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Video Critique Thread

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
lol
it's seriously not even hard to win this matchup as sheik

basically what you need to do is stay grounded and keep her at bay, if she's able to come in from diagonally above then you're not going to be in a position to punish it, and you'll keep losing ground till you're out of stage and have to get around her

if she's just jumping and fairing then you need to put yourself in a position to counter her when she's jumping, or i suppose when she lands with that fair, though the window is small.

once you figure out how she'll react to you coming in after she fairs nothing, then you can respond accordingly, if she throws something out afterwards, or jumps again, you should be okay to dash attack, but if she shields then obv grab

if she rains needles down on you and follows up, it's most likely going to be a grab since that's standard sheik practice, so what you can do is UB right after the needles cause they'll try to make the window as small as they can, and you'll usually catch em w/ the UB

keep missiles out there, i've been working w/ standing missiles and they're actually pretty good, you can't follow them up but it gives you decent control of the match, allows you to force your opponent into responding to them so you get a feel for what type of player they are and how they're going to react to stuff

don't go in the air, not even to shoot missiles, unless you're on like opposite sides of the stage. the only time i try to go airborne vs. a sheik is when i think they're going to be trying to shffl something and i want to intercept it

if you can kill their air game, their ground game is much more manageable. Granted they both suck, but you have more safe options than trying to anti-air her.
 

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
Since you guys were discussing Sheik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATNUHr5zDgM

Even though I won the set I'd still like some feedback on what I did right and what I should improve vs. Sheik. Anything would be helpful since it's a matchup I don't get a lot of chances to improve upon.
Dude! You play PAL version of melee. You need to tell us about that matchup haha!! Sheik's Dthrow to fair doesn't work and fair has less KB. If anything besides the nerfed up-b(On samus part)...I think this matchup isn't to bad. Apply what you see 3 posted. Also just fsmash sometimes when sheik is closer to the ledge instead of dsmash.

1) Grabs work alot against a shield happy sheik.
2) Walk off Nair works if you can read the second jump
3) Pal!!!! omg sheik,fox,falco,marth Nerfed lol

Can someone tell me if anything was done to samus in the Pal version?
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
Aw, you guys, hahaha.

Yeah you can DI a good deal away from Sheik's dthrow in PAL. Sheik still destroys your recovery with needles and combos you a good deal better than everyone else, though. Still Samus' worst matchup by far :( I don't envy you guys in NTSC one bit though.

As for Samus' PAL differences, she lost her extended grapple (WHY WOULD THEY DO THIS), she has the 1.2 UpB (obviously), and for some reason she LOSES the charge on her neutral B if she's hit out of upB. That's about it, as far as I remember.

EDIT: Also, Sheik's uair is nerfed in PAL, so you'll basically never die over the top in this matchup.
 

AshuRawRun

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
157
Location
Near Paris
Hi dear Samus players, I'm not a Samus player, but I got a friend (Cyr a.k.a. Cyril) playing Samus, we're French so I don't know if you ever heard of us but Cyr is a quite good Samus player and one of the top French Smashers.

I'm coming here to post some of his videos here so I can get some critics from other Samus players (there isn't that much in France) so he'll be able to improve his game and to show you some cool matchs:

Cyr vs Porc (Falco) AT2

Cyr vs Porc (Falco) part 2 - AT2

Cyr vs Baxon (Falco) part 1 - AT2

Cyr vs Baxon (Falco) part 2 - AT2

I know his matchs are pretty long but I'll be really happy if you could watch them and give some feedback (particularly about the one against Baxon, he would need advices)

Thanks! :D
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
oooo
he is good :)
*still watching*

well from watching the first match he has very good foundation
his movement is nice and fluid and doesn't do unnecessary wavedashing/landing
his responds well to shield pressure
reacts quickly to falco's mistakes

for now only advice I have is nothing he can't see from watching the same match himself
he missed some UB OoS, chose to get a little greedy when he was up a couple stocks, was challening falco's Uptilt when returning to the ground

stuff I suffer from as well lol

oh, and he needs to put himself in better positions to edgeguard falco, he gives up too many options by throwing missiles out
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
I actually watched the full set. I don't mind watching match-ups that most people find boring, as I usually find them interesting in other ways. Watching this was a nice lesson in the Jigglypuff match-up, which I've always thought to be really screwed up for Samus.

