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The Official Ike Video Critique Thread

ChaosMagician

Smash Cadet
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North Carolina
those are the only people i brawl anyway online when im recruiting ppl from facebook to brawl are the challanging ones like one dude is really good with zss and peach i have a time with his peach, another persons falco, and a marth mainer who i usually beat barely
 

~Firefly~

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Going all-in with the grime
Wow, that's a lot more than I was expecting. XD

0:54 - Definitely not the time for an Fsmash no matter how hard a read you thought you made. Fmash should only be used as an attempted KO move around 50 to 60%, and even then, a reverse sliding Usmash is much better for punishing Falco's Phantasm than Fsmash.
0:55 - Watch Falco while he's spamming lasers like that; if he goes for a double laser you can sneak under it with your DA, likely hitting him off-stage. If he goes for a single laser, either take the opportunity to jump over it or PS and advance.
Actually, that was a dash attack that came out as an Fsmash. >.< One of my favorite parts about that matchup is sneaking under SHDL with dash attacks, but my execution is still kinda sloppy.

In general, I'm noticing that a lot of my biggest problems are due to habits I've picked up with my main that carry over to my Ike. I developed the spotdodging habit because of Yoshi's bad shield, and his defensive options differ from Ike's a lot, which seems to amplify the habit quite a bit since I don't know how I'm supposed to respond to offensive pressure. Hopefully, I'll be able to fix this a bit by becoming more comfortable with Ike's jab.

I think I have a decent grasp of which moves are good to use in most situations, but I don't really know how to use them yet. I'm getting used to my options when jab cancelling, but I don't know when to use each one; I like the lack of landing lag of Nair and the range of Fair, but I'm not comfortable enough with either of those moves to use them to their full potential. I LOVE Ike's Bair, but I don't see a lot of opportunities to use it. I'll definitely try messing around with Nair in training mode like you suggested, and I'll force myself to use more jabs.

Thanks again for the tips. =]


:008:
 

ChaosMagician

Smash Cadet
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Messages
71
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North Carolina
well for ike its efficient to keep your distance so you dont punish yourself so thats why i use my dodge button to keep me neck in neck with my opponent but still able to attack w/o getting destroyed so i can sneak up from behind and go for my a button attak then once they are knocked good i reposition myself for another one n repeat till i can ko my opponent with ikes side b attack which works quite well as an edge guard to if used at the right time but this is a sloppy presentation of my style as in its not my whole style just a sloppy example

also what really helps you out is to use ikes side b attack to get far away or close up but not to close so you can regain yourself or go in for an attack its proven well for me

if you run into a good brawler dont do what i see many do is try and charge you instead use your dodge sheild and make your way their and also let your opponent come to you this way they dont know where you are going to appear for the hit all they can do is guess this will also allow your ike to stay alive longer to make a move to ko your opponent or an fsmash when executed right
 

metroid1117

Smash Master
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Chester, IL
I'm not trying to be mean, but please try to use proper grammar and spelling; it prevents people from mis-understanding what you want to say.

well for ike its efficient to keep your distance so you dont punish yourself so thats why i use my dodge button to keep me neck in neck with my opponent but still able to attack w/o getting destroyed so i can sneak up from behind and go for my a button attak then once they are knocked good i reposition myself for another one n repeat till i can ko my opponent with ikes side b attack which works quite well as an edge guard to if used at the right time but this is a sloppy presentation of my style as in its not my whole style just a sloppy example
Quick Draw (QD, side+B) isn't a good attack for killing, nor is it a good idea to to frequently roll; you'll be constantly read by your opponent and, subsequently, severely punished.

also what really helps you out is to use ikes side b attack to get far away or close up but not to close so you can regain yourself or go in for an attack its proven well for me
QD as a retreat might have it's merits, but it shouldn't be used constantly; if your opponent reads the QD, they can just run up to you and shield so that you suffer the horrendous lag of hitting someone and then punish you.

if you run into a good brawler dont do what i see many do is try and charge you instead use your dodge sheild and make your way their and also let your opponent come to you this way they dont know where you are going to appear for the hit all they can do is guess this will also allow your ike to stay alive longer to make a move to ko your opponent or an fsmash when executed right
Unfortunately, because most characters have a projectile and Ike does not, Ike is forced to approach most of the time. Again, rolling is certainly not a good option. When used constantly, it's not a guessing game anymore - your opponent will start baiting the roll and then punish accordingly.
 

ChaosMagician

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Sep 26, 2010
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everyone has there own playing styles metroid and this is how i use him n like i said this is a crappy explanation of how i actually use him. you will see if i brawl you lol
 

Nysyarc

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everyone has there own playing styles metroid and this is how i use him n like i said this is a crappy explanation of how i actually use him. you will see if i brawl you lol
Everyone does have their own style, but metroid is right. At a competitive level, excessive use of QuickDraw and rolling just isn't a good idea. You have to consider how long it takes to perform the rolling animation versus basically any other evasive maneuver or even just using your shield.

