Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance | Final Chapter

Beat! · Feb 14, 2011

Nabe said:
Why did you feel the need to say this?

@Ran: Zen isn't going anywhere toDay. Vote for OS.
@Beat: You've missed my 1401.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'll answer it next time I get on a computer (on a phone now). It's very hard to multi quote from a phone.

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

OS, I'm not doubting that you have attacked Zen. I'm showing that you failing to follow up on your CDubs read is a good example to show that your intent is not to catch scum. You are now defending yourself by saying that instead of attacking CDubs, you were attacking Zen, why not both? In #1431 you talk about how you don't have a one track mind, you should be able to follow up on multiple reads at once.

OS said:
Seeing as how Luxor and CDubs had no connections whatsoever, I can see what Luxor had to say. This could imply some sort of connection between the two of them, or perhaps Luxor could say something that CDubs would have to respond to? Maybe I had something planned after that question? Maybe I just wanted to know more about Luxor and CDubs both, and used that question as a springboard? Maybe a million things.

For about the third time OS, I'm not saying that no information can be gained in general. I'm ask you what you could gain from this question that helps you read CDubs specifically. You then go on to say you could find a connection between them, which is somewhat useless when the tell which seemed to initiate your read on CDubs was an indy tell. You then go off to list 'Maybes'

"Perhaps Luxor could say something that CDubs could respond to" If this is the case then why are you not asking CDubs yourself?

"Maybe I had something planned after that question" Did you? If so please explain it. If not then why say this as a defence?

"Maybe I just wanted to know more about Luxor and CDubs both, and used that question as a springboard" Did you? If so please detail what you can learn about CDubs. I don't doubt that you can learn about Luxor, or that you could learn about any possible connections (already pointed out why this is dumb) But please explain how this question can help you discern the alignment of CDubs. Please stop dancing around this question.

Raziek · Feb 14, 2011

Ranmaru said:
Raziek is not scummy to me for claiming early. He only is hurting town by letting scum know of his role without the NEED.

@Raziek: What do you think of scum possibly nk'ing you?

I'd be happy to eat an NK. I don't have a very useful role, and I've already claimed.

That said, I realize now I'd probably have been better off intentionally drawing an NK. While my claim gives Town less to worry about, it also means scum may not bother killing me off, if they believe my claim.

Why kill the agent when you could hit the doctor, after all.

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

You don't have a case, X1. You're repeating flawed questions. The fact you aren't competent enough to realize I don't have to ask every question about CDubs directly TO CDubs to answer is of no concern to me. Your posts are becoming more and more flacid as you realize you have no ground to stand on. You're second fiddle and will continue to be so. Get a real argument instead of nitpicking at things that aren't even true.

2-13-2011 11:16 a.m., your 1365, was three minutes AFTER I question Luxor about CDubs. This alone shows I have some thoughts on CDubs, but to you that is irrelevant.

Prior to this, I'm answering questions by Zen and GLG.

02-12-2011, 07:57 PM - my first post asking you if you "caught" what I saw. Something that, to me, is enough to lead to indie suspicion on CDubs.

15 hours and 19 minutes, MOST OF WHICH EVERYONE IN THIS GAME WAS SLEEPING.

You're calling me scummy because there was 15 hours and 19 minutes, most of which we were all asleep and/or at work, in which I didn't pressure CDubs? Is that your case?

****ing enlighten me X1, because if you don't pull something out that's actually legitimate I'm going to have to start wondering if you're the play for toDay. You can't have been oblivious to how silly this entire thing is.

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

I'm asking questions which you are repeatedly failing to answer. You have not explained what you can gain. Each question I ask you you wave away saying "Why can't you understand this" Each time I ask you how it helped you read CDubs you say "Are you suggesting gathering information isn't useful?" which is not an answer to my question

Furthermore, your data about time of posts is completely wrong. You are using false data to defend yourself.

The post was on the 9th of Febuary, NOT the 12th, so when you talk about 15 hours, its actually more like 94 hours, just over 4 full days. (Check timestamps on these two posts)

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12173112&postcount=1348

Ahem.

So now you're saying I should have been purusing CDubs instead of Zen?

What's wrong with me questioning Zen, as he's someone I and others have been looking at closely?

Go on, X1.

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

You saw the post that you quote there, and saw the tell long before that. This much is clear from this post.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12150491&postcount=1207

That shows you had suspicion on CDubs for the indie tell. Yet its not until 4 days later, after I call you out on it that you start questioning it.

Please stop intentionally misinterpreting my posts. I'm saying you should have been pursuing both of the them, something I make clear in my #1442. At no point did I ever suggest that you should NOT be looking at Zen.

