Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Intro:
One thing that has always kinda bothered me is how people complain about the lack of technical depth in this game, when nobody actually bothers to do the things we already know about because they are too difficult. Just look at platform canceling. Most of you aren't doing this when it isn't even that hard and is obviously useful, but I digress.
Lets look back at this discovery Phanna made a long time ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c
Here is the thread for it: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162220
I mean... just watch the video. If you aren't seeing tons of utilities for this, there's something wrong with you. This video was made almost THREE years ago, we all know its useful. There's just one problem, besides with Fsmash or just pivot dashes, its just too hard for 99% of people.
It's actually pretty damn easy with Fsmash and pivot dashes, and the sad thing is only about 3 or less percent of tournament level players actually use it.
Most of you have already seen it done with fsmash by now. Mr. R did it in Messiah which everyone and their mother has seen, and Leon is known for it as well. Here are some examples:
Leon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=127f_dF-BwI (0:51)
Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8ZeJwLxwk (1:22)
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Mechanics:
I'll use Marth as my example.
Marth has a very unique dash in that it is very long (distance wise), very fast, and has a significantly early pivot point (explained below). These characteristics all happen to make pivoting a very useful tool for Marth. So for all my Marth mains out here, make sure to pay extra attention to this
.
A pivot point is the frame window in a dash where the character can receive inputs for a fox trot. Marths starts at frame 15 and ends something like 15 frames later. It's pretty large window.
So let's say while you're inside this pivot point, you decide to input another dash in the same direction. The result is a fox trot. From the point that the fox trot starts, you have a few options. You can let the fox trot continue, you can input a fsmash in either direction, or you can input a backwards dash. The latter two options must be inputted within roughly 5 frames of the fox trot starting.
The first two options (letting the fox trot continue and fsmashing) are pretty self-explanatory. You'll either continue to run forward or stop at the end of the dash and fsmash in either direction.
The last option, inputting a backwards dash, is where things get a little bit tricky. What usually happens when someone does this is a pivot dash. A pivot dash is just a dash followed by a dash in the opposite direction. Pivot dashes can be linked together to create something very similar to a melee dashdance. Pivot dashing is very useful in its own right, and people should definitely be using this more. I personally use it all the time.
Now, lets get to some of the things shown in the first video I linked to. Lets say during the pivot point, you input a foxtrot and a backwards dash, and within TWO frames of inputting that backwards dash, reset the analog to a neutral position. What happens is instead of doing a pivot dash, your character will simply turn around and stand in place. This is called a TRUE PIVOT. From this point you are simply standing and can do ANYTHING. That is how phanna is able to jab, dsmash, dtilt, utilt, ftilt, taunt, etc in that video.
As I said earlier, this is insanely hard to do. The only player I've met who can do it with any consistency is Kadaj, so shoutouts to him. But for the rest of us normal people, we need an easier way.
NEW INFORMATION:
So thats when I got thinking about C-stick mechanics. Let's say I press the c-stick to the right. What inputs is the game taking when I do this? No matter WHAT position my character is in, the game will take the following inputs:
1.) Disregard whatever inputs are being made on the left analog.
2.) Input the direction I moved the c-stick in + the A Button.
During step one, the analog is treated as if it is in neutral position regardless of where the analog actually is. So with that in mind, lets go back to true pivots.
Let's say I just dashed an am at Marth's pivot point. I'll then input a foxtrot and immediately afterward input the following two commands:
-Backwards Dash
-Dsmash via C-stick WITHIN TWO FRAMES AFTER (so almost at the same time)
The result of this will be a dash > turnaround d-smash. Why does this work? When you push the c-stick down after inputting the backwards dash, the game treats it as if you reset the analog to neutral (thus causing a true pivot) and then immediately inputted a dsmash.
Now, to open up your options even more, you can set your C-Stick to "Attack" rather than "Smash." This will allow you to, with basically the exact same procedure (besides the direction in which you move the c-stick) do true pivots with jabs, ftilt, dtilt, and utilt. Setting it to attack, however, will take away your ability to do true pivot dsmashes, so choose wisely.
So here is a simple command list of everything we've learned so far:
All inputs assume you are facing right and your initial dash will be to the right.
Normal Controls
Foxt Trot: Right > Right during pivot point
Pivot Dash: Right > Right during pivot point > Left immediately after
Dash > Fsmash: Right > Right + C-stick in either direction during pivot point
True Pivot: Right > Right during pivot point > Left immediately after > analog back to neutral within 2 frames
Dash > Reverse Dsmash (True Pivot Dsmash): Right > Right during pivot point> Left immediately after > D-smash via C-stick immediately between one and two frames after
C-stick Set to Attack
Dash > Fsmash: Right > Right + A during pivot point
Dash > Reverse Fsmash: Right > Right During pivot point > left + A immediately after
Dash > Reverse Dtilt: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > dtilt via c-stick down immediately between one and two frames after
Dash > Reverse Ftilt: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > ftilt via c-stick left immediately between one and two frames after
Dash > Reverse Utilt: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > utilt via c-stick up immediately between one and two frames after
Dash > Reverse Jab: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > jab via c-stick right immediately between one and two frames after
So here is a video of me doing all of this using the new, easier (yet still pretty difficult) method. As well as some true pivots and dash > fsmash's that phanna discovered before me.
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9eYjgR9g1o
Sorry if the threads a bit messy, just post any questions or comments here.
