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Video Critique Thread
- Thread starter Corigames
- Start date
Pi
Smash Hero
it's pretty clear he doesn't know the matchup too well
you were catching him off guard a lot on the ground, tilts are really good, and he was WDing OoS a lot to counter your tilts, so the jabs to follow up worked nice
i was having pretty decent success spacing fairs vs. luigi's aerials, since it's a bit disjointed
your edgeguards need to be better, homing missiles are probably a good bet since his only means of horizontal movement is pretty much side B, it's probably best to force his jump, because he was getting back with that too often
bombs are nice to stop him from approaching from the ground
uhhh
also bair is fine to challenge his ****
idk i'm pretty inexperienced in the weegee matchup
duals
Smash Journeyman
only thing i could think of is being less obvious with the charge shot.
Maybe use it when he doesn't have a chance, like out of a throw or when recovering.
AntoPark
Smash Lord
Whenever I downthrew he went too high or didn't tech. :[[[[[
But yeah, I'll keep that in mind!
same for kniht!
thanks for the advice
Pi
Smash Hero
me vs. zer0 's marth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qob6seiY6tE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdebusHAAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFMbw9dowUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gMforHxRVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpnsGME3rvw
me vs. TANK's falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RU47PMf1nw
**** marth
falco's ok
K
In the marth matchup
I need more safe **** to do.
For the record, Ftilt is not safe. If you Ftilt his shield, he can fair you, when you get fair'd, it's tipper, and you'll go in the air, when you're in the air, well you know wtf happens when you're in the air.
I am still smashing on his shield a bit, from behind, because I feel that it's safe at least, as in, won't get punished. That's a conscious decision. In hindsight it would have been nice to get that grab, but if he jumps, just presses that x/y button, I'll get uptilted, fair'd, dair'd, something, anything which all puts me in the air, which leads to more you know what.
so yea
Basically this matchup sucks big fat hairy aids (no offense AIDS) infested monkey balls
But, it's totally winnable, let's discuss how;
I am looking for critiques here, because I use to **** this kid up and down, and now I'm winning about 35% of the time, and he's winning about 65% of the time (coincidence? no, ****ing gay *** matchup).
Theory craft here, anything you want to say say it, I'm gonna review these vids myself and try to find some **** I can do better a little later.
But ****...marth punishes SO hard, whereas we get like...a dtilt maybe, then a follow up, then you resume shielding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qob6seiY6tE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdebusHAAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFMbw9dowUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gMforHxRVU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpnsGME3rvw
me vs. TANK's falco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RU47PMf1nw
**** marth
falco's ok
K
In the marth matchup
I need more safe **** to do.
For the record, Ftilt is not safe. If you Ftilt his shield, he can fair you, when you get fair'd, it's tipper, and you'll go in the air, when you're in the air, well you know wtf happens when you're in the air.
I am still smashing on his shield a bit, from behind, because I feel that it's safe at least, as in, won't get punished. That's a conscious decision. In hindsight it would have been nice to get that grab, but if he jumps, just presses that x/y button, I'll get uptilted, fair'd, dair'd, something, anything which all puts me in the air, which leads to more you know what.
so yea
Basically this matchup sucks big fat hairy aids (no offense AIDS) infested monkey balls
But, it's totally winnable, let's discuss how;
I am looking for critiques here, because I use to **** this kid up and down, and now I'm winning about 35% of the time, and he's winning about 65% of the time (coincidence? no, ****ing gay *** matchup).
Theory craft here, anything you want to say say it, I'm gonna review these vids myself and try to find some **** I can do better a little later.
But ****...marth punishes SO hard, whereas we get like...a dtilt maybe, then a follow up, then you resume shielding.
zDuck
Smash Journeyman
why don't you just use uptilt for edgeguarding? you always drop a bomb and i think it actually saves him a couple times
Pi
Smash Hero
I'll try that , I spose it's habit to drop a bomb
the benefits from dropping bomb is that it provides a reliable spacing to edge guard
when he's just flat out recovering he can vary the distance from the stage he UB's
But if I drop a bomb, and that bomb hits him, he's going to have to recovery in the same path as the last time I dropped the bomb there, you kinda get it?