And QuickDraw is very easy for opponents to punish if you whiff it or hit their shield. Keep in mind that good players won't be playing on reaction, they'll be watching for patterns in your play style and trying to bait you into repeating those patterns so that they can punish you for poor decisions.

Example: I notice you like to roll behind me when I am facing you and I just used a quick attack like Jab on your shield. At the next opportunity, I Jab your shield and then turn around and charge an Fsmash. You follow your habit/instinct and roll behind me, not noticing the Fsmash. I then release the Fsmash while you are still unable to do anything after your roll, likely KOing you.

You have to be as unpredictable as you can and always be 100% aware of your actions, never do something on reaction or as an impulse if you can help it.


:034:
 

ChaosMagician

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you know what nysyarc im in a good mood atm and i want to brawl so i challange you to a few matches

as in 1 game = one match imo

plus i want to show you what i realy meant lol
 

-RedX-

Smash Lord
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I plan to 2-0 everybody.

Usually, when I go in with that mindset I really only lose like 1-2 matches. :D

Why the **** did I say this in the video critique thread.
 

Nysyarc

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you know what nysyarc im in a good mood atm and i want to brawl so i challange you to a few matches

as in 1 game = one match imo

plus i want to show you what i realy meant lol
Yah sure, I'm not busy at the moment. Just add my FC and start hosting, I'll join in.

Edit: Oh and no more off-topic posts in this thread please. I didn't even fully realize this was the critique thread when I saw the current conversation, lol.


:034:
 

YagamiLight

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Yah sure, I'm not busy at the moment. Just add my FC and start hosting, I'll join in.

Edit: Oh and no more off-topic posts in this thread please. I didn't even fully realize this was the critique thread when I saw the current conversation, lol.


:034:
Oh ****, this is the critique thread?

My bad, my bad. Totally thought it was the biweekly thread.
 

Foodies

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inb4dairsintoground

Well, let's just say you have a lot to improve on. You haven't mastered the basics and do nearly everything you aren't supposed to do. Ex:
-Quickdraw as a blatantly obvious attack
-Fsmash too much
-Punishing with wrong moves in general
-Dairs into ground as said before
-Random Eruption
-Always jump after you get hit
-Wait what, why is this on time?

Yeah...I stopped watching. :/
Try to find some human players, even if you have to play wifi. CPU's aren't the best for critique.

I suggest you read our awesome (we really need to finish this) guide: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279394
The moveset analysis part, at least. Learn which moves you should be using and when.
 

Nysyarc

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfonh0VTEms

Critique my playstyle as Ike. I don't have a human to compare to just yet, so it's not stellar, and my recording quality is crap (sorry!). Gives the idea though. I can only practically record replays, so this is just a 2 minute match. Any advice is appreciated.
Welcome to the Ike boards!

It's great that you'd like to have something critiqued so you can improve, there are just a few outstanding reasons why critiquing a match against a CPU won't really help very much. A CPU plays entirely on reaction based on your button inputs, and is incapable of reading and punishing your mistakes, this also works the other way around. Anything you can bait a CPU into doing is baited because of the CPU's programming and not because of a set-up on your part.

Sorry if I didn't explain that too well, but what it comes down to is that CPUs are terrible opponents for gauging any kind of skill level against. As such, it's not a good idea for us to critique this match because it will only help you with fighting CPUs, not other players.

If you don't know any local players you can try using Facebook or some other social networking site to find a local group of smashers in your general area, and if that comes up with no results, there is always WiFi. You can go to http://allisbrawl.com/ and create an account to play on their online ladder or just free play under the Chat tab at the top. Alternatively, you can ask some of us here at the Ike boards if we'd like to have some friendly matches with you in this thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=277329

If you can get a video against another player I would be more than happy to fully critique it for you though!


inb4dairsintoground
I lol'd. And yah, no using Dair into the ground. :p

:034:
 

AndorranPrince

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
14
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Burlington ON Canada
I agreed, I did some stupid things that round LOL. The eruption was because I hadn't read the guide yet and was trying to divide up my moves. Usually PVP I'm better as Yoshi. I might try the lagtastic world of wifi for better practice. Yeah, I understand where I want wrong :p Quickdraw, etc were used on the cpu because, yes, the cpu is pretty easy pickings for something like that aha

Thanks! :)
 

Teh Brettster

Smash Master
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Denton, Texas (Dallas)
inb4dairsintoground

Well, let's just say you have a lot to improve on. You haven't mastered the basics and do nearly everything you aren't supposed to do. Ex:
-Quickdraw as a blatantly obvious attack
-Fsmash too much
-Punishing with wrong moves in general
-Dairs into ground as said before
-Random Eruption
-Always jump after you get hit
-Wait what, why is this on time?

