Match-Up Discussion: Falco

Meru. · Sep 21, 2010

Sorry for being so late with the new discussion :l.

Falco

This Falco is quite beautiful actually... Unlike SSBB Falco

C.S. Dinah · Sep 21, 2010

Oh god Falco <.<

Nothing to say other than this match-up is pretty frustrating.

Peachkid · Sep 21, 2010

Hiroi actually gave me some pointers about this match up that I didn't know and it probably will help out.

Dash attack is amazing against him btw.

I would post more but I have to go to classes soon (In about 20 minutes) so i cant really stick around. for too much longer

Two-Ell · Sep 21, 2010

I've played this MU more than I've ever liked to in this game. lul I know a lot of little things, but I'll see what you guys have to say about it in general. Powersheild and SDI skill is a must.

#HBC | ZoZo · Sep 21, 2010

If the Peach is high it is a pretty funny mu, right Yaaay?

Xyless · Sep 21, 2010

Stay on the ground as much as possible. Floating is pretty much useless unless at close range due to the constant pew pew.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Sep 21, 2010

Glad this is up, this is one of our most controversial match ups

I want to repeat what Peachkid said - Dash Attack is good. Really, really good. It allows you to really mess with a Falco who enjoys SH'ing double lasers. Paticularly the 2nd hit which has loltastic disjoint. It pops him up in the air which either gives you time to pull up a Turnip or prepare to attempt to punish his landing

If you ever get a SH Dair on him, try to Uair string him, it'll rack some damage up on him nicely

Edgeguarding Falco is something you need to crack down. If Falco can't reach the ledge via jumping, he'll most likely be using Side B to grab the ledge or get back onstage. His Side B spikes so I advise you don't take the risk by Floating offstage just incase you mistime your Nair or you end up trading hits and you get spiked anyway. Instead, Floating close to the ledge but remain onstage. If you see him go for the ledge, edge hog him. If he goes for the stage, Uair, Nair or Up Smash him if you can. Its all a game of reactions. Use Turnips to get him into an awkward position and proceed to edgeguard from there

HOWEVER, Falco may use Up + B as a mix up. This thing has horrible range but it stalls out much more than Side B and its difficult to get out of if you get caught in it and knocks you back if you take the final hit. So basically, be prepared for Falco to use this because he might use it to stall out ledge invincibilty for example

Lasers are bad. Very bad and also very annoying. Not only do they stun you with leaves you open for a follow up, they hinder your approach AND when you get hit by them, you end up facing Falco. This means that if you want to use an aerial asap you can't use your Bair - you either have Nair which has poor range or Fair which has slow start up time. I'm not sure if Dairs start up time is slow enough to avoid a follow up, I'd have to check

There's more stuff but I can't think of stuff right now. You have to play smart to win. I definitly think we have some sort of disadvantage here

Two-Ell · Sep 21, 2010

Well this is what I have to help. Please correct me if necessary and I apologize if anything I say isn't that useful.

