Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

0Room said:

Also in reference to playing ICs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX0SFXb6ePE&feature=feedu&t=05m14s

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sandbag the first two games?

also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQSBCfrleVs
help vs shiek. we have one shiek player in melbourne and this is probably the closest i've gotten to beating him.
any advice is helpful (provided it's not "get better").

I mean ... the only hits you seem to be getting in neutral game is through side-b, which is almost never a good thing ~_~

That's about as lenient a tournament Sheik as you can possibly hope for <_< I'm not sure he edgeguarded you once in that entire set

Overall your techskill could just use a lot of work (I'm assuming this is PAL which explains your consistency at gentleman vs complete lack of JC grabs and why the Sheik is Uthrowing)

Biggest thing is just not running into stupid Sheik stuff (tilts basically) by being more patient and DIing everything away to make it hard for her to combo you

There should be a trigger in your head for when she can do nothing but throw needles at you (watching you take like, 5 standing needles in a row was a little ), when she can dash attack and hit you, and when you'll start trading moves (this is probably where you most want to be so you can abuse Nair range / your almight dashdance to the fullest without being scared too much of dash attack)

Also just gotta be faster haha.

against this shiek i can't approach using nair. i basically can't approach at all otherwise i end up in a chain of ftilts or chaingrabbed. so i figured side-b was probably my best way to get in. i had been using it too much though.

exactly what needs to be improved on with my techskill? i'm pretty sure one thing that i really need to practice atm is my l-cancels when hitting someone's shield off a dair.

JC grabs. i wasn't sure whether these were actually worth using with falcon. any idea on how many frames better they are?

JC grabs are pretty much necessary

I don't care about frame data but to say the least you grab a lot quicker when otherwise you would miss because of a spot dodge/roll/etc

==

shiek is marth with less range and less lag on her moves. Wait for her to whip her legs out then counterattack or grab


=

basically, strive for perfection, all these little things that you could be doing but don't want to do because you are lazy/ don't think its that useful, they all individually add up and can make the difference between winning vs someone who is on your level or when ur on a bad day losing like a n00b to someone who is clearly worse than u

s2j said:

JC grabs are pretty much necessary

I don't care about frame data but to say the least you grab a lot quicker when otherwise you would miss because of a spot dodge/roll/etc

==

shiek is marth with less range and less lag on her moves. Wait for her to whip her legs out then counterattack or grab


=

basically, strive for perfection, all these little things that you could be doing but don't want to do because you are lazy/ don't think its that useful, they all individually add up and can make the difference between winning vs someone who is on your level or when ur on a bad day losing like a n00b to someone who is clearly worse than u

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what a ******. You probably suck

Okay so, I actually have a lot of experience with this match up, around this skill level. So I know what to do.

FIRST OFF
UPTHROWWWWWWWWW Uthrow->knee works around 70-80% to about ~110%. That should be your PRIMARY form of killing in this match up. I really like CF vs floatyish characters [Marth, Peach, Sheik] because it's really easy theory wise, it consists of getting damage up to that percent and doing the throw->knee to win. I don't know if you knew that, but you NEED to do that from now on. If you don't do that you will fail. You. Will. Lose.

2) You really have to control this match up. The best way to take control is grab. When you've grabbed, they literally can't do anything except DI once you've thrown, or try to hammer out. As far as grabs go, JC grab. JC grabs work by pressing y just before you press z. Grab->dthrow chains until about 30% [theory] or 13% [anecdotal]. Wheel of Fortune [dthrow->uair->dthrow] works about 40%-60% I think. They can get out of it if they decide to DI away. Also, uthrow->tech chase stomp on platforms absolutely wrecks people, but luckily it seems you've picked up on that. Don't forget that Stomp-> knee works just as well as every other character, it's just the opportunity is much less frequent.