Yeah...I stopped watching. :/
Try to find some human players, even if you have to play wifi. CPU's aren't the best for critique.

I suggest you read our awesome (we really need to finish this) guide: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=279394
The moveset analysis part, at least. Learn which moves you should be using and when.
Lol, Foodies, I believe YOU deserve a sandwich for this critique.
 

Juno McGrath

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Nysyarc

Last King of Hollywood
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Snap. :ike: VS 313 :snake:

Game 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9HjrIY3_EU

Ive only been playing Ike as a secondary for like, two weeks. This was the first time i ever played him in tournament. So if he seems unconventional my bad, ive just never been on these boards before haha.
Welcome to the Ike boards! I'll get right to it.

Critiquing game 2 since it was the only one you lost. If this is a tourney set, just for the future, you probably shouldn't CP Snake to FD as Ike... especially if he already beat you there once, lol. It worked out this time but you've got better options for sure. PS1, PS2, RC, Delfino... get used to some janky stages because Ike loves them (for the most part).

Also, as amusing as I found the background texture for FD at first, it quickly started to just get annoying/distracting and almost made me critique match 1 instead, but you 2-stocked him that match so it wouldn't be worth critiquing as much. Just for the future if there are any animated backgrounds that are very intrusive and distracting like that, make sure to record the replay without the texture. It just makes my job a lot easier, lol.

0:10 - It's good that you're cautious about your spacing and retreated, but be sure you know the Fair will at least hit their shield first. Also, spacing Fair on Snake isn't such a great idea due to his Ftilt, which can punish it pretty consistently even if spaced really well. Instead try to approach from the ground more and contest his tilts with Jabs or wait for him to make the first move and punish.
0:17 - Try and refrain from using Bair on a short-hop after you've already left the ground, as it won't auto-cancel. Instantly using Bair as soon as you short-hop will auto-cancel it (as long as you don't fast-fall), and if you have already jumped you can alternatively use an Nair which has less landing lag. This is made easier with Attack Stick setting so you can Nair using the C-stick.
0:19 - Too much rolling/spot-dodging here and not enough Jabbing. Spot-dodge isn't a good idea up close against Snake because his Ftilt can easily frame-trap it. Approach with shield-canceling you dash or SHAD and then Jab to pressure him. And make sure when you get a Jab, you follow it up to get as much damage as possible, not sure why you turned at 0:21.
0:31 - That was a pretty obvious roll by him; in this situation, where you have them cornered at the edge and they like to play campy, a roll is a likely move for them. So instead of using Fair straight at where they currently are, use an Nair that would just barely clip them (incase they don't roll) and be prepared to turn and Jab as soon as IASA frames arrive (if they do roll).
0:33 - If a grab doesn't work the first time, don't try again, Jab. And I don't just mean immediately afterwards; if you notice someone likes to spot-dodge your grab attempts (which this guy seems to), Jab at close range to punish them. It should really be done the other way around though; Jab first to set-up the grab when they start holding their shield on to counter the Jabs.
0:37 - Dthrow at that percent is risky, but you at least kind of had the right idea for a follow-up (in that you didn't use Aether). Dthrow is best used at very low %s (under 20%) to either get opponents above a platform or to set-up for an airdodge read and string of attacks. Now, what is Ike's best move for stringing attacks at low percents? Nair. And it just so happens that Nair is also an excellent frame-trap for air-dodges. Dthrow them, jump and Nair so the long hitbox hits them after the almost inevitable air-dodge, and then follow-up with an Utilt/grab/Jab/whatever. Fair isn't a good choice as a Dthrow follow-up since it only hits for a few frames and cannot be followed-up itself.
0:46 - Now this is a case where a grab would have been ideal. Never throw out an aerial at a Snake shielding with a grenade in his hand. He wants you to do that so he can either shield grab you and string something together, or you blow yourself up on his grenade. Instead, make like you're going to aerial him and then land and grab him before he can grab you. If you have port priority, pummel so his grenade blows him up, if not, just Fthrow/Bthrow him and attempt to follow-up.
0:49 - No Dair into the ground. Ever. Even if it seems like a good option at the time. An Nair there would have led to him being popped up in the air and you recovering from MUCH less landing lag. That scenario could lead to a read on your part or just general pressuring of his landing. Instead, he ate the Dair but it ended there due to your landing lag and he started to pressure you again immediately.
1:04 - Nice Bair, although I don't know why he waited so long to upB... unless he thought he still had his second jump. It was either poor awareness or just a bad decision on his part.
1:12 - By all rights that Usmash should have hit... something, at least. The initial swing I can understand, but the fact that the lingering back end of the hitbox didn't even touch him or his shield after his air-dodge is really weird. Good read and choice of attack on your part... no idea why it didn't work.
1:14 - The rolling has to go. You're missing a lot of opportunities to punish him with Jabs. You have to be 100% conscious of every move you make, including rolls/dodges. Never do anything on impulse if you can help it, that's just a bad way to go for Ike.
1:23 - Don't land on the stage with Aether, no matter how confident you are that you'll hit him. That last hit of Aether landing does 6% damage fresh, and will often just gently pop your opponent into the air where they can immediately retaliate against you. If you miss (which is likely, it's easy to dodge/shield) you're left completely open to just about any attack they want to use on you. Cons far outweigh the pros, particularly when your other option (grabbing the ledge) is 100% safe as long as they aren't close enough to edge-hog you.
2:03 - In this situation where Snake is coming up from below but is already slightly above stage level, you should just stand near the edge and bait an air-dodge instead of going for an obvious Dair. If he air-dodges (which is more than likely), either edge-hog him if he's far enough out, or Jab him out of it if he's close enough to land on the stage.
2:32 - Nothing wrong with an aggro Ike, but there's definitely something wrong with an aggro Ike blindly and repeatedly using Fair. By this point (after taking 50% damage in ten seconds), you really should have realized your Fair frenzy wasn't working. Take note of those sorts of situations where a battle shifts dramatically in your opponent's favor, figure out why it happened, and change tact. If you can't come up with any creative ideas of what to do instead, always default to Jab, Nair and Bair.
2:44 - Try not to finish a Jab combo (by using the third hit) on your opponent's shield. If the first two Jabs are shielded, either attempt to pressure their shield further by crouch-canceling back to the first Jab (only suggested for characters with poor OoS options), or retreat and reset your spacing. You can also stop Jabbing their shield to see what they will do, and try to bait that reaction at a later time.
2:52 - When returning to the stage after being popped up into the air like that, Nair is your best option. It covers more area around you and has much less landing lag than your other aerials. As I mentioned before, having Attack C-stick setting helps for this, even if you only use that setting while playing as Ike.
3:32 - Against a relatively tall character like Snake you could be using full-hop Fairs for pressure so that they auto-cancel (as opposed to SHFF Fairs). You may spend more time in the air but you'll have more control over your spacing and the auto-cancel can often catch players by surprise, allowing for some free Jabs.
3:36 - A spike at that % and when he's that high above you is just not a good option, try not to be unnecessarily flashy. Would have been better to just leave that jump empty, land back on the stage, follow him and Jab/Utilt/Usmash (depending on how hard a read you can make) when he landed.
3:40 - Also a bad idea. Fsmash should only be used as a KO move from between 40-60% on most characters, and mainly just near the ledge unless a good opportunity presents itself otherwise. Stick to Bair, Utilt, Fair, Usmash, Uair and Ftilt (in roughly that order of how reliable/safe they are) for KOing at higher percents.
3:42 - Whoa, DI, lol. Always DI up with Ike unless you have good reason to believe you're being sent up (for example, while playing character like Luigi/Fox/Falco who have good vertical KO moves but not many horizontal ones). Training yourself to always hold up when you're hit will make you harder to gimp and negate the possibility of what happened to you here. Also, momentum cancel with an air-dodge followed by a jump when you're sent horizontally, and an aerial while fast-falling when sent vertically. From the looks of it (and based on my knowledge of Ike's recovery), if you had done air-dodge + jump instead of that Fair, you could have survived, even with the bad DI.

