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Official BBR Tier List v5

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da K.I.D.

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The amount of tournament finals that I have seen that were double metaknight dittos is sickening.

the basic trend for doubles that i see is

1. double mk
2. double mk
3. mk + snake/lucario/wario
4. 2 non metas that probably played double meta on at least 2 occasions in the tourney.

it makes my stomach hurt.
 

Sinister Slush

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All I know is, "It's obvious without him as a player, I'd be trash, right? But SBR decided that they voted for the last time."
The BBR will be discussing the banishment of a certain character in due time.
The decision, arguments and a crapton of information will probably be out around April.
How will my friends and I still win easy money if Meta Knight is banned?




The fact that the BBR is even discussing this again is a joke. Let's face it, they'll never ban him. He's just not broken because other characters win big tourneys. Oh wait, they already banned one unbeatable technique and micro-banned grabbing the ledges a certain number of times across the board because of him and those characters only won said tourneys because of the micro-bans.

The current state of the game with MK legal and all of these bans to make it reasonable is an even bigger joke. We'd be better off playing vs. mode in Yoshi's Cookie, honestly.
Meanwhile at Smogon tierlist...
They Doesn't afraid to be ****ed over by their own community for banning basically all dragons, as we continue making more and more rules for MK's Safety over being banned.


/whythehellareyoucomparingpokemontoSSBB?
 

Yikarur

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The amount of tournament finals that I have seen that were double metaknight dittos is sickening.

the basic trend for doubles that i see is

1. double mk
2. double mk
3. mk + snake/lucario/wario
4. 2 non metas that probably played double meta on at least 2 occasions in the tourney.

it makes my stomach hurt.
never seen this o:
 

John12346

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Talking about what's going to happen is pointless. No one knows how this will turn out. All we can do now as normal users, pro-ban or anti-ban, is do our best, collect data if possible, and hope.

They'll come up with the best solution, which currently lies as an unknown to everyone right now. There are so many factors to consider right now...

But for now, maybe we should get back to the thread's topic at hand...
 

DMG

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The amount of tournament finals that I have seen that were double metaknight dittos is sickening.

the basic trend for doubles that i see is

1. double mk
2. double mk
3. mk + snake/lucario/wario
4. 2 non metas that probably played double meta on at least 2 occasions in the tourney.

it makes my stomach hurt.
It's not even Double MK specifically that people were upset over, but rather how having MK on a team was the single most limiting factor in realistic team partners the other guys could have without being put at a noticeable disadvantage. MK invalidates or comes close to completely ****** so many characters in doubles that it's no wonder most of the top 10 team combinations involve MK.

MK + Wario/Snake/Diddy/Lucario/G&W/MK/etc

Top non MK combinations would be like Snake/Diddy or near the end bucketing teams like Lucario G&W or G&W ZSS. Maybe G&W Wario, but that team is very bad at solidly approaching from the ground and has trouble if the other team has G&W counters. Something like Snake Diddy can beat that without even resorting to going MK because G&W is at a complete loss for who to go after, and Wario's not a very good "ice breaker" character in teams.

The other characters that are good in teams, are usually listed as good "when paired with MK".


Meanwhile at Smogon tierlist...
They Doesn't afraid to be ****ed over by their own community for banning basically all dragons, as we continue making more and more rules for MK's Safety over being banned.


/whythehellareyoucomparingpokemontoSSBB?

Pokemon is different though. Salamence and Garchomp IMO were questionable. Garchomp, if he didn't have that ability, probably would have been completely fine. But making the game over Sandstorm Control, having a counter to Garchomp, and rolling the dice to see if your counter would hit him, certainly didn't look very healthy for Pokemon. Salamence would have been fine if his only good set was CB or DD. But being able to play him on both spectrum and nearly or completely killing his traditional counters if you guessed wrong, was pretty dumb. Everything in Pokemon is counterable, the question then boils down to how hard or specific you have to go to counter it, and whether that's acceptable or not.


