ぱみゅ
❤ ~
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Meta Knight's New Match Up Thread: King Dedede
- Thread starter ぱみゅ
- Start date
KassandraNova
Smash Master
Shuttle loop him once he up Bs, then ta-da!
:D
:D
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Careful not to get spiked by his Up-B when it's coming down
AfroQT
Smash Master
This matchup is free
KassandraNova
Smash Master
JonathantheMeSa
Smash Journeyman
spam tornado like a Motha****a, and see how good his shield tilting is.... but really, this isn't hard.....
KassandraNova
Smash Master
His utilt can beat tornado, so I wouldn't exactly spam it. :/
Just be smart about it.
Just be smart about it.
AfroQT
Smash Master
You can bait the Utilt with a tornado, and punish with the same tornado lol.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
ReyErnesto
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2010
- Messages
- 25
I suck at this mu, my bro uses DDD and grabs everything.
DDD's swallow is a little underrated as well I think.
DDD's swallow is a little underrated as well I think.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
If you get right up in D3's face theres almost nothing he can do but take the hit. Grabs, Nadoes, Nair, and your aerials are you best friends. D3 is just a big combo target really. Just gotta get in his face and get to work.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
About D3s grabs. What is normally our best option after getting grabbed by him, because whenever I do something dumb enough to get grabbed by that character, I either tech, or roll into where he wants me. @_@
I wanna know his options.
I wanna know his options.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Don't tech in place because he can scoop you back up. If you tech roll away from him I don't think he has time to chase and regrab from a read, but I'm not sure since I haven't done it, just theory crafting here
Joaco
Triforce of Wisdom
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2010
- Messages
- 430
- NNID
- JoacoRyu8
Avoid getting in range of his Utilt when you're at high %
When edgeguarding, if he is at high % avoid getting swallowed up, he will dedecide and -1 stock for both. You should abuse of tornado and fair, ftilt is good but his ftilt has good range, so be careful. Shuttle loop his recovery. That should make it. I think is 60:40
I just remember, don't counterpick Rainbow Cruise, go to Brinstar.
When edgeguarding, if he is at high % avoid getting swallowed up, he will dedecide and -1 stock for both. You should abuse of tornado and fair, ftilt is good but his ftilt has good range, so be careful. Shuttle loop his recovery. That should make it. I think is 60:40
I just remember, don't counterpick Rainbow Cruise, go to Brinstar.
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
Space a glide attack on his shield and buffer a spot dodge. He'll miss the grab and free GSL/Dsmash/Grab. He won't be trying that again!:D
If he swallows you either Tornado or air dodge>buffered dash attack out of it. He' won't be expecting it.
GSL anything and everything on shield and whiff besides Ftilt.
Never underestimate Dair's reach or you'll regret it after you lose your juggle. >__>
Mixing up tornado with tilts and rolls is a good way to get around Utilt being>Tornado. Just don't give him time to react with Utilt. Haven't tried it, but just hovering in front of him with Nado just outside of his Utilt range could net you some early Utilt punishes.
If he swallows you either Tornado or air dodge>buffered dash attack out of it. He' won't be expecting it.
GSL anything and everything on shield and whiff besides Ftilt.
Never underestimate Dair's reach or you'll regret it after you lose your juggle. >__>
Mixing up tornado with tilts and rolls is a good way to get around Utilt being>Tornado. Just don't give him time to react with Utilt. Haven't tried it, but just hovering in front of him with Nado just outside of his Utilt range could net you some early Utilt punishes.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
Err, I would never glide attack a D3 on the ground, that's like the easiest shield grab for him ever. Lol. Now if he's in the air, that's different.
Maybe you can space the glide attack, but 8/10 times he'll shield and grab it. I just don't think its safe. :/
I'm more interested in knowing what's safe to do against a character, rather than high risk high reward situations.
Maybe you can space the glide attack, but 8/10 times he'll shield and grab it. I just don't think its safe. :/
I'm more interested in knowing what's safe to do against a character, rather than high risk high reward situations.