I won't say too much to wrap it up, since I'm sure that critique gave you enough to think about, lol. You seem like you know what you're doing as a player for the most part, but you don't look too familiar/comfortable with Ike's arsenal and the strong emphasis on meticulous spacing involved with playing him. Just remember: Jab before grab, Nair before Fair, Usmash before Fsmash, and no Dair into the ground.
:bee:

How many of you guys skim through my critiques just looking for "No Dair into ground"? I swear, every critique, lol.

:034:
 

-RedX-

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Location
Bronx, NY
0:49 - No Dair into the ground. Ever. Even if it seems like a good option at the time. An Nair there would have led to him being popped up in the air and you recovering from MUCH less landing lag. That scenario could lead to a read on your part or just general pressuring of his landing. Instead, he ate the Dair but it ended there due to your landing lag and he started to pressure you again immediately.


FOUND IT.
How many of you guys skim through my critiques just looking for "No Dair into ground"? I swear, every critique, lol.

:034:
Oh....
 

•Col•

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
2,450
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcphH1MSErY Slaps vs. Razer both games.. I acknowledge a few nair with c stick failures and some fast falls that didn't come out.. =] critique plz
Never really critiqued before, but eh, I'll give it my best shot.

0:08 - Yikes, be careful when dashing, as you can't shield right away at the start of it. You ran head first into an ftilt. D:

0:13 - Err... Snake's mortar has a very predictable trajectory, so... Not really sure why you decided to spotdodge there. x_x Probably just should of dropped down through, or not landed on the platform at all.

0:26 - You fell right into his trap... You HAVE to always remember where Snake puts his C4 in the matchup...