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

So what exactly is the issue with me questioning Zen, and then questioning CDubs?

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

At a time when you had no strong scum reads, you decided to follow them up one at a time? Why? You've said you don't have a one track mind. You've said you've gathered information from several people. You've shown that you had time to post about things other than Zen, why not follow up your other scum read?

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

I was busy asking questions and having discussions with other people.

What have you done?

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

I also can't help but notice you didn't answer my question. Am I correct in assuming there's nothing wrong with that?

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

It should be clear what is wrong with it. You were not pursuing your scum reads when you should have been. You were capable of doing so, and had time to do so, but you didn't. As I've said before, if your intent was to find scum then you'd be following up on CDubs instead of just asking general questions.

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

X1-12 said:
It should be clear what is wrong with it. You were not pursuing your scum reads when you should have been. You were capable of doing so, and had time to do so, but you didn't. As I've said before, if your intent was to find scum then you'd be following up on CDubs instead of just asking general questions.

But I was pursuing Zen....

And said I had suspicion that CDubs was indie, not mafia...

and questioned others and answered their questions....

I'm starting to think you have a problem with me playing mafia instead of lurking.

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

Why were you only pursuing one of your scumreads? How is that in any way better for town than pursuing both? Once again you could pursue both but you settled with only pursuing one. That is a clear sign that your intent is NOT to catch scum.

And yes when I say scum I mean anti-town, not specifically mafia.

Nicholas1024 · Feb 14, 2011

I don't think the whole "OS didn't follow up on his CDubs read" thing has that much merit, simply because it's an indy read. If you're town, are you going to focus on indy's on D2, or are you going to focus on the main threat, mafia? Besides, mafia wants to find independents as well, so I think OS-scum would have followed up on a true indy-read.

Anyway, I think Zen is a good play for today.

@Zen
Two questions.

1) Why haven't you answered this post:

1) You know I'm a good player
2) You knew I was behind somewhat on the thread, thus making me an easier target
3) There were 3 different people who had already voiced dislike for me (Beatstick, GLG, Raziek), meaning you'd get a nice quick wagon going.
4) The other target for the day was Gord's playerslot, who was a rather weak player and VT. Plus, you'd already received heat for going after a weak player in early game (from Adum), so if you went full speed ahead on him, you'd look bad when he flipped town.
5) The case itself just wasn't satisfactory. The only legit point you made was me failing to deliver on the reread (basically inactivity), which isn't a surefire scumtell (else we'd have to lynch half the game!). That's just not enough reasoning for a townie, IMO.

And one more based on D2 events,

6) You said there was one scum between me and GLG, and didn't want to lynch GLG because you thought I was it. Well, GLG's been lynched and flipped town, by that logic shouldn't you be even more on my case toDay? But no, it's like you forgot all about that.

Additionally, why is your play this game so drastically different from your Mario Kart townplay?

Nicholas1024 · Feb 14, 2011

The post I was referring to was post #1033 by the way

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

Out for Vday.

X1-12 · Feb 14, 2011

I don't think the whole "OS didn't follow up on his CDubs read" thing has that much merit, simply because it's an indy read. If you're town, are you going to focus on indy's on D2, or are you going to focus on the main threat, mafia? Besides, mafia wants to find independents as well, so I think OS-scum would have followed up on a true indy-read.

This point is entirely debunked by the fact that he did follow it up after I asked him. If he felt it was not worth pursuing at all he'd not have done that.

Cdubs1987 · Feb 14, 2011

@X1. Your "reads" are a stretch. I don't think the way OS was, or wasn't, persuing things as you see them, implicates him as scum.

@ OS. Now I'm a little confused. You say I looked scummy for bringing up an abductor for no apparent reason. I explained this all in my 1384.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12177019&postcount=1384

About my posting, as I said before I am attempting to step my game up. If you are no longer addressing me, atm I will be posting just as frequently. I am choosing small periods of time to post, so for right now I will address what I see as most pertinent, which atm, is you questioning me. Later, I will finish posting about everyone.

Please respond to my 1384.

Now, to respond to your # 1440

To continue with my questioning with you CDubs, give me three players you think about be the independent. Narrow it down as much as you can.

no... and not just to be belligerent. A. just sayin there could be more than one independent. B. To not pull an adumbrodeus, I have some thoughts on who may be an independent. I do not want to say who I think may be an independent atm, I want to see how things progress without potential independents trying to tailor their play style based on people's (my) suspicions of them.

Cdubs1987 · Feb 14, 2011

Also, @X1. Am I persuing my reads on OS (consider the same time line in which you are saying OS has not been pursuing his reads on me)? If so how? If not, does this make me look scummy?

