The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

Nysyarc · Jul 6, 2010

Okay, this is like the third time I've intentionally double-posted in this thread but I think they've all been warranted, lol.

I've just finished updating the OP with every video and every critique since February of last year, organized into collapse tags by the month they were posted. I ignored videos that did not have a substantial critique. I also ignored the occasional video that had been removed from YouTube, even if they had a good critique, since we no longer have anything to reference the critique to.

I've removed the Top Critic from the title and instead added a Critic Hall of Fame section for nostalgia purposes. If you guys have other ideas for how to organize the videos that isn't too complicated, I'm willing to change it now that I have them all in the OP. By date was the easiest way to initially compile them all, and I don't feel creative enough right now to think of a better way to list them.

Foodies · Jul 6, 2010

Maybe you can organize them by the opponent's character? That way it would be easier to see advice against certain characters.

Heartstring · Jul 7, 2010

Foodies said:
Maybe you can organize them by the opponent's character? That way it would be easier to see advice against certain characters.

i second foodies idea, maybe adding a little to the critique thats character specific (e.g: lucario, recover as low as possible)

Nysyarc · Jul 7, 2010

Hmm, I like that idea. The only problem I'm thinking is that there would be a lot of collapse tags, 35 at most although probably not that many for now, and there may not be many vids in each one.

I can't exactly edit old critiques but I've always tried to give some MU-specific tips in mine, and I will from now on for sure. I can't think of any better way to do it or any way of effectively making larger groupings of vids, so I'll get to work on that.

Max113 · Jul 7, 2010

Hmm... seeing as how I didn't see "You have to loose" rule in the OP... could I have someone critique this for me please? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN_y0LL_N9k&NR=1

Nysyarc · Jul 8, 2010

Max113 said:
Hmm... seeing as how I didn't see "You have to loose" rule in the OP... could I have someone critique this for me please? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN_y0LL_N9k&NR=1

Sure but, not much to critique, lol. You pretty much destroyed him, that was a baaad MK.

0:06 - You should buffer Jabs immediately after landing an Nair like that at 0% or otherwise very low percent. Even online (which I'll assume this is, maybe not?) you definitely have time to react to the Nair connecting and tap A a few times.
0:16 - Try not to fast-fall your Bairs against MK or another fast opponent; the landing lag for that is sometimes all he needs to run in and get a grab. Same with that Fsmash, it wasn't really a good idea... not sure why he didn't punish it TBH.
0:27 - When he's above the platforms like that, you need to stay directly beneath him and pressure his return with constant Nairs/Uairs. You allowed him to get grounded again for apparently no reason.
0:38 - Again, he's not very good at punishing... DA isn't a great approach on MK, many of his moves are short enough that he can just PS it even if you time it to try and punish.
1:45 - Against MK you really only ever want to DI up, and you have to always be aware of the range and suddenness of his Shuttle Loop. If he's beneath you and you're close to off-stage and he's been spamming Shuttle Loop... well, you can expect another, so hold up on the control stick and be ready to momentum cancel. You definitely could have survived that hit.
2:19 - You should pressure his return with full-hop Fairs here so that they auto-cancel. If you notice that he air-dodges them, you can then full-hop over him the next time he is returning to the stage and Dair him after an air-dodge. Standing still can't set up for anything or accomplish anything immediately.

Overall, pretty well played on your part but the MK was terrible, lol. You used Nairs and Jabs well for spacing and pressuring, and I liked the occasional Utilt but try not to go too crazy with it. Same with DA, be careful about when you choose to use it. I noticed you didn't get any grabs at all, and there was only one time I remember seeing you attempt for one. There were times when he simply held a shield on next to you and left himself completely open for a grab; be aware of those situations and your different options.

theeboredone · Jul 8, 2010

Wow...that MK was BAD. Holy crap. Nice video quality though. Who recorded it?

Max113 · Jul 8, 2010

Nysyarc said:
Sure but, not much to critique, lol. You pretty much destroyed him, that was a baaad MK.

0:06 - You should buffer Jabs immediately after landing an Nair like that at 0% or otherwise very low percent. Even online (which I'll assume this is, maybe not?) you definitely have time to react to the Nair connecting and tap A a few times.
0:16 - Try not to fast-fall your Bairs against MK or another fast opponent; the landing lag for that is sometimes all he needs to run in and get a grab. Same with that Fsmash, it wasn't really a good idea... not sure why he didn't punish it TBH.
0:27 - When he's above the platforms like that, you need to stay directly beneath him and pressure his return with constant Nairs/Uairs. You allowed him to get grounded again for apparently no reason.
0:38 - Again, he's not very good at punishing... DA isn't a great approach on MK, many of his moves are short enough that he can just PS it even if you time it to try and punish.
1:45 - Against MK you really only ever want to DI up, and you have to always be aware of the range and suddenness of his Shuttle Loop. If he's beneath you and you're close to off-stage and he's been spamming Shuttle Loop... well, you can expect another, so hold up on the control stick and be ready to momentum cancel. You definitely could have survived that hit.
2:19 - You should pressure his return with full-hop Fairs here so that they auto-cancel. If you notice that he air-dodges them, you can then full-hop over him the next time he is returning to the stage and Dair him after an air-dodge. Standing still can't set up for anything or accomplish anything immediately.

