Project M Social Thread

Kink-Link5 said:

Melee Jiggs bair is ridiculous

I'd say it's pretty disjointed.

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OMGWTFBBQ o.O BS hitbox is BS
jiggz is like a flying snake wtf

Maybe this thread would be easier on us all if we actually answered the questions that devs have for us and refrain from posting what we know deep down inside isn't going to happen.

[edit] That jigglypuff bair hitbox is my favorite thing about her. And, as has been mentioned, Jigglypuff is undeniably top tier. She doesn't need our attention.

Does anyone know where a video of Brawl Link's hitboxes are? I'm trying to get a comparison.

Gamedominator06 said:

Does anyone know where a video of Brawl Link's hitboxes are? I'm trying to get a comparison.

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edit: nvm i think i deleted the pac file hitbox showing link thing a week ago =_= bcuz i you know.. quit brawl.. haha <_< stupid me. i'm sure it's on allisbrawl's link boards somewhere though.

Sure, although two videos side-by-side would be a tad more useful.
But go ahead and see if you can find it.

Also, I'm thinking Melee Uair and Dair have superior hitboxes. His Dair does indeed reach into him. His Uair has fairly large boxes compared to the sword itself.
However, his USmash is horrendous. His UTilt is downright sexy and all I could really ask for on that is hitboxes on earlier frames so that he covers his front completely.

Gamedominator06 said:

Sure, although two videos side-by-side would be a tad more useful.
But go ahead and see if you can find it.

Also, I'm thinking Melee Uair and Dair have superior hitboxes. His Dair does indeed reach into him. His Uair has fairly large boxes compared to the sword itself.
However, his USmash is horrendous.

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alright. if i find it i could make a video for you if it would help.

u air can hit before he lands unlike brawl's. d air hits above so ya they're better. brb off to find the hitbox thingy


edit: i found it

I don't feel that I can judge the other's well enough at this time to make a clear decision so I'll just do link.



Link:

Jab- I really like his brawl jabs. I think keeping the 3 jabs from brawl and just adding the rapid hit at the end would be best.

Dash attack- Melee with brawl range please?

Ftilt- I would say brawl's with a bit faster startup

Utilt- I'm gonna go with melee on this one

Dtilt- Both seem more or less the same to me. Not particularly useful in either though due to the slow startup.

Grab- Might just be me but it felt like melee's had more range

Fthrow- Brawl

Uthrow- Melee

Dthrow- Melee

Bthrow- Brawl

Fsmash- Not really sure on this one. I rarely used either but I'm kinda of tempted to say melee's

Usmash- Brawl

Dsmash- Melee

Nair- Melee please

Fair- ^

Uair- Is there a difference besides knockback? I say just use melee with brawl range

Dair- Another one that I'm not too sure of the difference.

Bair- They both seem fine to me but I'll just say melee

B- Brawl >>>> melee

Up B- Melee

Side B- I strongly wish this was like 64 but if not then I'm wondering how good a multihit return would be.

Down B- Brawl

I apologize for not reading the page in it's entirety, my point stands that I find it funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb5amTV1fuc

link's brawl hitboxes.

found it for ya. aren't i awesome? <_<

Alright, thanks Sora-kun. I figured you were going to send to me so I could compare on my Wii, but that'll actually work out much better.

EDIT: Ah... ha. Well then! I'll take a look and get results in a minute or so.
Updating over time so I'll get one at a time.

Jab - It's close, but Brawl's does indeed have more range. As for properties, I wasn't aware of the more effective hitstun but I do find myself using B+ Link's full jab much more often than in Melee for that last hit.

Dash Attack - Melee easily; it has large coverage upon the starting hitbox and even extends behind him. Honestly, I'd just factor Brawl's range into it and that's it.

FTilt - Melee's starts from behind but lacks a hitbox around the end of the sword when it reaches in front of him. Brawl's has constant coverage over this spot, but lacks the behind coverage. A mix of the two would be good.

UTilt - Melee's, no contest. It has superior front and back coverage. Once again, just keep Brawl's improved range.

DTilt - Woo, Brawl's has hitboxes around Link's face and it also comes with the improved range. Melee's only has slightly larger hitboxes at the tip.