0:29 - Gotta be careful when airdodging into the ground like that... I thought for sure the Snake was going to go for an utilt there.

0:32 - *cough*.... Uh.... If you're going to throw out random fsmashes, at least do it when they're within kill percent...... Not 12%. I'm just going to assume that was a controller mishap or something.

1:01 - Ok, this is when you start picking it up and start putting the pressure on Snake until....

1:11 - You run up and spotdodge in his face, then get hit with an ftilt. And y=it looks like you might have been able to live that if you di'ed correctly...

1:14 - You start punishing Snake here a bit for making some mistakes... And then you're about to get him into a really nice position for you to take advantage of, and then...

1:20 - You run straight into a landmine. Remember when I said you always have to remember where Snake's C4 is? Well the same goes for his mines.

1:21 - You try to punish snake by using an fair, but he's way out of range, and you totally whiff it. Then get punished. It seems like you saw Snake's fair and got to thinking "HERE'S MY CHANCE"... Patience, my friend. Patience.

2:13 - Nice catching Snake with the back part of uair. I really thought you were going to miss. If you look closely, you can even see that the beginning of it "sparked", lol.

2:32 - Dash attack was a really bad decision here. You always want to try to hit with the tip of it... And seeing as where Snake was landing, a dash attack would've left you either RIGHT in front of or RIGHT behind him. Which means you would be extremely vulnerable if he shielded or spotdodged it. This was also a nice little opportunity that I thought would've been good for a mixup like a pivot grab. Snake had lost his midair jump and was FORCED to land onto the stage. This is a good time to try to punish any character really...

2:38 - Why the random bair? o.o Then to make matters worse, you fast fall it into the ground and receive even more lag for the Snake to punish you.

2:44 - Fair isn't really that good of a move for air-to-air combat. It has enough startup time that people can airdodge right through it and then punish you. It's better to bait airdodges, THEN use fair.

2:48 - You HAVE to be careful when rolling behind an opponent. It's almost always a bad idea, and good players will ALWAYS punish you for it.

Ack... Not much to say for the rest of the first match... After you lost your second stock, it looks like you just got totally frazzled and went for an all-out attack. This was a big mistake, to say the least. You just start running into bombs and attacks and get up to 158% in just a minute.

4:18 - Uh... Ok. Dashing through the air toward your opponent in a free-fall state is definitely not the best way to start a match, lol. I'm guessing you were aiming for the top platform, but... You should probably be comfortable with how far Side-B will send you by now....

4:24 - Again, be careful when dashing as you can't shield right away. You run straight into Snake's fair and get hit JUST before your shield gets all the way out.

4:28-4:34 - Nice taking advantage of the little slopes in the stage. This is why I love the stage with Ike. The layout can really help Ike in regards to actual stage control.

4:35 - Uh... Just a note, you only have to momentum cancel with an airdodge when you're sent flying really far away, lol. You could have used an fair/nair to hit Snake out of his Cypher. Instead you airdodge and left yourself wide open for an attack. :(

4:53 - Dunno why you Side-B'ed there.

5:07 - Again, gotta remember where the C4 is.

5:27
- Lol, watch out for that stupid little wall glitch thingie there.

5:43-6:01 - Your spacing was really good here and punished Snake really well, giving him almost a 100% in just under twenty seconds.

6:18 - Uuuuuuuuuuuugh, noooooooooo. It was so obvious what he was trying to do. D: He was hoping you'd jump up after him... You gotta watch that C4, man.

6:43 - Nice, you baited him to airdodge and then punished him for doing it.

7:07 - Nice DI, I thought you were dead there. Although it looks like you could have used a bair earlier there to help momentum cancel.

7:12-7:14 - When momentum canceling when you're sent vertically... Use a fastfalled bair/dair... Airdodge doesn't help at all.


Overall, it seems like you really need to just be more patient. A lot of times you'd get too anxious, jump the gun, and try to attack, only to be punished for it. You have to be a little more careful at times.

It kinda seems like you still don't have a complete feel for the spacing of Ike's moves... I mentioned this a little above. There were time where you were trying to punish something with an fair, only to be out of range. Other times you were using dash attack and ending up right next to the Snake. There were also times where you overestimated and underestimated how far Side B would carry you. Also, it seems like you still need to learn more about other characters. There were many times where you grossly over-estimated the ending lag on Snake's aerials and got punished.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: You really have to get better with choosing when you use dodging moves (Spotdodging/rolling/airdodging). I can't count the number of times where you'd try to dodge and be punished HARD for it. So many times you'd try to run right up to the Snake an then just spotdodge right in his face, and then you'd be hit. Just look at how you died....

1st Match
1st stock - You spotdodge and get killed with an ftilt.
2nd stock - You spotdodge, then try to roll behind him and get killed with an utilt
3rd stock - You spotdodge then shield, Snake grabs you then utilts you.