Also if he hits the bomb at the tip of his UB, and I Utilt him after, it's very difficult to tech, if possible at all, and guarantee's a Utilt hit instead of getting hit by his UB
I just realized I think that I lightshield edgehog from the right only, and on the left side I always try to edgeguard...
hm...
1 thing that I'm sure of though, to win the marth matchup reliably you need to get gimps.
that is certainly something I need to work on though, edgeguarding...
I need those kills...****
k
watched the #2 w/ a notepad open
this is what i got
match 3
i'm juss doing this for my reference guys, sorry if it's spammy lol
abcool
Smash Ace
Hugs gave some really nice tips for this matchup, but its all about mindgames. M2k taught him that samus and marth have two options in this fight. Marth has (shield and attack) and Samus has (Dash Attack and Grab) So he said utitlizing this and making the right decision changes this match around. Its on the matchup charts thread. He said its way more complicated, but he beat mango,g$ m2k and falcomist marth in friendlies since tp5 and never lost one match. He said he never played in tourney with them to find out if it works that well. So if u need help find hugs!!!
Geist
Smash Master
IB really helped me with this matchup, I'll throw some stuff out that I've learned.
plus what Abcool said is very true.
Pi
Smash Hero
tru tru
yea, i knew dash attack was ****ing important in this matchup for sure
but grab....sigh
**** you samus, have a better grab
i'll try utilting more, and stop bombing so much, or just drop down nair, or something, you can bet your *** i'm gonna go for gimps now,
and yea i know, smashing on shields was never something i recommended, but **** me if i wasn't out of options lol
i have had my DA's caught by a pre-emptive fair, or just a random fair though, it's ****ing demoralizing.
oh **** i juss had an epiphany
usually if i ever try to go out and nair him, he just has his jump and goes low like a *****
sec i'll link exactly what he does cause it's in a match...
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdebusHAAk#t=3m02s
he just goes below me
so i juss thought
what if i go out there, and if he goes below me, i'll juss drop a bomb (and have my second jump)
orrrrr i juss though
if he goes below me, under my nair (which i'll throw out really early), i'll just DJ back toward the stage, and nair again, cause he'll have to come back up
yea, i knew dash attack was ****ing important in this matchup for sure
but grab....sigh
**** you samus, have a better grab
i'll try utilting more, and stop bombing so much, or just drop down nair, or something, you can bet your *** i'm gonna go for gimps now,
and yea i know, smashing on shields was never something i recommended, but **** me if i wasn't out of options lol
i have had my DA's caught by a pre-emptive fair, or just a random fair though, it's ****ing demoralizing.
oh **** i juss had an epiphany
usually if i ever try to go out and nair him, he just has his jump and goes low like a *****
sec i'll link exactly what he does cause it's in a match...
here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VdebusHAAk#t=3m02s
he just goes below me
so i juss thought
what if i go out there, and if he goes below me, i'll juss drop a bomb (and have my second jump)
orrrrr i juss though
if he goes below me, under my nair (which i'll throw out really early), i'll just DJ back toward the stage, and nair again, cause he'll have to come back up
Geist
Smash Master
lmao or you could not go so far out and ff the nair. I usually see HugS reverse wd off the stage into a Nair, and that works really well.
Try not to overcomplicate things with Marth lol
Try not to overcomplicate things with Marth lol
Pi
Smash Hero
yea yea
i'll try the waveland thing too, it was suggested to me but i'm so use to bombing, and it works out some of the time, guess i was focusing on other things
Violence
Smash Lord
I think the only reason that attack failed, is that you didn't cover the vital angle that Marth needs to get back.
Marth only avoided you because you left a path to the edge open. This, I believe is a product of you hopping to nair him. Whenever I watch vids, I never see Samus hop to edgeguard a marth/sheik.
If you picture an imaginary Marth up Bing to the edge ideally to the sweet spot, you just need to aim for that line in order to force a hit in that scenario.
Also, if you don't have enough time to dash dance ->wavedash off the edge to nair, you can still just run off and nair. It's a simple edgeguard, but I've found it works really well. You can go ridiculously low on most stages.
Marth only avoided you because you left a path to the edge open. This, I believe is a product of you hopping to nair him. Whenever I watch vids, I never see Samus hop to edgeguard a marth/sheik.
