Proper Punishing Thread--Week 1: Metaknight

O.o ya what they said good deal man.

I'm basically just looking through a characters frame data. If I see the actual advantages on shield I'll calculate the rest.

Fox...

jab1
advantage is -11 (-4 on shield): I think Nair works

jab2
advantage is -10 (-3 on shield): Nothing seems to work here

ftilt
advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): jab, grab, nair or usmash if he's close enough; dtilt or fair if it's well spaced

dtilt
advantage is -15 (-8 on shield): Usmash, jab, dtilt, nair or fair; grab if he's close enough

utilt
advantage is -20 (-13 on shield): Any smash, nair, fair, grab

dash attack
advantage is -31 (-24 on shield): P. much everything

fsmash
advantage is -23 (-16 on shield): Fsmash, dsmash, fair, nair; grab or usmash if not fully spaced

usmash
advantage is -33 (-26 on shield): P. much everything

dsmash
advantage is -36 (-29 on shield): Lots of stuff

***note: I didn't do fox's aerials because I don't think any of the numbers on the Fox boards are correct. There's no way that Fox' nair is -42 (-35 on shield). I think they didn't take autocancel into account which makes the whole thing worthless***

shine
advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): jab, dtilt, grab, usmash, fair


GW...

jab
advantage is -10 (-3 on shield): N/A

ftilt
advantage is -24 (-17 on shield): any smash, fair, nair, ftilt

utilt
advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): Usmash, fair, dtilt, jab, grab

dtilt
advantage is -17 (-10 on shield): Usmash, fair, dtilt

dash attack
1st hit is -28 (-21 on shield): Any smash, ftilt, grab, jab, fair, nair
2nd hit is -20 (-13 on shield): same as 1st hit

fsmash
advantage is -19 (-12 on shield): I don't think fsmash works; ftilt, fair and maybe usmash do

dsmash
advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): ftilt and fair should work; not sure about usmash

usmash
advantage is -9 (-2 on shield): N/A

nair
perfect advantage with all hits is -8 (-1 on shield): grab if very close

fair
"perfect" advantage is -17 (-10 on shield): fair, usmash, ftilt, nair

bair
advantage is -10 (-3 on shield): just powershield the landing hitbox and punish him with whatever you want

dair
advantage is -12 (-5 on shield): nair

judgment
"5" has the smallest disadvantage:
-26 (-19 on shield): Any smash, fair, nair, ftilt

fox huh? i was expecting a different character l0ol but hey bai all means man, fox can be a bltch.
also meeps find on getting out of nado should be in here

Many character boards (Wolf included) have no advantages in their frame data so it's hard to find many chars you can do this with. Frame data - especially advantages - are so important and yet only few boards have it

Ike

jab1
advantage is -12 (-5 on shield): jab, nair

jab 2
advantage is -15 (-8 on shield): jab, grab, nair, fair, usmash, dtilt

jab 3
advantage is -17 (-10 on shield): jab, grab, fair, nair, usmash, dsmash, ftilt

dash attack
advantage is -30 (-23 on shield): any smash, nair, fair, bair, ftilt

tilts:
advantage is betwen -32 and -34 (between -26 and -28 on shield): p. much everything can punish Ike's tilts. Fsmash, ftilt or fair are the best moves to punish a well spaced ftilt

smashes:
Ike's safest smash is the back hit of dsmash with -32 (-26 on shield) - all of his smashes can easily be punished with an fsmash of your own

Nair
"perfect normal" advantage is -9 (-2 on shield): can be shieldgrabbed if not spaced well

fair
"perfect normal" advantage is -17 (-10 on shield): fair, ftilt, dsmash

bair
"perfect normal" advantage is -17 (-10 on shield): same as fair

uair
"perfect normal" advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): jab, usmash, dtilt, nair

dair
"perfect normal" advantage is -23 (-16 on shield): any smash, fair, nair, jab, tilts

eruption
advantage is -45 (-38 on shield): p. much everything

quick draw
advantage is -51 (-44 on shield) if fully charged or -53 (-46 on shield) if not. Easy to punish

ether
last hit is -33 (-26 on shield): punish it like you would punish any of Ike's smashes. P. sure that usmash and dair both work

