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Video Critique Thread

duals

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Geist

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@Duck
There wasn't much I could see that you were doing wrong. Vs Falcon matches all I really can suggest is being a little more aggressive with your edgeguarding.

Vs Puff Unfortuanately I can't say much, I don't face many Puffs. Stage control is important, charge beam *****, and NEVER tech towards them.



@Duals
1st video:
- less grabbing. If the falcon is anything like the ones I play he'll be very arial heavy, and grabs pretty much won't work. You don't want to be vulnerable for a full 2 seconds against Falcon. iirc you never actually got a grab either lol
- You were using dash attack well, but you might want to use it more sparringly. Getting shield grabbed is a pain in the ***. I'm just surprised Falcon didn't catch on earlier.
- Your SDs obviously need to be worked on
- Keep mobile on the ground vs Falcon. This matchup really requires you to stay out of the air because Falcon's aerials will tear through yours. Make sure you take note when he approaches, with what move, and if he's overshooting or undershooting, and adjust yourself accordingly.
- Keep mental notes of everything he does. He was airdodging too much, so charge up a smash attack or something and beast him. He missed more than half of his techs and the ones he did get, he teched in place, so you can follow up with pretty much any move.

2nd vid
- Everything I said above still applies, so I'll just point out general ****
- You got hit by Falcon punch lol. Keep your eyes on your opponent
- Sometimes you use a move where another move would be much more effective. If you can hit him with a smash attack like at :45, do it. You whiffed a bair and got killed for it.
- No rolling. *shakes fist*

3rd vid
- Get your *** out of the air lmao
- You wd too much. Well not too much, its just that it's pretty much your only form of ground movement so switch it up. Dashing lets you be more precise and sexy.
- Shield is your friend, forever and always. Use it more to not die.

4th vid
-same as above, but you played this match better than your other ones. I didn't watch the whole thing lol

5th vid
- try not to stay in one place. Example @:28, you don't want to hang around doing moves when he's ----> over there. Mobilize yourself; it doesn't seem like that big of a thing but it makes a world of difference.

6th vid
- Doc can be an annoying matchup. It's really hit and run for both sides. You're going to have trouble comboing him, and he's not going to combo you if you don't let him.
- grabbing is also risky in this matchup. I usually avoid it unless I'm tech chasing. Doc has such a nice shorthop, I'm so jealous.
- A fun trick is to bait his cape with a missile. If you dash attack your reflected missile the attacks clank, and you're free to do anything you want, ie, smash his face in with an fsmash.
- Be a little more active with your edgeguarding. Nairing Doc off the stage when he has no jumps usually means he loses a stock.
 

duals

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thanks a lot blow... to be honest though, i hardly ever grab.. heh

showed some vids to eggz and he said some of the things you did, but I also need to stop shield grabbing and FF off platforms...
 

Pi

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ggcj-xp960
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSZIyTOdpz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBEEwwXbX0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-p4_97Jy2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-qI3LxHzzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m79LaoYdZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPsXBtN96ng


Zer0's one of my good good friends, but man I get pissed off fighting him lol.

We fought again today, started staying ground a lot more, ftilting, trying to CC more, had better success, I feel like we're playing chess when we are fighting though.


Any tips would be greatly appreciated, I hate losing!! Lol
And feel free to say anything you think I may already know, idc
 

DeezNutZ

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ggcj-xp960
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSZIyTOdpz0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBEEwwXbX0Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-p4_97Jy2E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-qI3LxHzzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m79LaoYdZ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPsXBtN96ng


Zer0's one of my good good friends, but man I get pissed off fighting him lol.

We fought again today, started staying ground a lot more, ftilting, trying to CC more, had better success, I feel like we're playing chess when we are fighting though.


Any tips would be greatly appreciated, I hate losing!! Lol
And feel free to say anything you think I may already know, idc
Im going to add these to my video thread and others that have been recently posted if thats cool, on the 3rd match u got upaired like 4 times in a row gotta di out of that quicker. Id also say throw in some wavedash back ftilts angled low or normal also baiting is forward smash into a grab or into an uptilt is helpful as it sets up for a few different things. Grab game is tricky cuz marth can jump out of alot of thing with down or upthrow. Id say watch his di and try to catch with a high angle ftilt or a nair while hes tumbling.
 