2nd match
1st stock - C4
2nd stock- C4
3rd stock - You start spamming airdodge and then get killed by a bair

And it's not just dying from it either... I went back and watched through the entire first match and added up all the damage you gained DIRECTLY from being punished for spotdodging/rolling/airdodging. Wanna know how much you lost...? 167% And that was just for the first match....

So, uh yeah... You should probably work on that. <_< Just a few tips... Try not running up and spotdodging so much. It gets predictable. With Ike, you should hardly ever roll behind someone. Both of these things are easy to punish.

With airdodges... It's usually more of NOT getting into positions where you have to airdodge... But if you have to, then its all about the timing.


Anyway, yeah... That's pretty much all I got. Hope I could help.
 

Slaps

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Never really critiqued before, but eh, I'll give it my best shot.

0:08 - Yikes, be careful when dashing, as you can't shield right away at the start of it. You ran head first into an ftilt. D:
Yeah I know but if you noticed my shield came up before he Ftilted me i just dropped it cause my plan was to jab him.

0:26 - You fell right into his trap... You HAVE to always remember where Snake puts his C4 in the matchup...
yeah I knew it was there the whole time, i knew i would get hit the moment i hit jump on controller XD haha i dunno

0:29 - Gotta be careful when airdodging into the ground like that... I thought for sure the Snake was going to go for an utilt there.
he wouldn't have been able to get it out in time, we hit the ground at about the same time soo i seriously doubt it.. and yes that Fsmash was an accident


1:11 - You run up and spotdodge in his face, then get hit with an ftilt. And y=it looks like you might have been able to live that if you di'ed correctly...
yeah i fail DIed there XD haha

1:20 - You run straight into a landmine. Remember when I said you always have to remember where Snake's C4 is? Well the same goes for his mines.
now that one I admit I did not see xD haha

1:21 - You try to punish snake by using an fair, but he's way out of range, and you totally whiff it. Then get punished. It seems like you saw Snake's fair and got to thinking "HERE'S MY CHANCE"... Patience, my friend. Patience.
bleh yeah i probably thought he would keep going forward or i had more momentum forward XD

2:38 - Why the random bair? o.o Then to make matters worse, you fast fall it into the ground and receive even more lag for the Snake to punish you.
like I said when i posted the video, i had a few wrong inputs that cost me.. That should have been a Nair (attack stick top right) but i failed it DX

2:44 - Fair isn't really that good of a move for air-to-air combat. It has enough startup time that people can airdodge right through it and then punish you. It's better to bait airdodges, THEN use fair.
I know man but i knew if he airdodged it i would probably be able to get down in time to shield the Bair since a lot of snakes do that, i failed the punish cause instead of turning around and jabbing i ftilted? XD

2:48 - You HAVE to be careful when rolling behind an opponent. It's almost always a bad idea, and good players will ALWAYS punish you for it.

Ack... Not much to say for the rest of the first match... After you lost your second stock, it looks like you just got totally frazzled and went for an all-out attack. This was a big mistake, to say the least. You just start running into bombs and attacks and get up to 158% in just a minute..
yeah i know, i talked to another snake main before the match about how to deal with Ftilt and moves like that since i usually have difficulty dealing with it, he says rolling behind is ok if im not read but yeah i got read and he didnt ftilt XD my bad haha yeah i know i was running into a lot of stuff.. my timing on nades was off by like half a second lol.. I play snake quite a bit on wifi and am working on him offline so i have timing down really well.. idk haha.

4:18 - Uh... Ok. Dashing through the air toward your opponent in a free-fall state is definitely not the best way to start a match, lol. I'm guessing you were aiming for the top platform, but... You should probably be comfortable with how far Side-B will send you by now....
i wanted to jump forward so i would make it =\

4:24 - Again, be careful when dashing as you can't shield right away. You run straight into Snake's fair and get hit JUST before your shield gets all the way out.
*cough cough*... nair

4:35 - Uh... Just a note, you only have to momentum cancel with an airdodge when you're sent flying really far away, lol. You could have used an fair/nair to hit Snake out of his Cypher. Instead you airdodge and left yourself wide open for an attack. :(
Yeah well he could have just as easily airdodged my Fair and punished, i think airdodge was safer for me cause if he airdodge i could have grabbed.. (missed Fair consequences>airdodge consequences) in that situation at least..