FSmash - Either it's me or the hitbox hack, but it seems Brawl Link's hitboxes start quite late into the first hit. It's the same deal on the second hit. If someone could explain that to me, I'll make a decision on this one.

USmash - Brawl, no kidding. Better side and tip coverage. Melee properties for juggling.

DSmash - Not too many differences, but both Melee's hitboxes and properties are better.

Nair - Melee, Melee, Melee, Melee. Although the hitbox on Link's right knee in Brawl has a little more extension. As for properties, you can't top having a hitbox last the entirety of the animation so Melee as well as less startup frames.

Fair - Brawl's hitboxes are generally larger and the one around the hilt is a bit larger; there was an addition of another hitbox on Link's body too. Melee's properties are much better though. Mix them both I guess.

Bair - Melee seems to have better body coverage while Brawl's has slightly more range. Also, Brawl's Bair animation bothers the hell out of me with the way he leaves one leg hanging compared to Melee Link's tuck. Heck, I'm curious if it leaves hurtboxes open. If that's the case, Melee's is superior.

Uair - Hard to say, actually. Brawl's only suffers from different landing detection because it looks the same otherwise. I would just take Melee's properties.

Dair - Melee's has superior body coverage, but the bottom hitbox could be extended a tiny bit to get the tip. Also, I would try and make it so that Dair always bounces at the least.

Grab - It seems like Melee's has more range.

Up Special (Ground) - Both share just about the same range, but Melee's has a little more coverage around the sword. Melee's properties obviously.

Up Special (Air) - Melee's hitboxes are almost always present so Link's back gets some slight coverage too. Brawl's might have better cover near the body.

Landing detection plays a huge part into Link's aerials. I always feel like I have trouble landing Fair or Nair on shorter characters in B+ because he lands too early.

Done. The Brawl video did not show the Gale Boomerang, Bombs, and Bow.

Gamedominator06 said:

Alright, thanks Sora-kun. I figured you were going to send to me so I could compare on my Wii, but that'll actually work out much better.

EDIT: Ah... ha. Well then! I'll take a look and get results in a minute or so.
Updating over time so I'll get one at a time.

Jab - It's close, but Brawl's does indeed have more range. As for properties, I wasn't aware of the more effective hitstun but I do find myself using B+ Link's full jab much more often than in Melee for that last hit.

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ya the link for the pac was wrecked or something and there was a video there. much quicker.

glad to help.

edit: smartass me just figured out why link's u air hits when he lands in melee and not brawl =_=
landing. detection. DUH -facepalm- ~.~

This looks to be insane, i cannot wait, I will follow all development on this, you guys are doing a great job. Just a quick question, will this work alongside texture loading? As I would love to be able to use customs with this.

Yes it works with textures...

BTW What's going on with Landing Detection? Is that working smooth yet? I was not around for a few days so I have no Idea what I missed lol.

Virtually no progress. Lots of new and exciting dead ends.

Wind Owl said:

Virtually no progress. Lots of new and exciting dead ends.

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so i take it Dantarion's landing detection vid was just empty hype?

That is....terrible news.

sucks that landing detection hasn't gotten anywhere =/ but at least you know where the code is.


edit: sorry it didn't show the projectile hitboxes. apparently those are tricky and they don't know how to get them to show.. or.. something... but ya the pac file doesn't show those.

melee link's bombs have a smaller hitbox which i think is better because you can stand closer and throw it.

idk about the rang.
i've never had trouble with brawl arrow hitboxes so idk

If, as I've heard mentioned, the landing detection Dant found is attached to the stage and not the characters, is it possible that the code you're looking for doesn't exist?
Please explain.

no it exists, we just havent been lucky enough yet

My ideal YTL would have:


Jab- new one that works or melee's.

Dash attack- Melee's.

Ftilt- New one, if not, they're both the same :S.

Utilt- Brawl's.

Dtilt- Melee's but with brawl dtilt's speed.

Grab- Either one.

Fthrow- Both of them arent useful, so w/e.

Uthrow- ...

Dthrow- ...

Bthrow- ...

Fsmash- New one that works or brawl's.

Usmash- Brawl's.

Dsmash- Melee's.

Nair- Both are equally useful >_>. I'd say melee's though.