Being at long range and/or in the air like Rick says is definately a bad position. Make sure to learn the laser pattern of the falco. They all have one. You can duck SHDLs due to the timing they need to keep it fluid. Like I said earlier you need to learn how to PS the lasers. It's it very easy to learn and most of the time you can at least get within midrange by just walking forward. You can buffer a turnip pull after the shield drop with enough time to raise a shield for the next oncoming laser. Now the trick is learning to always stay within midrange. In an area where a phantasm will not immediately occur to them because your location may still let them feel comfortable with lasers.
It's going to be up to your discretion what action to take once you're in mid/close range. Jab(if for some strange reason you find yourself that close), GlideToss, SH turnip throw, Ftilt, Dash>Shield Grab, Dash Attack, or you can instant dash attack after a small approach while power shielding the lasers. Timing is really important and you need to make a decision quickly so keep one of those options in mind as you are approaching. One of those options will always be present with whatever action the Falco takes. Their actions for when you are grounded at mid/close range will most likely either be jab, ftilt, reflector, lasers, or phantasm. Platforms will involve Nair and Bair.
You need to give them as much hell during their recovery as possible. Ground Floated Nairs and Bairs can cover their phantasms but they perform it a little higher than stage height you will get struck(spike hitbox) despite your aerial. Cover the edge with the traditional turnip walls and remind them of your ground floated aerial threat to add stress to their decision on recovery. Make sure to catch them during the Firebird charge else they'll reach the ledge(assumed they can) with not much difficulty after launch. You can runoff a nair to knock them out of charge or hit them with some of Dair(not all of it) just to knock them out of charge and drop them far enough out of range of the ledge.
Being able to reach the ledge against Falco is not too difficult. If you're not recovering high make sure to hold on to your float to sink just low enough to be at ledge level to avoid lasers. You'll give yourself time to think of how you will be able to complete the recovery phase(being on stage). SideB will be spiked if you get to comfortable with it. UpB can also be spiked if they time it correctly.Ledge options I don't have much to say, it's going to be up to you. Rolling on stage generally yields bad results against Falco though.
Excercise a lot of caution being in close range on a fresh stock. Falco has plenty of grab strings. If you are grabbed always try to tap out. Also DI up and away as each grab completes, hope they botch it. Now when you feel the spike coming prepare to SDI up and behind Falco. If you perform it well you will see Peach shoot above Falco for an instant as during the stun phase of the hitbox processing and she may land just behind Falco. React quick here as he only needs to move a bit more further to grab you again. Learning to SDI the spike is important in avoiding death if he performs this at the ledge. So practice up. While we do have a CG for Falco for his fresh stocks make sure to watch how they DI the throws and keep tight on the execution to avoid Bairs to the face.
Now for killing Flacos looove Usmashing Peach at upper percents. Watch for that and punish when you feel you can execute it without risk to yourself. If you get grab at a high percent and the Falco Dthrows DI UP! high level Falco can and will easily follow the dthrow with a BDACUS. It slides far and fast. If you can SDI it down as much as you can. You can SDI downwards when you are in the air as you are from the Dthrow. Check Meno's thread for gauranteed follow up punishments to moves Falco may pull out to kill you.

Moozle · Sep 21, 2010

This used to be my least favorite matchup, but since I've become a more grounded Peach, it has become loads better. The best move to use in this match up, by far, is Ftilt. It has amazing range, and is great at popping Falco up so he isn't able to continue his pew pew.

This may not be the best thing to do against a really good Falco, but one thing that I like to do is occasionally float a full hop. The reason I do this is because consistently power shielding and warding off Falco's attacks on the shield, all the while trying to inch forwards to get in a Ftilt or Dtilt, is very mentally exhausting. Floating high above Falco leaves you in a relatively safe position, since Falco isn't the best at juggling, and gives a nice mental break (even if it is for only a few seconds). It's also good for observing how the player reacts to you when you are coming from above.

One of the most important thing in this matchup, from my experience, is edge guarding. Not necessarily gimping, but edge guarding. One Fair that sends Falco off stage can often lead to much more than the 15% than fair damages. Turnips are great for gimping, and ground floated Bairs are good for stopping illusions that go onto the stage. One interesting thing is that if you z drop a turnip instantly after jumping, it will stop Falco's illusion, which will lead to another hit since he is literally right next to you and you are in the air. I don't really know how to explain it, so if you all don't understand what I mean, i'll try to find a video.

Edit: Another thing to note is turnip usage. Most Falco players will immediately try to reflect them, so use that to your advantage and mindgame it up. Don't Glidetoss right into their face; short hop turnip throw or z-drop and regrab with fair or bair.

Eddie G · Sep 21, 2010

You know...I used to agree with the "remain on the ground" philosophy until I got constantly reminded by Shugo of how stupid this matchup is for us in any one position, partly because he is absolutely incredible at conditioning for grabs.

So as a result, and although I have yet to actually get any farther against him than his last stock, I've found the most effective way to play this matchup is to dance around the lasers in the air with both Peach's double jump and her fast fall airdodge. Then, as an alternative, remain on the ground and simply powershield his second laser if he is anywhere but close range to you. Dash attack has its uses, but again...Shugo being on another level has taught me that it can be severely conditioned for grabs/reflectors/airdodges to kills.

And now with the inclusion of his B-dacus from a midrange double laser hit...it adds all sorts of survival stress even though he's not in her face.

I just...can't begin to describe how much I loathe playing against this matchup. It's my only remaining serious roadblock as a player. I've remedied it a bit by counterpicking Sheik/YI against Falco, but as far as our character goes against the matchup...I have yet to crack anything beyond simple common sense play against him and the maneuvers mentioned above. It's tough.

z00ted · Sep 21, 2010

I've never had a problem with this matchup.
(I've played Ozz a bit)

I'm going to have to agree with KB.
Staying on the ground isn't always the best idea.