Criteria for Smash is definitely different from that.
 

Xnpio

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I feel as though Ness isn't going to drop due to FOW's 3rd place at WGF.
Fox should be going up also. But Idk. Trevonte did take out:
Tearbear
Tyrant
TKD

Also, Larry taking a big 2nd place. Falco for 3rd? :O
 

da K.I.D.

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Facedesk.

If ONE tournament dictated the tier placing of certain characters, falco would have been the best character in the game and olimar would have been top tier after apex.


@dmg.
I dont know for certain but I do want to say that I was one of the first ones to say that at least one mk is required on every team in doubles.
 

-LzR-

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I remember that... I was sure Falco would take Snakes place >_>

Now I realized I was riding the hypetrain. Falco should stay top5.
Without LGL I think he sucks.
 

etecoon

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there's only a handful of characters that aren't completely horrible against no LGL planking, and what tournaments exactly don't use an LGL? saying "falco sucks without an LGL" is completely pointless, that would be like me saying meta knight isn't very good on bridge of eldin
 

Fuujin

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Double posting in ur threads.
You guys should just main trash tier characters, when MK ***** you 80-20 you don't even need to worry about LGL, you just know you're going to lose regardless of how the MK plays.
Makes things so much simpler! :awesome:
 

Orion*

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I'd say MM me if you think I'm a scrub but you don't even go to tournaments, you're just the american version of BPC.

actually he has way more cred than you at this point LOL
wow.... ****
A ledge grab limit really is necessary, though only because of Meta Knight.

I'd much prefer it if we just bit the bullet and banned the character altogether.
while i think the game would be better without mk in terms of balance, i really dont think he's bannable yet :/
You main Diddy now?
That's awesome! Your character doesn't suck anymore!
-.-;
please main mk so i can say the same thing :awesome:
SFP has won money? from this game!?

I am legitimately shocked


but in all seriousness, MK should at least be banned from doubles. there's nearly no point in having a team without an MK on it, his overcentralization of doubles is far beyond what he does in singles and yet that's what everyone complains about XD
LOOOOOOOOOL

also yeah i agree w/ the 2nd part

also, DMG bringing out that salt anyone mentions mk ban status
 

King Funk

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Don't ban MK. This "no LGL theoretically makes MK broken" argument is getting old. If you really think so, then just put an LGL. We have one in Europe and it's fine so far.
 

Die !

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Don't ban MK. This "no LGL theoretically makes MK broken" argument is getting old. If you really think so, then just put an LGL. We have one in Europe and it's fine so far.
We have a lgl but it's not af if the MK does not win before the timer runs out
 

Steam

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I do agree that MK needs a doubles ban for obvious reasons.

Doubles would get so much more entertaining in general too... so many more team combinations would be legitimate
 

Tesh

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Why is the BBR discussing the banning of MK again? Shouldn't the BBRRC be doing that? I thought the old BBR's job was to post tier lists.
 

Tesh

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If people could admit he is broken in 1v2, that would make him extra broken in 1v1.

But lets talk about Fox. TKD went MK on trevonte and used Wario against DEHF. Perhaps this means Fox is super horrible?
 

King Funk

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If people could admit he is broken in 1v2, that would make him extra broken in 1v1.

But lets talk about Fox. TKD went MK on trevonte and used Wario against DEHF. Perhaps this means Fox is super horrible?
................................................ I'm not gonna go on this thread anymore.
 

Espy Rose

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Sounds to be like King Funk can't sense sarcasm. :p

At least, I hope that's sarcasm. So help me your god if it's not.
 

Savon

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I am pretty sure that was sarcasm. If it isn't sarcasm we can just ignore the contents of the post. Either way it is a win win.
 

Tesh

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I'm seriously serious. Fox must be super horrible if the best Fox main would rather get 3 stocked playing Wario, instead of using Fox. Just imagine how badly his Fox would have lost. Fox should be low tier, and Yoshi should take his spot in mid tier. He is like almost as good as Charizard, but he doesn't have squirtle to back him up.