Spaced glide attack is safe against King Dedede. Furthermore, if it's a glide that doesn't put you into free-fall, you can tilt it up and he'll whiff grab because his grab is so low to the ground, and you'll have time for a guaranteed punish. I'm pretty sure that DDD's grab is lagless enough to not be punished by this with free-fall gliding though.
AfroQT
Smash Master
If you get grabbed and get dthrown tech away, theres no way d3 can chase you he cannot close the distance at all. I'm 100% sure of this. If he dash attacks you will have time to shield, and his grab will not reach by the time you regain control of your character. If you shield an ftilt you can almost always get a dash attack, depending on the spacing of where you shielded the ftilt. Waddle Dee/Doos are not even close to safe. You can shield the throw and almost always get over to him in time for a punish, as well as being able to tornado straight through Dee/Doos (but not Gordos).
When recovering take your time, if D3 chases you off the stage, give him alittle room and try to tornado back on. Don't try to beat his Bair, this is not to say that you can't beat it, but if he does land it and you're already off the stage you could die incredibly early (especially if you DI it wrong). If he chases you off the stage your best bet is tornado. If he stays on the stage and waits, grab the ledge and slowly work your way on.
ABUSE HIS CRAPPY RECOVERY
There are so many situations where D3 must use all 4 jumps to just grab the edge, if you see him going for the edge from below and on his 3rd or 4th jump, grab the edge and force him to up B. You recieve a free hit for doing this successfully and once you get good at it there is literally no risk at all.
<--Great MK or Greatest MK?
When recovering take your time, if D3 chases you off the stage, give him alittle room and try to tornado back on. Don't try to beat his Bair, this is not to say that you can't beat it, but if he does land it and you're already off the stage you could die incredibly early (especially if you DI it wrong). If he chases you off the stage your best bet is tornado. If he stays on the stage and waits, grab the ledge and slowly work your way on.
ABUSE HIS CRAPPY RECOVERY
There are so many situations where D3 must use all 4 jumps to just grab the edge, if you see him going for the edge from below and on his 3rd or 4th jump, grab the edge and force him to up B. You recieve a free hit for doing this successfully and once you get good at it there is literally no risk at all.
<--Great MK or Greatest MK?
Jem.
Smash Master
always tech away from dthrow, dont tech in place because he can regrab, don't tech behind because he can dsmash as you're rolling.
tornado a lot. you can bait the utilt, just be in semi-near distance of him, tornado, don't go into him, and then after he utilts go into him. first i'd test him though, i usually just nado spam in them until they can prove to me they can utilt me out of it.
i like to continuously shuttle loop him out of his up b so he doesn't make it back on stage, it's funny and adds more damage and until like the 3rd shuttle loop, you're making his recovery harder. so then after ledgehog him.
tornado a lot. you can bait the utilt, just be in semi-near distance of him, tornado, don't go into him, and then after he utilts go into him. first i'd test him though, i usually just nado spam in them until they can prove to me they can utilt me out of it.
i like to continuously shuttle loop him out of his up b so he doesn't make it back on stage, it's funny and adds more damage and until like the 3rd shuttle loop, you're making his recovery harder. so then after ledgehog him.
!!!RM!!!
Smash Journeyman
D3 boards need data on his up B. >__<
However, they say that as soon as he reaches the apex of his up B, Super Armor ends. Dat's when you gimp him.
Pretty much what Jem and The Greatest MK said. Get rid of his jumps and send him back off to die. D3 with only Up B should never be able to recover lol.
However, they say that as soon as he reaches the apex of his up B, Super Armor ends. Dat's when you gimp him.
Pretty much what Jem and The Greatest MK said. Get rid of his jumps and send him back off to die. D3 with only Up B should never be able to recover lol.
AfroQT
Smash Master
You don't always need to Up B him it completely demands on the angle of his Up B and where hes going to be. There are alot of different ways to abuse D3's Up B, its really really bad. It's like shieks in melee. Probably alittle better though.
Jem.
Smash Master
Nope Up B constantly its way funnier. It's a penguin, play hard.
Just kidding, I do it in smart fashion. But I love it.