If you picture an imaginary Marth up Bing to the edge ideally to the sweet spot, you just need to aim for that line in order to force a hit in that scenario.
Also, if you don't have enough time to dash dance ->wavedash off the edge to nair, you can still just run off and nair. It's a simple edgeguard, but I've found it works really well. You can go ridiculously low on most stages.
Pi
Smash Hero
i feel ya, i've actually had success just running off and nairing if he comes in too high, but usually he goes very low with his second jump in hand, and then UB's, which is countered by drop down nair i suppose
also
i tried to edgeguard m2k with just uptilt (no bomb), it's very hard to space that thing...
if you space it perfectly to not get hit by the UB when they hug the wall, they can avoid it by not hugging the wall
and if you commit to hitting them when they don't hug the wall, obviously you're gonna get hit
i need to lightshield edgeguard more...
it's by far the most reliable
YOU HAVE TO GET INTO habit for that light shield edge guard because samus can't remember last second like the rest of the cast and get it off ... because her roll sucks balls ... u have to do it FAST! LOL
but yea i need to do the same ... i wasn't playing too hot vs m2k last time we played and i usually **** his marf wit sami
Geist
Smash Master
I dash and stop right before the edge, so my dash is cancelled, then I just turn around. That's probably the fastest way.
I always hesitate to punish if they UpB past you though, Dair seems too slow, and nair has no follow ups :[
I always hesitate to punish if they UpB past you though, Dair seems too slow, and nair has no follow ups :[
Pi
Smash Hero
missiles for what, they are below the stage
and Utilt is unreliable
just run toward the edge and roll
you don't have to turn around, your forward roll always turns you around
Violence
Smash Lord
I was wondering, if you don't have the time to set up light shield edgeguard, if you can instead set up a forward facing light shield, and when it's hit by the Up B, you fast fall nair them away from the edge instead of grabbing it yourself.
Since I'm pretty sure super wavedash stops you before you can fall off of a grabable ledge, can't you just dash into wavedash until you're at the very edge, and then hold light shield? That sounds much faster and more reliable than taking the time to roll as Samus.
Since I'm pretty sure super wavedash stops you before you can fall off of a grabable ledge, can't you just dash into wavedash until you're at the very edge, and then hold light shield? That sounds much faster and more reliable than taking the time to roll as Samus.
Geist
Smash Master
It's honestly just as effective to grab the ledge and refresh invincibility, and roll up the ledge when you hear "TWAH".
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
or you can do my grapple thing that no one seems to care about lol
also
i reckon the nair thing would be risky in general
also
i reckon the nair thing would be risky in general
duals
Smash Journeyman
Ive seen darrell against falcomist and he naired off the ledge onto the stage and wavedashed back to ledge and rolled onto the stage...
i thought that was pretty effective
i thought that was pretty effective
Geist
Smash Master
Wait, what grapple thing?
Are you talking about sweetspotting the grapple and just letting it hang there until he comes close, then snatch the edge?
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
i'm not sure what you mean
if you mean the thing where you airdodge next to the ledge and stay in your airdodge til the last possible second, then sweetspot grapple, then yes
i have done it on at least 2 marths succesfully
it's tricky though
and i'm not even sure if it works if they sweetspot, but i think the two i did it too were sweetspotting
i could be wrong though
if you mean the thing where you airdodge next to the ledge and stay in your airdodge til the last possible second, then sweetspot grapple, then yes
i have done it on at least 2 marths succesfully
it's tricky though
and i'm not even sure if it works if they sweetspot, but i think the two i did it too were sweetspotting
i could be wrong though
Violence
Smash Lord
After some testing, I'm pretty sure walk off nair only works for certain trajectories.
I'm going to try grab ledge, then drop off nair when Marth gets under me. I'm pretty sure he'll die no matter what, and I think Marth Up Bing vertically into someone hits them upwards. I'd still have doublejump grapple up B, so I think I'd be fine.
I'm going to try grab ledge, then drop off nair when Marth gets under me. I'm pretty sure he'll die no matter what, and I think Marth Up Bing vertically into someone hits them upwards. I'd still have doublejump grapple up B, so I think I'd be fine.
Geist
Smash Master
That's close to what I was thinking.
