[m-1, 14, 28] avril lavigne mafia - over

the difference between Nick and I's meta is that he is using that one specific instance (a null-tell) and applying it to be scummy in this game because i was scum last game.

my "meta" which is pretty much applied to every single person in this game is being familiar with a person's play style overall to justify asking more information about them.

the two do not compare.

and you're either lying or you completely forgot about the last day of Chrono Trigger mafia in regards to stalling.

Omni said:

the difference between Nick and I's meta is that he is using that one specific instance (a null-tell) and applying it to be scummy in this game because i was scum last game.

my "meta" which is pretty much applied to every single person in this game is being familiar with a person's play style overall to justify asking more information about them.

the two do not compare.

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Are you saying Nich only has that one part of your playstyle in mind?

and you're either lying or you completely forgot about the last day of Chrono Trigger mafia in regards to stalling.

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http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10622150#post10622150


Day 8 into Day 9 in CT Mafia. You didn't "stall" on the last day at all. You had a gambit and you went for it.

i'm saying that the two do not compare in regards to the in-depth of the meta. i only need a small amount of information as to not ask someone a specific question later. i had enough info on Vander to familiarize myself with his playstyle and not ask him more questions about him. i had 0 information on Zensei/Xonar and therefore asked. why do i keep repeating myself?

and yes i did stall in CT. i opted not to say anything which was a choice in order to get other people to draw their own conclusions and then base my further actions on those drawn conclusions.

what are you trying to get at, Overswarm? i don't see any purpose or direction in your questioning.

what are you trying to get at, Overswarm? i don't see any purpose or direction in your questioning.

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You continually make statements that omit information or are just flat out wrong, then wait for someone to speak, then alter your original intention. It's a pretty low-tier debating strategy, there was a guy on the debate team back home that did it all the time. It's pretty easy to call out.

If you don't want to be questioned and forced to repeat yourself, tell the truth and the whole truth the moment you're asked. If you want to keep secrets, that's fine.... but not your intentions. Don't get in "back and forth" arguments with people if you're just going to try to bait them into asking the same questions over and over and over again. Most of your refutations are "lol you're dumb" or "I don't need to answer that", and a string of "why am I repeating myself?!"

You're repeating yourself because you aren't articulating your points clearly, or are being intentionally murky with your replies.

Fine Omni. Give me a list of some recent games you've been in as town, and I'll go check myself. Cause I'm willing to bet you KNOW you don't do it as town, so you can't give me an example.

1. ChacoTaco- no posts here in a while, no posts elsewhere
4. Meta-Kirby - want to hear more from, has been active today
5. VanderZant- want to hear more from period

6. Xonar- needs to be updated in the main list
7. OverSwarm - incredibly amazing
8. ZenSei - fine
9. marshEE (Evil Eye/marshy hydra) - meanie

10. frozenflame751- want to hear more from. Post more. My lynch target for the day if he doesn't start posting.

11. Omni- green

12. Macman- post more

mk...hm. i guess your response is fair enough minus why youre suspicious of me. omnis right in that youre hung up over something more related to playstyle than anything

nick...291 is awful. read the entire thread and see if anything changes your mind about players before obnoxiously trying to force other players to respond to things that took place at the beginning of the game

lol @ even suggesting a me/omni scumteam. scum generally like to use this thing called "subtlety" nick. plus i defend people i think are town all the time so whats your problem? roxy in ucmafia. macman in scum wars. cello in tree stump. all of those players in those games had momentum going for their lynch or winds were about to blow in their direction when i defended them. i thought omni was protown when os made that post. yes there is an argument to be made that he was inactive hunting and the people who make those arguments might even have the logical high ground however ive played with omni a lot and his hyperactive questioning/prodding struck me as protown. os made a big post on omni and big posts generally have a tendency to make players just kinda skim over it and agree with it even if theyre overriding their initial read on the player. read/skim l4scum if you want to see what i mean and how that kind of lazy reaction to big cases can absolutely destroy a town

you cant say "x has done y as scum and i havent seen him do it as town therefore x is scum here". os is right for once and you need to stop using such a skewed thought process like that as it can lead to terrible conclusions. dont be such a surface level reading robot

also if youre gonna challenge omni or whatever then just ask yourself 'what is worth arguing? what information do i think is necessary?' before dragging him into a back-and-forth. i dont want another gheb v nick debate

read the entire thread and THEN get back to us. your latest posts are an abominable pain in the *** to read and give us little to work with. please answer the questions i posed to you in 260 when youre done

for the record nick pulled very similar surface-level analysis when replacing and catching up in tree stump and annoying tunneling in ucmafia. he was town in both of them so i think hes more misguided than scummy at the moment

tom...im assuming youve seen stuff from zensei that you like? why is he on your live list? your reaction to ees portion of my post was dumb btw

zensei do you have any other suspicions besides k-bot?