Just kidding, I do it in smart fashion. But I love it.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
Problem in teching away. If you always tech away then the D3 will continue to chase and I'm pretty sure he can grab you if he buffers the dash grab. If you roll away at the edge then he can Buuman trap. The way to avoid the Buuman trap is get up attack. Nothing else is safe.
I got a lot of practice from playing Coney for hours and hours in Mk vs D3 last semester. We'd play for at least 3-4 hours a week lmao.
I still think the matchup is only -2. The way Coney plays it makes me think it's better then he leads on (He says -3).
Working the way back to stage from the ledge is also difficult. You CANNOT ledgehop nado back because he can Utilt that on reaction. If he stays really close to the edge and out of planking Uair or Fair range then most likely he is waiting for a get up attack, get up, or jump. It's really scary to get back on stage vs Dedede. Rolling back on under 100% is usually a safer option, but not always the best.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Get up attack is far from safe, all D3 has to do is shield grab. We have a good tech roll, I'm pretty sure the distance from the Dthrow and the tech roll would be faster than D3's run to grab, you should be able to do something from this before he has time to grab you
Pandu!
Smash Cadet
meta knight should never get buuman trap'd. iirc, you can DI up and airdodge to avoid having to tech at all, then you can ps the downsmash in time. Also, Buuman trap only really works if you miss a tech in the first place.
AfroQT
Smash Master
Rolling onto the stage isn't any safer then get up attack or get up jump or neutral get up. It can be read, it can be punished.
Ledgehop nado is a great option, like i said you can bait a Uptilt from the D3 with a tornado, then punish with the same tornado
This matchup sucks.
Seagull Joe
Smash Legend
You haven't versed Coney to know what I have to deal with =/. The same D3 that 3 stocked M2k.
But yea, I do punish with the same nado a lot verse D3 players. I know what you mean, but you gotta be pinpoint.
Coney
Smash Master
wow are you serious?
this matchup is complete superbooty, the only reason it feels hard is because it's your secondary
it's completely terrible for ddd. i three stocked m2k because he was playing outrageously aggro game one, and game three he obviously still didn't understand the matchup. it's not one of those matchups you can just go into and destroy, but if the mk knows it i don't see how ddd can win...at all. one error leads offstage, leads to edgeguard, leads to death
this matchup is complete superbooty, the only reason it feels hard is because it's your secondary
it's completely terrible for ddd. i three stocked m2k because he was playing outrageously aggro game one, and game three he obviously still didn't understand the matchup. it's not one of those matchups you can just go into and destroy, but if the mk knows it i don't see how ddd can win...at all. one error leads offstage, leads to edgeguard, leads to death
AfroQT
Smash Master
Rofl pinpoint with what? Tornado? You hit the B button, you slowly move the tornado at him, hes either going to have to shield or Utilt. If he shields, you go through him, if he Utilts you continue to press the B button until the time of danger has passed then you hit him with the same tornado you baited the Utilt with, its pretty ******** rofl.
And im sorry, but i'll MM ANY d3 for ANY amount of money ANY time ANY place just PLEASE come up to me and ask me its literally that bad of a matchup and i am QUITE EXPERIENCED in it.
Thats a challenge.
Mk vs D3? On the real its in MKs favor (by alot), but just to be reasonable so that the whole world doesn't blow up i'll say 7-3.
Afro has plenty of experience vs. Seibrik's (and possibly CO18? I don't know if you guys have played since you started maining MK). Even if Coney is amazing at the match-up, it can't be too much harder than vs. any other top DDD if only because it's a hard counter.
I also have experience vs. both of them and I will attest to everything that Afro has said.
To clarify what I mean by hard counter, I mean that the success or failure of the match-up does not require the skill of the DDD to be known once the MK player is to such a level in the match-up because of the lack of control the DDD player has over how the match will progress. It doesn't matter if you're Mew2King or random-player-XYZ. The only thing that matters when you look at the match-up is whether or not the MK player understands how it progresses.
Meta Knight can pretty much just spam baiting and eventually catch DDD in a position where you can punish his landing until he runs out of jumps at which point you can just space Uair>Neutral B mechanically and cover all of his options. At that point you will eventually knock him off of stage and repeat until he can't return to the stage or reaches kill % -- whichever comes first. Then you can either repeat or run-away. Both strategies defeat DDD in a spectacular fashion.