Also @ OS. I realize that you can pressure some one without voting. However, right now I don't see the pressure as high. My play style is very different than you. If you think people's claims against you have no merit, than you ignore them until forced to address them because there is pressure on you in the form of votes. I like to address concerns when they are voiced so as opposed to waiting to see if a wagon builds against me (perhaps with rare intended exception). I am not just responding to you because of "pressure", I am trying to post more, and your questioning is the most pertinent thing to comment on atm.

Overswarm · Feb 14, 2011

You better hope you didn't mention someone else was scummy before we started talking. X1 will vote for you for not pursuing your reads.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame · Feb 14, 2011

Back from V/LA, will be caught up and have a substantial post up by tomorrow.

#HBC | Red Ryu · Feb 15, 2011

You know, I'm glad people are calling out X1 on his poor play like I have been pointing for quite a long time already.

It wasn't until OS and others saw that unless he gets deeply caught on his plays he goes about his patterns showing off him as the "town leader" of sorts who will lead town to lynching the correct targets. Look at how he has been posting and his response to me before him and OS went at it,

X1-12 said:
Unvote
Vote: Overswarm

Nabe trust me, hop off zen for toDay, preferrably onto OS.

X1-12 said:
glg, Vote OS and I promise I will get Ran lynched on D3, deal?

So he ask's people for deals to get other people lynch. Who the hell makes deals in mafia like this, that looks mad scummy to me. By asking for deals he's essentially trying to get people onto a lynch which we have no guarantee he will follow up on.

Before he has his vote on Raziek then he jumps right on OS out of nowhere and demands people jump on via deals and demands.

No reasoning, no evidence, just him saying "Do it"

His responses to me,

X1-12 said:
I'm not trying to get reads, I'm trying to get Overswarm lynched.

X1-12 said:
Also can someone explain intent to RR

Well the first was obvious already, I immediately turned my vote on him when it was clear he had no intention of saying anything of worth regarding his reasoning. Even recently the only reason I see him posting more is because people are calling him on the BS he has been playing since D1.

Rajam · Feb 15, 2011

Just some random thoughts; I still need to catch up on the last two pages (40ppp; I skimmed last 2 pages mostly) and check on the events of the end of last Day as promised, but I've yet to find some time.

Disappointed at how Zen has disappeared from toDay compared to how active he was Day 1. After that discussion with Nabe he has fallen somewhat into inactivity. Wondering if he is just trying to let time advance so the focus on him would disappear. Zen I'd like to know who do you think is scum based on yerterDay events, the glg lynch, players on his wagon and players not on his wagon

Also kinda upset with Raziek and Nich because they've also disappeared after they've claimed. Nich I'm not willing to give him any town points because he claimed rblocked (if anything I'd say it's the opposite, but I'll just leave it as null). Raziek, if you say you want to be a mafia target, then be more vocal and scumhunt, because based on your claim and your play this game so far I doubt mafia would. Also you aren't confirmed town at all so don't play assuming like you're pseudo-confirmed town

Weird thing X1 said earlier on this Day Raziek is mostly town based on the claim and its timing, leaving him room for basically doing nothing. Aren't you mad at that X1? Anyways I'll be on your case in my next post after noticing some things by reading what BeatStick said.

Cdubs: I don't think this guy is mafia, but I don't like his talk about the night kills, specially with so little info about them. Too soon imo to talk about existence or not of SK, vigilante, abductor, etc. I think we need at least one scum flip to talk more about it.

Ranmaru: please quote the questions you've made me and I haven't responded yet NOT included in the last two pages (40ppp)

Beat! · Feb 15, 2011

@Nabe
I've gotten that impression from OS because he sometimes words his posts in ways like:

Overswarm said:
Correction:

FoS = Everyone.

You're playing a dangerous game, Zen. Remember what Cello did in FF6 Mafia? That's what you're doing right now.

Overswarm said:
Your actions dictate what you think in this game. Your words are only secondary. I have no reason to believe what you say you're doing either way. I can however look at the actions and say that you've made some pretty scummy decisions.

@town

Stop doing half-***** simple-minded gambits that make you think you're clever. I have no idea of X1 or Zen's alignment, but I know they're now both on my radar because they've both done something scummy, got called out on it, then responded "oh, I did that on purpose" and tried to explain how they'd get tons of information from it. That's a scum move. Scum make scummy statements and actions, get called out on it, then have an excuse. Town never has to be put in that decision unless they make a mistake and there are people doing is on PURPOSE.... or they are scum.

Quit with the gambits.