I usually full hop float camp at lower percentages, throwing in dairs to make sure he cant approach from below me. Then later when I aquire percentage go in from the ground because I know he can't get too much percentage on me (even if he does have a good grab game).

This matchup can be soo repeptitive and there isn't really alot of room for mixups because you're constantly getting knocked out of your float by lasers. Shielding and proper turnip use is a must, it gives a small ray of hope for us when trying to approach him from the ground because he can flip a coin, continue lasering or try to reflect it back. Sometimes I jump right before he lasers or reflects throw the turnip -> footstool and try to dair string something together.

I use nair ALOT against Falco. It's quick and its a really good "in your face" move when you're trying to approach him. Forward dash and ftilts are a MUST - they are both really good and something I think alot of players overlook.

I always save my fair and bair for the kill. Bair when I need quick attack, fair for a read.

40:60 in my opinion.

Not EXTREMELY bad, but its probaby up there with Toon Link, you have to get used to having stuff flying at you at all times (which can take ALOT of practice).

wwwilliam0024 · Sep 21, 2010

Well the match up is pretty annoying at some points but its all getting used to the Falco.

I dont Find this match up all that frustrating, i actually would prefer to fight a falco anytime.

Here some tips:

- Falco cant really chaingrab peach, in any attempt of it, Fall with Nair, if the falco is predicting your Nairs to much, Float out of the grab and Dair combo.

- Glide tossing is NOT really effective if the opponent in on land, you know falcos drill, SH double laser to Side B.. Use ur turnips for Spacing and for gimping, but never try to approach falco with a glide toss...
Side B, Grab, and Reflector punishment is going to come. In cases of approaching falcos, use your Running A, its actually very good against him and your spaced Fairs.

- Falcos Side B is an annoying *******.... allot of people have problems with this one. I personally think that predicting his Side Bs is very easy, cause they normally do it when they are cornered or under pressure. I ALWAYS punish this ******* with float Nairs, its actually very useful.

Lets say your falco is Double lazer spamming.... Float and be on the look out, if any of the lasers hit, just re float, only the bottom laser will hit you and you can toad counter it anytime.

ALSO, when your falco is OUT of the stage, I highly recommend you to FLOAT next to the edge, if he tries to recover with his Side B, he will definitely get punished, forcing him to try to reach high grounds making him land on spots you are already aware of, This is KEY to falcos defeat.

Also if he ever tries to Side B back to the stage, a good ol SIDE B from ur part will kill him immediately.
But its pretty tricky since you must be sure he will use the Side B.

Thats pretty much all i have atm, its all based on my veteran experience. Ask anything if you wish

lloDownedu74 · Sep 22, 2010

O gawd... Falco... Out of my 3 worst MUs (MK, Falco, and Snake), I know the Falco MU the least...

Honestly, 90% of my experience is from playing against wifi falcos, which doesn't give me that much credibility in this matchup. Plus, I honestly have no clue what to do, so I just made up a style that fits me. I've been criticized by this style, but I've beaten a ton of Falcos on wifi with it (including Antis falco)

This works best at places like BF, the ship part of RC, SV, etc with a generally flat surface but a high platform. Get on the platform, double jump, hold the float, dair 3 times, get back on platform, repeat. It sounds really stupid, but there isn't much Falco can do. Sure, he can get on the platform and try to out-aerial you with like uair, bair, or nair, but I'm sure either Peach's dair will go through it, or you can maneuver around it and get in a bair. Falco can also try to laser you at that height, where you can just drop down really quickly, and try to punish his landing with whatever you want. I just kinda repeat this until Falco has high percent, then go for bairs/nairs/fairs for the final damage/kill. It's simple, but it kinda works.

My best neutral is probably BF and SV for the high platform. Then YI and PS1 because I like those stages in general, even though they're kinda bad for the matchup. And FD is my worst neutral (obviously) against Falco. I usually ban FD and get CP'd to Japes, which can work, but if Falco gets the lead, then this becomes 10x harder. And I CP Falcos to either Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise depending on what they ban, how campy they are, and how badly I wanna time them out lol

FC Nair works wonders against Falco. Just watch out for laser->anything (smashes, grabs, whatever). Turnips are never bad, but with lasers coming your way all the time, they're hard to pull out constantly. Plus Falco's reflector can be a pain.

