Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

ohhh snap there's gonna be a smym12? im going

Strong bad just pick zelda and you'll beat scar

zelda ***** falcon

^ Yeah she does!

Nah homies falcon destroys zelda badly lol

thats what i mean jugglerob.

consistency is hard, and when i go into a spurts of failing my lcancels i just get down on myself and i'm completely done for that day as far as playing well or having fun while playing.

my falcon is really inconsistent too

its terrible

it takes me like 2 hours to warm up to the point that i can put up a fight

Grind dat tech skill moar.

ChivalRuse said:

Grind dat tech skill moar.

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Hey you. I know how to pronounce your name now.

Too bad no one can pronounce mine

day9 just repeated what i said in the stream word for word.

i feel so happy.

roneblaster, you can dropzone shy guys but can't L cancel?

i dnt even

flash > substance.

Kason Birdman said:

Hey you. I know how to pronounce your name now.

Too bad no one can pronounce mine

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Kay Sahn??

@reneblade...****ing just practice L cancelling..simple as that.

Sheik tied me up with her chain, and was gonna **** me...

Then she pressed down B...

Best match of my life...

Is it not just Jason with a K

luckily, it wasn't

WHEW

Juggleguy said:

Stop moping and start ******!

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**** comment.

S2j your falcon is so fast now holy ****. Good work man, your practice is clearly paying off with some nice wins.

Renechris, whats the next tournament you are going to? SMYM?? Its been too long man, come to SG!

going to P5 and Smym12.

i work every weekend and i dont get paid ****, so traveling to chicago is out of the question.

Weekend work is lame.
Never had it aside from playing music at nights, but that's different. :/

S2J saw a couple matches of you against Lucky or something.
You NAIR SO MUCH AND SO FAST!

This might seem silly and (why would you listen to me?) stuff...but...

Try NOT Nairing >_>
You know I spam "NAIR SUCKS" stuff (it's a good move, but lol)

Nair like you do, but every once in a while, DON'T, and see what happens. Waveland backwards or DJ waveland the plat into things etc. SO many times you'd Nair>they Nair you/run in and shield/grab/anything where you could jump again>waveland>bair them/Nair again lol etc.

Something that Hugs does really well is establish that he's a "Giant ball of hitbox and pressure" when he's near you. You do that with Falcon immediately and sustain that with your speed and people adjust to it. If you do that and then ALTER yourself into looking like you still are but move differently, THAT is how 'mindgames' are WON.

If you watch a Mango Falcon against someone, Fox or Falcon or whatever. You can see him Bair quickly or something and land in his shield, then do the same with Uair/Knees/Nairs/Stomps/then suddenly he's in the EXACT SAME SITUATION and WDs OOS and grabs them because he's established that IF HE'S THERE, HE WILL BAIR(etc) and they're ready for THAT, but not what he CHANGES to.

Change = getting better.
I know you probably are excelling superspeed but that's something I think would be awesome for you.
You'd probably do it eventually anyway (and this applies to more than just you and just nairs) but yeah, I felt I should point this out.

Dropzone Dair *****.

i think bamesy's advice is very good, for everybody

if you make them afraid of moves they know you can do early on, you dont have to always do them anymore

i understand that, especially vs fast foxes like lucky, nairs are done out of our own fear as much as wanting to hit them, but mix in some empty short hops where you dont nair, fast double jumps, etc

i was giving similar advice just the other day to a player who was perfect at punishing but didnt know how to create his own openings against sufficiently good players

When your opponent is finding ways to punish one kind of approach, the mix ups work more often =]

Mix ups is not a hard concept to understand. I thought that was common knowledge in ALL fgs, and im pretty sure 85 percent of the people here understand it.

lol why do mixups when you CAN KEEP DOING THE SAME THING?!!!!?


trololol.

Strong Bad said:

jesus christ, someone finally understands.
doing different things in different similar situations is called "mix-ups" and is why high level play is so difficult for most to understand.

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10charssss

BigD!!! said:

i think bamesy's advice is very good, for everybody

if you make them afraid of moves they know you can do early on, you dont have to always do them anymore

i understand that, especially vs fast foxes like lucky, nairs are done out of our own fear as much as wanting to hit them, but mix in some empty short hops where you dont nair, fast double jumps, etc

i was giving similar advice just the other day to a player who was perfect at punishing but didnt know how to create his own openings against sufficiently good players

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Yeah you!