I usually do something similar to characters with horizontal recoveries. I grapple the edge but don't pull myself up. I hang there until they get close to the edge, then I pull myself up. Don't think it would be too safe against Marth though.
A Pimp Named Slickback
Smash Lord
yeah if you do that against marth you're at risk to get hit by his up-B and probably gimped/stage spiked lol
Pi
Smash Hero
abcool
Smash Ace
Hey. I know this is more for like single matches and so on, but i need tips for doubles and i wanna know if i am playing samus the way she suppose to operate in teams. I also wanna know how u handle double peach..seems to screw me over alot!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-Y52ydWJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T1xr7l6IJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-Y52ydWJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T1xr7l6IJ0
Geist
Smash Master
Play doubles Peach like you'd play singles peach, but with more charge beam, because it's doubles.
I'll critique them tomorrow morning when I'm not about to pass out.
I'll critique them tomorrow morning when I'm not about to pass out.
Geist
Smash Master
EDIT: Ooops, totally didn't mean to double post >_>
Kso, before I get into the doubles part, just a few pointers:
- Missile cancel closer to the ground (kinda relevant to Stadium match, I think it was because of the platforms).
- Fastfall after aerials or after dropping from platforms.
- Work on recovery, as in sweetspot screw attack, recover lower, etc.
As for doubles, you're going to watch out for your teammate before you shoot missiles. You hit your poor Marth buddy more than you hit Peach. He'll have to watch for your missiles as well, but think of them as Samus's responsibility.
And finally, as for Peach, keep in mind CCing is totally fine, as long as you can call on when Peach wants to get that Dsmash. It's doubles, so naturally spacing/whatevs will be a bit off, so I won't bother with that. Generally tilts work safely as a poke against Peach.
I like keeping my distance of about a little smidgeon over 1 ftilt away, so if she tries any of her shinanigans to try to approach you, you can shut her up. Luckily she's slow on the ground and the air, and even though she has stupid priority, she has no range. Pretty much, play safe, and play gay.
Also, I LOLed when that Peach's shield broke and no one noticed xD
Kso, before I get into the doubles part, just a few pointers:
- Missile cancel closer to the ground (kinda relevant to Stadium match, I think it was because of the platforms).
- Fastfall after aerials or after dropping from platforms.
- Work on recovery, as in sweetspot screw attack, recover lower, etc.
As for doubles, you're going to watch out for your teammate before you shoot missiles. You hit your poor Marth buddy more than you hit Peach. He'll have to watch for your missiles as well, but think of them as Samus's responsibility.
And finally, as for Peach, keep in mind CCing is totally fine, as long as you can call on when Peach wants to get that Dsmash. It's doubles, so naturally spacing/whatevs will be a bit off, so I won't bother with that. Generally tilts work safely as a poke against Peach.
I like keeping my distance of about a little smidgeon over 1 ftilt away, so if she tries any of her shinanigans to try to approach you, you can shut her up. Luckily she's slow on the ground and the air, and even though she has stupid priority, she has no range. Pretty much, play safe, and play gay.
Also, I LOLed when that Peach's shield broke and no one noticed xD
duals
Smash Journeyman
yeah. If my mate is in front of me, i tend to not fire projectiles.
abcool
Smash Ace
Let me explain. This was winner's finals and we played again in loser's. My partner had no exp vs peach so usually they would kill him and force him to borrow and come for me. So i took control and didn't have any regard for his life really lol. watch the vid over and see how many he actually killed. I wanted to know if it is safe to be aggresive when you have a partner that is getting *****. Random missiles was to hit him out of the **** really lol. If i have more competent partners i tend to hang in the back and do chip damage.
Edit: I did notice her shield break, but i had to hold off the peach i was dealing with first because she like to play leader of the pack and attack whoever go after her partner, so when i got a chance i MC to fsmash....
Edit: I did notice her shield break, but i had to hold off the peach i was dealing with first because she like to play leader of the pack and attack whoever go after her partner, so when i got a chance i MC to fsmash....