Pi

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That upair match was just me being stubborn
I didn't expect him to keep upairing, he usually does utilt, but in this case...yea...I won't let that happen again lol

I'll try to bait some more, but he's usually just as patient as I am


And it's fine if you want to upload these matches, but we play all the time and we'll probably have a bunch more recorded so it might get a little flooded...

I also have some more on my channel of me vs. some others at a little house tourney I hosted
 

DeezNutZ

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That upair match was just me being stubborn
I didn't expect him to keep upairing, he usually does utilt, but in this case...yea...I won't let that happen again lol

I'll try to bait some more, but he's usually just as patient as I am


And it's fine if you want to upload these matches, but we play all the time and we'll probably have a bunch more recorded so it might get a little flooded...

I also have some more on my channel of me vs. some others at a little house tourney I hosted
right on ill look into that, if u do get marth above you do everything u can to keep him up there upair and nairs are useful for getting him off stage
 

Geist

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Stop letting his *** back onstage lol.
(1st vid)
@ :38 you could have renewed your invincibility and he would have died
@ :56 you missed an opportunity to roll back onstage to edgehog
And again @ 2:30 lol
5:49 not so bad but you might have been able to land an utilt or Dsmash.
... etc

On a side note those SHFFMs were mad sexy omg
 

Pi

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Stop letting his *** back onstage lol.
(1st vid)
@ :38 you could have renewed your invincibility and he would have died
@ :56 you missed an opportunity to roll back onstage to edgehog
And again @ 2:30 lol
5:49 not so bad but you might have been able to land an utilt or Dsmash.
... etc

On a side note those SHFFMs were mad sexy omg
Yea, I was in friendly mindset so I wasn't focusing too hard on edgeguarding but they were mistakes on my part

and yea, they look ****ing sexy right haha
 

Pi

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1st match:
You're throwing out too many moves that aren't hitting, peach is a character that you can react to, her approach isn't very fast (aside from her dash attack).
She's vulnerable when she's pulling turnips, and when she's floating, if you're not near/under her when she's floating shoot a missile in her path, judge whether or not you can approach from that. If you're under her upair is good, ub is good.
I haven't fought peaches who look that good edgeguarding, I don't know if maybe you're not use to turnips, or he's use to samus's recovery, but remember that you can nair through her turnips, you don't have to bomb, she can't relaly gimp you from below the stage and if you get a SS grapple you're almost guarantee'd back onto the stage vs. her unless she throws one right down at you, which isn't hard to tech/avoid.
Your nairs were good and your dash attacks were good, just make sure your dash attacks are not getting shielded ever.
If she wants to approach, let her. You can shield grab her dash attack, and UB anything else, her moves have stupid priority but ****ty reach.
Also when you ended up falling behind, you started to spot dodge. Spot dodging is not good in the peach matchup because her downsmash is stupid.

2nd match:
Don't go above peach w/ the intention of attacking. Only reason to go above her is to get around her to a more favorable position on the stage (same can be said for a lot of matchups, but this one I feel is pretty safe to go above them to get around).
Personally I light shield a LOT in this matchup, since samus can't shield grab her aerials and her downsmash usually pushes you to far away to UB I find it quite useful, though I did hear some where that you could shield grab her downsmash, it's probably not a bad idea. Might want to try asdi'ing away from it and shieldgrabbing once you're out of it's range. something to fool around with.
Your missiles don't always need to be MC'd, put them where you think she will be (if she's far enough away not to be able to punish you). Eliminate her options with them.
Every time she attacks your shield with an aerial, UB her. It's your only guarantee'd punish. In friendlies if you want to fool around with wavedash out punish, or something like that, fine, but in a tourney set just UB. It's really the only thing you can do reliably, and she shouldn't be attacking your shield any way.
If she's in the air, coming at you, just shield (obviously don't shield forever, but if it's happening quickly and she's already on top of you don't risk a WD out, just hold your shield and UB), she can't grab you from the air, her fair has a weird hitbox so WDing out is risky.