A couple of things about Jigglypuff, though it seemed like Cyr was aware of most of these things:

- Don't challenge Jigglypuff in the air. All her aerials beat yours.

That being said, I really liked Cyr's quick use of shffled nairs, whether it was to punish an aerial or baiting a jump. However, it seems he was abusing them a bit too much to begin with, and Infernum caught on and just stayed on the ground and rested him out of it. Most of the time, they were hard to punish though. Same goes for the dairs. Dair > dsmash is a nice combo, haha.

He needs to be really careful with coming down with an aerial vs. Puff when they're both in the air and he's above Puff. Lots of times, he was punished with an uair. Number one priority is to get down on the stage again, so just abuse those bombs until you find an opening. Suddenly FFing with an aerial can work, but you need to be really careful that the opponent isn't aware of it.

- Charge Shot is the best.

I find that Charge Shot is one of the things that make this matchup bearable. Cyr seemed to know this. If you knock Jigglypuff away, chasing her is usually pointless. Use the time to charge. Fully charged charge shot beats everything Jigglypuff has in the air, so it's both excellent for racking up damage as well as KOing early, hell, it's even good just for pressuring her in the air. Might not be a bad idea to simply wavedash away from a bair spamming Jiggs and just charge as much as you can.

Also, I find that homing missiles are actually decent against Jiggs. They're much better at annoying her than super missiles, since she can easily avoid those.

- Be really careful about Samus' laggy moves.

Fairly sure Jiggs can punish dsmash on shield with a rest, dunno about dtilt. I have a tendency to dtilt Jiggs when shielding on the ground, though I'm not sure Jigglypuff can really punish it that easily (as I said though, I don't play against a lot of Puff players so I really dunno). If you can grab Jiggs, it's actually fairly good against her (sometimes dthrow combos into a nair), but you really need to be sure you'll hit if you want to use it. I dunno, it's something to think about if you see Jiggs shielding a lot on the ground.

Other than that...

I don't think I saw UpB used offensively... at all. It's actually really good when you're under Jiggs, in my experience. If you FF it, it's fairly safe. On FoD, it's even more safe if you can hit the middle platform - should be a good option if you're close to her and shielding, as it has a tendency to shieldpoke or catch the opponent before they jump/grab/whatever. Cyr got fsmashed a few times when trying to wavedash out of shield, so that might be a good mix-up.

Similarly, I saw no use of uair either. It pokes Jigglypuff really well, though getting below her is obviously a problem.

Recovering against Jigglypuff is really tricky, especially on battlefield, but don't try to challenge her in the air on the way in. Just be patient with your bombs, move back and forth as much as you can to avoid her attacks.

That was some general advice. He's no doubt a more experienced player than I am, so he probably knows most of these things (he was definitely aware of most of the things mentioned here - that much I could see), and I thought he played a very solid match. Thanks for the link, it also helped me quite a bit.
 

XAQ

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
186
Location
Buckingham Palace
I actually watched the full set. I don't mind watching match-ups that most people find boring, as I usually find them interesting in other ways. Watching this was a nice lesson in the Jigglypuff match-up, which I've always thought to be really screwed up for Samus.

A couple of things about Jigglypuff, though it seemed like Cyr was aware of most of these things:

- Don't challenge Jigglypuff in the air. All her aerials beat yours.

That being said, I really liked Cyr's quick use of shffled nairs, whether it was to punish an aerial or baiting a jump. However, it seems he was abusing them a bit too much to begin with, and Infernum caught on and just stayed on the ground and rested him out of it. Most of the time, they were hard to punish though. Same goes for the dairs. Dair > dsmash is a nice combo, haha.

He needs to be really careful with coming down with an aerial vs. Puff when they're both in the air and he's above Puff. Lots of times, he was punished with an uair. Number one priority is to get down on the stage again, so just abuse those bombs until you find an opening. Suddenly FFing with an aerial can work, but you need to be really careful that the opponent isn't aware of it.

- Charge Shot is the best.

I find that Charge Shot is one of the things that make this matchup bearable. Cyr seemed to know this. If you knock Jigglypuff away, chasing her is usually pointless. Use the time to charge. Fully charged charge shot beats everything Jigglypuff has in the air, so it's both excellent for racking up damage as well as KOing early, hell, it's even good just for pressuring her in the air. Might not be a bad idea to simply wavedash away from a bair spamming Jiggs and just charge as much as you can.