Overall, I think it's 40:60. Falco definitely beats Peach unless someone develops some super combo or something, but I use my not-afraid-to-time-you-out style and just kinda wait Falco out =/ And no, I've never timed a Falco out, but I've gotten close

LanceStern · Sep 22, 2010

To be honest, I love the Falco Peach matchup, it's my favorite.

It's very frustrating, especially since most falcos just shoot lasers until you get close and then either use jabs, grabs or another attack to knock you away. Plus he can always phantasm out of sight. A lot of his moves have high priority, which is something I don't think we as Peach are accustomed to. A lot of the times he trades blows with our DAIR, and that's saying something fierce.

He outranges us, moves faster, has better grab range, has a quicker, more annoyng projectile, and has more solid kill setups than us.

But it's still a favorite.

The problem for Falco is he ALSO has a little bit of trouble killing, and he has to get close to Peach to really put her out. if Peach can land ONE solid hit (dair/nair/ftilt/jab/dsmash) or grab that puts Falco in the air, there is no reason we shouldn't rack a 40%+ or get some sort of string on him. If you can avoid his upsmash (DANGER) and bair, the h shouldn't be KOing you until you've gotten him to KO% as well. And vice versa.

What to do for lasers
1. Dash Attack is amazing - This has already been said but it's true. The second hit is disjointed. You walkin close enough to take those shots and then do an instant dash attack and you're in. He will jump and try and phantasm away, and you have to be ready for that

2. Royal Guard - Not very much known, but it's a technique used to move in with a shield. It's silly hopping with the shield, check it out on youtube.

3. Jumping and weaving in, then throw a turnip.

4. Toad

All those are pretty useful, and pretty much in order of usefulness.

C.S. Dinah · Sep 22, 2010

I get so tired of Falcos gaysers that I just spotdodge them until he does something else.

At least he cant kill very well.

Razmakazi · Sep 22, 2010

6:4 falco.

jab's gay, grab's gay, laser's gay, side b's gay, roll and spotdodge are gay, and his aerials are pretty good.

such a pain.

hard to rly bait coz he has lasers and side b to just run away all the time so the mu just requires a lotta patience for the same ol' ****. dash atk is good and can go under the 2nd laser of double laser but it's also risky b/c if they space better then the dash atk will be baited into their shield and then u'd get ***** but then again u can mix it up w/ a powershield instead to grab him.

bein' in the air can be pretty good too. lasers can tag you out of your float but a trick is to just buffer fh outta a shielded grounded laser. even if you get tagged out of the fh you still have your DJ and your float so u can still go into float immediately or jump or aerial or sumtin.

jab is also quite a pain to deal w/ when we shield it or when it hits us. the best thing i can think of is to just di back outta it and beat it with ftilt/fsmash if you don't have enough time to beat it from above.

reflector is dumb too but turnips can still be useful. if they try to reflect anything you do and you happen to shield it then you can react w/ forward glide tossing the turnip away from falco to whatever the hell you wanna hit falco with or if you powershield the reflector then ground float whatever oos works just fine.

a couple dumb things we can do is punish a powershielded reflector w/ bomber. i haven't done it myself but it's something praxis mentioned a long time ago.

and there's my old usmash stuff w/ being able to usmash falco if u shield regardless of a powershield or not.

and then there's sky's old preaching of reverse toad the phantom as falco tries to recover onstage. u can use other aerials too but reverse toad the phantom looks sexier.

oh yeah, and to stop his recovery tossing a turnip upwards/at him + floating by the edge works pretty well. you either go for the edge or ya aerial him outta his side b. sometimes ya gotta be patient though coz u risk getting spiked by phantom. also, if ya manage to land a peach bomber on him outta his phantom then that's his stock for sure if you get to the ledge first.

and i think this matchup would be so much less of a pain if we all got viciously good at powershielding everything. failing to powershield lasers makes the mu so much harder coz he can poke soooo easily w/everything else. if our shield doesn't get eaten by lasers though then it's all gravy. ;o