4:53 - Dunno why you Side-B'ed there.
no options really... He had c4 by the ledge, lava was coming up, he had nade right on platform by the ledge not really a choice, i coulda taken damage from lava, or just landed safely like i did XD

5:07 - Again, gotta remember where the C4 is.
oopsy daisy

5:27
- Lol, watch out for that stupid little wall glitch thingie there.
oh i knew about it XD i was gonna combat walk anyway

6:18 - Uuuuuuuuuuuugh, noooooooooo. It was so obvious what he was trying to do. D: He was hoping you'd jump up after him... You gotta watch that C4, man.
I thought i would avoid it since i aimed for to the right of it and then tried fast falling/not going too high but i forgot C4s lower reach is ridiculous XD

7:12-7:14 - When momentum canceling when you're sent vertically... Use a fastfalled bair/dair... Airdodge doesn't help at all.
I didn't intend on momentum cancelling for the sole reason that he could hit me in my lag him jumping scared me XD haha i was yelling in person "don't do it" XD lol but then he Bair did it


Overall, it seems like you really need to just be more patient. A lot of times you'd get too anxious, jump the gun, and try to attack, only to be punished for it. You have to be a little more careful at times.

It kinda seems like you still don't have a complete feel for the spacing of Ike's moves... I mentioned this a little above. There were time where you were trying to punish something with an fair, only to be out of range. Other times you were using dash attack and ending up right next to the Snake. There were also times where you overestimated and underestimated how far Side B would carry you. Also, it seems like you still need to learn more about other characters. There were many times where you grossly over-estimated the ending lag on Snake's aerials and got punished.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: You really have to get better with choosing when you use dodging moves (Spotdodging/rolling/airdodging). I can't count the number of times where you'd try to dodge and be punished HARD for it. So many times you'd try to run right up to the Snake an then just spotdodge right in his face, and then you'd be hit. Just look at how you died....

1st Match
1st stock - You spotdodge and get killed with an ftilt.
2nd stock - You spotdodge, then try to roll behind him and get killed with an utilt
3rd stock - You spotdodge then shield, Snake grabs you then utilts you.

2nd match
1st stock - C4
2nd stock- C4
3rd stock - You start spamming airdodge and then get killed by a bair

And it's not just dying from it either... I went back and watched through the entire first match and added up all the damage you gained DIRECTLY from being punished for spotdodging/rolling/airdodging. Wanna know how much you lost...? 167% And that was just for the first match....

So, uh yeah... You should probably work on that. <_< Just a few tips... Try not running up and spotdodging so much. It gets predictable. With Ike, you should hardly ever roll behind someone. Both of these things are easy to punish.

With airdodges... It's usually more of NOT getting into positions where you have to airdodge... But if you have to, then its all about the timing.


Anyway, yeah... That's pretty much all I got. Hope I could help.
Yeah thanks man, I don't think that was the best I could have played but idk, that day looking back on it seemed like i was caring without caring.. Like I was talking while we were playing XD haha it was fun but i am not sure if i was playing my best, i might just have that UTDZac trait of being able to play seriously while talking.. I don't know but like I said, i had a lot of spacing failures and a few button input failures XD but that was my first time playing Razer and he is like top 3 snakes.. Yeah I am also working on my spot dodge habit, i gotta learn to roll away more, i dont do it like ever.. But my spacing is usually really good, i don't know what happened..
 

theeboredone

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If you were talking while playing and not taking this seriously...WHY THE **** are you asking to be critiqued on this? Wow Slaps. You do realize that goes the same for how Razer was treating you right?
 

Slaps

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If you were talking while playing and not taking this seriously...WHY THE **** are you asking to be critiqued on this? Wow Slaps. You do realize that goes the same for how Razer was treating you right?
I felt like i was playing at my best, but for some reason i was comfortable talking and didn't think it affected me at all.. everything i did i meant to do.. I didn't say I didn't take it seriously, i just said looking back and seeing how i was talking i would assume (viewing from another perspective) that i wasn't taking it seriously but when i was playing it still felt serious...
 

theeboredone

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Talking will divert your attention from your main focus. Even if you are taking it seriously, you aren't 100% focused on the task at hand.
 

•Col•

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Err.... Why did you complain in the other thread about how no one was critiquing your matches? X_X That's the only reason I came into this thread, because I felt bad that you were waiting for almost a week now. If I knew you were going to just john about everything I said, I wouldn't have even bothered. -_-;;;

Well anyway, thank you for making me feel like I completely wasted an hour of my life today.
 

Slaps

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Err.... Why did you complain in the other thread about how no one was critiquing your matches? X_X That's the only reason I came into this thread, because I felt bad that you were waiting for almost a week now. If I knew you were going to just john about everything I said, I wouldn't have even bothered. -_-;;;

Well anyway, thank you for making me feel like I completely wasted an hour of my life today.
nah you did good man, not everything i noticed XD but really man you did good haha, i know im probably johning but yeah imma work on a lot of that stuff =] hopefully ill do better next time.. =\
 

theeboredone

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nah you did good man, not everything i noticed XD but really man you did good haha, i know im probably johning but yeah imma work on a lot of that stuff =] hopefully ill do better next time.. =\
No, you were johning hard. Next time, shut up and acknowledge your mistakes. Otherwise, don't post a video in here again.
 