@ mod request votecount

kirby-bot hasnt posted in 48+ hours (7/13 3:08 am). requesting prod

dont be such a surface level reading robot

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This will be the name of the first track on my punk rock CD


(I am not in a punk rock band)

no, EE's portion of your post was hella dumb. i did not like. if he is just gonna name call then he can just let you do all of the talking (hes not that good anyways).

im going to be v/la this weekend, with the family on a vacation :D

if k-bot or mk are lynched while i am gone i will be fine with that anyone else and i will probably be mad

Alright, so, that was a lot of reading for nothing. I think Marshee pretty much hit my opinion on it, so instead of feigning activity I'll just open myself up to question on the whole ordeal.

I need to stop sleeping so late.

@marshy

What bothers me about the whole "who's weakest" thing is that he's claimed he does it a lot, I know he does it as scum, but he refuses to provide me with a link to even one game where he does it as town. Have you seen him do it as town?

Also, what justifies discarding an argument because the person making them is a bad player?

Also, what justifies discarding an argument because the person making them is a bad player?

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No comment.

alright. this whole thread gets better when more people talk.

@nich: i've been using it lately since i took my hiatus from DG. i replaced in a few games and i joined a small amount of others. ive done it a few times regardless of alignment. regardless, i think you are wasting our time by attempting to score a scumtell through a nulltell. with that besides the point it's a weak meta anyway. im not going to help you support your weak meta; if you're going to meta me do it properly and back it up properly. as i said before stop being flimsy with your cases.

you do need to a solid read and perhaps a reread of the game. i dont want to feel like im debating with someone who doesn't fully comprehend what's been occurring in the game. it's not your fault since you just replaced but it would be better for all of us knowing that you have a full grasp of what's going on we don't have to think, "did he skim that part? is he caught up?" kinda dealie

its also important that you give us your solid reads on the rest of the cast

@overswarm: you and i need to calm down. we're at each other's throats moreso over the dislike of each other's approach to the game and play style, i think. i dont find you scummy but i disagree with a lot that you say and how you handle things. i do find you as a liability for the most part but i do find you as leaning town and your questioning of Nich gave me reassurance of your gameplay regardless, i think we've made our dislike clear to everyone and we should be focusing on drawing more out of the more quiet players than continuing bickering back and forth amongst ourselves

also, i know u approach the game mathematically and logically. i understand what you're trying to accomplish with those long posts you make. my suggestion is that you keep them to yourself for personal reference unless you're using it to apply pressure or make a point. i have my own notepad with notes as well. i did like that it helped me get a better grasp on how you view Vander but since you didn't conclude it with anything i wasn't positive about where you stood.

--------

ok... weekend's coming up. i'mma be busy. most of you guys are gonna be busy. we need to lynch somebody by Wednesday. im thinking:

- Kirby-Bot: You need to post a defense and you need to full claim immediately.
- MetaKirby: You need to post and give us a good reason as to why we should consider you an asset to this game.
- Mac: im scared of you and im losing my original faith. you're more talkative when you're town and i can't tell if you're being quiet on purpose or lazy. im going to assume you're chillin on purpose which makes me uncomfortable
- Frozen: as well as responding to marshEE and my's questions really need you to give an opinion on the rest of the cast

i feel so meh towards vander, chaco, and zensei. guess that means those are my neutral reads

oh, and to add, you need to tell us KirbyBot if you don't think you're the play for toDay what other players do you think should be lynched over you

Omni, if you are willing to believe me, I'm a good player. I really am, and I partially blame Xiivi for telling me that pictures can work in an argument >_> I was being stupid that day, but giving me another chance will be the best thing you ever do. Besides, I feel like alot of these players are just telling anyone who disagrees with them is are

Tom said:

hella dumb.

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or X post

marshEE said:

is awful.

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And that anyone who posts has a

Tom said:

s hitty post.

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We need to move away from this mindset, and I feel as if I can help accomplish that. However, we've got somebody riding the coattails of others, weighing us down, and that person is KirbyBot, who doesn't have an opinion to his name, forms weak cases, and whose overall contribution consists of disagreeing with people, forming a baseless assumption or case, contradicting themselves a few posts later, then disappearing.

We need to move away from this mindset, and I feel as if I can help accomplish that. However, we've got somebody riding the coattails of others, weighing us down, and that person is KirbyBot, who doesn't have an opinion to his name, forms weak cases, and whose overall contribution consists of disagreeing with people, forming a baseless assumption or case, contradicting themselves a few posts later, then disappearing.

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We've also got someone who is just going along with what others say and has emotional outbursts. Is this supposed to be new information? You're preaching to the choir. We're waiting on KBot to post.