Match 3:
Guessing with your charge shots is not something I recommend, especially in this matchup. Peach is hard to kill, you need that. If she's already got a turnip, and is moving freely, don't charge shot. Use it instead to cut off her float, or punish her for plucking a turnip at a bad time. A lot of peaches feel safe about half the stage distance away and will probably pull a turnip when they land, so if do want to guess, that is a good time.
Don't approach her float, her dair, fair and nair all have stupid priority, if you have room to move, then wavedash back/shoot a missile at her. If you're back is too the edge of the stage, feel free to shield, what can she do dair at your shield and get UB'd?
I see you getting hit with a LOT of fairs coming back onto the stage. Fair is the worst thing you can get hit with imo, try baiting a move on her part then acting after she's acted. Or you can do some charge shot re-grabs, or missile re-grabs if you've got those down. Make her give up an option and then take it. Honestly my most used way to get back onto the stage now is either roll, or stand up normally. The thing hugs does is also really good if you've got them guessing, double jumping high enough so that you just BARELY make it back onto the stage.
Also you don't want to be attacking her shield either, her nair OoS is stupid good, don't be so eager to get a hit in, toward the end of the 3rd match I'm sure you can tell what was happening, that position is really bad to attack from. Just get a better more mobile position before you start approaching, and don't approach from the air if they're free to shield.

Match 4:
I probably wouldn't pick FD vs. peach, she doesn't benefit from platforms as much as you do, especially since you're wavelanding on them to approach and missile canceling on them
I need to start remembering this too but at low %'s, if you nair her and follow through with it, she can hit you out, so just get a nair in and back off.
Lol match 4 was just a series of ****ty events.
Nice chases on her UB, bair/nair/uair work well depending on where she's at.
If you ever do find yourself in a position where you are going to be hitting their shield, if you can, delay your nair till RIGHT before you hit the ground, & buffer a roll away. Orrr even better drop a bomb on their shield instead. Try to delay all of your moves until the last second before you would need to use it to hit. This avoid's putting yourself in a vulnerable position.
><, man toward the end I wanted you to CS so badly, the only thing peach can do to avoid a charge shot in the air is air dodge, throw it out there ><, especially if she's UB/floating/used float already. Her DJ is horrendous.

match 5:
being near the edge, especially on yoshi's story, isn't usually a good position. You seem to be doing well there, but obviously it provides less options for you, and can result in earlier deaths, try to put your opponent on the edge, or at the very least stay close to the middle of the stage.
Honestly you can't really follow up aerial's on peach with another aerial unless you fflc immediately. Fair into stuff works, but like I said you need to hit the ground right after you hit her with it.
If you are on the edge, and your opponent is below you, or going to be below you, just drop down and nair (not FF, just release and nair). You'll still have your DJ, air dodge, grapple, and UB to recover, and with any luck it'll stage spike them or at the very least knock them back away.
You prolly wanna be more careful when using smashes. Granted peach is a pretty unreliable matchup in general, but guessing with smashes is a lot more risky than guessing with say, a ftilt.
In this matchup I would say dtilt > dsmash, if you're not looking to kill her, since dtilt promises another hit. They both come out the same speed, idk about the reach difference though.
If your opponent is free to move around (ie, not vulnerable), don't follow through with attacks, throw out a spaced nair/fair/bair, one that won't get you punished if it gets shielded.
....ouch...(2:36)
deja vu from last match at the end. You're gettin way to aggro from the edge of the stage, regain a good position and start playing smart again. Nairing out of your DJ is sooooo risky, land, approach from the ground, or get to the middle of the stage and resume playing smart. Can't get too anxious playing samus.
Ballzy throwing out a grab at 125 lol.

