Pound Prizes

Renth · Mar 9, 2011

MASAHIROx said:
Ranting ****** .

Thank you for not helping anything at all, just spamming the thread with more sense less slander. You're a champion I'm glad your ego is so big you can run your mouth all over an internet forum. Please you are the most insightful person i've ever heard!

I cannot wait what more you have to say about this matter. Stupid prick -- I've been banned from these forums for saying less good job mods keeping up on this.

I demand global forum rules be applied to every thread, just because people feel the need to run their mouths on a subject does not give them the right to break the rules. Including myself I want an infraction for calling him a stupid prick.

rhan said:
Clearing his name is different then actually paying people what is owed. He shouldn't approach anyone that this doesn't directly effect. To be blunt about it; He doesn't have to do anything except pay his debts.

The way he's going about paying these debts I see wrong but there isn't anything we can do about it. The way he perceives using the collected money to pay off everything then distributing the leftovers to the tourney winners is quite immoral. He shouldn't have hosted such an event if he already didn't have the funds or plan out how much each person needed to pay for venue fee.

No one is perfect we all make mistakes man, he made one and is paying the price. If you were in his position how would you feel. This is in fact a matter for him and the winners and none of anyone elses business I only said other wise because the speculations have gotten so out of control I fear Plank will have a bad name he cannot erase

CY · Mar 9, 2011

vVv ChiboSempai said:
This is definitely a possibility, but why wouldn't plank mention... oh btw there was an additional $5,000 i paid before lol. kind of hard to forget something like that, and it would clear up everything. and tbh if the venue cost approx $20,000 and Plank went ahead and hosted a smash tournament that cost $20,000 he is absolutely insane. And if he hosted a smash tournament that cost $20,000 with a $20-$35 (by this i mean it's very little for such a high venue price) venue fee and a handfull of discounts, plank is out of his freicken mind and I would not expect this from someone who has hosted nationals previously.

this is also something that hasn't been mentioned much. I'm sure plank knew that prize money would be tight considering how much money it costs to pay off the venue. I wonder how much money the winners would of got even if the tournament was a little more successful? It just seems like overall the hotel was a recipe for disaster with how expensive it was. funny thing is there is no mention of this on the tournament OP :\

tarheeljks · Mar 9, 2011

Renth said:
It's a shame a man has to show off his status report just to defend himself against friends he considered family. Remember how much Plank has done for the community as a whole the sooner we stop the slander the better. I understand people feel the need to vent whenever the matter doesn't concern them in any way, these threads should be removed and the matter should be dealt with those who are involved. Putting this on display and brainless internet zombies get a say in things that aren't their business always leads to a lot of unnecessary hate, lies, and rumors. Much like people saying Plank was taking the money and moving to California.

No one has that answer but Plank himself and so long every one in the community is knocking down his door with a torch and pitch fork, I don't see him rushing in to tell everyone every detail.

i feel bad for the guy too,but it is inconsistent to cite family/community and then tell people not to involve themselves unless directly affected. why can the community support plank, but not those owed? fwiw, i'm not defending those who have their pitchforks in hand, but too many people are saying that the only thing people should say to plank is "thanks for the hard work, sorry it didn't work out" (not referring to you specifically). too much of this thread has been people arguing back and forth from opposite ends of the spectrum. some people are mad and want blood, some feel bad and want it to go away. both want it resolved and are channeling too much of a particular emotion.

the matter of slander/accusations of theft are unfortunate and need to stop b/c they only obfuscate the major issue, as does the idea that nothing can be done so plank should be left alone. chibo sempai made a cursory evaluation of the financial statements and there appears to be money unaccounted for-- that should be the main point of discussion

edit: to the extent that we call ourselves a community this affects us all, so i don't agree that people should be dissuaded from speaking up. they should simply refrain from being belligerent. that said i also feel that the posts implying he is not in the wrong due to lack of a binding contract are equally unproductive

Renth · Mar 9, 2011

tarheeljks said:
i feel bad for the guy too,but it is consistent to cite family/community and then tell people not to involve themselves unless directly affected. why can the community support plank, but not those owed? fwiw, i'm not defending those who have their pitchforks in hand, but too many people are saying that the only thing people should say to plank is "thanks for the hard work, sorry it didn't work out" (not referring to you specifically). too much of this thread has been people arguing back and forth from opposite ends of the spectrum. some people are mad and want blood, some feel bad and want it to go away. both want it resolved and are channeling too much of a particular emotion.