3) Don't feel like you have to approach. This is a match up where neither person wants to approach, because if they mess up at all, that's death for either of you. In NTSC much more, because of sheik's Dthrow, but even so, a ftilt combo will mostly kill you. What you should do is dash dance until she throws needles, then go in there with something. Just make sure you don't Fastfall, because if you fastfall you'll get hit by them.

4) Learn when you can knee. Here and here you had a beautiful knee ready, but you used a uair instead. There are times when you can knee out of nowhere, like if they miss a ledgehop fair and you're just outside of range. Knees will wreck sheik, it's just hard to hit.

5) Edge guard her! Stay on the ledge until she explodes, and make sure you follow her teleport. That's the main way of removing a sheik from this earth if she's ever offscreen. If she teleports straight up, roll from the ledge. If onto the stage, ledgehop knee, if at the ledge, roll. Hope you didn't ledgehop, it gives her the ledge the second you're off it!

6) Random tips: make sure that when you ledgehop knee, you do it as soon as you grab the ledge, so you're still invincible. Don't use RB except in a combo, or as a tech chase mechanic. Even on shield, it's not safe. Don't approach with it. Also, make sure that you remember that Sheik's tech is like half the screen. Don't try to reflect needles, just jump around them. Don't spend a lot of time in your shield, you'll die if you do. Spend most of your time DDing.

If I remember anything else I'll let you know.

0Room said:

Okay so, I actually have a lot of experience with this match up, around this skill level. So I know what to do.

FIRST OFF
UPTHROWWWWWWWWW Uthrow->knee works around 70-80% to about ~110%. That should be your PRIMARY form of killing in this match up. I really like CF vs floatyish characters [Marth, Peach, Sheik] because it's really easy theory wise, it consists of getting damage up to that percent and doing the throw->knee to win. I don't know if you knew that, but you NEED to do that from now on. If you don't do that you will fail. You. Will. Lose.

2) You really have to control this match up. The best way to take control is grab. When you've grabbed, they literally can't do anything except DI once you've thrown, or try to hammer out. As far as grabs go, JC grab. JC grabs work by pressing y just before you press z. Grab->dthrow chains until about 30% [theory] or 13% [anecdotal]. Wheel of Fortune [dthrow->uair->dthrow] works about 40%-60% I think. They can get out of it if they decide to DI away. Also, uthrow->tech chase stomp on platforms absolutely wrecks people, but luckily it seems you've picked up on that. Don't forget that Stomp-> knee works just as well as every other character, it's just the opportunity is much less frequent.

3) Don't feel like you have to approach. This is a match up where neither person wants to approach, because if they mess up at all, that's death for either of you. In NTSC much more, because of sheik's Dthrow, but even so, a ftilt combo will mostly kill you. What you should do is dash dance until she throws needles, then go in there with something. Just make sure you don't Fastfall, because if you fastfall you'll get hit by them.

4) Learn when you can knee. Here and herehere you had a beautiful knee ready, but you used a uair instead. There are times when you can knee out of nowhere, like if they miss a ledgehop fair and you're just outside of range. Knees will wreck sheik, it's just hard to hit.

5) Edge guard her! Stay on the ledge until she explodes, and make sure you follow her teleport. That's the main way of removing a sheik from this earth if she's ever offscreen. If she teleports straight up, roll from the ledge. If onto the stage, ledgehop knee, if at the ledge, roll. Hope you didn't ledgehop, it gives her the ledge the second you're off it!

6) Random tips: make sure that when you ledgehop knee, you do it as soon as you grab the ledge, so you're still invincible. Don't use RB except in a combo, or as a tech chase mechanic. Even on shield, it's not safe. Don't approach with it. Also, make sure that you remember that Sheik's tech is like half the screen. Don't try to reflect needles, just jump around them. Don't spend a lot of time in your shield, you'll die if you do. Spend most of your time DDing.

If I remember anything else I'll let you know.

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How long did it take you to type this? Do you have a life?

No, you don't

Skeletom said:

against this shiek i can't approach using nair.