Overall, pretty well played on your part but the MK was terrible, lol. You used Nairs and Jabs well for spacing and pressuring, and I liked the occasional Utilt but try not to go too crazy with it. Same with DA, be careful about when you choose to use it. I noticed you didn't get any grabs at all, and there was only one time I remember seeing you attempt for one. There were times when he simply held a shield on next to you and left himself completely open for a grab; be aware of those situations and your different options.

Lol yeah, it was wifi. At 0:16, I have a pretty hard time auto-canceling Bair's on wifi and that Fsmash was an attempt at a bair. XD

Anyway, thanks Nyke. I now know a little more about the MU.

theeboredone said:
Wow...that MK was BAD. Holy crap. Nice video quality though. Who recorded it?

Yeah, he sucked. XD

The Great Kazoo recorded it, he records for anyone who askes. Here is the thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233863

Frio · Jul 14, 2010

FVCT~ Frio's Video Critique Thread
For a quick and easy to follow critique.

What is it?

Too lazy to read those long and boring critiques on the brawl character boards? Well you're in luck. Just send me a video of you playing from Youtube and I'll re-upload it with a critique commentary on My Channel. I'll PM you when I re-upload your video on my channel.

Nysyarc · Jul 14, 2010

Or...

You can post your YouTube video in this thread and get it critiqued professionally by people who actually main Ike.

You don't seriously expect to critique and re-upload every video submitted by every player of every character in SWF do you? I don't think you quite realize the workload of what you're proposing.

Ussi · Jul 15, 2010

If someone wants a commentated critique i'll give you one for the lulz.

Mr. Doom · Jul 15, 2010

Man, I haven't really posted here in a while. I may need a critique for future reference, though. So, if either senior critic could critique this horrible performance, I'd appreciate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaqRl8TTUI

Nysyarc · Jul 15, 2010

Mr. Doom said:
Man, I haven't really posted here in a while. I may need a critique for future reference, though. So, if either senior critic could critique this horrible performance, I'd appreciate it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybaqRl8TTUI

I feel weird critiquing this cause I'm sure you would know more about teams matches than I do anyways, but I'll give it a shot.

0:09 - I noticed you do a lot of spot-dodging near MK, which usually isn't a good idea. He has a lot of very easy options to punish spot-dodges. In fact, even a roll behind him is sometimes a better idea as long as you don't do it too often. The only time it's not a better idea is if he likes to punish with Dsmash.

0:47 - The problem with Ike in doubles is his range, evidently. You probably didn't have much time to react cause I'm willing to bet that PS was unintentional, but a Bair would have worked better there. Plus MK wasn't at a high enough % to KO, while your partner was. So even sticking to Jabs or Nair to punish may have been safer.

1:27 - Right there is obviously the major momentum decider in the battle. Ike has a few decent ways to save someone under circumstances like that. After seeing Holms fast-fall so far, your priority should be to try and save him rather than to spike Wario, since Falco's recovery is basically as bad or worse than Ike's. If you used Dair at about stage height, the weak hitbox would have popped Holms back up. Alternatively, what you could have done ever after attempting the spike was fast-fall out a bit farther from the stage and then double jump Bair Holms towards the stage in hopes he could tech it or DI up enough to miss the stage entirely (he was at a low percent). Bair is short enough in the air that you would have had time to Aether and save yourself.

3:03 - There really isn't too much Ike can do against two opponents, let alone MK and Wario, but you really should stick entirely to SHFF Nairs, AC Bairs and Jabs. Nairs and Jabs can space and rack damage, while not leaving you too open to attacks from whoever you're not after, and Bair can provide KOs and separation so you can focus on one at a time. Using a move that takes any longer is almost guaranteed to get you punished if your opponents know what they're doing.

That's really all I noticed, you didn't play too bad at all really. If it weren't for that SD by Holms you guys would have had a much better chance of winning, because you were just about even at that point. Not much needs to be said to sum it up; just always be aware of your evasive maneuvers around MK, try not to do too much on reaction because MK has a much better on-reaction game than Ike. Your spacing was great other than that one Usmash team KO.

Mr. Doom · Jul 16, 2010

0:47 and 1:27 were my two biggest concerns. Sometimes, I would run into a game and suddenly forget all the options that I have available. A major brain fart, I guess you can call it. Thanks for helping me out.