the matter of slander/accusations of theft are unfortunate and need to stop b/c they only obfuscate the major issue, as does the idea that nothing can be done so plank should be left alone. chibo sempai made a cursory evaluation of the financial statements and there appears to be money unaccounted for-- that should be the main point of discussion

I agree if there is any kind of discussion to be had in this thread it should be the focus of the thread. That entitles what is posted on the first page in planks defense, Chibo I'm sorry for taking away from your observation and I hope you get your answers soon. I admit I may have flown off the handle a little bit but I could not stand by and let a friend take this much weight on his shoulders alone. I will calm myself and take things easy so long every one else doesn't decide to get on the hate train again. I apologize.

rhan · Mar 9, 2011

Renth said:
No one is perfect we all make mistakes man, he made one and is paying the price. If you were in his position how would you feel. This is in fact a matter for him and the winners and none of anyone elses business I only said other wise because the speculations have gotten so out of control I fear Plank will have a bad name he cannot erase

Honestly I wouldn't have let it get out of hand like this.

I think if he would have just canceled the event probably about 3 months in advance everything would have been much better for everyone. People just dislike him for about a week or two then become chill with him again. Instead of host even, go in debt, pay no one, hated amongst a giant group of people for probably a lifetime.

I don't regret my decision on still going to Pound. I just regret how much everyone has forked out for such a event for almost absolutely nothing.

To be frank I quit my job to come to this event (LOL I was going to quit there soon anyway but if I knew that this wasn't going to happen or that would have turned out like this.. I would have at least finished working through the month of January). So now after going into this event with a grand in my savings, I now have about 200 bucks and that's pretty much to pay off my phone bill for a couple of months.

Edit: But that's beside the point. I had 2 rooms so that's where a big chunk of the money went. I charged the people 20 bucks a night for the nights they stayed. I didn't go into make money out of this I just wanted people to pay their share (Which they did. <3 you guys <3). But they money they gave me really just went to my meals for the weekend.

The King · Mar 9, 2011

I already posted exactly how i feel about the situation in the "Pound 5" thread in the tourney discussion, so I won't get into it here. I just wanted to add a couple pieces of information concerning the calculations for missing funds.

While you're figuring only the difference of ((entry fee + venue fee) - (hotel fees incurred) = remaining funds), you're forgetting about his other expenses. Primarily:

--Paypal percentage cuts from all processed funds (approximately 2.5% of all money through paypal, or about $400)
-Door security (OP description mentioned it, paying $10 an hour throughout the event)
-$15 refund per full setup brought by the community (no idea how many setups the community brought, though, or even if he actually refunded people)
-The price of purchasing all the TV's/Cubes which he supposedly stockpiled (The cached thread stated at the time that he had 30 tv's & 15 cubes so far, i'm sure even those weren't cheap.)
-Webhosting costs for his preregistration page, if any.
-He apparently hired an 8-person staff to help run the pools/brackets, at the cost of $50 a person

And the fact that your venue fee calculation is already an overestimate, seeing as how there were not 394 individuals at the tournament but rather that is just a combined number of entry-fee sources.

Total everything up, and the "missing funds" figure really starts to shrink fast, lol.

MASAHIROx · Mar 9, 2011

Chill out.

I gave good points about how I feel about the situation.
All valid.

None of them attacking you.

Forget respect, experience, or repuatation.
Jon owes money to his friends. He's not gonna pay it.
That's ****ed up and shady. No way around it.

I can't believe people are standing up for this kid.
He moved out of the state for a reason.

SmokeMaxX · Mar 9, 2011

Well, I'll be honest. I didn't read through all ~20 pages. In fact, I'm not even a competitive Smasher. I'm a Street Fighter/Marvel player. I had no interest in attending Pound V and I only knew of it because I have friends that play Smash. That being said, I AM a Tournament Organizer. In fact, I'm the Tournament Organizer for the largest Fighting Game Tournament in Arkansas as well as one of the largest tournaments in the South. Granted, it's nowhere near the scale of Pound V, but I do truly hope to get my A.R.K. III Tournament (April 2, 2011!) to that level one day, with the help of the Smash community of course.

Now, knowing all that I have said above, what has driven me to post on this thread? Plank is a popular tournament organizer. Even with very little knowledge of Smash Tournaments, I have heard of him as a tournament organizer. I know he's a smart guy, a good guy, and probably one of the better tournament organizers in the Smash scene.