Did you know Charizard can kill with Fair at like 40%? Fox can't do that. He has to wait until like 90% (MORE THAN TWICE AS MUCH) to have a remote chance of killing.

Did you know Ivysaur can kill Squirtle at 10%? Fox can't kill squirtle until like 70%(SEVEN TIMES AS MUCH).

Did you know Squirtle can jab lock with his ftilt, his nair, his bair and his jab? Fox doesn't have any moves to jab lock with.

So yes, I think Fox is bottom of mid tier at best.
 

Savon

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That trolling was actually pretty funny.

My opinion of Fox is still the same though. Fox has the potential to win huge tournaments. He has the tools to beat most of the higher tiered characters that one would generally see in a tournament setting. Fox's only real problem is that he gets owned by his falling speed which results in him having a few unwinnable MUs. Once you have a solid secondary to make up for this, you honestly have a great character who has the potential to go all the way.
 

Tesh

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Secondaries don't make Fox better at winning tournaments, they make the player better at winning tournaments.

However when you look at these "hard" counters, you gotta wonder how bad they really are. When has DEHF ever even lost to a pikachu. Fox and Falco don't get hard countered the way Wolf does. All their hard counters are characters that they can generally overwhelms in most areas except for a chaingrab or 2.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I once played FOW in a money match. We played for about five seconds. I grabbed him with Squirtle, and he said, "Oh, so you know about that," and forfeit the game.

Grab-releases on their own really invalidate Ness's bid as a decent character.
 

DMG

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................................................ I'm not gonna go on this thread anymore.
Morton Salt company thanks you for your contribution.

I once played FOW in a money match. We played for about five seconds. I grabbed him with Squirtle, and he said, "Oh, so you know about that," and forfeit the game.

Grab-releases on their own really invalidate Ness's bid as a decent character.

Well yeah. I saw what M2K did to FOW... it was some of the nastiest **** I have ever seen.
 

Neon!

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As a Doney kong main I'm sorry to admit that his placing is almost solely based on how gay his opponents play. If the infinite is allowed, yes ddd ***** dk but with the regular cg its almost even (most top dk's/atomsk agree with this) Dk does fine against Falco and olimar up close, but they are very difficult to approach and can easily hold on to a lead by camping. MK vs DK would be close to even if it wasnt for the tornado, it erases many of his approaching options and is simply too good at punishing his landing/ledge game. The rest of the cast is manageable and he goes even/nearly even with 2 top tiers (marth/snake)
 

da K.I.D.

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Well yeah. I saw what M2K did to FOW... it was some of the nastiest **** I have ever seen.

People waited on the stream for 5 hours to see that match.

The resulting **** and lolz were completely worth the wait.

Grab release to dash grab, to immediate grab break pushing both characters offstage to immediate mk down air stage spike.

It was so cash.
 
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@DMG: ZSS/G&W gets destroyed by double Meta, actually, but is otherwise a stupid broken team. A few months ago I watched in horror as Vinnie and Snakeee 3- and 4-stocked Will and Kirin like 3 times in a row, it was ridiculous. Will looked so frustrated, and rightfully so.

Then, they played Inui and Atomsk (double meta) and got stomped.
 

Z'zgashi

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@Neon: going nearly even with only two top tiers isnt amazing. Even yoshi does better than that.

@M2K vs. FOW: I fell asleep so I missed it :(

@Fox Trolling: Fox is balls. He's bottom tier.
 

TheReflexWonder

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People waited on the stream for 5 hours to see that match.

The resulting **** and lolz were completely worth the wait.

Grab release to dash grab, to immediate grab break pushing both characters offstage to immediate mk down air stage spike.

It was so cash.
And many characters can manage something similar. If people actually take advantage of this problem that Ness has, it makes succeeding with Ness in Singles virtually impossible.

As an aside, banning a running re-grab on Ness would be like banning Dedede\'s D-Throw chaingrab, which is really dumb.
 
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