Overswarm said:
If you were Frozen Flame, myself, or Adumbrodeus, I could maaaaaybe see it. FF is pretty clever and both myself and adumbrodeus have been known to do gambits before. But we never actually state "just kidding guys" because that ruins the point of them and shifts the attention to us (except in this game, where Adumb has said things implying that he was pulling one, but I haven't looked much into that yet).

Overswarm said:
*narrows eyes*

This does come off as a bit arrogant after a while, but he's keeping a healthy activity level and he's being clear with his opinions. I don't really have a solid town read on him, but I don't think we should lynch him this early, because there's other players who are providing less content and are being more scummy (like Ran).

About Zen, he's been going from

Zεη said:
Nabe I don't see how that is important if you are town. I wanted beat to live because I think he is town.

to

Zεη said:
What? Why????

I'm about willing to join Nich in this wagon. You've been making so many points that just make no sense at all.

and then back again:

Zεη said:
@_____@

cdubs town
raz town
beat can be town
Ryu town, unless Ran somehow turned out to be town. Then could be scum.
x1 town.
rajam town.
Luxor town.
frozen bleh

Nabe bleh. Scum if nich scum.
Nich considering town. But scum if OS scum unless OS is indy abductor. Then Nich town.
OS scum.
Ran scum.

Lynch Ran or OS. Ran more so.

And apparently I've "betrayed" him.

As for the insults (no particular order);

4 min to class dumb ***.

people are being so ********.

Nabe stop role fishing, idiot. Why are you in this game? I'm not telling you **** until I need to.

Although IMO Zen has been stepping it up lately. I don't want him lynched toDay either.

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

Cdubs1987 said:
@X1. Your "reads" are a stretch. I don't think the way OS was, or wasn't, persuing things as you see them, implicates him as scum.

What townie reason is there to not pursue reads? None. Furthermore he firstly tried to justify himself by saying that he did follow up on his reads, when I prove him wrong he uses false meta-data to show it was only 15 hours when he wasn't pursuing them. I show his data is false and thus his point is untrue and then he tries to justify his actions by saying "There's nothing wrong with following up reads one at a time"

Cdubs1987 said:
Also, @X1. Am I persuing my reads on OS (consider the same time line in which you are saying OS has not been pursuing his reads on me)? If so how? If not, does this make me look scummy?

I thought I had made this clear, I'm saying that its clear from Overswarm's other posts that he had time to, and was capable of following up his reads - but he chose not to. You on the other hand have been legitimately busy iirc and have posted little.

@Red Ryu: The things you just attacked me for don't even apply any more. I start playing properly and give reasoning and now you are still brining stuff up from ages ago. People saw it the first time that you posted it. Also pretty sure I've asked you this before but explain why specific actions are scummy. Think about the intent a player has when they make the posts. Think what reasons the player could have to do it as town, then think what reasons they could have to do it as scum. Saying 'trying to make deals is mad scummy' isn't enough.

Overswarm · Feb 15, 2011

Does no one else see the hilarity in the above post? XD

Let's assume for a moment that X1's case is legitimate. It isn't, but let's play make believe.

Let's assume that I'm scummy because I didn't originally follow up on CDubs in the way X1 considers proper.

According to X1, I DID do that... just not until after he said something.

So why's he still bringing it up?

After all:

x1 said:
The things you just attacked me for don't even apply any more. I start playing properly and give reasoning and now you are still brining stuff up from ages ago. People saw it the first time that you posted it. Also pretty sure I've asked you this before but explain why specific actions are scummy. Think about the intent a player has when they make the posts. Think what reasons the player could have to do it as town, then think what reasons they could have to do it as scum. Saying 'trying to make deals is mad scummy' isn't enough.

dumb or scum with X1, as always

CDubs, do you think X1 is scum or town?

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

OS its more scummy that you started doing so after I asked you, it shows that you want to look town, not that you want to catch scum.

You are misinterpreting what I am saying to RR, I'm telling him to post original content - something new, and that his content should include better scumhunting, i.e looking at intent.

Luxor · Feb 15, 2011

X1-12 said:
What townie reason is there to not pursue reads?

If it's not pragmatic at the time I don't see saving someone for later as an issue tbh.

ranmaru · Feb 15, 2011

BeatStick said:
As for Zen, his entire D2 play has been a mixture of insults and random turn-arounds with his scum/town-reads. Most of his posts D2 comes off as weird to me, and I'm not sure whe're he's getting at. Still, he's promised to explain a lot after an eventual Ran lynch toDay, and he seems to be hinting a PR, so I don't think he's the play toDay. If Ran is scum we shouldn't lynch him at all imo.