That being said, he ****ed up. Big time. He very clearly stated a venue fee and a tournament fee in the official Pound V thread. Looking through the OP of the Pound V thread, he never clearly stated WHAT the prize distribution was, which- if noone asked prior to the tournament, is partially the fault of attendees for not asking. However, it's moreso HIS fault since it is implied at basically every tournament you attend that tournament fees are returned 100% to tournament winners.

I know many of you have close to zero tournament organizing experience. I sympathize with Plank because I know that it's not easy AND I know that he probably tried his hardest to make his event as big as possible. I do the same thing. That being said, he needed to realize that it was HIS responsibility to make his event successful no matter what. His decisions demanded actions and his actions had consequences. Every decision I make as a tournament organizer, I think long and hard. I discuss it with other organizers and I discuss it with the community. Would I like the best possible venue? Yes, but not at the cost of going in the red. Even if there's the possibility of going in the red, I either negotiate or stay clear of that venue. It's not to say that I'm trying to turn a profit from the event, but let's be 100% realistic: NO Tournament Organizer wants to put forth the effort it takes to run a huge event, not be able to play games at his own tournament, and then have to pay for it all on top of all that.

Plank is a veteran TO so I don't feel like I need to say this, but for others- start small and build big. I've seen too many tournaments FAIL because they had too big of a dream and ended up beyond being in debt. Also, take full responsibility at your own tournament. I make it very clear for my tournament that entrance fee goes towards venue, free food, free drinks, and unlimited casuals. 100% of the tournament fee goes back to the winners of the tournament. I would NEVER take away money from the winners and use it as if it was my own discretionary fund. As the tournament organizer, it is MY responsibility to make sure that I don't get in the red- and all this HAS to be covered by venue fees. The tournament pot is 100% the property of the winners. Any TO that takes money out of that without prior notice will never be taken seriously as a TO again. It's unfortunate that that's the case with Plank, but as I saw on the Pound V thread, he was planning on this being the last one anyway.

BigDaddy4 · Mar 9, 2011

This community has fallen so hard. Why would some of you guys defend someone who pretty much gave the winners the finger and seems like he won't pay up? Unbelievable.

Renth · Mar 9, 2011

BigDaddy4 said:
This community has fallen so hard. Why would some of you guys defend someone who pretty much gave the winners the finger and seems like he won't pay up? Unbelievable.

Why do people like you keep posting here saying the same thing over and over again, keep on the focus of the thread which is the prices and how he made a mistake not how everyone claims he intentionally screwed over an entire community. Thanks for jumping on the bandwagon, for the millionth time the matter is between Plank and the winners and anyone who wants to discuss the figures that chibo pointed out.

Roller · Mar 9, 2011

This community has fallen so hard. Why would some of you guys defend someone who pretty much gave the winners the finger and seems like he won't pay up? Unbelievable.

Albert. · Mar 9, 2011

I'm about to put 3 and Laijin on ignore and I suggest that the rest of you do the same. They are textbook definition contrarians.

Renth said:
Why do people like you keep posting here saying the same thing over and over again, keep on the focus of the thread which is the prices and how he made a mistake not how everyone claims he intentionally screwed over an entire community. Thanks for jumping on the bandwagon, for the millionth time the matter is between Plank and the winners and anyone who wants to discuss the figures that chibo pointed out.

The reason people keep posting their dismay at the adamant plank supporters/justifiers/legal loopholers is because it is dismaying.

...

Pi · Mar 9, 2011

Albert. said:
I'm about to put 3 and Laijin on ignore and I suggest that the rest of you do the same. They are textbook definition contrarians.

The reason people keep posting their dismay at the adamant plank supporters/justifiers/legal loopholers is because it is dismaying.

...

Have you done it yet or do you need some more incentive?

'textbook definition' pretty redundant bro, might wanna chill out w/ those adjectives save your fingers some work

as far as assuming that the stance I took was because it was the 'underdog' stance, you are incorrect. I took the stance I did because from a legal standpoint any case anyone could attempt to make was weak, so the prospect of suing was a bit naive on the part of the players.

As well as the fact that the notion to sue was brought up less than a day after plank announced the trouble w/ the hotel and funds even though he hadn't said that prizes would not be distributed (even though now we know that is probably the case).