Slaps · Jul 18, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxOCGTE_BzA critique pl0x XD

theeboredone · Jul 18, 2010

Dude, the quality on that is a piece of crap...I don't even know what's going on.

Nysyarc · Jul 18, 2010

Yah... between the odd angles at the start, the lines all over the TV and the camera shaking constantly, it's just painful to watch. If you can get a vid that was recorded using a screen recorder or a camera on a tri-pod with the TV set to a low brightness level... then I'll critique it, but that's just bad filming. I can't actually make out enough of it to do half a critique, let alone a full critique.

Mr. Doom · Jul 19, 2010

I have screen and sound capturing software. Just give me the replays and I'll put them on YouTube.

Slaps · Jul 19, 2010

XD they werent recorded.. i just posted closest thing haha

PentaSalia · Jul 19, 2010

Slaps the God

stop losing to hylians G&W D; lulz

Slaps · Jul 25, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38TQtMfuLYM critique i forgot this vid is up... its wifi... you can tell there is lag XD lol

Teh Brettster · Jul 25, 2010

What an egotistical punk for putting a 30 second intro before an average, single match. Where he lost, nonetheless.

theeboredone · Jul 25, 2010

Slaps, you're much better than this now. I don't know why would post such a deceiving video.

After watching that video, it reminded me of my 5 dollar MM with ALSM and how I only ended up with a big I.O.U.

Slaps · Jul 25, 2010

XD lol its wifi, and sometimes i have a lot of trouble with link on wifi.

Nysyarc · Jul 30, 2010

Some more recent matches of me vs Raz where I lose... they were pretty close but I keep choking against him. Any match-up specific advise for Marth or Raz's play-style as Marth would be very much appreciated if any of you guys know the MU well, I'm certainly not an expert on it, lol.

Nysyarc (Ike) vs Raziek (Marth) 1
Nysyarc (Ike) vs Raziek (Marth) 2

Critique plox!

Ussi · Jul 30, 2010

Game 1

:36 its a bad habit to spot dodge against Marth, his dancing blades really destroys that to be an option, instead shield grab after the 3rd DB hit

1:16 if you're gonna charge usmash at the ledge, make sure you have the backside hitting the ledge cause it has more range to space away from the ledge

1:28 Stop spot dodging

1:56 AIOHJDIOEJOGJE Wow you got lucky he didn't continue that DB

2:24 Just a compliment on your DI or luck

2:40 Don't charge usmash near the ledge so much, it's not that great on an option and Marth can easily ledgehop nair it if you're that close, hell a safe ledgedrop fair without even jumping will get you at that distance. Space the backside of usmash OR use a different move like fair

2:55 if you are gonna ledgehop AD then buffer a shield when you land, shieldgrab instead of shielddropping

4:29 shield drop to dash usmash???? Usmash OoS shield for one would have reached, and 2nd that is a poor choice as a punisher when ftilt is much more faster and safer on shield than front side usmash. You're best bet was to realize you are both at high percents, of course people are gonna be MORE DEFENSIVE AND SHIELD MORE LIKELY and gone for the grab to bthrow.

Game 2

1:07 what? bad idea of a usmash Should either dash usmash under a person or space the backside of usmash

1:18 fsmash randomly? Against the likes of Marth, i would advise not to be so careless in a bad MU

2:12 abuse the beauty of this stage and FF into the water instead of trying to recover to the right side

3:36 punish after the 3rd hit, need i say more?

2:40 learn to reverse usmash, it really pays off

2:52 you didn't dash far away enough, and usmash wasn't the best choice given Marth's position, a nair or utilt might have done better. You really lost momentum after he punished you here

3:07 if that's why you don't FF into the water, then pay attention to the time at least then, you could have done aether instead of QD to stall the time so you wouldn't have been carried into the klap trap

3:32 Marth isn't threaten by fsmash near the ledge when trying to get back on

You mainly need to pressure people on the ledge better and space with the backside of usmash

IkeFiend · Aug 14, 2010

Mr. Doom gets all the thanks for recording these for me. ^^

VS Pikachu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5UQQSmj9ak

VS Marth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFIkGk0aLQg

I'm ready for what you've got.

EDIT: In the first one, I KNOW taunting isn't the best thing to do at the beginning of the match... Well, excessive taunting, that is. I didn't realize it was going to turn into a battle like that, and it was unintentional that it was going to be a replay that I wanted to get critiqued.