Nicole · Sep 23, 2010

what lance stern says about royal guard shielding being helpful is true. you don't need to do it by any means, but it can definitely make getting over to falco easier. unfortunately, getting over to him isnt the problem, really, because he can just be a **** and phantasm away once you get close to him. if you get too close, his phantasm will be invincible and even if you predict it and nair, it won't hurt him.

you dont want to stay entirely on the ground in this MU. you want to get close enough to him that he doesnt think he needs to phantasm away yet, but that he cant grab or jab you. SH dair works pretty well, always land behind him even though it doesn't REALLY matter that much. he can nair OOS so treat him like olimar or something and dont stay on his shield - just read his roll (which is alot better than olimar's) or punish him for doing something OOS that doesn't actually hit you. fullhop dair isn't a terrible mixup.

peach can nair out of alot of things that he does. always mash A if he starts comboing you in the air. falco can rack up some sick damage on you if you aren't careful so be sure to get out of combos whenever you can. dont let your shield get too low if you're near kill %, his bair shieldpokes and can kill you at higher percents.

you can bait his reflector shield with turnips. he can hit you with reflector randomly in the air, but it's more of a defense mechanism than anything you need to worry too much about, kind of like samus's zair, but without any followups. it's just kind of an annoyance, and makes it harder to get at him. you dont need or want to waste your time pulling up too many turnips though.

get good at usmashing falco after he hits your shield with usmash. with the addition of bdacus into falco's game, falco is going to be more usmash happy when you are at kill %. so be careful. i would stay out of the air at a certain range - pretend falco is fox and he can run over and usmash you. that's the general quickness and range of falco's bdacus. dont be in the air long and dont just throw out aerials.

dont be scared to use toad in this matchup, he's kind of helpful. you KNOW falco is gonna shoot lasers, and you can hit falco from fairly far away with toad. anytime you can hit falco out of his camping and fluster him, you really have to. falco is far from helpless in the air but at least he can't do as much harm there as he can on the ground.

if falco is coming down to the ground with his dair alot you can run a little bit past where he's coming down, and groundfloat a bair and hit him, or just be under him and utilt. try to juggle him - you can, you just have to do it a little differently than normal because our uair is hard to hit thruogh his dair.

obviously gimp him if you can. dash attack helps you approach. jab is great, as is her grab and pivot grab to punish his ******** good spotdodge. when you are at kill %, you can really take some opportunities to punish him, because falco has no real kill setups and has alot of trouble killing. if he starts getting impatient, you can hurt him. of course, that goes for peach too - if peach is impatient against falco she will pay.

Praxis · Sep 23, 2010

Powershield? You can punish Falco's reflector on shield with Peach bomber OOS without a powershield. It's guaranteed if you release your shield while the reflector is still moving out.

Queen B. Kyon · Sep 24, 2010

KBizzle said:
You know...I used to agree with the "remain on the ground" philosophy until I got constantly reminded by Shugo of how stupid this matchup is for us in any one position, partly because he is absolutely incredible at conditioning for grabs.

So as a result, and although I have yet to actually get any farther against him than his last stock, I've found the most effective way to play this matchup is to dance around the lasers in the air with both Peach's double jump and her fast fall airdodge. Then, as an alternative, remain on the ground and simply powershield his second laser if he is anywhere but close range to you. Dash attack has its uses, but again...Shugo being on another level has taught me that it can be severely conditioned for grabs/reflectors/airdodges to kills.

And now with the inclusion of his B-dacus from a midrange double laser hit...it adds all sorts of survival stress even though he's not in her face.

I just...can't begin to describe how much I loathe playing against this matchup. It's my only remaining serious roadblock as a player. I've remedied it a bit by counterpicking Sheik/YI against Falco, but as far as our character goes against the matchup...I have yet to crack anything beyond simple common sense play against him and the maneuvers mentioned above. It's tough.