Toon Link

jab1
advantage is -12 (-5 on shield): jab, grab, nair
linking to jab 2 is -8 (-1 on shield): grab

jab2
advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): jab, grab, naur, usmash, fair
linking to jab 2 is -11 (-4 on shield): grab

jab3
advantage is -29 (-22 on shield): any smash, nair, fair, any tilt

Dash attack
advantage is -27 (-20 on shield): any smash, any tilt, nair, fair

Dtilt
advantage is -10 (-3 on shield): grab

Ftilt
advantage is -17 (-10 on shield): Dsmash, Usmash, fair, nair, ftilt

Utilt (front hit)
advantage is -18 (-11 on shield): same as ftilt

Utilt (back hit)
advantage is -15 (-8 on shield): Usmash, Fair, nair, dtilt, jab

Dsmash (front hit)
advantage is -38 (-31 on shield): p. much everything

Dsmash (back hit)
advantage is -29 (-22 on shield): any smash, nair, fair, any tilt

Fsmash (first hit)
linking to 2nd hit is -16 (-9 on shield): Usmash, Fair, dsmash, ftilt, dtilt, jab, grab

Fsmash (second hit)
advantage is -33 (-26 on shield): p. much everything

Usmash (front hit)
advantage is -22 (-15 on shield): Any smash, any tilt, fair, nair

Usmash (back hit)
advantage is -20 (-13 on shield): same as front hit

Nair
ideal advantage is -12 (-5 on shield): grab, nair

Fair
ideal advantage is -14 (-7 on shield): Fair, Usmash, Nair, dtilt

Bair
ideal advantage is -8 (-1 on shield): grab

Uair
ideal advantage is -16 (-9 on shield): Fair, Usmash, Nair, ftilt

Zair
ideal advantage is -1 (+6 on shield ): N/A


Peach

jab1
advantage is -16 (-9 on shield): Usmash, Dsmash, Fair, nair, ftilt
(this works only if she doesn't use her 2nd jab - she can do her jab 2 from frame 8 to frame 30)

jab2
advantage is -19 (-12 on shield): Usmash, Dsmash, Fair, Nair, ftilt

Dtilt
advantage is -13 (-6 on shield): Nair, dtilt, jab

ftilt
advantage is -26 (-19 on shield): Usmash, fsmash, dsmash, fair, nair, any tilt

Utilt
advantage is -23 (-16 on shield): same as ftilt

Fsmash
advantage is -21 (-14 on shield): Any smash, fair, nair, ftilt

Dsmash
advantage is -23 (-16 on shield): same as ftilt and utilt

Usmash
advantage is -24 (-17 on shield): same as above

Dash attack
advantage is -19 (-12 on shield): Usmash, dsmash, fair, nair, ftilt

Nair
optimal advantage is -7 (-0 on shield ): grab

Dair ("normal")
optimal advantage is -9 (-2 on shield): grab

Dair (auto-canceled)
optimal advantage is -3 (+4 on shield ): N/A

Fair / Bair
optimal advantage is 0 (+7 on shield ): N/A

Uair
optimal advantage is -5 (+2 on shield ): N/A

Wow I have the feeling that you made this one just for Kunai thx lol.

peach is good.

About Wolf's Usmash. It says damage on frame 13. What about Usmash Out of shield? Would that be frame 14?

I believe so, if you cancel it on the earliest frame of your jumpsquat animation.

Since choice seems to be pretty inactive I've decided to make a thread about this with all available frame data.

i think this should maybe be put on hold for a little bit.

choice_ said:

i think this should maybe be put on hold for a little bit.

Click to expand...

classic example of the wolf who cried useful thread!

Yeaaah........ It happens lol. But Gheb was collecting good data, perhaps he wants to take over?

I will probably make a new thread for all characters that have frame data available but I'll make a new one for that. Will take a while anyway.

And not a thread for each character but one thread for all characters ofc.

do it to it gheb =)

as soon as i settle a few more things with school i'll start another project i have in mind which i think is possibly more vital.

School has a funny way of screwing over your productivity in every other aspect of life.

And then you procrastinate with school too, so basically school ruins everything.

Or maybe that's just me and I'm pissing off because I just found out that there's a ****ton of homework due Wednesday :<