I didn't like his early play but I liked when he was asking me questions. I mean, it seemed genuine intent to garner info about things I haven't talked about yet. But that's about it. Everything else seems a tad sketchy.

BeatStick said:
Ranscum = Looking at X1 and/or OS (I don't see x1/os-scum team. At all. It's only one of them most likely).

Rantown = Prolly Zenscum.
Possibly Luxorscum. Maybe Rajamscum. Not sure, but will be looking at them too.

I could see a x1/os team. I'd rather lynch X1 first.

I agree. Luxor can be scum, along with you. Not Rajam. I think he was legit pushing cases on everyone.

BeatStick said:
Ran, for gods sake, would you please stop claiming what you think was my reasons for voting someone. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. You keep trying to discredit my votes. My vote on Glyph was NOT me "blindly following Zen". I've already explained that I didn't like Glyphs responses.
If you're wondering about some of my votes, then ask. Don't say "Beat voted player X because blah blah blah" when it's not true.

Make up your mind, lol. Stop contradicting yourself.

Lynch Ran.

It wasn't? You said "Also, what Zen said" in the very post you voted Glyph. Luxor joined along to fill the wagon with gas for mileage. That was your term, correct?

No, that wasn't a contradiction. I meant that it would be good if you guys didn't blindly follow him, even though you did in my eyes.

This is quotes in order from page 10 to page 11. Nothing here states your reason about voting Glyph. Luxor didn't state a reason to follow along either, but he did make a small case on Glyph before hand, while you didn't. You were on OS.

======================================
UOTE=BeatStick;12032774]You've become really active, you provide great reasoning, and you acknowledge your mistakes. Can't speak for anyone else, but you're steadily moving up on my town-o-meter

.

What do you think about OS?[/QUOTE]

Luxor said:
Epic post by Rajam. I'm gonna have to take notes.

Zεη said:
Vote: Glyph

I could see

Glyph-Vult
Glyph-Ryu
Not Glyph-x1

x1 just thinks Glyph is town from meta. And x1 is town so he can't be Glyph's scumbuddy (x1 town really should be taken as fact especially if I'm not around in the future).

I could also see Glyph-OS

^

I'm going to be sad if you actually turn out to be town this game.

I don't believe x1 being town. Ryu I don't believe is scum. Vult, is dead.

So that would leave OS. What do you think of him, Zen?

BeatStick said:
Vote: Glyph

Very good post by rajam.

Also, what Zen said.

What Zen said? Can you be a little more elaborate?

Luxor said:
unvote vote: Glyph

I'm gonna get some mileage outta my vote.

Which of the pairings Zen made do you think make sense? Why?

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

@Luxor: He made a conscious decision not to pursue it, why? He had time to pursue it and was capable of doing so.

ranmaru · Feb 15, 2011

@Rajam: I asked you why you thought OS might have avoided speaking about me when you asked him multiple times.

@Nabe: I'm ok with OS going, but only because of the OS/X1 interactions. What do you think OS flipping scum would mean?

Give me a reason to get off of X1 and to OS. I'll let you know what I think.

X1: Don't think we will forget your past actions, X1. You can't just handwave that.

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

Ranmaru....

Explain how my past actions were scummy, don't just say they were, explain it. Talk about intent. I've taught you about intent in Newbie 11 so don't play dumb

Overswarm · Feb 15, 2011

X1, in case you haven't noticed, everyone has had the same idea about your posts on me except for you.

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

OS said:
X1, in case you haven't noticed, everyone has had the same idea about your posts on me except for you.

This statement is false. Three or four people have questioned my case. You have flatly denied it and used false data to defend against it. That's not everyone, nor are those who have commented on it all of the same opinion

Overswarm · Feb 15, 2011

Does anyone here think X1's "you didn't pressure CDubs in the way I want until after I said something" makes me scum?

Anybody?

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

Its not a case of pressuring him 'the way I want' its a case of pressuring him at all. This is the third or fourth time you've twisted my argument this game.

Overswarm · Feb 15, 2011

X1-12 said:
Its not a case of pressuring him 'the way I want' its a case of pressuring him at all. This is the third or fourth time you've twisted my argument this game.

How is that twisting?

X1-12 · Feb 15, 2011

Overswarm said:
Does anyone here think X1's "you didn't pressure CDubs in the way I want until after I said something" makes me scum?

Anybody?

You are telling people this is what I said. That's not what I said.

Its twisting and changing the argument.

ranmaru · Feb 15, 2011

Could you state what you said, X1, so that we can see what the true message was again?

How do you feel it would change the argument if it were stated like OS presented it?

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