Razmakazi said:
6:4 falco.

jab's gay, grab's gay, laser's gay, side b's gay, roll and spotdodge are gay, and his aerials are pretty good.

such a pain.

hard to rly bait coz he has lasers and side b to just run away all the time so the mu just requires a lotta patience for the same ol' ****. dash atk is good and can go under the 2nd laser of double laser but it's also risky b/c if they space better then the dash atk will be baited into their shield and then u'd get ***** but then again u can mix it up w/ a powershield instead to grab him.

bein' in the air can be pretty good too. lasers can tag you out of your float but a trick is to just buffer fh outta a shielded grounded laser. even if you get tagged out of the fh you still have your DJ and your float so u can still go into float immediately or jump or aerial or sumtin.

jab is also quite a pain to deal w/ when we shield it or when it hits us. the best thing i can think of is to just di back outta it and beat it with ftilt/fsmash if you don't have enough time to beat it from above.

reflector is dumb too but turnips can still be useful. if they try to reflect anything you do and you happen to shield it then you can react w/ forward glide tossing the turnip away from falco to whatever the hell you wanna hit falco with or if you powershield the reflector then ground float whatever oos works just fine.

a couple dumb things we can do is punish a powershielded reflector w/ bomber. i haven't done it myself but it's something praxis mentioned a long time ago.

and there's my old usmash stuff w/ being able to usmash falco if u shield regardless of a powershield or not.

and then there's sky's old preaching of reverse toad the phantom as falco tries to recover onstage. u can use other aerials too but reverse toad the phantom looks sexier.

oh yeah, and to stop his recovery tossing a turnip upwards/at him + floating by the edge works pretty well. you either go for the edge or ya aerial him outta his side b. sometimes ya gotta be patient though coz u risk getting spiked by phantom. also, if ya manage to land a peach bomber on him outta his phantom then that's his stock for sure if you get to the ledge first.

and i think this matchup would be so much less of a pain if we all got viciously good at powershielding everything. failing to powershield lasers makes the mu so much harder coz he can poke soooo easily w/everything else. if our shield doesn't get eaten by lasers though then it's all gravy. ;o

Both of these are basicly what i think in this mu.

All I can say really is that you should try to use side tilt alot in this match since it beats his side b and is iffy with his air game and if possible get as many uair's as possible. If used right Peach's nair and bair should always beat his fire recovery. I find this match very pokey so I actually try to jab in this match. Just try your best to predict what the falco will do next and this match is doable. If your at kill percent expect a lazer dacus. Its just dumb like stupid far away from you dumb and omg! if your in the air at high percent always remember that his jump is stupid high so you think he wont hit you he will.

DEHF · Sep 27, 2010

This match up is so irritating to play. Peach is too good at edge guarding Falco.

M@v · Sep 28, 2010

*cracks knuckles* Alright, wall of text inbound. Peach is, suprisingly enough, one of my most experienced mus.

Kyon and I used to play this matchup all the time when I was in Florida(Did we ever record any of them?), then I played hiroi several times, as well as some other peaches once I got back to PA.

First off, I feel the mu is 6:4 falco. I'll break this down by each character. I play some peach, so I should be able to help from the peach side.

Falco:

-camping advantage
-can edgeguard peach effectively
-better ground game(not much peach can do about jabs and ftilts(

Peach:

-nair
-Very good at edgeguarding Falco
-Can rack damage up quick if she uses her aerials right.
-did I mention nair?

Early game:

Falco will be opening by camping and/or trying to get a grab. Pretty standard

Peach should be opening by trying to close the distance and land some early aerial combos, or short range camp with turnips.

If falco grabs peach; he must buffer the grab, or peach escapes with her nair.

Peach also has a chaingrab on falco, although its not as long. The falco will most likely try to buffer a bair so you get hit with it as soon as the cg ends. Plan accordingly.

Edgeguarding- Falco:

Falco will try to keep you off stage with lasers to rack up damage, and depending which route you take, certain aerials.

High: Probably upair, but at the same time your making yourself more punishable when you land, especially if your using the parasol.

Middle: Bairs, or a dair

low: dair, spike, or ledgehog.

Peach:

Peach's best part of the matchup imo. Nair DESTROYS falco's phanstasm. Nair is by far your best edgeguarding option vs falco. Bair and turnip gimps could work too.

Killing:

Falco has many safe ways to kill. Ftilt at higher percents, bair is a very safe move especially if our back is facing peach, and upsmash is probably our best killer in this mu.

Do not dair falco at high percents unless you know you will connect; we can upsmash OoS your dair.

Peach killing:

Once again, nair. The Falco effs up, nair his ***. ESPECIALLY if they get greedy and try to cg you while they are in kill range.

Nair for OoS kills
Nair for cg interrupter kills
Nair for edguarding kills

I cannot stress enough how important peach's nair is to you in this MU.

Fair and bair are her next best killers, bair being harder to predict/powershield.