Palpi said:

Mix ups are the only thing that work against anybody who doesn't jump into ****.
When your opponent is finding ways to punish one kind of approach, the mix ups work more often =]

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fixed

Strong Bad said:

jesus christ, someone finally understands.
doing different things in different situations is called "mix-ups" and is why high level play is so difficult for most to understand.

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High level anything seems so complicated to anyone who looks into it. It's like "Wow there is a LOT more going on here, I didn't know this before." then into "Wow I know a LOT of what's going on, but I don't know what I'm missing"
Basic steps of improving.

There are few that understand (few meaning all who play or can at least compete at a higher level than the average player) and even fewer that know how to get to that level who actually USE what they KNOW. That's the most difficult part from most as it means doing EVERYTHING YOU DON'T DO NOW and NOT DOING WHAT YOU DO NOW.

If: What you do now isn't THE BEST IN THE WORLD
Means: Don't do just that and also do things you don't do
as it's not the best you can do, but the ONLY way you can do better is to not do what you're limiting YOURSELF to.

I only know a few 'smashers' who actually do this, let alone understand fully. A player locally has played less than anybody I know in the entire WC of Canada, and he's better proportionally than anybody I know because of the way he sees the game. Recently as we were playing, I went on a verge of 3/4 stocking his Fox/Falcon with Mario and then sat for a while thinking. Afterwards, he did WAY better and was actually keeping up for me, and he pointed out something and said this.

"I think I just played some of the best smash of my life tonight. I've always thought of how not getting hit is the most important thing since it seems like getting 0-deathed is almost possible after every hit, so I always play that way. But after you were beating me there, I just started to watch you and how you never pushed passed where you needed to be, because of how I play that way. So I changed so that I wasn't playing like me."

And that's exactly what's needed. He switched how he played entirely, but because of 'HOW HE PLAYS', he was still 'playing like him'
It's strange to explain, but it's needed. I just wish more people could see it that way. >_>
There's a reason I can compete with the best in the world and don't practice or live within 5 hours from anybody. LOL

ETWIST51294 said:

Mix ups is not a hard concept to understand. I thought that was common knowledge in ALL fgs, and im pretty sure 85 percent of the people here understand it.

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It's common knowledge in ALL life. lol
I won't go into detail but...
Knowing something through experience and the experience shared by others is something.
Understanding it and knowing what it takes to apply it to yourself is another thing.
Actually applying it is another.
There are very view that go the whole way. MORE IMPORTANTLY, anybody can at any moment, yet it takes exceptional amounts of 'experience' and 'growth' before most do. This isn't just for smash, it applies to all aspects of life.

tdlr
Don't think of it as 'mixups' or 'mindgames' or anything of that nature.
Think of it as YOU GROWING. Getting BETTER. Not LONG TERM, but IN THE MOMENT.

To Improve = To become different towards what is better.
To become different = to CHANGE
Always change (what you're doing), it's the ONLY WAY TO GET BETTER
Fact of life.*

Roneblaster said:

lol why do mixups when you CAN KEEP DOING THE SAME THING?!!!!?


trololol.

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Because we're all a 'little' insane.

bamesy's pretty ****

bamesy u make excellent points. i've found that one of the best ways to improve is to take in advice from multiple perspectives rather than just my own or some top players

i don't think i can stop nairing though in the near future though sorry

my gameplan vs fox is to comfortably nair until i pick up reads and/or bad habits. its a conservative style that i sorta adapted from nes n00b and dr.pee pee's style and i find it gets me consistent results. I like that guaranteed safety/ hit over riskier situations although sometimes I will make a move if I think they don't expect it (they think i'm just going to nair again like a noob). I believe that's why I am still really bad at edgeguarding because I want a guaranteed hit from an up-tilt rather than going for edgeguard reads.

I'm a more conservative player than most and it's gotten me some decent wins. I do experiment a lot though and when it comes down to tournament try hard mode i just go with the best strategy i got. Until I find something better than nair spam i'll change. For now its great because most foxes do not know how to deal with my f@ggot play and i've fluked wins vs top foxes when I mm'ed them when they come to cali.

I am very experimental though I assure you

What I've learned recently is that dash attack is EXTREMELY underrated in certain spots because it comes out fast enough with decent knockback, letting you hit them in spots where it wouldn't otherwise work.