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Then don't. If you're both sitting at neutral, and you want to approach then don't use nair. It gets ftitl'd, you know that. But what you can do is non-fastfalled, overshot, stomps. Because of stomp's stretched hitbox it covers Sheik not moving, WD back, and shield because you end up behind her. It also covers ftilt because it will trade and Sheik just can not afford to make that trade over and over again. Also if Sheik moves forward there is a good chance stomp with hit anyways and if it doesn't then whatever, you're too far to punish so no ground was gained for either of you.

As others said you side-b approached a lot, probably in panic, try to be aware of your brain saying "maybe he'll fall into this and I hope he doesn't crouch cancel it". It's a common panic habit for Falcons, whenever you hear your brain say that just try to think "I'll keep waiting and look for a JC grab instead"

0room already said uthrow and he's totally right. uthrow will mess Sheiks up from 0% no problem. Pick Sheik and have one of your friends uthrow you as Falcon, it's a really gay and unfun situation to be in. 0-15% you can chainthrow with it then on the 4th uthrow you can nair or uair them, usually into another grab.

Another thing is use back air. Spaced Bair wrecks Sheik for some reason, it gets past ftilt and pretty much all of her crap. It is extremely strong at defensive spacing against Sheik Hits her in a really good direction to get uair'd at too.

One huge thing you need to add into your Sheik game, and I assume other MUs if you're not using against Sheik is the tremendous gay @sshole that is crouch canceling. I'm not sure Sheik has a move then can't be CC'd, maybe her up-b and usmash? Whatever. Is she in the air and not gonna get grabbed if you shield? Screw that, hold down, dtilt her or CC grab, or gentlemen if you will get something more off of it.

Skeletom said:

against this shiek i can't approach using nair. i basically can't approach at all otherwise i end up in a chain of ftilts or chaingrabbed. so i figured side-b was probably my best way to get in. i had been using it too much though.

exactly what needs to be improved on with my techskill? i'm pretty sure one thing that i really need to practice atm is my l-cancels when hitting someone's shield off a dair.

JC grabs. i wasn't sure whether these were actually worth using with falcon. any idea on how many frames better they are?

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I said abuse Nair range, not approach using Nair ... Falcon has feet as long as Marth's sword (maybe)
I mean, Sheik has to commit to something if you enter her space, it's your job to react / predict what she does

As for tech skill ...

First off there is always something to improve unless you're frame perfect, which nobody is
Second off, your Falcon just looks slow. Most of the shuffles I see you do can be fastfallen faster with no downside, started earlier with no downside, run/jumped out of faster, or some combination of those. If you want an example of like ... fast Nairs for example just look up s2j on youtube
JC grabs are like strictly better for Falcon

XAQ said:

what a ******. You probably suck

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i'm not a ****** ****** ***** *** **** face

Also don't always aim for the first nair hit to hit first. The second one is what you want to hit him with.

thanks guys again. i'll get back to that u-throw.
JC grabs i'm fine with, can get em no problem just need to start using them.

i tried to abuse my nair range, instead of approaching i'd try to stop my nair just before her reach and just pressure her. but thanks for the advice, i will definitely practice my shffl speed.

and cc. i really need to learn that. haven't paid it much attention until recently when i've been getting ****ed up because of it.

Cya next time

Yeah CC is useful, it's just really situational. I kinda use it.
And XAQ, if you think that's long, you need to look at my other posts.

what up guys i have a couple falcon matches on my channel, please watch and tell me what ya think
any mistakes or pointers or tips will be greatly appreciated
here check em out in my channel
THE NAME IS I.SH

http://www.youtube.com/user/FoxLogo?feature=mhum#p/u/2/Ri78xJ8fhWA

Pretty good I guess ... the Fox needs to learn how to play the Falcon matchup though (mostly edgeguarding and not getting shieldgrabbed)