On top of that, the community (some, not all) chose too blatantly ignore/forget all the work Plank had done not only hosting P5 but the 3 previous pounds, all of which had no complaints or problems surrounding the payouts. And instead quickly labeled him as a crook, claiming he pocketed the money for his fanciful trip to CA. Stating time and time again that he stole money that was not his, and that he deserves to be jailed, or in debt up to his eye balls, or this or that.

The stance I took on this matter is one that I'm morally aligned with. I do believe that plank messed up, financially he overstepped his bounds. He put his faith in the wrong community, and morally he was forced to make the unfavorable decision to use money initially intended to be prize money to first and foremost fulfill the contract he signed with the hotel.

Any of us would have done the same exact thing.

But through all this, and while this does not excuse the mistakes he made or free him of guilt, his intentions were good. He put together a lovely tournament for the sake of our community, the same community that turned 180 degree's on him in the blink of an eye without so much as a second thought.

And while I do not in any way think it's wrong for the top placing players to expect prize money, as in 'extra money' can you honestly say that you'd rather plank be in debt 9k+, or having to file bankruptcy than top X players getting prize money from an event hosted for the community by one of our own? An event that hundreds of players went to, not for the prize money, but for the experience of being there, had a great time, and will fondly remember the event for non-material/financial reasons?

Unfortunately I know that some of you will honestly respond to that with a Yes, without hesitation. And that honestly bothers me.

I play this game for the love of it, it's the best damn game I've ever played and I don't expect to play any better. I go to tournaments to get better because that's what I want. I want to be the best, I want to be able to see what PP, mango, armada see. I want to be able to break the game down to anyone who asks and have lengthy discussions of the complexities prevalent in every second of every game of every set. That's why I went to Pound5, and if I ever start going to tournaments for any other reason I'll probably quit this game.

So no, Albert, I did not take this stance to be a devils advocate, I took it because I know plank is a good guy and how all of this must be destroying him. To have his TO record tarnished by good intentions and a disappointing turnout. To know that he'll be remembered as that guy who scammed people at his tournaments. To have his community, which he spent hundreds of hours of his own time organizing and running events for turn on him in an instant over money.

Budget Player Cadet_ · Mar 9, 2011

Malcolm.O said:
Yes, they got nothing

Plank is not handling this properly

What he did (Which someone said before) is pay the people he feared more

...And can you blame him? Sure, he owes the community money. It's that, or spend virtually his whole life in debt after a massive breach-of-contract lawsuit (the figure 30k was mentioned).

Look. Guys. Plank ****ed up. But there is nothing we can do about it. I'm not even trying to defend his actions (most of the arguments in defense of his actions, like that the people attending were also putting in a gamble, are quite frankly ********). But getting angry, threatening to sue, and in general trying to make this situation profitable for the winners is not going to help. All it does it hurt the scene. Hell, I can imagine other TOs who would host nationals are scared ****less.

If you're going to sue, do it quietly. Arrange it privately, and sue him. You have legal grounds to, and even if I think it's not the best thing for the scene (he literally does not have the money), I'm sure a few funds will pop up to help Plank (worked for Armada). I'd donate myself if I wasn't scraping together every penny to be able to go to Dogusch Smash this month and Make Some Neuss 2 in May, and didn't have any realistic income.

But making a public fiasco about this whole thing... IMO this has to stop. It's a hotbed for trolls and morons, and when I come into a thread and think "damn, this post I'm making is fairly rational and not that salty in comparison to the rest", that's a good sign that the thread needs to be closed. :laugh:

This whole issue needs to die down. Want a lawsuit? Make it private. Want to criticize Plank? Save your breath. He knows he ****ed up; he's got a combined 40 pages of people shouting at him for ****ing up. He might even have a lawsuit coming his way for the prize money. But this really has to end; it's not helping anyone.

FALCOMIST · Mar 9, 2011

He ran 5 great tournaments... He made one mistake on his last one... No one is perfect guys... I feel for ya Plank! U admit your mistake and that takes a lot of balls especially to the entire community.

Whats done is done and I think everyone in his situation would do the same thing. A community is a mixture of people who will support or hate on plank. There are valid points on both side... But really the community as a whole has to learn to just move on from this situation.