Also, I find that homing missiles are actually decent against Jiggs. They're much better at annoying her than super missiles, since she can easily avoid those.

- Be really careful about Samus' laggy moves.

Fairly sure Jiggs can punish dsmash on shield with a rest, dunno about dtilt. I have a tendency to dtilt Jiggs when shielding on the ground, though I'm not sure Jigglypuff can really punish it that easily (as I said though, I don't play against a lot of Puff players so I really dunno). If you can grab Jiggs, it's actually fairly good against her (sometimes dthrow combos into a nair), but you really need to be sure you'll hit if you want to use it. I dunno, it's something to think about if you see Jiggs shielding a lot on the ground.

Other than that...

I don't think I saw UpB used offensively... at all. It's actually really good when you're under Jiggs, in my experience. If you FF it, it's fairly safe. On FoD, it's even more safe if you can hit the middle platform - should be a good option if you're close to her and shielding, as it has a tendency to shieldpoke or catch the opponent before they jump/grab/whatever. Cyr got fsmashed a few times when trying to wavedash out of shield, so that might be a good mix-up.

Similarly, I saw no use of uair either. It pokes Jigglypuff really well, though getting below her is obviously a problem.

Recovering against Jigglypuff is really tricky, especially on battlefield, but don't try to challenge her in the air on the way in. Just be patient with your bombs, move back and forth as much as you can to avoid her attacks.

That was some general advice. He's no doubt a more experienced player than I am, so he probably knows most of these things (he was definitely aware of most of the things mentioned here - that much I could see), and I thought he played a very solid match. Thanks for the link, it also helped me quite a bit.
tldr loser
 

abcool

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
871
Location
The Bahamas
http://youtu.be/u_c-1vX1Wx8

http://youtu.be/8beIaptbp5c

http://youtu.be/wGAbZK7I4Cw

http://youtu.be/JCUQNuunYqk

http://youtu.be/2Eo5fXKZP24


Hello my fellow samus buddies lol. I just wanted to post up some matches from a tourney i was about to win(probably) but we got kicked out of the venue. It was my last tourney. I got send to loser's pretty early and ran through it.

I just wanted to thank you guys for helping me out alot with difficult match-ups. plus the random craziness you guys do on these boards are hilarious. Again though, THANKS ALOT! My fellow samus players. I thanked hugs like the day after and i owe you guys aswell for giving me help with those other matchups.
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
you're letting her pull & throw too many turnips
you need to position yourself in such a way that it's dangerous for her to attempt to pull a turnip
space yourself about 1 WD ftilt away from her at all times if she's on the ground, if you can effectively do this she'll have to stop trying to pull turnips and instead start trying to approach you either from the air or from the ground

if she approaches you from the ground, find out how she's going about it. Does she dash attack, grab, dtilt, run in WD back, run up shield, whatever she's doing find the counter for it. If you notice she is dash dancing a lot, just run in there with a dash attack. You can combo out of it and if she shields then she'll get like 1 hit & be able to pull a turnip. If you can condition her to shield though, you can get and combo out of a grab.

if she goes into the air, and she is facing you, she's looking for you to throw out a move that she can punish with a fair. Or she's going to try and get above you and dair.
If she's trying to get the fair, wait for her to commit to a direction (preferably toward you) and go ahead and challenge her in the air. Fair works wonders, puts her in a prime position to uair if it lands, and is more disjointed than anything else you can throw out at her.
If she's going for the dair, just shield and UB her

or if she's not waiting but instead feels safe to attack you from the air, remember that she cannot grab you so just shield & UB everything she hits you with coming down from the air. The tricky part is learning the shieldhitstun for her fair but if you learn that, or even UB pre-emptively you can be way more annoying than she can and thus win the mental battle lol

but the main thing is zoning her turnips, they give her too many safe ways to approach
FD is a strange stage to fight peach on, on the one hand you can zone her turnips pretty well, but you are both going to have to guess a lot when you approach/counter approach

stages like pstadium, maybe Bfield & yoshis can offer more control, but i would say pstadium is probably the best, just because she's a relatively slow character and you can lock her down pretty well with missiles. Probably force her to float her way over them

dreamland i feel can go either way, neither character really gets to edgeguard the other, and chances are you're going to be looking for a nair kill in this matchup, unless you can get off a Fsmash on her approach. she's annoying for sure but played right you can be more annoying