Also the recording is pretty wacky so I can't tell if the times where you Nair and then stand for a full half second or so are there or if it's just the video being silly

If you are just Nairing and then standing there ... do you have a reason for doing it

Wenbobular I appreciate you doing all this input. It really helps when it's not just me

FoxLogo I really like your punishes, I'll say that much so far
but you really need to grab moar

More write ups later, got a test to study for

Gotta contribute to these boards somehow with my expert knowledge of uhh ... almost exclusively using pivot Nair

Hopefully I can get a few of my own vids here after the upcoming Saturday, Azen Chillin and Chu in attendance hopefully o.o

Wenbobular said:

Gotta contribute to these boards somehow with my expert knowledge of uhh ... almost exclusively using pivot Nair

Hopefully I can get a few of my own vids here after the upcoming Saturday, Azen Chillin and Chu in attendance hopefully o.o

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Lol I use pivot nairs all the time
They're so useful

what tournament is this?

This is the video I watched: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri78xJ8fhWA&feature=channel_video_title

Okay let's start at the beginning
1) Calm down. You're going at 80000mph all the time, which isn't necessarily good. It's good when throwing your opponent off, but you need to be able to do your inputs correctly. Your opening game needs a little work: if he's going to stand there and laser you, knee him in the face! At 0% you have a stupid combo of knee->grab. That's guaranteed, but a dthrow->knee usually works after that. Instead, you dded in place, as a warmup I assume, but if you need a warmup you shouldn't be doing serious matches D: So after that you rush over there with a nair to a fullhop bair. If you had slowed down to really think about what you were doing, I doubt there really would have been a fullhop in there.

2) Grab even more! One of my favorite quotes from my friend Darksyde pertains to the Falcon-spacies match up. He said: "You can't fight them blow for blow, you can't win. You have to grab them to death." You did really well at the end of the match, but in the beginning you need to grab more. And remember, if you can ever land a dash attack, you could have grabbed.[Here]

3) This kind of pulls in with #1, but you need to watch the amount of times you airdodge! You should ideally never airdodge, one of them was okay but the rest of them was just scary. Better players will **** you for airdodging where they can reach you. You airdodged here, here, here,and here. In that last one in particular, you would have been fine and caught the ledge. You gotta watch these things.

4) Know your options. Your first stomp of the game, at near 0%, you DDed away and came back with a dash attack, but you need to remember your options. You can turn and Dsmash or grab in that situation. Also, here you did a uthrow->dair, for a jab reset. That usually doesn't work, the timing is weird and you would have to pivot jab it, and a knee would have been a better option in my opinion. Also, after you airdodge, you don't have a second jump. If remember that next time, you might be able to save that first stock. Also, here, you totally overshot it. You need to again, remember your options and how far you need to throw them out.

5) Don't get stuck in your shield. Falcon's worst positions are [in this order] offstage, and in shield. If you're in shield, you can't run around and do stuff, and that's literally how Falcon works. Also, remember that waveshine is NOT a perfect shield defense and everything short of nair->shine->nair can be rolled out of given proper timing. So try and work on that.

6) Edgeguard! I don't think you edgeguarded once this entire match. You focused a lot on combos that will surely kill and that's fine, but when given the option of eliminating their stock early offstage [here, here, and here] you should definitely do that. It's a great opportunity, and make sure that you take it! Depending on percents, Dair works, knee is iffy because of the fire [fox only, Falco has no hitbox!!!!] but uair is usually best option past 50%.

7) Don't guess on the techs. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=94597 Read this, especially about the reaction parts. That's more or less what I'm trying to tell you. The way Hax plays it, from what I hear, is that instead of doing a move to hit them, he watches their tech patterns and just regrabs until he learns it.