One thing that has always kinda bothered me is how people complain about the lack of technical depth in this game, when nobody actually bothers to do the things we already know about because they are too difficult. Just look at platform canceling. Most of you aren't doing this when it isn't even that hard and is obviously useful, but I digress.
Lets look back at this discovery Phanna made a long time ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4tmLsflA_c
Here is the thread for it: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162220
I mean... just watch the video. If you aren't seeing tons of utilities for this, there's something wrong with you. This video was made almost THREE years ago, we all know its useful. There's just one problem, besides with Fsmash or just pivot dashes, its just too hard for 99% of people.
It's actually pretty damn easy with Fsmash and pivot dashes, and the sad thing is only about 3 or less percent of tournament level players actually use it.
Most of you have already seen it done with fsmash by now. Mr. R did it in Messiah which everyone and their mother has seen, and Leon is known for it as well. Here are some examples:
Leon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=127f_dF-BwI (0:51)
Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8ZeJwLxwk (1:22)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Mechanics:
I'll use Marth as my example.
Marth has a very unique dash in that it is very long (distance wise), very fast, and has a significantly early pivot point (explained below). These characteristics all happen to make pivoting a very useful tool for Marth. So for all my Marth mains out here, make sure to pay extra attention to this
.A pivot point is the frame window in a dash where the character can receive inputs for a fox trot. Marths starts at frame 15 and ends something like 15 frames later. It's pretty large window.
So let's say while you're inside this pivot point, you decide to input another dash in the same direction. The result is a fox trot. From the point that the fox trot starts, you have a few options. You can let the fox trot continue, you can input a fsmash in either direction, or you can input a backwards dash. The latter two options must be inputted within roughly 5 frames of the fox trot starting.
The first two options (letting the fox trot continue and fsmashing) are pretty self-explanatory. You'll either continue to run forward or stop at the end of the dash and fsmash in either direction.
The last option, inputting a backwards dash, is where things get a little bit tricky. What usually happens when someone does this is a pivot dash. A pivot dash is just a dash followed by a dash in the opposite direction. Pivot dashes can be linked together to create something very similar to a melee dashdance. Pivot dashing is very useful in its own right, and people should definitely be using this more. I personally use it all the time.
Now, lets get to some of the things shown in the first video I linked to. Lets say during the pivot point, you input a foxtrot and a backwards dash, and within TWO frames of inputting that backwards dash, reset the analog to a neutral position. What happens is instead of doing a pivot dash, your character will simply turn around and stand in place. This is called a TRUE PIVOT. From this point you are simply standing and can do ANYTHING. That is how phanna is able to jab, dsmash, dtilt, utilt, ftilt, taunt, etc in that video.
As I said earlier, this is insanely hard to do. The only player I've met who can do it with any consistency is Kadaj, so shoutouts to him. But for the rest of us normal people, we need an easier way.
NEW INFORMATION:
So thats when I got thinking about C-stick mechanics. Let's say I press the c-stick to the right. What inputs is the game taking when I do this? No matter WHAT position my character is in, the game will take the following inputs:
1.) Disregard whatever inputs are being made on the left analog.
2.) Input the direction I moved the c-stick in + the A Button.
During step one, the analog is treated as if it is in neutral position regardless of where the analog actually is. So with that in mind, lets go back to true pivots.
Let's say I just dashed an am at Marth's pivot point. I'll then input a foxtrot and immediately afterward input the following two commands:
-Backwards Dash
-Dsmash via C-stick WITHIN TWO FRAMES AFTER (so almost at the same time)
The result of this will be a dash > turnaround d-smash. Why does this work? When you push the c-stick down after inputting the backwards dash, the game treats it as if you reset the analog to neutral (thus causing a true pivot) and then immediately inputted a dsmash.
Now, to open up your options even more, you can set your C-Stick to "Attack" rather than "Smash." This will allow you to, with basically the exact same procedure (besides the direction in which you move the c-stick) do true pivots with jabs, ftilt, dtilt, and utilt. Setting it to attack, however, will take away your ability to do true pivot dsmashes, so choose wisely.
So here is a simple command list of everything we've learned so far:
All inputs assume you are facing right and your initial dash will be to the right.
Normal Controls
Foxt Trot: Right > Right during pivot point
Pivot Dash: Right > Right during pivot point > Left immediately after
Dash > Fsmash: Right > Right + C-stick in either direction during pivot point
True Pivot: Right > Right during pivot point > Left immediately after > analog back to neutral within 2 frames
Dash > Reverse Dsmash (True Pivot Dsmash): Right > Right during pivot point> Left immediately after > D-smash via C-stick immediately between one and two frames after
C-stick Set to Attack
Dash > Fsmash: Right > Right + A during pivot point
Dash > Reverse Fsmash: Right > Right During pivot point > left + A immediately after
Dash > Reverse Dtilt: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > dtilt via c-stick down immediately between one and two frames after
Dash > Reverse Ftilt: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > ftilt via c-stick left immediately between one and two frames after
Dash > Reverse Utilt: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > utilt via c-stick up immediately between one and two frames after
Dash > Reverse Jab: Right > Right During pivot point > left immediately after > jab via c-stick right immediately between one and two frames after
So here is a video of me doing all of this using the new, easier (yet still pretty difficult) method. As well as some true pivots and dash > fsmash's that phanna discovered before me.
Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9eYjgR9g1o
Sorry if the threads a bit messy, just post any questions or comments here.
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