Vote Count 9

Kirby-Bot (5) - MacMan, FrozenFlame, MarshEE, Chacotaco, vanderzant
MarshEE (1) - OverSwarm
Omni (1) - Nicholas1024
Not Voting (5) - ZenSei, Tom, Meta-Kirby, Kirbyoshi, Omni

With 12 Alive, It Takes A Vote Of 7 To Lynch!

DeadLine Is ThursDay July 22nd 11:59:59 PM EST.


Modnote: Kirbyoshi replaces Kirby-Bot, Clownbot has lost interest

Modnote: Kirbyoshi replaces Kirby-Bot, Clownbot has lost interest

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^Lmao!

Ah, I can see it now.

Kirbyoshi: "I don't know why Clownbot said what he said! Anyway, I'm not scum."

anyway, i'll be V/LA for a major portion of tomorrow. hosting a tournament! i'll still be on tonight. wish people would taaaalk mooooooore nyaaaa

@mod

I'm assuming clownbot told you he lost interest, and KYoshi said nothing.

Can you prod him?

so im kinda buzzin right now cuz I went drinking after my hockey game and im actually going to drink more

as much as you guys want me to post this game is ****ing legit and I actually need to be cognitive to follow up on my last post and flesh out the stuff that you guys had questions about.

so yeah i promise I'll post something legit by midnight tomorrow if I don't lynch my ***

i almost had a hat trick btw. ****in puck was literally on the line >_<

Nich, your meta on Omni about his question is just stupid. I don't see ANY underlying scummy intentions. The fact that your basing a case on this is WEAK. Marshy says you do this as Town, but regardless, I think it's making you see scummy things elsewhere in Omni's play, when I really can't see them myself. Read the whole thread as well.

Same with you OS, you don't like Omni's posting style? Get over it. It sheds nothing on his alignment if that's how he always plays. Omni is repeating himself, but that's more a fault of you not letting something simple go.

I agree with Marshy when he said earlier on that succinctness is important for Town.

And obligatory *headdesk* at Clownbot losing interest >.<. Let's just get him replaced already... plenty of time left.

*sigh*. Maybe if I switched track and said that Omni was town, you guys would lynch him then... nobody ever believes me.

@Vand
Go back and reread Marathon mafia D. My case that I used there and nailed him applies just the same here. (It let's scum-Omni know who the weaklings are that he can easily push mislynches on later) If I can find a case of him doing it as town I'll back off of it, but until I do so, it's full steam ahead on this one.

Also @OS/Omni and others in general. I get this vibe from a lot of players that you want to hear more from me; or a general distaste towards sitting back on Day 1 and just commenting (as I generally do). Plus I'm just generally slow at reading/posting. So be more direct if you want specifics.

Ninja'd: Nich I was in that game, I know. But wanting to lynch him over something like that is really... uh, bad.

Nich, can you honestly get a read on Omni based solely on your experience during a 27-minute day in Marathon D? The thread is all screwed up as well (last page?), so I can't exactly gauge what happened. So you're saying that your previous experience in a MARATHON game is enough to drive your case?

vanderzant said:

Also @OS/Omni and others in general. I get this vibe from a lot of players that you want to hear more from me; or a general distaste towards sitting back on Day 1 and just commenting (as I generally do). Plus I'm just generally slow at reading/posting. So be more direct if you want specifics.

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it's not really specifics that i want. rather, i'd like to see you doing what you just did. taking initiative without anyone having to ask you a question.

@nich: you're being thickheaded. it's a null-tell. if i was town or indy in that game would you apply that same theory that i am town or indy here because i said the same thing? that would not be wise in the least bit

OS you didn't answer my questions.

@MarshEE: M-K is the only other person that is recognizably scummy to me atm.

In terms of lynch priority I am sitting at this: KY >>>> M-K >> Omni > OS

vanderzant said:

Also @OS/Omni and others in general. I get this vibe from a lot of players that you want to hear more from me; or a general distaste towards sitting back on Day 1 and just commenting (as I generally do). Plus I'm just generally slow at reading/posting. So be more direct if you want specifics.

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vanderzant said:

Same with you OS, you don't like Omni's posting style? Get over it. It sheds nothing on his alignment if that's how he always plays. Omni is repeating himself, but that's more a fault of you not letting something simple go.

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FoS Vanderzant

OS you didn't answer my questions.

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Eh? Whar?

Overswarm what are your PBPs meant to accomplish? They seem to be getting weaker and weaker each new person you do. The one you did on me was just a bunch of "meh"s and I really don't see much use for the one you did on Vanz. Was the one you did on Omni so detailed with analyzable simply because you found him scummy? Or do you find all the people you are doing PBPs on suspicious in some way? I'm just unclear on what your actual goal is for posting those. The questions you ask at the end have no relation to the posts you quote so why quote them?