Fair- Brawl's with a little bit more speed.

Uair- Brawl's.

Dair- Melee's.

Bair- Brawl's.

B- Melee's.

Up B- Both are equally bad >_>.

Side B- Melee's.

Down B- Melee's definetely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imlMQESuvb4

Hehe.

lmao, I saw that when I was searching for Link's hitboxes.

hotdogturtle said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imlMQESuvb4

Hehe.

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I'm going to be disappointed if PMBR won't let me implement that.

Strong_Bad said:

Many changes from vBrawl to Brawl+ are also included in Project M. To list a few (but not all), Shielstun, No Autosweetspot Ledges, Tech Window, Hitlag Modifier, Momentum Capture, Shield During Dash Dance, Dash Cancel, and No Stale Moves.

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Stale moves in Melee:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OgCDwvLO8

Six knees combo possible thanks to stale moves (lol):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9UUq8BVqc

I hope you guys are not really getting rid of it.

We have to until there is a way to create damage stale only.

Still, there was knockback stale in Melee too (Watch the first video), just imagine a Cpt Falcon Spamming Knees... What I mean is that if you get rid of stale moves, there will be a lot of annoying and possibly cheap tactics.

XkaruX said:

Still, there was knockback stale in Melee too (Watch the first video), just imagine a Cpt Falcon Spamming Knees... What I mean is that if you get rid of stale moves, there will be a lot of annoying and possibly cheap tactics.

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Damage stales on all moves, but knockback only stales on B moves in melee.

If I remember that magus post correctly, knockback is calculated after damage, and damage stales in melee, so it indirectly has knockback staling. Brawl has this and an additional stale moves knockback reduction. I think that's what they're removing, not the indirect stale moves melee has.

Anyway, the point is.. stale moves exists in Melee, and it happens to any attack as Phanna's video shows, attacks deal less damage and knockback, go on training mode and try it yourself.

We know already, it's just that damage and knockback are connected, if we tried to do a damage stale right now it would affect ALL moves' knockback as well which is what we don't want, you saw what vBrawl did, that's the same kind of effect it would have.

It's just temporary right now until we get damage only to work.

Like Falco400 said, if indirect KB staling (or basically damage-only staling) could be reinstated it would be done. Brawl's system really hurts some characters like Sonic and also gives Sheik her stupid tilt lock. It's not a very favorable option.

EDIT: Kind of ninja'd by someone I was referencing.

Please make <insert favourite char> high tier please.

Lawlb0t said:

Please make <insert favourite char> high tier please.

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Roy is our boy, so we're nerf Marth to bottom-tier just for you.

#
SerpentusEternus
4 days ago 3

this is how captain falcon makes love.

on the knee video. i lmao'd.
anyway who else has yet to be discussed about there melee vs brawl hitboxes?

There is No way Links spin and nair are the same size as melee... I just played hours of melee then hours of PM then hours of melee ... Link entire model is smaller... His sword is just longer. Nair is huge in melee. Spin attack has more coverage around the top of link and a longer hitbox around the spin... Compare him to falcon in melee... Then (someone who has PM) compare then in PM... Link is much smaller in transition because of TP.

matt, that's because no one has done any of Link's hitboxes yet... not even size... (as far as porting them goes)

I only observed proportional hitboxes, ie. where the hitboxes appeared on Link in both games. I get the same feeling as you that Brawl's still doesn't have the same length.

Falco400 said:

matt, that's because no one has done any of Link's hitboxes yet... not even size... (as far as porting them goes)

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Wasen't hateing on P:M... I was hateing on brawls Link model, and how it was said that the hitboxes were similar in size.

NINJA BOMBING!!!!!!!! P:M HYPE!!!!! Link just got worlds better Imo....

matt4300 said:

There is No way Links spin and nair are the same size as melee... I just played hours of melee then hours of PM then hours of melee ... Link entire model is smaller... His sword is just longer.

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Yeah, it's weird. I definitely think we should take the best of Brawl (Longer sword, slightly better recovery UpB, connecting USmash) and combine it with the best of Melee. He needs the crazy hitboxes he had in Melee, especially Nair and UpB.

Matt - Get online tonight, we can work on porting Link hitboxes together. 'kay?