I think vs lucky in winners semis I dash attacked his double jump onto the edge because yoshi's is slanted and did a weak knee gimp followup. Also sometimes if you whiff a tech read the ONLY move that has a chance of hitting them is dash attack. Against ducking jigglypuffs I find that dash attack at mid percents is great although it will simply knock them down but better than nothing

--
d-tilt is also very underrated as a tech chase move especially when you hit them close to the edge because it's the fastest move you can use to cover multiple options out of a run and way safer than side-b at an edge

a lot of my tricksies are based off of nair spacing too. By spamming nair you build history vs smart/intelligent players and that in my opinion is the best time to make that small subtle change. i do agree though that i still get hit a lot for nairing too much.

i 100% agree that you must do mixups, things like wavedashing on the tip of the edge a few times till they catch on to airdodging in (be barely off the floor from the edge) will make you live longer.

That's why I highly advocate rolling like a n00b until they catch on then start buffering jumps. Once they catch onto that... sit in your shield. Certain characters like Iceys or Peach if they try to predict your jump they'll whiff and you are underneath them which grants you 50 up-airs to knee

Only time you should NOT mix it up is if they cannot punish you or they never catch on. Know your opponents capabilities and adjust. If they can't punish rolls, then I see NO reason not to stop rolling.

empty short hops are pretty good but the better people get the quicker they respond by rolling, shine out of shield, etc. it's great though in high pressure spots and sometimes i KNOW they are going to roll so i can predict and punish correctly

but to be able to win without nair spam that'd be really great. i'm still a work in progress so i hope i find some way to win without playing really ghey. I have lost some respect from some buddies due to my playstyle lol.

omg long *** posts.

ETWIST51294 said:

omg long *** posts.

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we breakin' some ground here, man

This aint the first tim.e dawg. I cant join in cuz typing long *** posts on a phone suckkssss.

That wasn't a very long post.

Johnny, you're right that dash attack is underrated. But if you do that to Hbox I guarantee you'll get rested out of shield.

Well, the mobile version of SWF compresses posts to look 2 or 3 times larger than they are. So they look longer to me.

yo at like 45-50% vs iirc tec0 i did it once

i did a downthrow then dash attacked

it hits them right before they hit the ground

then they miss tech, you jab reset then ****

ive tried it vs cpu's at that percent and it works

im gonna try now it out tmr at no johns

edit: vs spacies lol

ChivalRuse said:

That wasn't a very long post.

Johnny, you're right that dash attack is underrated. But if you do that to Hbox I guarantee you'll get rested out of shield.

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actually got it from playing hbox

when ever i dash dance he'll assume i'll go for a grab and duck and instead i dash attack to hit him

Really? Wow. Hbox sucks.

LOL I love how you say dash attack is underrated. It's really really good.
I spam it too much too often though. Sometimes it's when I miss a pivot ftilt (which I spam even more) but sometimes I'm just too slow for aerials so DA works.

Dash Attack > Jab Reset is known as the Bamesy combo in my region. It's EXTERMELY effective and mid %.
PS: Everybody will always miss the tech, it's messed up. Same off ftilts mid-combo.

I've only ever pulled a double Bamesy once though and it was my favorite Falcon combo EVER!!!

Dthrow>techchase with dash attack+reset>Stomp>late as they fall dash attack+jab reset>stomp>reverse bair>stomp off stage. It's like my dream to do it again. LOL

And if they DI in, it's all free!
So cute. <3

Never really tried Dtilt for tech chasing though...or just generally using it for anything but very situational edgeguarding (like against a Falcon going too high or something)
Could be fun.

Dash Attack against Jiggs is legit and safe IF they're in the air. They're afraid of you hitting them with an aerial or grabbing them.
If you're in the air, they'll space something at you/back away.
If you're on the ground, they'll go in the air and space something for you to shield.
If they're in the air and you just run RIGHT THROUGH THEM at mid%, they can't shield/crouch/anything but hope to jump ABOVE you (where they DON'T WANT TO BE, so why would they?)
They're trying to space something at you horizontally, not get above you and not be on the ground.
Often it's a free dash attack and it's not punishable by anything but trades, which are good since Jiggs dies first through trades (unless it's rest lol)
(PS:That fox/falcon that I mentioned that is REALLY smart actually mains Jiggs, and it's annoying as ****, but he hates dash attack cause I'm the only Falcon he plays, and it's one of the main reasons I can arpe him still)



Edit: YES CaptainNANDO!!!

And what S2J said about Jiggs

My post is irrelevant repetion now...THANKS GUYS *sarcasm*
Yeah, you know what's up. :D