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Creating our Guide - ATs

PSI.kick

Smash Lord
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wow can't believe i never realized that purple dthrow doesn't combo to anything. Are there any reliable throw combos at mid percents? i never know what to do when i've grabbed someone with a yellow or red. After about 60% should i just avoid grabbing except for gtfo's and blues/purples? i never really know what to do around those percents except for hit/run and camping...
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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After about 20 or so, nothing combos from a dthrow legitimately. Use it as a setup instead. Dthrow them and see what they do. Wait for them to do something. If they do, then punish. Don't try to treat it like a combo.
 

Jane

Smash Hero
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Ba Sing Se, EK
i guess thats what i mean by using dtilt at midpercents then. as a setup. i was thinking of the two essentially the same just one not being guaranteed.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Yeah, Combos, Strings and Setups are all different things. Dtilt combos well into "wait and see what they do", haha. It strings okay at mid percents but it's nothing to write home about.
 

PSI.kick

Smash Lord
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Getting a banana chucked at my face. WHISTLE!!
What's the ultimate combo? not the most useful, but i mean the most epic even if its extremely situational and near impossible. So far im thinkin something like this:

0%>Dthrow>usmash>fair>purple throw>purple throw>pivot regrab w/ blue>bthrow>death
 
E

emo dabuz

Guest
well, this is a combo i once landed on a marth in tourney (situational as ****, almost never see this opportunity)


positioning: the marth is 0% next to the left edge on BF, my pikmin lineup: red-blue-purple-purple-purple-red

i running grab the marth, dthrow (red)->fair (blue)->side b (purple0->side-b (purple)->side b (purple)


he was dead...very hyped moment xD

BTW, this was actually a true combo, and if a player wastes their jump trying to get out of the purple side-b string, a good portion of characters can't make it to the edge, most others are in an easy to gimp position because they will end up off stage quite far and very low due to low % triple purple side-b, only characters that will still be hard or not worth trying to gimp are mk, wario (if he has 1 minute or more charged fart+bike is not on stage), G&W, kirby, DDD
 

Jane

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upair is your best friend for juggling. however dont forget to throw in some nairs, and properly timed upsmashes into the mix.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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When it comes to juggling, Olimar's best at juggling while he is still on the ground. His best tools for juggling, imo, are grab and up smash. Up Air, Nair, Fsmash, Olimar has a lot of good juggling tools. However, I usually use Up Air and Nair to scare the opponent, not so much to connect. Reason being, committing too much with an aerial can oftentimes turn things against you. So it's best to stay safe so that you still have a chance of juggling with the aerial, but if you don't, you force them to try to attack or get defensive (air dodging perhaps) and punish that afterwards. That said, empty short hops are your best friend at baiting. Olimar's juggling ability is great, but you have to be careful. Don't commit too much.
 

IcyLight

Smash Lord
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Hocotate
umm, this is for the combos section, im pretty sure i made a combo/pseudo string thread somewhere, its fairly accurate and explains a lot of possible strings with pseudo followups :)
 

Noa.

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
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Orlando, Florida
Ok so Combos and Strings

I know there's a list somewhere that someone made of all the possibilities of different combos from dthrow.

But um, generally most combos and strings happen with dthrow. At the most basic level what you do is if the opponent decides to double jump, fair. If the opponent lands with an aerial, shieldgrab. If the opponent lands with airdodge, regrab. Those are the basic options and I really don't feel like going in depth with all the possibilities of what can happen out of dthrow.

Fair to double jump fair strings.

Incomplete nair is very useful to combo into usmash for a kill move, dsmash for damage and avoiding the staleness of usmash and jab which can lead to a grab or fsmash.

Ok that's all I'm writing about it for now since I need to go to school. Lets please finish this section and move on.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Yeah, most of this section is common knowledge that won't need a whole lot of discussion in the creation of it. What do people want. Switched the title to "Juggling", switching to that officially. See my last post about it.
 

Slain Avenger

Smash Ace
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In stages with platforms I stick mainly to up airs for juggling since opponents will probably try to land on platforms and get under. However, in a flat stage, Boost Pivot grabs and fsmash turn into my fav. tools like Hilt said. Also, fast fallen nairs to up smash on certain opponents are sexy.
 

Noa.

Smash Master
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Juggling

Oli is decent at juggling. I could say good but probably not great.

To set up a juggle use either usmash, dthrow, uthrow and nair.

The main way to juggle is to chase your opponent's landings with grab. Dashing or simply walking to properly position yourself. If they land with an aerial use either shieldgrab or pivot grab, depending on the situation. If they land with airdodge just grab. Dthrow or uthrow to reset.

Now depending on the opponent and positioning you can use uair for juggling. This just depends on the vulnerability of the character to uair. Peach is very good to uair juggle since uair can easily beat Peach's dair given the correct spacing. Snake is difficult to juggle due to his bair being so quick and powerful. Marth is easy to juggle due to his bad dair. Even uairing works against MK with proper spacing.

Grab is a much safer option but uair is very rewarding especially with the red pikmin.
 

RichBrown

Smash Master
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Santa Clarita
Hey how legit is dthrow-yellow/any fsmash/regrab on Falco? Or is it only good for a sexy mixup?