Foodies · Aug 14, 2010

It would be better for critique if the matches were a bit closer, since these were you 3 stocking people xD That Marth made me want to cry...I think I counted 2 fairs. But anyway, general tips. (someone else can do a critique broken down by time if they want lol)

-Dthrow Aether doesn't work against people who DI, so don't use it unless you find that your opponent likes not DI'ing and jumping after Dthrow or something
-Use more Nair, at low %s it sets up into jabs and it also has less landing lag compared to fair if you mess up
-Jab cancel! I think I saw you cancel in grab like once, which is a start; you should incorporate canceling into jabs.
-If you use QD to recover, don't do it straight at them, since it's easily punished like that
-From what I saw, you fastfalled your fairs, which is good

But yeah, as I said before, playing better opponents will probably get you a better critique. Hope this helps anyway ^_^

IkeFiend · Aug 14, 2010

Thanks, Fewdiez. And yeah! I apparently rushed to get replays (since I did it all today) and didn't fight any opponents that was equal in power to me... There was Flame's Snake and Zero's Marth, but I need to get that code for 3 minute+ replays...

OH and I apologize about the Marth, it just looked so terrible, didn't it? D; Marth mains would flip at that, huh? xD

Dthrow... All righty! I do that a lot, so I'll keep that in mind about the DI thing.

Yes, I'm still working on Jab Cancelling, haha. xD

Gotta beat that Nair-ing into my head, 'cause for some reason it just doesn't register. I think I've started to rely on the C-Stick too much.

Fastfalling = Good XD

theeboredone · Aug 14, 2010

You should have just waited for more worthy matches to critique. You shouldn't rush yourself, and let the process come naturally.

In other words, get your *** to AiB freeplay.

IkeFiend · Aug 14, 2010

Lol, I'm doing more 'worthy' matches as we speak, thanks Bored. >>

jamlosingthegame · Aug 15, 2010

LOL I just saw her there, but it's getting pretty late for me and I dunno if I can stay up for a couple more brawls.

EDIT: I wish I could get the 3+ minute replay for myself. **** Wii had to have the latest software. Anyone found a way to get hacks in it yet?

theeboredone · Aug 15, 2010

Just google it or ask in the smash workshop.

Edit: Penta told me that you can even install those codes just by putting them on your SD and simply booting your game normally. No homebrew required. Don't know how that works though.

san. · Aug 15, 2010

Ussi showed me how you can access Ocarina codes through Gecko OS through some type of bypass on the stage builder screen. That's the only way I know of.

Ussi · Aug 15, 2010

I only use it so i can hack other wiis regardless of the wii. it's called stack smash

-RedX- · Aug 15, 2010

It's actually called Smash Stack.
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Smash_Stack

Stack Smash is a texture group/site. lol

Um, idk if I'm allowed to link that but just get rid of it if it's not allowed. D;

mars16 · Aug 16, 2010

Mars16(ike) vs UberMario(ike)

Im Player 1

Foodies · Aug 16, 2010

More general tips, yay!

-Don't use Quickdraw as an attack; if your opponent is charging QD jump over him
-Use more jab! Ike's jab is to Marth's fair is to Mr.Doom's "JAB MOAR!!" Jab is probably the best move Ike has, and can build up damage really easily.
-Jab cancel faster, your opponent shouldn't be able to put up their shield in between your jabs. If that does happen though, you can just cancel into a grab to bypass it.
-Use more Nair, I don't even think you used this once. Low %s it sets up into jabs and it doesn't have that much ending lag.
-Roll less. Rolling too much will get you punished by better people. If you find that someone likes to roll into you, just charge an Upsmash and hit them in their ending lag. You can even Fsmash, if you are certain of their action.
-Don't jump right back onto the stage after you are hit off all the time, it isn't really that safe.
-Fastfall your Fairs, less lag is good.
-You can follow Dthrow at low %s with Nair
-Just ledgehog Aether instead of using Dtilt, which most likely won't even work.

I also recommend you read this guide. It's not completely finished yet, but it already has a lot of useful information. If you don't want to read the whole thing (though you should), at least read Nysyarc's moveset analysis to see what moves you should be using and when.

mars16 · Aug 16, 2010

Thanks for the info I'll try to use every thing you just told me

theeboredone · Aug 16, 2010

Foodies said:
More general tips, yay!

-Don't use Quickdraw as an attack; if your opponent is charging QD jump over him

Lol...I don't know how many times I like to throw in a random QD during a match. Ask San.

Also Mars, while jab is important for Ike, you should careful how you use it against Marth. A good Marth will space you well with his f-airs so you need to respond with retreating f-airs or n-airs. The only time you should consider using jab is when you are in close range and part is not doing dancing blade. From there, watch out for his DI and Dolphin Slash.

The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Journeyman

Smash Legend

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Apprentice

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Legend

Smash Apprentice

Smash Champion

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Legend

Smash Hero

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Lord

Smash Master

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Last King of Hollywood

Smash Legend

Smash Ace

Smash Journeyman

Smash Ace

Smash Legend

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero

Smash Legend

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Journeyman

Smash Lord

Smash Legend

Information

Network