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These questions?

They're meant to be an open recap of (most) of what I think. I make a few comments, ask a few questions. Others are free to jump in. It makes it easier for others to look at other people's posts in the past, too.

Fine. I'm only asking you to dig up a counter-example, but it looks like I'll have to spread my query

@everyone
Has ANYONE seen Omni use that "who's weakest" question as town in ANY game? Anyone at all? Also, has anyone seen him use it as scum/indy (in a game besides marathon mafia D, that one I know about)?

Nich, Omni could be scum. I know it, you know it. His playstyle is weaker this game than normal. I know it, you know it. We all know he should have been playing better early game.

This is reason for suspicion, but not a concrete stance. You're deliberately putting on blinders; you've explained it that way yourself. The last time you did it, you let Cello (indie) win when no one sane would ever have let him do so. Tunneling is dangerous.

Even if we found 100% usage for Omni as scum and 0% as anything else, it doesn't confirm him as scum. Keep him on your scum list, watch him closely, and ask him pointed questions. THEN try to lynch him later.

Overswarm said:

This is reason for suspicion, but not a concrete stance. You're deliberately putting on blinders; you've explained it that way yourself. The last time you did it, you let Cello (indie) win when no one sane would ever have let him do so. Tunneling is dangerous.

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Just a quick note. There were only 4 people who suspected that cello wasn't town and had any reasoning whatsoever behind it. Cello, Kat, Ronike, and Xiivi. He played perfectly that game.

Anyways, people are saying my meta is incomplete. Fine, it's not as complete as I would like it either. However, rather then try to fill in the gaps in my meta to make it more accurate, they're just insulting it and trying to get me to abandon it completely. That is not pro-town.

But anyways, I suppose I should go back and look at other people. But Omni, I've got my eye on you.

@Everyone
Aside from Omni and kirb-bot, who's scum? (I'm not entirely sure on that one just yet. I'll get back to you) I plan to make a list like in DBZ.

Nicholas1024 said:

Just a quick note. There were only 4 people who suspected that cello wasn't town and had any reasoning whatsoever behind it. Cello, Kat, Ronike, and Xiivi.

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actually as soon as he claimed bp lover i thought he was scum and that ronike probably used a variant of toms indy siblings from ff7

*flex*

but yeah nick i dont know why you have this defeated tone about omni. reading the thread (do it already?) would probably provide you with more ammo to go after him with and i think itd answer that question you posed to me earlier. it also seems like your questions would still stand so omni couldnt use the "why do i care about what you have to say? you havent read the thread" card. plus him asking that question as town before is verifiable according to him. so lets ask im

omni which games have you asked that question before? no need to link just say the games and ill find em myself

and to answer your question: zensei

frozenflame751 said:

sso yeah i promise I'll post something legit by midnight tomorrow if I don't lynch my ***

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*licks chops*

pretty sure potential vig needs to cap a ***** tonight. currently dwelling on a pool of people who are on "can just go die" status andll probably post it whenever i talk to ee and/or reread

Tom said:

no, EE's portion of your post was hella dumb. i did not like. if he is just gonna name call then he can just let you do all of the talking (hes not that good anyways).

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butthurt about old games/playstyle? hes played well in all of his recent games

speaking of hella dumb...ees portion of my post mayve been worded aggressively but to dismiss it as namecalling when it had legit analysis of os' PLAY (in THIS GAME only) is just redonkulous. probably why he didnt respond to it just like he always does when losing an argument. cute white knighting tho

got a prod
ill brb

@Nich: I'm liking OS less and less.

Tom said:

if k-bot or mk are lynched while i am gone i will be fine with that anyone else and i will probably be mad

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why metakirby? Doesn't really make sens eto me.

Chacotaco said:

Alright, so, that was a lot of reading for nothing. I think Marshee pretty much hit my opinion on it, so instead of feigning activity I'll just open myself up to question on the whole ordeal.

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pretty much this

marshy are yous till pushing an OS lynch? how is your reasoning for that anything more than, 'his push on omni was stupid'?

marshEE said:

macman and omni please fos overswarm

mk...wow...269 was on par with os reading level. 6 days is plenty of time and os is a GREAT lynch candidate today. not that k-bot isnt but yeah os' blatant ignoring of omnis roflstomp post where he ****s all over os' pathetic excuses for scumhunting and appropriately questions him is redonkulous and makes him a fantastic play. like do you not understand why thats questionable? just keep humming the mantra 'os is always wrong. os is always wrong. os is always wrong' to yourself if thats what it takes to disregard os' bad offenses. so far hes kept his vote on me/omni all game. neither of us are plays. he might as well have not voted over the course of the game

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cuz this is pretty dumb
none of this explains why OS should die