Well I hope that I helped you, if I came off as mean I promise you it wasn't intended that way. You've got a good basic build, once you improve on these issues you'll be much better! Be sure to upload a video back here when you've gotten all that down

I used to try and read techs into knees and stomps alot, but more and more I've realized that this is not the proper way to play. Sure, in combo videos it seems as if people read every single tech roll every single time, but in reality... if you try to guess which way the opponent will roll every time your accuracy will probably be somewhere near 10-20% im guessing, probably less.

What I've started doing more and more often is simply reacting to what they do now instead of guessing their roll.

e.g. if they DI your throw away, I'll dash towards them, allowing me to jab reset if they dont tech, or regrab if they tech away, in or in place.

Or, if I upthrow a spacie ill go for the safer chaingrab a bit, or even jab, ftilt, dtilt or whatever. trying to guess their roll and punish with a knee/stomp is just too unreliable :S.

except in certain circumstances when you have your opponent and the ropes and you KNOW which way theyre guna tech, then i punish

@ 0Room - Gonna disagree on a couple points although I think it's probably good advice overall (I didn't look at your specific examples except for a couple)

Dair -> turnaround grab is a situation that can be hard to recognize (I'm really bad at it) and turnaround grab requires you not to jump cancel to get the turnaround which is awkward when you're used to jump canceling everything (I don't think stomp -> turnaround Dsmash is what you're going for though ) ... not really arguing anything here (other than Dsmash) but just pointing out that it can be tricky

Uthrow -> Dair he did at 42% which is really prime time to be getting them with a Dair that pops them up ... leads to stuff like raptor boost -> stuff -> knee and jank like that. The timing for the Dair that pops them is you start your aerial the moment they hit the ground and fastfall it as fast as possible

Another out of shield option I really like is buffer full hop backward out of shield

For edgeguarding weak knee to cover the illusion -> Uair is really good for covering a lot of options but doesn't really work against Foxes that drop down really low but you should probably be able to react to that by jumping back to the stage

Also it's at a biweekly type event that SypherPhoenix hosts

Wenbobular said:

@ 0Room - Gonna disagree on a couple points although I think it's probably good advice overall (I didn't look at your specific examples except for a couple)

Dair -> turnaround grab is a situation that can be hard to recognize (I'm really bad at it) and turnaround grab requires you not to jump cancel to get the turnaround which is awkward when you're used to jump canceling everything (I don't think stomp -> turnaround Dsmash is what you're going for though ) ... not really arguing anything here (other than Dsmash) but just pointing out that it can be tricky

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I find Dair->turnaround grab is really easy to recognize. At ~0%, they always spin like that and can't do anything else. So if you land it, I find it really easy to go into a grab. And you can JC it, you can even Jc a standing grab. It doesn't affect it. Unless you're talking about something else.

In this particular situation [on the edge] it's super **** time. Dair->grab->uthrow
From here you have multiple options
Dsmash is amazing, and leads into
[if DI into the stage, which happens a lot near the edge] Dsmash-> follow tech [they usually tech in place]->knee->****
if they tech away on the second one, continue running, regrab
If they DI towards the edge/in place, the Dsmash with catch them, and then you can continue to edgeguard [flashily] with a moonwalk bair
or just a straight up knee/uair if you wanna be sure it'll hit them

The only situation that's bad for dsmash is if they miss the tech, either on purpose or on accident. Then all they have to do is get up attack, and you either get hit by it, or clank with the Dsmash. Then you gotta go for another grab and hope you get it, in which that time they'll probably try to Di for the platform.

Wenbobular said:

Uthrow -> Dair he did at 42% which is really prime time to be getting them with a Dair that pops them up ... leads to stuff like raptor boost -> stuff -> knee and jank like that. The timing for the Dair that pops them is you start your aerial the moment they hit the ground and fastfall it as fast as possible

Another out of shield option I really like is buffer full hop backward out of shield

For edgeguarding weak knee to cover the illusion -> Uair is really good for covering a lot of options but doesn't really work against Foxes that drop down really low but you should probably be able to react to that by jumping back to the stage

Also it's at a biweekly type event that SypherPhoenix hosts

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I agree with that, but the problem is when he did the Dair, he overshot it to the point where the jab won't hit. That makes it frustrating, as like I said, you gotta go for the pivot jab or something.
I'm not really sure what the best option is there, it probably is dair, it's just frustrating when they don't bounce, but rather just stay there :/

And yeah be sure to upload some of those videos!

