Scar talks Lean Melee [2012YotF]

Palpi said:

The worst thing is hesitating to punish, then finally deciding to punish but being too late then getting punished for being late

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This is what it is about, yes. *nods*

ChivalRuse said:

One of the more notable exceptions: hesitation on a knee after a stomp. Then kneeing anyway.

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true but depends on the %.

but yeah everything on this page is true. never doubt yourself, if you do nothing will work out for you. especially with falcon

I have a tech chasing question, I have been trying a lot of different things to mix up my tech chases, but if fox or falco DI's down and away and misses the tech, I seem to slip up a lot. What is the best way to cover this option?

down and away from what? uthrow/dthrow?

if you think theyre gonna miss a tech one of the best things to do is to just knee them. that can get you a stock easily and if you keep covering that option theyll stop not teching/teching in place real quick

From a d-throw, sorry.

Sometimes the distance he goes changes and it messes up my knee, like sometimes I can just SH knee, sometimes I can dash SH knee, sometimes its in the middle..I don't know, it changes alot haha

i'm pretty sure you have enough time to react to their DI. it's hard though. i think good players almost always DI both uthrow and dthrow away as fox/falco.

when it comes down to it, there are only like 2 or 3 places where they can land. like just about everything else it just comes down to repetition and muscle memory. and being able to react accordingly.

Yeah. I catch it sometimes, but I told my friend, to start missing techs sometimes because that is just another thing I have to worry about, and another option I have to cover. He wasn't doing it before so tech chasing was easy.

stomp is the easiest way to cover it since it covers the most space for a tech where weird DI can sometimes make ur tech in place/ no tech knee miss. If they don't do a no tech/ tech in place though they are probably gunna get away

I love doing really fast low up-airs though to scoop them up also

dash dance is OK too, keep track if they spazz and get up attack quick or wait for you to do something before they do something. Some people are horrible after they no-tech and will be super obvious

fox trot isn't bad either. if you stand right in front of their body they literally can get regrabbed by anything unless they do a getup attack, which you can shield on reaction to shield grab if you are playing good.

i like ducking too after a foxtrot because sometimes you can eat a get-up attack, not get knocked down, and still grab them.

It's tough, but predicting is way more important than trying to react to everything. they go hand in hand

I have GOD AWFUL reactions..I pretty much go off predictions completely. I sometimes look for the late uair, then end up just fast falling and following their roll.

Yeah stomp works best. A missed tech is often tricky to knee because it varies on the percent when their bodies bounce. A stomp will hit them no matter what, often leading to a jab reset or an aerial knee. I forgot I used to just stomp every predicted tech roll and then combo from there. Lately I've just been kneeing and standing still and it's cost me dearly.

Yeah, I am going to start using stomp a little more.

If I knock them back down, should I jab them?

Yes, and if you notice they roll after your jabs then follow up with a grab.

or anything else really

kk i dont take falcos to kj64 or brinstar unless i know for sure that they arent good at one of those stages, because i go falco on those stages sometimes and wreck people because i think hes pretty good on both of them

dumb falcos that can combo you perfectly on fd, however, are perfect to take to brinstar

speaking of falco, i wanna ask for some advice. it's a simple question but its either a way too complex or redundant answer.

so I went to that fest/tournament the other day here in Rome and the one person that I was having a lot of trouble with was Aldwyn, who is pretty much recognized as the best falco/smasher in Italy. The margin of skill was enough that it's a little hard for me to gauge it, but if I had to pinpoint how good he is compared to american players, i would say he's about as good as Thorn. Thorn is pretty ****.

This happens to me a lot when i play someone that i know is a lot better than me, but i started to choke. choking like that leads to my old bad habits of rolling too much or attacking way too predictably. by the time i had to play him in tournament he was constantly three stocking me.

the thing is, i feel like I could do way better against this guy. every time I tried to hit him he either outspaced me and hit me instead, or he shielded it right on time. once i DID manage to get a hit in, i managed to capitalize on it to get a kill or at least a good amount of damage. as long as i didn't choke. maybe i didn't have the right mindset, but that's definitely not the only problem. i wish i had videos of the matches so that people could give me some real advice.

i can honestly say that the guy is flat out better than me. that and i've always had trouble with the falco matchup, and i've asked for advice on this thread about it a few times over the past couple years.

so what should I do? just stop getting hit?

Tech skill question.

How do all of you guys do your wavelands off of platforms(just the little tricky, fast ones that I see everyone do)? Do you like...run towards a platform, let's use Yoshi's bottom ones for example, then jump, let go of the stick to do the rolling(best description I could think of) double jump, and then input a waveland...or do you jump towards platform, and then DJ backwards and waveland? I just feel like some people can do it so smoothly, whereas mine are just kind of...blegh...when I do happen to land one, it looks all unsmooth or I just air dodge instead >_<

Silly question, but I can't help but ask because it may have a use somewhere. Never know =P

GooeyBanana said:

Tech skill question.

How do all of you guys do your wavelands off of platforms(just the little tricky, fast ones that I see everyone do)? Do you like...run towards a platform, let's use Yoshi's bottom ones for example, then jump, let go of the stick to do the rolling(best description I could think of) double jump, and then input a waveland...or do you jump towards platform, and then DJ backwards and waveland? I just feel like some people can do it so smoothly, whereas mine are just kind of...blegh...when I do happen to land one, it looks all unsmooth or I just air dodge instead >_<

Silly question, but I can't help but ask because it may have a use somewhere. Never know =P

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Just practice it. When I first did that at a tourny people were like "that was so smooth" and I was like hell yeah.

