn't say you did. I'm just saying I'm not going to change the guide so it says "pratfall Fair is possible from a low platform but should not be done because ______". Easier to just say "it can't be done".

Lol, I might as well put under Dsmash in the moveset analysis:

"Inputting the controls that, for most characters, would result in a Dsmash, will have no effect for Ike. He will just stand there. So don't bother."

jamlosingthegame · Jul 13, 2010

I see. So buffering a pivot -> prat fall Bair is better. The pratfall Fair thing was just something I managed to perform and wanted to know if there were better options and there are.

I'm still hoping to be able to contribute something, but everyone else has more experience than me and could contribute better, which is why I ask such questions. It's my way of contributing I guess. So expect more noob-like questions.

Ussi · Jul 14, 2010

Not Losing your Cool

This is an important statement that many beginners and sometimes pros do not follow. Keeping your cool is one of the most important things you have to do when brawling as that controls how easy you are to read. There are two different things that make you lose your cool, intimidation and anger.

Getting intimidated is a player to player thing or character to player thing. Personal bad MUs or fighting someone you never beat before.. Or fighting the best player in the world~ that can be pretty scary to face.

Other ways of getting intimidated is like getting Ike forward smashed cause you got hit by a move that normally doesn't connect meaning you are afraid you might be read again. The best thing to do is to brush it off and keep going strong. Do not lose hope.

Touching on anger, if you are mad, you are more prone to make aggressive behaviors and get provoked much more easily. Blind aggressive is too easy to see coming and usually leads to your downfall as you rush in too quickly and leave yourself open to be destroyed. But that's scrub form of aggression.

There is a more advanced form of aggression that plays a legitimate aggressive playstyle. You will be in control of your decisions somewhat, however aggressive playstyles only work if you are better than the player you are fighting. That's the truth of it. Being in this state however, its possible to get over it and switch back to being calm if you can reason with yourself. If you lose yourself you'll find yourself slipping into blind aggression if you aren't dead yet.

Reasons to lose your cool:

Died first: suck it up and play carefully trying to bring it back

Suicide: **** happens, just try your best to come back. I know on equal footing its unlikely but a few good reads and you're back in business. Its DOABLE to play better than someone on your level for one game.

Guy isn't dying: This is the most common reason to lose your cool, Do not get anger/nervous the other person isn't dying.

Facing someone higher ranked or important: This is the worst form of intimidation there is, nothing to say except believe in yourself. This is a battle between how good you think you are vs how good you really are

Bad MU: its a bad MU, if you have no experience in it, its a fair reason to be scared. However if you can't get over being scared of a bad MU then go play MK. You gotta tough it through as you gotta be ahead of the game to keep up. Being intimidated means you will lose no matter what.

Got read: Whether you're angry and want to rush in or scared and too afraid to get close, you are leaving yourself open to get read more

Lost Hope: Give up! Go play a game for little girls like Call of Duty

Nidtendofreak · Jul 14, 2010

Give up and play a game for little girls like Call of Duty

But this is Brawl, not TvC...

Ussi · Jul 14, 2010

Ahahaha you know my reference. I love that line so much i want it in this guide

Nidtendofreak · Jul 14, 2010

Yes, I know that reference. :D

For the others: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnBoz97quEo

CHAINSAW TO THE DADDY JEWELS!
BIRD MISSLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLE!
SHINING FINGER!
GIANT ROBOT PUNCH!

Iofsauron · Jul 14, 2010

Wth lol XD

Hey, how come my text aint green?? RAGE

Mr. Doom · Jul 14, 2010

Iofsauron said:
Wth lol XD

Hey, how come my text aint green?? RAGE

lol, I see why your text isn't green.

Ussi · Jul 14, 2010

Iofsauron said:
Wth lol XD

Hey, how come my text aint green?? RAGE

.. you're /COLOR comes before what you typed

Ussi · Jul 15, 2010

Double post but this is a significant thing so i need the new message:

I'm thinking of adding a "How to play 'gay' as Ike" subsec/Section cause the metagame requires that.

Nidtendofreak · Jul 15, 2010

Do it.

I can't, I'm so bad I can't play gay.

Ussi · Jul 15, 2010

Added it under defense as subsection H for now.

I'm actually just thinking of making a new section called "The Mental aspect of Brawl" to take some things like "Not losing your cool" and playing gay as Ike" to put in there

Nidtendofreak · Jul 15, 2010

Using playing gay as Ike to make other people lose their cool as the last part of "The Mental Aspect of Brawl"? Not that Ike is the best for character for playing gay, but still.

Ussi · Jul 15, 2010

There are some characters Ike can gay... like Zelda.

Also there is a mental aspect i want to touch on. Like NOT APPROACHING WHEN YOU HAVE THE LEAD

yea i'm gonna rework this a little and add a whole new section called "The Mental Aspect of Brawl"

Mr. Doom · Jul 15, 2010

How to play gay: camp the ledge and up-b stall against characters with no projectiles. Run around without attacking the opponent and have them chase you. As long as you're not getting nickled-and-dimed, you can frustrate your opponent.

I noticed, when I was playing as mk for kicks and giggles, that I would usually not strike first, but rather wait on the opponent to strike first. People didn't like me for that strategy, but it worked.

Nysyarc · Jul 15, 2010

In the Mental Aspect of Brawl section we should include tips on baiting/punishing. We could take some excerpts from this old thread.

Nidtendofreak · Jul 15, 2010

What about CPing with stages that your opponent wouldn't expect, like Rainbow Cruise? That's a mental aspect isn't it? Most people think Ike is terrible on Rainbow Cruise and Jungle Japes, though we know Ike can be decent on these stages, depending on the opponent.

There is also conditioning the opponent into falling into habits.

Nysyarc · Jul 15, 2010

Well, the conditioning can fall into the category of baiting and punishing. The stage thing... I dunno, I mean we're going to cover basically everything stage and counter-picking related in the Stages section of the guide.

Ussi · Jul 15, 2010

Baiting and Punishing is a perfect addition. I'll go and organize the section now. I'm gonna place it after recovery and before stages. Nys i love that thread, that entire thing will probably be useful in here

As for mind games on counter picking, that goes with stages.

theeboredone · Jul 15, 2010

Ah baiting, one of my favorite things to do...random Up-air on the opposite side of the stage to get them chasing me ftw.

Ussi · Jul 15, 2010

Alright, think i got it organized. Now that most of this guide is complete, i want to start holding XAT discussions on this thread. Anyone got a good time?

The first two things i wanna talk about is approaching and avoiding projectiles. More thought out posts like Nys's i'm saving for later.

metroid1117 · Jul 15, 2010

Ussi said:
Baiting and Punishing is a perfect addition. I'll go and organize the section now. I'm gonna place it after recovery and before stages. Nys i love that thread, that entire thing will probably be useful in here

As for mind games on counter picking, that goes with stages.

Be sure to touch on "screwing up" your jab cancels so you can read how your opponent instinctively gets out of them

.

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