UB the **** out of everything she hits your shield with, and don't get too ancy to approach. she has massive priority in most of her moves, nair, dash attack, are the worse.

you can shield grab her dash attack

you want to DI her dthrow behind her, and you should know when she's going to do it, basically if you can't die from her Fthrow, di behind her, if you can die from her fthrow, DI like diagonally up and behind her
 

vadgama

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
296
Location
Redmond, WA
Thimo (samus) vs Shino (Peach) 1
Thimo (Samus) vs Shino (Fox) 2
Thimo (Samus) vs Shino (Peach) 3

Hi guys,

These vids are from a tourney I was in last week. Just tell me what ya think. I dislike this matchup.
I dislike peach matchups as well haha. Only extra things I'd add to 3's feedback when fighting a peach is:

Be careful when she's off the edge. The best peach player I play uses mindgames off the ledge. Even if you think you can spike her...DONT, most likely it's just bait so stick to missiles.

Never hold down or even flick the control stick down when she catches you in her dsmash or you'll be taking a lot of unnecessary damage.

turnips are a b**** but just like link/YL's bombs you can catch them and throw em back =P

Space well
 

vadgama

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
296
Location
Redmond, WA
Looks like a platformer/bullet hell mix! Looks fun! I'll definitely play this. What platform is it on? Windows? Mac? Linux? lol linux
It's for Windows. Sweet! I'll send you a link to where you can download it at once we have a place for it to be downloaded from.
 

ES Lite

The Real Slim Shady
Joined
May 23, 2008
Messages
627
Location
Easton, PA (ES)
I just hope my crappy windows laptop can handle this game. lmao

Also, could someone please critique these matches? :laugh: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12554902&postcount=1013 My post was missed due to that vidja game video. lol
im not good at reviewing matches so i just decided to review the one v. falco in dreamland.

-Practice and understand your grapple recovery. Go to practice mode and melee mode it doesnt matter, and just jump off the stage, and sweet spot grapple recover, from all different angles and distances, and timings as well.

-Don't stand and missile. If you stand a missile, there is no way you are going to follow it up with anything. If you were to jump -> missile cancel all those times you just missiled, you could've followed up with a lot of other moves, like dash attacking or grabs.

-Learn how to navigate your samus around the stage. I can see you were just standing, walking, and wavedashing only to retreat. While it helped you on some cases, its always better to be wave landing off ledges, missile canceling while progressively moving closer to your opponent, throwing some l-canceled nairs here and there...All of this work to pressure your opponent, get closer to them, move away, etc. Go into training mode or whatever, pick any stage (there are 2 kinds, yoshi story and dream land; the platforms make a difference of wether or not you should double jump wave land or just jump waveland) and start wavelanding around the stage. To make it even harder on yourself (for bigger rewards) every time you waveland off a platform, instantly follow up with a l-canceled aerial or missile.

-Lastly, learn how to follow up a charge shot. There aren't many options, many cases you are forced to just shoot it at the spur of the moment, but start recoginizing the moves the make your opponents stay in falling animation and what percent they were at; AKA the "combos" that lead into charge shot. Many times its just dthrow -> wavedash back -> charge shot.

Thats all from me. Keep up the good spacing and ftilts.
 

MonkUnit

Project M Back Roomer
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
6,075
Location
Eau Claire, Wisconsin
yeah, i have trouble wding forwards and still holding shield, but im working on that. i also have trouble wavelanding forward instead of missing the platform. its all just things i need to practice on. :)
 

vadgama

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
296
Location
Redmond, WA
3 Player free for all. The YL that I'm having problems with is in these vids. I'll post some 1 vs 1's of him and me later. Also, can someone direct me to the thread that talks about what's best to record vids with. I saw it somewhere, but I don't remember where it was. Anyways, please critique. Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MdncA4Qvm0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbPMEMynNWo

Edit:
Here's one of the 1 vs 1's with the YL player dude guy man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF-Y7HEHnYQ
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
I watched the 1vs1 match.

You're way too passive. You'd often just shield a good distance away from allowing yourself to get bombarded by projectiles. You often stood still. For the most part, your approach is dash attacking, which is really bad because it's easy to shieldgrab.