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

This community has fallen so hard it's shameful

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

vVv ChiboSempai said:
I don't understand the screenshots from his bank account. It's a bunch of smaller charges (that all look like room charges likely, aka all the extra rooms Plank said he got, and then a single lump of $3,600 - so I'm confused. I would expect the venue to cost around the $10-$15k range, and for the base cost of the room, I would think they would charge the entire bill at once. Separate rooms are paid in separate things, but the base of the room would be the largest cost, which we're seeing $3,600.

idk, whatever, and since this bugs me so much, I'm gonna do the math. I dunno if anyone else did in the thread yet since I haven't read all the pages, but Plank claims these are all of the charges to his card from the hotel soo...
$5,027.52 on page 1
$4,177.66 on page 2
$5,389.04 on page 3
+ the $418 he mentioned in the OP

Total: $15,077.56

Prizes are estimated to be $9,716

Now lets estimate approximately how much Plank received in venue fees...

The average venue fee was say... $27.50... TO BE SAFE. The venue fee was $27.50 in the month of december. The largest amount of people signed up in January and February, but this somewhat offsets the earlier months starting at October. Honestly the avg venue is likely higher.

Next we can just add the entrants between the singles events of the two games. There was some people that joined both events such as Inui and Vex, but this is offset by people who might have just entered singles, or the generous list of spectators, such as the Project M crowd and such who are listed as paying spectators in the Pound 5 OP.

Brawl had 151 entrants and Melee had 243 entrants, totaling 394 players. At $27.50 each that's $10,835. Round it up to $11,000 because of spectators, extra fee from door signups, which should shoot it over 11k but then subtracting some discounts and such. For people wondering if spectators are that many, there's 40 spectators in the Pound 5 OP (so not including even more from at the door) and at $20 each that's a cool $800.

Ok so $11,000 in venue fee and $9,716 in entry fees
Plank paid $15,077.56 for the tournament

Now Plank claims that there's no distinction between venue and entry fees which is an outright lie, or it would be a flat rate to enter each event and it wouldn't say X amount to venue and X amount to entry, however whatever whatever...

Take the $15,077.56, subtract 11k, and you've got $4,077.56. Even if Plank paid that off with the entry fees, he should still have $5,638.44...
So uhh... Plank showed us straight up, those were the charges he got from the hotel. Additionally there was another thing or two on there like a music store which I'm assuming is the mic he said he bought for the event. But yea, over half of the entry fees should still be somewhere, and I'm sure the winners would enjoy getting at least half of their money back,even if it isn't all of it right now.

anyone gonna reply to this?

can can get at least half our money back?

I've seen this same scenario tons of times

Winterfest from FL in Dec 2009 expected higher turnout. They promised to pay me and everyone else the remaining money. Personally I was promised about 1,500 that I never received. I do not believe empty words, because the truth is that everyone is out for themselves. The world continues to get worse as time goes on.

TheZhuKeeper · Mar 9, 2011

Mew2King said:
Winterfest from FL in Dec 2009 expected higher turnout. They promised to pay me and everyone else the remaining money. Personally I was promised about 1,500 that I never received. I do not believe empty words, because the truth is that everyone is out for themselves. The world continues to get worse as time goes on.

Truer words have not been spoken.

Except maybe mine.

Which then makes your words even truer.

Who wins?

ShieldBash · Mar 9, 2011

thezhukeeper said:
truer words have not been spoken.

Except maybe mine.

Which then makes your words even truer.

Who wins?

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

Mr P · Mar 9, 2011

I have only read the first post of this thread and a few others, i dont intend to read everything so if this post in not appropriate then too bad, BUT

The most striking thing to me about planks post is that there was not even an apology or admission of guilt for his wrong doing, he only focused on talking about himself and not the people that he badly screwed over... He could have made it so much better by just saying SORRY.

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

Let me give you a bit about Plank's history with me

In summer of 2008 I believe it was? There was this big huge tournament called Axis, a 300 man Brawl tournament in California with a 3k pot, 2k for first, 600 2nd, and 300 for 3rd (or something very close to that since that only adds up to 2900). I told a bunch of East Coast people about it because at that time I didn't think I could go, but I wanted an EC person to at least hear about it so they could make some money and I would feel good about helping them out. I am being 100% honest with everything that I am saying here. I told a bunch of people about it, but only Plank was on AIM that would be able to fly there. He originally thanked me for telling him about the tournament. I even tried to set him up to team with DSF so he could make some extra money (teams ended up getting cancelled though).

A few days later, I decide that I really want to go to it because I really wanted to win it. Instead of just doing that on my own, what I did is I told DSF and Plank that I was now going to go. Both of them, especially plank, were basically begging me not to go. Plank was saying that it was unfair that I should go now that he already bought his plane ticket, and for hours talked to me on aim until I finally was like okay okay, you can go alone. But I told him that he would have to promise to not plank the edge, because at that time before a LGL was instantiated it could ruin the game and potentially get MK banned. As someone who played MK with skill and wanted to just fight normally and keep the game alive and proper as it should be, I told him not to plank, and he agreed to it.