My thing about Dsmash was you said to Dsmash after a Dair at 0% that doesn't knock them over which I don't think combos haha

I guess it's not difficult to recognize but I'm terrible at getting the turnaround grab >_< sigh
If only JC grab allowed you to turn around <_<

Practicing getting the bounce off throws is pretty valuable I think when knee doesn't outright kill them but they're too high to plausibly get a regrab
Then again you could also just raptor boost haha ... raptor boost is like some 3/4 option coverage cheating

I agree it's just weird sometimes to get that bounce.

Wenbobular said:

My thing about Dsmash was you said to Dsmash after a Dair at 0% that doesn't knock them over which I don't think combos haha

I guess it's not difficult to recognize but I'm terrible at getting the turnaround grab >_< sigh
If only JC grab allowed you to turn around <_<

Practicing getting the bounce off throws is pretty valuable I think when knee doesn't outright kill them but they're too high to plausibly get a regrab
Then again you could also just raptor boost haha ... raptor boost is like some 3/4 option coverage cheating

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i swear to god every time I use raptor boost I miss. this just makes me use it less and less the more I play :S
I mostly use it against marth only

ryankam10 said:

i swear to god every time I use raptor boost I miss. this just makes me use it less and less the more I play :S
I mostly use it against marth only

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That's a good strategy. RBs are horrible risk/reward options, and so I only use it for tech chasing and against Marths who spam Nair

Well I was talking about using it for techchases
Just uhh ... iono
Switch up your timings or something
Ideally you want to be basically right next to them and start it right as they touch the ground

ryankam10 said:

I used to try and read techs into knees and stomps alot, but more and more I've realized that this is not the proper way to play. Sure, in combo videos it seems as if people read every single tech roll every single time, but in reality... if you try to guess which way the opponent will roll every time your accuracy will probably be somewhere near 10-20% im guessing, probably less.

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haha, 10-20%. There are essentially 3 places they can be, so 10-20% means that they are outreading you by a lot.

Reaction is good but its not a 100% thing. Reaction, reads, baits, and multiple option coverages should all be used.

Well I'm saying, most people rely solely on guesses. In that, that's a bad thing. Your "gut feeling" is sometimes right, but you should definitely watch and react first most of the time.

I agree with your statement, but overall the reliance on gut feelings needs to be decreased heavily into a more cognitive game. Most people just rely on instincts rather than, like you said, baiting them into doing what you want.

Winston said:

haha, 10-20%. There are essentially 3 places they can be, so 10-20% means that they are outreading you by a lot.

Reaction is good but its not a 100% thing. Reaction, reads, baits, and multiple option coverages should all be used.

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you could look at it that way, you could also watch any high level vid and see how they dont often try to read rolls with a knee... that kinda **** is what you see in combo vids cus it looks cool but it doesnt happen alot because its impossible to predict where your opponents going to be. i could argue this point all day but its best just to look at any good falcon and see how they dont take risks trying to read stomps left right and flying knees and stomps

0Room said:

Well I'm saying, most people rely solely on guesses. In that, that's a bad thing. Your "gut feeling" is sometimes right, but you should definitely watch and react first most of the time.

I agree with your statement, but overall the reliance on gut feelings needs to be decreased heavily into a more cognitive game. Most people just rely on instincts rather than, like you said, baiting them into doing what you want.

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Yeah, honestly I really really prefer reacting. For example there are ways where you can react and cover honestly every single option...

For example if I upthrow fox and he DIs behind me (right beside me but behind me), I can simply turn around and wait - I'm not expecting anything in particular, but can easily react to anything he does.