Stages:
You want to take falco to a place where he cant run away much; yet at the same time you reduce the areas he can recover to, making it easier to edgeguard him.

Sv comes to mind, and Castle siege seems to be decent as well.

The usual bad falco stages of brinstar(if they dont ban it), rainbow, and lylat come to mind as well.

I would post more, but im really tired, lol. Just ask me questions and I'll answer them.

HotWings · Sep 28, 2010

I hear there was a party here, i brought the hot wings!

But yeah.. i cant stand fighting peach, idk why but i just cant lol. Thats all i have to say about peach, ANNOYING!!

LanceStern · Sep 28, 2010

I agree with you a lot MAV, but the only thing is I've been nairing you for so long to break strings, break phantasms, break you OOS etc. that by time you are in KO percentage, nair is too stale.

I usually try to bair an unsafe option, or fair. Sometimes I opt to try and refresh my nair so that I can bust it out of shield

Deathfox30 · Sep 30, 2010

Razmakazi said:
6:4 falco.

jab's gay, grab's gay, laser's gay, side b's gay, roll and spotdodge are gay, and his aerials are pretty good.

You forgot quite a few gays. U smash/BDACUS are gay. Dair is gay, but it varies in gay-ness. It's usually only slightly gay, unlike the unrivaled gaysers.

pulse131 · Sep 30, 2010

really annoying MU here. i believe against falco peach has gotta either duck or hop and air dodge all lasers and slowly but surely make your way to him, safely as possible. i have a little bit of xp here, but not really enough tourny xp to contribute, but ill say what i know.
technically he can CG you at 0 3 times, but its really gotta be buffered perfectly, and as peach i have never been CG'd by falcos. they usually try the first couple times, realize they cant do it and just dair or something after the first grab. rememb er hes got a reflector, and a good one. so if you gotta a stitch, wait for guaranteed hit, or just use it to distract him or something, idk. basically, turnips are basically for gimping/covering options. throwing them up is okay though.
meh, like i said i dont really know much about this MU, dont really think theres that much to it other then...she gets outcamped, and *****. its just really hard to get inside. but when you can combo the crap out of him like a good peach. look out for his dozen different combo breaking moves though.

Queen B. Kyon · Sep 30, 2010

Im not too sure but I believe our uair beats falco's dair. Our goal is to simply predict, and powershield. I feel this mu is another game that you need to have will power to wait once your winning. I feel that falco has a kill problem just as much as Peach once you figure things out. I feel someday this mu can be even in the future. I was watching a match at my last tournament at high enough game play mk vs falco. Now I know it is mk but the way falco was shut down was just silly. Just powershield lazers. If close enough shield abit longer for the dacus and punish. He will be forced to grab and once you understand how he can grab you avoid that as well. Only way he could kill was to get the mk in the air but for mk he still isn't getting hit cause its mk. I just think Peach can do the same thing as mk except for the air part. Im sure im missing a lot of factors and stuff but it just takes very good reflexes

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Sep 30, 2010

Has anyone tried planking Falco?

If there isn't a LGL, what options does Falco have against Peach's ledge game to force her back onstage?

C.S. Dinah · Sep 30, 2010

Run off....

Back air.

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Sep 30, 2010

I agree with that. I do not think peach can plank very well. Her 2nd jump takes so long to regrab the ledge and she has no methods to hit people on the ledge very easily. Falco's run off Bair would hit peach if she is not careful or makes a mistake.

The only way to plank is with parasol. Falco cannot beat it out at all, and even if he gets the ledge, we fall so slowly it out lasts his invic. frames on ledge. But apart from that, we still cannot do much against falco once on the ledge.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Sep 30, 2010

If Falco runs off and Bairs, Uair will beat it out cause you'll have invincibilty frames left over and Up + B should beat falling Bairs. Can Falco Bair you out of your Up + B?

You can mix it up with your 2nd jump to stall him out if he grabs the ledge aswell

I'm not talking about getting back onstage I'm talking about getting on the ledge and staying there. Peach's ledge game is pretty good, if there's no LGL I don't see any reason to go back on the stage if she has the lead vs Falco

Elyssa Xey Hexen · Sep 30, 2010

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
If Falco runs off and Bairs, Uair will beat it out cause you'll have invincibilty frames left over and Up + B should beat falling Bairs. Can Falco Bair you out of your Up + B?