But go figure, he was lying. When he had to fight SK92 he beat him by planking the edge (no ledge grab limit) and barely at that. Plank completely lied to me, after I was nice enough to tell him about a large tournament, set up a good teammate for him, and then decide to not go out of niceness even though I really really wanted to, and all at the sake of promising not to plank, he did the exact opposite.

When he came back, I told him he owes me at least something for this, especially since he lied to me about the planking thing. I told him to drive me to tournaments, and if he did that, we would even team at them. So he would take me from south jersey to north jersey and NY and maryland/virginia tournaments, and he would even get to team with me. Not even much of a favor for just myself since it helps him too.

He agreed to this at first, but then later on whenever I ask him for a ride to tournaments, he does not do it. I later found out he was lying the entire time. Either that or he suddenly changed his mind, which is a pretty ****ed up thing to do.

The next year, at Pound4, another incident happens. I have it documented here - http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=53105

Basically, after practicing at lot for pound4, Jman decides to get either drunk or high (I forget which) and he's stuck at the hotel while they are calling teams matches. We try to keep calling Jman and WarriorKnight on their cell phones, but no answer for a while. Eventually we get in to them, and they are coming to the place, but Plank says we don't have much time left. I'm thinking to myself, why is he being so mean like this. The team we had to fight, Doll and Savedge... I can't speak for Savedge but Doll himself wanted to forfeit to me and Jman so he could see us win the tournament. I told Plank this, but he didn't care. I ask to play them by myself, 2 vs 1, and Plank wouldn't allow that either. Jman ends up arriving about 10 minutes late. Plank not only DQs us from the entire set instead of 1 match, but he DQs us from losers bracket as well. His logic was that it would be unfair to everyone in loser's bracket to fight M2K and Jman. I told him, that first off that isn't fair, and second off if they lost so early already, they would get ***** anyhow and it wouldn't matter at all. Plank said I don't care Mew2king and then banned us from the entire tournament for Jman being 10 minutes late when the team that fought us wanted to let us go on but he wouldn't allow it.

Now this next part, I am not 100% sure is true, but I heard this and it might very well be true and I wouldn't be surprised if it was (about the 20 dollar part). WarriorKnight was with Jman, (WK was DJNintendo's teammate), and in the same exact situation as us, but WarriorKnight and DJ nintendo didn't get banned at all. What I heard is that WarriorKnight gave plank 20 dollars and plank didn't ban them at all. I am not sure if that part is true or not, but if it is then that's horrible.

Everything else I said definitely happened though. None of this is a lie, and if he says otherwise then he is lying to you.

This is the type of person Plank is.

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

I see you're reading this now Plank. Why don't you at least give Ally Armada and DrPP the money they won since I know you have no intention of giving me mine. I'll be satisfied with that, cuz right now you are nothing but a thief or a liar. It is not your right to use other people's money for your own debt.

the TO has a risk, they could make money or lose money.

GameClucks from California is seriously the best TO ever because he ALWAYS pays out even when it costs him money (I know tons of TOs that are good but he has proved himself to me at every single tourneyplay. I know because I attended them all). He is legit, you are not. You used the money to at least try to come close to breaking even, and that is assuming you are telling the truth, which I don't believe especially cuz there was a LOT more money there than the hotel could have costed, and if you really did that, then that is some pretty poor planning. You weren't taking a risk, because you intended to do this from the start, and I still believe you pocketed the money, especially since you never stated where you would pay out to in your previous posts. You never mentioned payouts at all.

Everyone going to the tournament has a risk, the players could make or lose money, and the TO could make or lose money. It is not your right to steal from others to make up for things not working how you wanted them to. You are selfishly ****ing over everyone else in the process, but I guess you don't care about that.

So Fatal · Mar 9, 2011

people saying "Pay them what" and etc when regarding the prizes are making me sick. Esp the dude saying to pay them .01 cents. I was told by tant who was told by plank that I was getting at least $50 bucks for 7th. Oh well.

Shenanigans · Mar 9, 2011

If ANYTHING,

For this ****up, if he absolutely had to without a doubt. He should pay for the travel exspenses of the winners/top 8/to 16 or whatever.