Any tech => regrab
no tech => jab reset.

If fox DIs hard away, I would dash forward putting myself right beside him, allowing me to regrab any tech with ease (or if I'm in the zone, kneeing a missed tech haha.)

I used to try and knee people out of their rolls all the time but realized it just wasn't the best strat => ergo I try to utilize my pure reaction time (there was a thread about this somewhere, not sure where. maybe on how to play in general) instead of a "feeling"

Winston said:

haha, 10-20%. There are essentially 3 places they can be, so 10-20% means that they are outreading you by a lot.

Reaction is good but its not a 100% thing. Reaction, reads, baits, and multiple option coverages should all be used.

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also srry for the triple post (PLS DUN BAN ME) but theres 3 places they can be, 3 places I can be also.

The chance (since you wanted to bring up numbers) that we're both in the same place is (1/3)*(1/3) which is around 11 percent if I'm not mistaken

Also, I would argue that people's rolling patterns or more or less random (or at least, the rolling patterns of any non-****** player). If you could easily pick up on your opponent's patterns you would quickly be the best falcon in the world

ryankam10 said:

also srry for the triple post (PLS DUN BAN ME) but theres 3 places they can be, 3 places I can be also.

The chance (since you wanted to bring up numbers) that we're both in the same place is (1/3)*(1/3) which is around 11 percent if I'm not mistaken

Also, I would argue that people's rolling patterns or more or less random (or at least, the rolling patterns of any non-****** player). If you could easily pick up on your opponent's patterns you would quickly be the best falcon in the world

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Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooow

ryankam10 said:

you could look at it that way, you could also watch any high level vid and see how they dont often try to read rolls with a knee... that kinda **** is what you see in combo vids cus it looks cool but it doesnt happen alot because its impossible to predict where your opponents going to be. i could argue this point all day but its best just to look at any good falcon and see how they dont take risks trying to read stomps left right and flying knees and stomps

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Right, you should use a mix of reaction, reads, baits, and multiple option coverages... which is what the good falcons do. And some falcons try to read more than others, i.e. Darkrain.

I'm agreeing with you saying that you shouldn't always read; I'm disagreeing with you saying that you should never/very rarely do it

You have to read on Techs in place though. You can never react to it, at least in the traditional sense. you have to read it. You just have to. Otherwise you will miss the knee. Regrabs work, but you can't stomp/knee it.

Winston said:

Right, you should use a mix of reaction, reads, baits, and multiple option coverages... which is what the good falcons do. And some falcons try to read more than others, i.e. Darkrain.

I'm agreeing with you saying that you shouldn't always read; I'm disagreeing with you saying that you should never/very rarely do it

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Yeah haha I know. There are sometimes where you just know they're gunna tech in place.

Also 0Room you're right, it's basically impossible to knee a tech in place on reaction lol. Although you *could* dash attack a missed tech on reaction (lol)

I was wondering also, is it possible to knee a missed tech on reaction? Cus lots of times I'll nair a falco/fox then dash to to where they land and knee on the spot. This is usually cus I'm expecting it though, as in I had pre-planned the knee. Wondering if its possible to do on reaction

Pretty sure it's impossible you have to start the jump like the second they hit the ground and do it as fast as possible for the knee to hit

No it's actually very possible. You just need to look for the green flash. The second you see it, jump and ff the knee, it works every time.
You just have to be able to process it fast enough.

If you say so...

I won't believe you until I start seeing consistent 0-death techchases though. If you can react to a missed tech with an aerial that'd be the missing piece of the techchase puzzle ... reacting to tech in place with a regrab would be cake if you could do that

You can totally react to missed tech. You probably can't be on the ground then aerial a missed tech but you can absolutely knee/stomp if you're already in the air, also if you're on the ground just jab reset, bait the get-up attack and shield or jump over it and stomp their face.