You can mix it up with your 2nd jump to stall him out if he grabs the ledge aswell

I'm not talking about getting back onstage I'm talking about getting on the ledge and staying there. Peach's ledge game is pretty good, if there's no LGL I don't see any reason to go back on the stage if she has the lead vs Falco

I thought there was no such thing as invicibility frames on grabbing the ledge after you let go. Once you let go, you become vulnerable again was the impression I have gotten from a couple locations. Even though it looks like you have invicibility frames.

Uair only does that if you see it coming. Once you start pulling back and 2nd jumping back to the stage, you get into a routine of doing it all the time and you might occasionally focus on that and not realize until it is too late that falco is about to run off back air you. So, you fall back just as he runs off stage and boom, you get hit. That is the sort of mistake I am talking about.

Anyway, parasol I feel is safer for planking. There is no way falco can merely run off stage and hit you with bair if you are fastfalling -> parasol -> repeating. Parasol hits him out of the move. If falco fastfalls by running offstage with an aerial, he will kill himself or make himself too vulnerable to recover back to the stage. He would have to not fast fall it and if I am correct, peach's fast fall is faster than falco's acceleration into falling without fastfall.

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Sep 30, 2010

Once you let go of the ledge you are invincible, thats why planking is so good. You definitly aren't vunerable, I'm not sure if thats the case if you don't let go of the ledge asap

Using Uair lets you smack people out of attacks and since you're invincible whilst doing it, there's no chance you'll trade hits. Plus, if there person is shielding, Uair will push them back away from the ledge. If Falco runs off and tries to Bair you as you Uair, he'll lose cause you're invincible

Grab the ledge to immediate Uair drop to Parasol. Its sort of like Marth Fairing the ledge and immediatly Up + B'ing back onto it

Has anyone tried this out vs Falco? Any frame experts willing to tell if this would work at all

LanceStern · Sep 30, 2010

Lets not be ledge stallers. Peach players are braver than that.

I think also that falco players can get the rhythm enough to falling bair or fair AFTER you uair. It might trade hits with you..

It especially would be dangerous if Falco is > 100%. Because they could wait for you to uair and grab the ledge. Then use roll to slowly climb up the ledge and gimp your attempt at parasolling back to the ledge

Eddie G · Sep 30, 2010

Why does no one mention her float in all of this ledge theory craft?

LanceStern · Sep 30, 2010

What do you mean? They are theory crafting about ledge camping. Once you've floated on it once, the float is gone. Unless you want to try and get back on the stage and get grabbed/jabbed/shot/tilted

-Cross- · Oct 1, 2010

Well one neat trick with floating near the ledge is you can float a little after running off the edge, so fall a little bit and then float. At a certain height, you can cover the edge sligthly but still have the option to float backwards and land on the stage. So from here you can either drop float and grab the edge or float backwards and nair so even if you trade you won't get spiked. What you do depends on your read.

Nicole · Oct 3, 2010

if i win, i dont want to win by planking.

Eddie G · Oct 3, 2010

Nicole said:
if i win, i dont want to win by planking.

Good luck against Falco then, Red. You already know how ******** the matchup is. Sometimes you have to go against your nature to beat the stupidest of odds, even if it means exploiting a tournament ruleset that has no LGL to beat a Falco or any character with a crappy anti-ledge game.

I dropped the whole honor thing when people started beating it out of me with their own ******** gimmicks back in mid 09 as Brawl developed further and further into it's wonderful, true metagame we all know today. It's not Melee anymore where I could just outplay/out-tech someone and beat them "fairly" to preserve any sense of honor at the end of the match. It has simply boiled down to win or lose, beat or be beaten, profit or expense.

z00ted · Oct 4, 2010

Thats not entirely true KB.

Eddie G · Oct 4, 2010

Illmatic. said:
Thats not entirely true KB.

KBizzle said:
Sometimes you have to go against your nature to beat the stupidest of odds, even if it means exploiting a tournament ruleset that has no LGL to beat a Falco or any character with a crappy anti-ledge game.

KBizzle said:
Sometimes you have to go against your nature to beat the stupidest of odds

KBizzle said:
Sometimes you have to go against your nature

KBizzle said:
Sometimes

Mhmm?

10char

Match-Up Discussion: Falco

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