I'm just more upset that people would be willing to leave Plank with 30k (or w/e) of debt because they want their money that they "worked hard" to get. Yea the world and big buisnesses work like that but human compassion is gone man. To bad this world will never get it back.

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

It is because you believe everything people tell you that reality will catch up to you when you learn more from experience.

riocosta123 · Mar 9, 2011

Gameclucks Guy is in WA.

P.S. Go to Washington!

ranmaru · Mar 9, 2011

Yet this was a national. Everyone has more to lose, since everyone has to travel. Why take a risk as such an event? I feel bad for OOS top placers like Armada. Will he ever try to come out to the US again after this? Also Plank didn't warn anyone before hand. This doesn't help the community, because in the future, people won't be sure if they'd get their money even if the OP doesn't state anything about it.

Also why cannot Plank help the winners in anyway? For example, fund raisers?

Also, what about this left over money Chibo is talking about? Does Plank have an explanation for that?

So Fatal · Mar 9, 2011

Ranmaru said:
Yet this was a national. Everyone has more to lose, since everyone has to travel. Why take a risk as such an event? I feel bad for OOS top placers like Armada. Will he ever try to come out to the US again after this? Also Plank didn't warn anyone before hand. This doesn't help the community, because in the future, people won't be sure if they'd get their money even if the OP doesn't state anything about it.

Also why cannot Plank help the winners in anyway? For example, fund raisers?

Also, what about this left over money Chibo is talking about? Does Plank have an explanation for that?

this this this.

There is 5K missing. We want numbers and I want my 50

Shenanigans · Mar 9, 2011

Mew2King said:
It is because you believe everything people tell you that reality will catch up to you when you learn more from experience.

I somehow have a hard time believing that many people on this forum have more experience when it comes to LIFE than i do. Considering what i do and what i'm held accountable for.

If you think you do M2K, then more power to you. Though me, I doubt it.

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

There needs to be contracts from now on or something. Nice of plank to not mention payouts in any of the threads, and not seem to care very much. This was most likely a scam. Even if it wasn't, it's still unforgivable to be so selfish.

To be completely honest with you guys, if you really believe Plank and more importantly SIDE with plank after reading everything in these threads, then you're just stupid. I'm sorry but seriously.

ranmaru · Mar 9, 2011

What would you guys think of charity tournaments for specific players or a number of players?

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

I've wasted enough time here. I already know that plank has no intention of doing the right thing. PLANK if you can prove me wrong, then please do. Pay Armada, Ally, and DrPP their prize money

I just want you guys to understand the reality of the situation and what is really going on here. A lot of you are blinded by what you want to believe rather than reality, and I am trying to clear that up for you so that people know that actions like these are unacceptable. It would help the community a lot to realize this so other people don't try the same thing again, because this really will kill smash. Please take my words seriously. I'm not replying again unless Plank does, since I've said everything I needed to. Send me a PM if you must but I'm gone for today

edit - and Charity tournaments would be awesome if people were willing to do that. I'd be impressed if people were that nice in this world. That would really change my mindset of humanity a lot.

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

Oh yeah, I would like to quote this again

‎"There is nowhere set in stone that delegates where that money that comes in is going to go. You all are paying me to run a successful event, and I distribute those funds how I choose to do so. I even realize in hosting my event that the money can go towards whatever it has to which is why I put the entry fee as ONE LARGE SUM rather than split up per event/fee/etc, because it is in the end all to go towards MAKING THE TOURNAMENT AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE AT ANY TIME. The event happening at all is more important than the prizewinners being paid out. The cash was NEVER yours, it is not stealing. Prizes come after the event venue gets paid off, sorry, that's how it works. If there is not enough money to cover the event there would be no event and therefore no prizes or event. At least this way the majority of people still had fun." - Plank

Just so everyone can see reality

Эикельманн [РУС] · Mar 9, 2011

This is all so ridiculous...

This would never happen in Japan or Europe lol

We should all just do things like Japan, and not play for money anymore.

Pierce7d · Mar 9, 2011

Oh, since I didn't want to say, that I never wanted to believe that Plank stole the money for himself. However, to deny that the situation was growing increasingly suspicious after he completely dipped and didn't contact anyone after one post is just silly.

Now that he's returned, I do believe him that he had no intention of making off with the pot from the get-go, even though I still strongly disagree with his actions.

If Plank were to pay out the winners, or at least TRY to pay back SOME of the winners (especially Armada) then his honor would be completely restored in my eyes, and probably most of us. However, the way Plank is talking now, he doesn't seem like he plans on it.