Overall you've got a pretty nice samus. I like the agility, looks pretty smooth, just polish her off. Save those CS's, don't spot dodge when you get anxious, don't get anxious in general, throw out less (smash) attacks that don't hit, add more variety in your missiles, shoot them low/mid/high and every where in between, just shoot them where your opponent is going to try to go. Work on getting back to the stage, fair is not always the best option.
 

Geist

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Kniht covered mostly everything (actually I'm not 100%, sure I didn't bother reading his novel) so I'll just add a few general matchup stuff.

Turnips can be a pest off stage, and your vids showed no exception.
Watch them carefully and airdodge accordingly, they're actually pretty easy to dodge with practice, since there can only be one flying at you at a time.
Or for something a little more challenging, learn to catch the *******s. If you get consistant, not only will you be able to recover safely, but as soon as you show you're consistant, the Peach will most likely stop throwing them - or at least stop mindlessly spamming.
Or you can be a sexy best and do this: *first two clips*

Peach is pretty slow movement-wise, so missiles are naturally safer, and you can get away with them at closer distances.
Punish Dsmash with Charge beams and grabs. Spot dodging her aerials usually ends up with you being dsmashed, so WD away.
 

DarrellD

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Just tell me my habbits or tell me what i should be looking for. I felt like i could have ***** this up on YS, but he just ***** me there lol
 

Geist

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Needs more platform tech chasing :D
Uhm, I guess you missed a few risky grabs, and chanced a lot of Uairs and got punished.

On Yoshi's it looks like he just clobbered you with your lack of space, plus quick deaths to the sides suck against Falcon, it was a legit CP.
 

THE RED SPARROW

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Too good!

Just tell me my habbits or tell me what i should be looking for. I felt like i could have ***** this up on YS, but he just ***** me there lol
If anything it was Hax who wasn't understanding how to handle the matchup You were playing pretty **** well, and Yoshi Story is a bad stage against Falcon in general so it's no surprise you lost there.


Hax should've:

-Whored Nair more. Seriously it eats through missiles, ***** shields, and there's not much Samus can do against it.

-***** Uair every time you're above him and SHFFL Uair on your shield. Save for a well-timed Nair (which will trade) Samus has no moves in a her arsenal to contest CF's Uair once you're above him.

-Lastly, Hax should've grabbed the ledge once you were off the stage. This forces your grapple to never sweet spot and ******* your options significantly. He can just use a retreating Bair or Dair and even if it trades you lose.



The only slight (and I do mean slight) caveat I can give you is that Jab-D-Tilt is very unsafe against Falcon in general, fortunately, not a lot of Falcon players know this so it's situational.


BTW, I have a question for you- can the Shield-Bomb into waveland be countered or is there frame advantage? I saw you use it frequently in a match against Marth so I'm wondering?
 

TheLifeRuiner

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i think you approached at some times when you shouldn't have (and were subsequently punished)
i also think bomb recovery vs falcon is dangerous anywhere not below stage level. even then it's dangerous


i dunno what else
 

DarrellD

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If anything it was Hax who wasn't understanding how to handle the matchup You were playing pretty **** well, and Yoshi Story is a bad stage against Falcon in general so it's no surprise you lost there.


Hax should've:

-Whored Nair more. Seriously it eats through missiles, ***** shields, and there's not much Samus can do against it.

-***** Uair every time you're above him and SHFFL Uair on your shield. Save for a well-timed Nair (which will trade) Samus has no moves in a her arsenal to contest CF's Uair once you're above him.

-Lastly, Hax should've grabbed the ledge once you were off the stage. This forces your grapple to never sweet spot and ******* your options significantly. He can just use a retreating Bair or Dair and even if it trades you lose.



The only slight (and I do mean slight) caveat I can give you is that Jab-D-Tilt is very unsafe against Falcon in general, fortunately, not a lot of Falcon players know this so it's situational.


BTW, I have a question for you- can the Shield-Bomb into waveland be countered or is there frame advantage? I saw you use it frequently in a match against Marth so I'm wondering?
Falcon's nair loses to samus nair every time. I only through them out there because i knew what he liked to do out of shield.