KassandraNova
Smash Master
theunabletable
Smash Lord
Yeah, I think this matchup is really bad, mostly because we can follow up on D3 REALLY hard, but imo at a neutral position it is kinda RPS. The difference is that you getting a read means D3s stock, and him getting a read is 16% lol.
Atleast from my experience with D3s, once he gets to like 20%, I can usually like just fish for something that puts him in the air (like looking for a position to fair, or grab), and then when one of my options FINALLY hits, or when I bait him to do something more risky than dash>shield, or if after a while he's still just shielding I grab, then I just gimp him lol.
Against all the D3s I've played, I didn't have to worry about the neutral position, because if I threw **** out EVENTUALLY I'm gonna hit with something (if I mix it up and stuff), no matter who I'm playing they aren't gonna get like 8 reads+a hard read for the kill before I land a fair, a grab, or I bait something risky, and at that point, I just do my best to take his stock from that hit.
Basically, imo, just do ****, and when you land a hit, get out your camera and start recording your combo video.
Atleast from my experience with D3s, once he gets to like 20%, I can usually like just fish for something that puts him in the air (like looking for a position to fair, or grab), and then when one of my options FINALLY hits, or when I bait him to do something more risky than dash>shield, or if after a while he's still just shielding I grab, then I just gimp him lol.
Against all the D3s I've played, I didn't have to worry about the neutral position, because if I threw **** out EVENTUALLY I'm gonna hit with something (if I mix it up and stuff), no matter who I'm playing they aren't gonna get like 8 reads+a hard read for the kill before I land a fair, a grab, or I bait something risky, and at that point, I just do my best to take his stock from that hit.
Basically, imo, just do ****, and when you land a hit, get out your camera and start recording your combo video.
Sensei Seibrik
Smash Hero
this matchup is dead even, at the top top top levels of play.
i would know, im a smash researcher
i would know, im a smash researcher
Claire Diviner
President
60-40 (Meta Knight's favor)
For King Dedede, just avoid his grabs. Sure he can block our attacks, but that shield fails at protecting his entire body, so he's easily shield-poked. Should he Dthrow you, try to mix things up. There are several ways to tech, though I personally prefer teching away from him. I believe he can regrab if we tech away, but they have to be expecting such a tech and prepare in advance to grab us afterward. Also, Nado is your friend - as it is in, like, every other MU - especially with his big girth. Just try not to be predictable if you're ever approaching him on the ground, as his F tilt has superior reach over everything we throw (don't know about Nado though, so someone clarify this for me?). Also, if we're on the ledge, smart Dedede players will keep their distance and attempt to cattle prod us with Ftilt. Thankfully, we've many ways to get back on stage - we just can't really do so and hope to hit D3 at the same time. Overall, just as long as you keep your distance when needed, and string the hell out of him with D/Uairs and all of our other MK shenanigans, I'd say this MU's not all that hard. Just be mindful of Waddle Dees/Doos and the occasional Gordo.
For King Dedede, just avoid his grabs. Sure he can block our attacks, but that shield fails at protecting his entire body, so he's easily shield-poked. Should he Dthrow you, try to mix things up. There are several ways to tech, though I personally prefer teching away from him. I believe he can regrab if we tech away, but they have to be expecting such a tech and prepare in advance to grab us afterward. Also, Nado is your friend - as it is in, like, every other MU - especially with his big girth. Just try not to be predictable if you're ever approaching him on the ground, as his F tilt has superior reach over everything we throw (don't know about Nado though, so someone clarify this for me?). Also, if we're on the ledge, smart Dedede players will keep their distance and attempt to cattle prod us with Ftilt. Thankfully, we've many ways to get back on stage - we just can't really do so and hope to hit D3 at the same time. Overall, just as long as you keep your distance when needed, and string the hell out of him with D/Uairs and all of our other MK shenanigans, I'd say this MU's not all that hard. Just be mindful of Waddle Dees/Doos and the occasional Gordo.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
60-40 even seems a little low.