Geist
Smash Master
I got a few friendlies recorded with a friend the other day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3bMjOvbEFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyGGOizGpJ0
@Abcool, JPOBS was at the smashfest I was at yesterday, we had a few matches, and he was telling me about you. He's a pretty cool guy lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3bMjOvbEFE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyGGOizGpJ0
@Abcool, JPOBS was at the smashfest I was at yesterday, we had a few matches, and he was telling me about you. He's a pretty cool guy lol
abcool
Smash Ace
Oh yea lol. jpobs. He doesn't know the matchup too well. How did the matches go? That is how most ppl are in the bahamas.
zDuck
Smash Journeyman
Winner's Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7v-yHWKgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR7b8fJ-__A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxd91AVOX_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=479HW2tfojk
Grand Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l9nlYgsf0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMg9tSjLdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ygEjAwxYI
I'm getting closer to beating this puff, critique + advice would be appreciated. If you don't feel like watching samus vs. puff i understand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7v-yHWKgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR7b8fJ-__A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxd91AVOX_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=479HW2tfojk
Grand Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l9nlYgsf0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMg9tSjLdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ygEjAwxYI
I'm getting closer to beating this puff, critique + advice would be appreciated. If you don't feel like watching samus vs. puff i understand
Geist
Smash Master
Pretty much dead even. Every match came down to last hit lol.
I was so happy vs his Falco, I was like, 'no lasers, I actually get to play my character :'D'
I wanted to get matches recorded with him but I didn't get the chance.
Oh dear lord, they're ALL vs Puff.Winner's Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7v-yHWKgw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR7b8fJ-__A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxd91AVOX_k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=479HW2tfojk
Grand Finals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5l9nlYgsf0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHMg9tSjLdk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ygEjAwxYI
I'm getting closer to beating this puff, critique + advice would be appreciated. If you don't feel like watching samus vs. puff i understand
I might do 1 or 2 later. For now, Utilt.
abcool
Smash Ace
Well because of the other campy falco i showed you and you being even with him, he is going to spam lasers when he gets back. JPOBS likes to do crap in friendlies, but in tournament he becomes a different person lol.
I would also like to thank blowtoes and kniht for helping me become a better samus player. I played against that campy falco and i won most of the matches after you guys told me to ftilt when he spams lasers close up. I take alot of damage, but because i can edgeguard so well, it makes up for it. Now he runs for ganon and **** do i hate that matchup. He loves to DJ fair and bair. So now i need advice on ganon lmao. Not to much, because it pretty even, but he always gets that last hit.
I would also like to thank blowtoes and kniht for helping me become a better samus player. I played against that campy falco and i won most of the matches after you guys told me to ftilt when he spams lasers close up. I take alot of damage, but because i can edgeguard so well, it makes up for it. Now he runs for ganon and **** do i hate that matchup. He loves to DJ fair and bair. So now i need advice on ganon lmao. Not to much, because it pretty even, but he always gets that last hit.
Geist
Smash Master
Picking these two matches at random.
omg loooooooooooooool shield break.
You have a really nice Samus zDuck.
I abhore, and I mean, absolutely DESPISE grabbing in this matchup. You can get punished so easily, and the risk reward factor is too high imo. Dthrow can combo into charge beam however, and the Jiggs you were playing shielded a lot. I dunno :/ I still wouldn't recommend it lol
In the first match you had good useage of charge beam. I remember reading that Samus has a frame advantage if Jiggs shields a full charge beam, but I can't remember for sure.
I'm surprised more people don't take more advantage of UpB in this matchup. Screw attack will send a Jiggs up high enough that it makes it impossible for her to punish. In general it should punish poor spacing on Jiggs' part.
Alot of Samus's moves can be rested OoS. I don't have a list or anything, but I'm almost positive Fsmash can be. Dash attack isn't a good idea, and I think I remember hearing Dtilt and Dsmash are unsafe with poor spacing. Just a tip.
For the most part, play it safe and keep grounded and poke.
:3 No problem
Ganon is a bad matchup, not going to lie. The trick is to be able to get inside and outside his range quickly, and punish his laggy moves as hard as you can.
Not to toot my own horn, but the first video I linked in my above post shows how I personally handle Ganons that like their double jumps.
As soon as he gets off the edge the stock should be over. Utilt beats Ganon's crappy sweetspot everytime, and from that point all you have to do is call him if he recovers high with a Nair.