Falco seems like a hot topic ATM. I had the same problem, losing 1-4 for two sets in a row on GF's the other day. He banned dreamland, and after Kongo I had no more solid CP's. Avoided brinstar cuz he has a decent sheik and brinstar would prob give his sheik the edge to win.

My weaknesses are lasers and getting utilted. Everytime I get utilted I eat another 1 or 2 utilts and then an fsmash. Is my only answer to this matchup to learn how to techchase perfectly like darkrain?

Edit: yoshis and stadium were actually pretty good CP's for me this day lol.

Omg up air so ooo o good . . . . Not sure how I never knew this all these years but you can double jump out of short hop up airs X_X


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The trick I use for fast wavelands is double jump. Just experiment on your own, I'm sure you can figure it out. Additionally, the more horizontal you are the faster/ longer your wavedash will be.

do you really need to know all these little things to be good? like i see you guys go in mad hard about MU's i just play people and learn from my mistakes and get better not study MU's extremely hard lol

mokumo: what i believe is happening to you, which is something that happens to a lot of people i think (myself included), is that, because your good opportunities seem so rare, you get extra nervous when they present themselves. you run around all match, getting outspaced and doing your best to get away from the combos falco is doing to you, and all of a sudden you find yourself having grabbed him. i think that the implied importance of this grab causes people to tense up a little bit, and then makes their movement a little less fluid and accurate. i think that this factor is what lets shiz have success with his reckless style; people feel as if theyre trying so hard to escape him that they arent really ready to capitalize on the frequent mistakes that he actually makes.

gooey: dj forwards for easier wavelands if youre doing them on your way down, i think its because being in the tucked ball shape during the dj allows more room for error as he straightens out when you airdodge. on the way up, the backflip moves your body a little higher than just jumping, so the same effect occurs either way. basically it comes down to timing and realizing when youre about even with the platform and wavelanding as close to horizontally as possible. some tricks, though, are running off the level and djing backwards puts you at perfect height to waveland across the side plats on yoshis (and maybe dreamland), and backflipping a fulljump puts you at perfect height to waveland on the top plats of yoshis and fod. these are basically automatic, so start with these

aussie: first thing i'll say is that, while maybe this is just my being comfortable on the level, i usually can beat sheiks with falcon on brinstar if its a sheik not good enough to be used against me on neutrals. so basically, if he doesnt use sheik against you on neutrals, i wouldnt worry more about it on brinstar, unless you really hate sheik and like falco. a big trick to falco, i think, is being comfortable navigating around the lasers. dont be in a rush to catch up to him, lasers dont do that much damage and arent that hard to avoid, just jump around and wait until you can jump off a plat to hit him before a laser comes out or powershield nair or something. for utilt, i'd assume hes utilting you when youre trying to get out of shield, to which i'd say that basically the best way to get out of shield in every situation is to wd out away from him. if youre getting utilted in another situation, then i dunno.

keepin this thread serious

I totally forgot until just now that non fast falled stomps go over Falco's get up attacks.

I'm ****ing ********

Why would you do non-fastfallen stomps when you can do CC -> running up-smashes to punish getup attack instead?

hmmm I never thought of that before LOL

up smash < stomp.

CaptainNanD0 said:

do you really need to know all these little things to be good? like i see you guys go in mad hard about MU's i just play people and learn from my mistakes and get better not study MU's extremely hard lol

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I always advocate learning person vs. person strategy over 'match up' strategy. Don't matter if you all sorts of 0-death combos if you don't know how to initiate them vs. a good player.

Kill yourself

Nobody insults upsmash while I'm around. Destiny has reserved that pleasure for me

Do not belittle the thumbswayupsmash. That move is sacred.

You are treading dangerous grounds...

Question: How do you do drop zone-> knee?
Every time I try it, I do the knee too late
are you supposed to WD off the ledge/platform and knee or just run off it and knee

run off and knee. But dropzone success depends on your opponent's di on the down throw. only certain DIs will you live and actually recover back to stage from the drop zone. other scenarios, you will not make it back or miss the knee.


EDIT:

on an unrelated note:

FALCON THROW!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRBoEJzL-TA

broken link =(

It worked last night.

Aldwyn is a beast.

people choke when they play good players. Dont feel badd about yourself Mokumo

Windrose said:

run off and knee. But dropzone success depends on your opponent's di on the down throw. only certain DIs will you live and actually recover back to stage from the drop zone. other scenarios, you will not make it back or miss the knee.

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Eh? You simply knee as soon as you left the ground from the ledge. Making it back on stage as nothing to do with hitting or not hitting the opponent, you can still do dropzone knee and make it back without hitting the guy.

mokumo

if you're looking for advice vs falco i'd go a few pages back and look at the post scar made. it pretty much sums up what you want to do in that matchup, or at least it's a good writeup on how mango approaches it.

other than that i'd work on improving your ability as a player. tighten your spacing (imperative vs spacies. a falco can overpower falcon with the tips of his nair and dair if you aren't watching out), think about how to keep a confident mindset to maintain a good playstyle, etc.

is there any way you can link that post? this thread tends to be filled with crap that's hard to sift through.

here, let me help you:


And this is how you forum:

So I'm on my phone right now so I can't read the last 2 pages of post. Why do people roll instead of get-up attacks on missed techs?
I'm assuming get-up attacks are predictable but if you time it right shouldn't you win? Idk I just think that rolling is bad because if they predict you your gonna get hit. I don't really understand it to be honest.