Ussi

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oheMyX_j26M

first vid of my ike. i know i screwed up fair a lot and a few jab cancels
Well, space better with fair /endcritique


anyways.. You need deal with platform pressure better. Tilt shield downwards to not get shield poked and such. drop down/walk off bair is your best counter to it, otherwise jump off and try to land farther away.

You need to use bair more. retreating bair is safe on shield as well. Be wary of being grabbed, if that falco was better, he'd have gimped you for sure after that spike as all falco needs to do is is a FF bair to 2nd jump and recover. To avoid being gimped at all, you need to SDI onto the stage.

OoS usmash killed you because you didn't space, that is why its crucial to space fair (and to avoid the grab too)

What you both need though is the ability to play faster. You need to pressure better and take pressure better. And pressure is directly proportional to speed, if you are faster, you apply better pressure because its more mental strain on the mind to keep up without playing reckless or blindly.

So take the time to learn your options as Ike, play around with all the moves (except dsmash) and see how it works for you. It will take time and experience, but once you start to know what your doing you can progress to play faster.
 

Nysyarc

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OaKzR0nerY

I figure the other matches in this set don't need critiquing since there were some shenanigans going on. This was actually the third match in the set, so things got super serious (winner stays on TV).
Okay, I've updated the OP with the latest critiques, and nice critique btw Colaya.

Alright, I'll jump right into this critique:

0:07 - I'll assume that was a missed input, I probably don't have to tell you that's a bad idea, lol.
0:13 - Right here he was SDIing right back into your Jabs, it may be a good idea to milk the Jab canceling for all it's worth if you notice him doing that, and since you have him against a low wall he can really only SDI up, possibly giving you a free Utilt or AD read.
0:16 - At such a low % it would be better just to stick to shield grab and Jabs for pressuring landings, even if you think he'll AD.
0:30 - You can hit Yoshi planking with Fair, particularly on that raised ledge of RC, but it may be less costly to just keep your distance, PS eggs and try to read his get-up since he doesn't have a short double jump to get back up.
0:46 - OoS Usmash? Definitely a Jab moment.
1:05 - That was nice, and I guess it may have been difficult to assess the risk/reward at the time, but I think once you threw him off the pendulum it may have been better to just try and pressure his return from a safe position. Still, both of you losing a stock was in your favor due to percents, so nothing serious.
2:37 - Yah, above Yoshi is never where you want to be at high percents. Even dropping down and hanging back on the sinking ship would have been a better idea, and try to approach him from below/the side. It's difficult to always be thinking about your positioning on RC, especially when the ideal spot differs based on what character you're fighting.
3:14 - On the positioning, I think you would have been better off jumping to the new platform to your right here. Try to avoid fighting on the pendulum as much as possible; Yoshi's Usmash could have stage-spiked you pretty hard at that percent.
4:20 - Not much to be said there, nice read by him. I guess since he was so close to the ledge, you could have Aether-planked to buy yourself some space... and of course he would have eaten the full thing since he did that ground pound. Aetherplanking is tricky on that side of RC because of the moving lip, but definitely possible, and if you choose to land on the stage you'll slide a bit.

Solid match, a lot of good decisions mixed in with some poor ones, although the poor ones obviously outweighed the good ones a bit. I noticed several Fsmash/Usmash attempts at relatively low percents where something simpler would have worked, so be aware of that. And there were some Fairs that seemed thrown out on impulse or desperation, like at 2:52, where an AD followed by Jabs or even just retreating would have been a better option.

Other than that, always be aware of your positioning on RC, staying ahead of your opponent (or below them in some cases) is often more important than taking advantage of a possible opportunity by going backwards. Hope that helps a bit, I'm no expert on the Yoshi MU since there are no local Yoshi mains around here, but I do like RC a lot. Let me know if you'd like me to clarify/elaborate on anything.


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theeboredone

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I'm pretty sure I lead all Ikes in the "I did F-smash when I meant to dash attack" statistic in regards to your first point. That and "I meant to turn around and jab, but buffered a dash attack".

Also, in regards to jab canceling Yoshi, I don't know the specifics, but Poltergust can sometimes N-air during the jab canceling. The attack comes out relatively quick, and it's happened enough to where I make myself self-conscious about it. Still though, I guess I should ask what position he has to be in for it to work.
 

Nysyarc

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Just checked Yoshi's frame data and apparently Nair's hitbox comes out on frame 3. So yah, it'd be close but if you were even a little bit late on a Jab cancel he could fit an Nair in there. I wasn't aware of that so it may actually be better to just do one cancel back to Jab 1 and then finish all three hits, depending on whether or not that particular Yoshi player likes to Nair out of it or not.

You could use Jab 1 twice and then shield to try and bait the Nair, and then punish it with more Jabs or a grab. That's only theory though because his Nair may come out faster than you can shield or he may be able to retreat enough after the Nair to avoid punishment.


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