Oh on Snake if you grab him sorta near the ledge do dthrow-fullhop fair (don't fair right away but at the last moment before he can get out) and then dair (don't double jump). It might be a true combo lmao. The reason you shouldn't fair asap is because you wanna be as close to snake as possible for the dair. This is amazing. Also I like to apply this same concept of waiting on the fair and doing fullhop fair then another fair. And if they get back to the ground in time, make it look like you're gonna land in front of them but DI back at the last moment and grab.

Anyways, juggling. I like what Hilt said about empty shorthops. This has been really big for me lately. Just make sure you're taking the proper angle on the empty shorthop. Think of it this way: the chances of the empty shorthop baiting a favorable reaction (airdodge, attack) is directly proportionate to how much under them you are. If you're directly under them, they'll probably attack or airdodge. If you take too harsh an angle, an empty shorthop might even put you in a bad position. So make sure you're under them and not next to them.

Generally when you empty shorthop, your goal isn't even to hit them in the air, but to **** up theit landing. When people are at high percents they tend to shield more, so try to get to the spot they are landing and grab. If you're really good you can use the empty shorthop to bait the reaction and hit them with a smash attack.

Uair frame traps nicely. I can't really explain the spacing, just kinda follow them with uair, track their movement and try to follow where they are going, don't just jump at them and hope for the best, really lock in the placement of that uair, while keeping in mind how you're gonna land safely in case you miss (big mistake I see is Olimar goes for aerial followup, misses, then doesn't know how to land and make one of the following mistakes: land in front of the opponent (don't ever land in front of your opponent if you can avoid it) and either airdodge of incomplete nair, which gets shielded. And then if they do land, they'll roll or shield because they haven't thought past doing the upair. So make sure you just land away, and have your next action in mind in case the uair misses).

With pivotgrabs, what I've learned is to try to do them at the last moment once you think they've commited to how they are gonna land (particularly when you think they are gonna try to attack you). This is something I'm still working on, I always forget to pivot grab, I think I would win everytime if I applied this pivotgrab approach I just outlined haha. I'm working on internalizing this concept to I don't have to think about it when I do it.

Once you hit them far away, throw a pikmin and try to get them to airdodge. Works best with a white. Idk why but i ALWAYS get lucky when I hit them too far away, I seem to have a white next, and my aim ***** so I land it on them, so they'll attack it off and I'll try to run back to where they are.

...Yea I'm getting my oil changed and tired rotated right now and I needed something to do, so I posted this epic goldmine of information lol. Apply all this **** and every one of you will be ridiculously better haha.
 

Dnyce

Smash Master
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Mar 10, 2010
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to juggle... use moves like usmash or grab...


but if you use uair... then it's an aerial rave

 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Alright, next thing I want to talk about for the guide is cataloging our ATs. I'm going to try to get a video up of tarzaning and its uses, but before that, we should try to make a list of all of our usable ATs. Then we can come up with descriptions.

So far what comes to mind are:

Up Smash OOS
Instant Return
Tarzan
Rosa Parks
Pluck Canceled Dashes
Smash Canceled Plucks
Whistle Bouncing


Desync, Ghost Pikmin, Pikmin Rocket, Platform Canceling, and Whistle's Super Armor will not be listed in the section. I'm on the fence on Platform Canceling, though, and might change my mind. The others don't fit in an AT section. They would go in the glitch section, except for whistle's super armor which would go in whistle's description, since it's the main point in using the move.

Is there anything else that I'm missing?

Edit: Going to double post. I'll use the next post for those that want to know how to instant return in other threads, as it's a difficult technique to explain. It'll also be the rough draft for what I put in the guide.
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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Instant Return

When finding yourself against the ledge, Olimar as a character is limited. While you have the basic options of attack, rolling, jumping, or just doing the regular get up, Olimar doesn't have a whole lot of safe options outside of that. And those that he does have are oftentimes optional or rely on tricking the opponent. And while this, as well, isn't the most safe of options, it gives Olimar's limited selection one more tool, which is always good.

What is Instant Return?

Instant Return is using the boost from Olimar's UpB to both pop above the stage and tether the ledge at the same time. This causes Olimar to fall down to the stage, being pulled by the tether. When his feet hit the ground, the tether disappears and Olimar is able to perform any actions immediately. This can surprise a lot of opponents that are coming in to pressure you at the ledge, only to run into a grab or realize that they didn't make it in time as you escape safely.

This video was created by Llumys and gives an example of the technique.

How do I instant Return?

Instant Return is actually one of Olimar's more difficult ATs. In order to perform it, pull away from the ledge by holding back and slightly down. Wait a slight moment and then immediately hit diagonally up/forward and B. You have to wait a moment so that you don't just whiff the UpB and are helpless as you float above the stage. You'll for the most part have to mess around with it for awhile before you're able to do it consistently. It's probably Olimar's most difficult AT to get down.

When should I Instant Return?

With Olimar's lack of fast attacks, instant returning onto the stage right next to an opponent is oftentimes not the best idea. I personally have found it best to instant return when the opponent is running towards the ledge, and throw out a grab or forward smash in their path. Another situation is if they are spaced quite a bit from the ledge, expecting you to jump or roll. Be sparing in your usage of Instant Returning and save it for a surprise.
 

HaiWayne

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 18, 2010
Messages
70
Location
Santa Barbara
i could do it a few times but now i cant do it anymore.. i am not sure if i had tap jump on or off when i did it. is it possible to instant return with tap jump off?
 

DtJ Hilt

Little Lizard
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I find it a lot easier to do it with tap jump off, actually. It's probably the best way to do it, but I'm not sure.
 
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