If Plank came out and said, "I'm not stealing the money, I just had to pay off the hotel, and I plan on trying to do what I can for the winners as time goes on" I'd respect that. Instead he said, "Pot money is money that I can spend to fund the tournament" which is not what was implied or agreed upon before the event.

Anyway you slice it, Plank knew about this crap BEFORE the tourney even happened, so we were deceived. I can forgive people for making mistakes. Actually, I'm normally quick to do so. However, I'm just not down with the fact that Plank handled the situation so epic poorly, and doesn't seem to want to rectify the situation.

At the end of the day, even if he's out $1,000, that's not as much as any of the top placers lost when he took their money to get himself out of debt. Right now, Plank claims to be debt free, and Armada is not. Plank has not stated his intentions to rectify this situation, since he used money that was supposed to go to Armada, and instead paid off what he owed. Denying that the tournament entry fee is supposed to go to the pot, is the main thing I have beef with right now.

Also, when Plank screwed up, and KNEW he screwed up, instead of being honest with everyone, he tried to get MORE people caught up in the mix.

I honestly think if Plank would have just come out and said, "Guys, right now, the tournament is in huge peril, because not enough rooms are books, and it's going to cost me $X000 to miss this quota" then the Melee players that LOVE Plank so much would've probably tried a lot harder to make it work. Hell, even us Brawl players would've surely sympathized with that plight, knowing that it's for the sake of the community, and for a tournament organizer that was trying to help us. But man, don't steal money out of the pot in the name of trying to do good by the community. Look what just happened.

Hell, the majority of people probably would've even been okay with not winning money, even if this were announced BEFORE the tournament actually happened. People would've come anyway, and most people aren't even affected. Maybe a COUPLE of top players might have ditched.

If I place money in your hand, look you in the eye, and tell you that I'm paying to enter the Single's Bracket of the tournament at hand, it is understood between us that my money is going into a Pot along with all the other entrance fees. This is a universal agreement that has been established for years between players and T.O.s. I feel sick knowing that there are people amongst us who believe that this is not sacred.

For all those players that are saying "BLAH BLAH BLAH, lost faith in the community, etc, more bull****" open your eyes. This is the same community that's willing to start a fund for EVERY LITTLE THING. This is the same community that sponsored Armada to come here in the first place. I would have trusted the community in Plank's shoes. Maybe not trusted them to not buddy up in hotel rooms, but trusted me to give me a hand when I came across a bad way trying to help them out. That's what this community does. Even on a personal level, this community has been there for it's members.

Right now, people are mad because Plank broke an understanding and deceived us. As I've said before, I'm not going to pull some holier than thou crap on him. But to say that the money in the pot was his to delegate how he wanted, outside of paying the prize winners does not sit well with me. Even if he were to say, "I know that money was supposed to go the winners, but I used it to save the tournament, because it was either that, or go into thousands of dollars of debt, and I wasn't willing to do that," I'd accept that, because at least he's admitting his wrongdoing. The fact that he's not admitting it is what makes me so upset. The fact that other people are backing him up, and saying that taking the pot money is okay, is what scares me.

etecoon · Mar 9, 2011

if plank was telling the truth I could at least sympathize a little and say that what he did was wrong but somewhat understandable, but wow at chibo's post...if that's accurate it's pretty sad

Kuraudo · Mar 9, 2011

Eikelmann said:
This is all so ridiculous...

This would never happen in Japan or Europe lol

We should all just do things like Japan, and not play for money anymore.

It's probably way easier in Japan though in regards to getting places for tournaments. You seen the size of that place? lol

My province alone is bigger then Japan.

Эикельманн [РУС] · Mar 9, 2011

You'd be surprised.

Depends on what the players value more...money, or the experience?

OFY · Mar 9, 2011

Most smash tournament are unofficial, meaning that there's nothing in writing that guarantees payment will occur. There is no case for a law firm to pick up, there no association that was even associated with Pound 5 (that I know of) that you can sue.

Now envision yourself in Plank's situation, your about to be in debt because of a national tournament, to remedy you put your hand in the pot to pay off this debt. Most people, if they had power over money in a situation, would do the same thing. Even so, there is always a risk for unofficial tournaments, because they're unofficial. Also get at me

Mew2King · Mar 9, 2011

And most people that stole a million dollars wouldn't turn themselves in. That makes it right, man

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