And to answer your question, i have no idea haha. Im unable to test frame data so im still looking for anyone that can help me with it :confused:
On a side note, its great for shield stabbing haha
 

Pi

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there's no frame advantage for shield bomb waveland

the waveland itself has like 10 frames of lag before you can do anything
 

Pi

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So in other words, dont bother with trying to look pretty?
lol, even if that is what i said, would you stop using it?


just because it lacks frame advantage, doesn't mean it is without advantage within human fallibility.


i definitely think it has it's uses, and if nothing else it keeps your opponent guessing. if they're expecting a shield grab and you end up behind them, and they've gone and thrown out the grab any way, that could be a hit, or if you can't get a hit, you can force a defensive reaction from them which can be read/reacted to (spotdodge/shield/roll)

just like shine, bomb has a lot of options out of it, granted not AS MANY options, but still, options.

samus has a lot of disadvantageous matchups, but the more you can force your opponent to guess, the more even the match becomes
 

THE RED SPARROW

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Falcon's nair loses to samus nair every time. I only through them out there because i knew what he liked to do out of shield.
Falcon's Nair only loses if you can intercept it, if SHFFL'd from a distance or you're forced to shield it, the move is fairly hard to contest.


As for the shield bomb waveland, I wanted to know because it looks cool and a nice mindgame overall. :)
 

Geist

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I doesn't matter if a move has a frame advantage, in all honesty it's hard to take advantage of the moves that even do have them.
Darrell you should take it a step further and try bombing out of shield into a wavedash.
 

DarrellD

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I doesn't matter if a move has a frame advantage, in all honesty it's hard to take advantage of the moves that even do have them.
Darrell you should take it a step further and try bombing out of shield into a wavedash.
I started doing that exact thing ever since i play lucky in some friendlies at GSG. Since he light shields after every hit, up-B isnt to safe. I got this =D
 

Geist

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Seeeeeeeeeeeeeexxx
That's pretty smart, UpB OoS for hard shield, and Bomb OoS for light shield...

*sprints to gamecube*
 

zDuck

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hmm didn't know where to put this so i guess i'll put this here. Rat you asked how i played the matchup against marth and this is how i do it. Note that many things i do in this video are questionable >.>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUbxHVw1Zzk <---- massive johns about 1st game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stJa9xdNDtU&feature=sub

also to duals i watched your match against that jiggs, every time you dash attacked i got scared lol. when puff is on the ground you should NEVER EVER dash attack
 

duals

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also to duals i watched your match against that jiggs, every time you dash attacked i got scared lol. when puff is on the ground you should NEVER EVER dash attack
its funny you say that, because it wasn't until yesterday i found out why that is a bad idea. heh
 

Kone

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Falcon's Nair only loses if you can intercept it, if SHFFL'd from a distance or you're forced to shield it, the move is fairly hard to contest.


As for the shield bomb waveland, I wanted to know because it looks cool and a nice mindgame overall. :)
What does this look like?

I doesn't matter if a move has a frame advantage, in all honesty it's hard to take advantage of the moves that even do have them.
Darrell you should take it a step further and try bombing out of shield into a wavedash.
Again?

Seeeeeeeeeeeeeexxx
That's pretty smart, UpB OoS for hard shield, and Bomb OoS for light shield...

*sprints to gamecube*
Elaborate pls?
 

Geist

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^^
Basically when Samus is hit by her own bomb, she goes into the airborne morph ball animation, and this can be cancelled into anything as soon as you enter it.
So 'wavebombing' is pretty much bombing the enemy or their shield, and cancelling it with an airdodge This can also be done out of your shield similar to how Fox can shine out of his.
 

Pi

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What does this look like?



Again?



Elaborate pls?
Bomb OoS is exactly what it sounds like
You just jump, then down B, out of your shield

wavebombing is where you air dodge right after the bomb explodes on you & your opponent
after the bomb explodes you are free to input any command
so airdodging will cause you to waveland, which allows for another bomb/any action out of a waveland.

Oh wow, guess I didn't reload the page

but yea. basically what blowtoes said
 
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