Move more. I don't think I saw you wavedash more than once during the match. Use platforms to autocancel your missiles, it creates openings for you. Wavedashing in and out with ftilt is great, as it cannot be punished (not by Young Link, at least). You're the better character in close combat, pressure him more with your own moves. You'd often fullhop with a dair, which is a really poor approach. Jab and ftilt are both good, fast moves, use them more. Stay on the ground, punish the opponent with nair/fair/uair depending on what's good if he goes into the air.

That's what immediately came to mind when watching the match.

I'll probably be posting some of my own videos later today -- I feel like I've really improved and I'd like some feedback on them. :)
 

Pi

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
6,038
Location
Lake Mary, Florida
careful not to dsmash shields, or smash shelds in general
don't dash attack shields either, if you're not sure then try to jab/space an ftilt on his shield
dthrow
try to only spot dodge if you think he's goign to grab
this will give you time to work on your other OoS options (wd OoS)
stay on the ground, don't go in the air unless you know you can force him to DJ or hit him

your foundation of approach is pretty good, you got off grabs and dash attacks, you DA'd his arrows which was something i didn't know, but there was no semblence of baiting or reading in your play other than your grabs

you need to lure him into performing punishable moves, or aerials. unfortunately since he's YL he can spam projectiles so you need to position yourself where it would be unsafe for him to try and throw a projectile, zone him in essence. Put yourself about 1 WD ftilt/da away from him, or far enough away that you can reach him if he starts to throw a boomerang, pull a bom, or jump. You need to position right there so you can punish whatever decision he makes, this will shut down his projectile game and he'll have to throw out a melee attack

once you can force him to do this, then you can start baiting

use dash dance, and dash wavedash back to prompt him into attacking where he thinks you're going to be, then counter his whiffed attack

alternate between passsive baiting and being aggressive, since you have shown that you know when to grab/dash attack

don't always jab & dsmash, when he's shielding and you're intention is not to grab, just jab cancel (jab, crouch, jab), afaik YLink cannot grab or UB out of this, so he's going to have to do something else. so be prepared for that and ready to punish it
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
You guys were discussing Marth in the other thread not too long ago, so I figured I'd throw this set in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qq4fPhZjD8

In my opinion, it's a pretty good set, we both feel we played pretty well. I'm pretty happy with how I play this matchup, though any and all advice is appreciated.
 

vadgama

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
296
Location
Redmond, WA
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll definitely put those tips to good use in my next match-up with him.

@3: What does DJ and DA'd mean?
 

ThePrime

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Messages
1,283
Location
Tuk House, WA
@Orn

Good play, and in general good control. If anyone wants to see textbook marth MU stuff, watch Orn's link and watch game 2 on the first stock. Notice how Orn is just a hair away from marth's threat space and stupid marth is just throwing out attacks hoping that they'll hit and Orn is simply just waiting for a small window and punishing, it's all about that in-and-out movement so that you'll bait something out. Love seeing that.

Advice? You gotta save that double jump man, jeez. Every time marth gets even a single attack on you i heard SO MANY double jump sound effects getting canceled because marth's second attack got you, and ate your jump. Learn to trade hits, you can't jump out of everything. Better marths would take full advantage of that fact that you lost your double jump because you were desperately trying to get out of a combo. He fairs you a couple times so what? Fairs are annoying yes, but they aren't going to KILL you at low-mid percent. DI and get grounded. He uptilts you? Same thing.

Also watch HIS percent, i saw some jab-dtilt at high percent which actually does nothing. Dtilt is SO good at low percent because it sets up a uair --> missle, but a dtilt at high percent is pointless because it's not going to kill him and hes just going to land back. At high percent spam those ftilt and gain that position advantage, push him off the stage and setup an edgegaurd. Jab to ftilt is preferred pressure as opposed to dtilt at high percent.

I can tell it isn't your style, but just throwing out some more missles on pokestadium is so good lol. BF is different, that's fine. But PS is just asking for more missles lol. My hunch is that marth probably didn't know how to deal with missles that well just from how he was playing, and on PS it's just so safe to quickly throw out 2-3 missles and see how they react, it's not even that committing. And im talking only the neutral portion ofcourse, and if the marth is furthur away.
 

Ørn

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
212
Location
Denmark
The double jump thing is probably one of my worst habits, lol. I dunno if I've simply been lucky so far (I have played against some pretty good players), but it's never been too much of a problem so far. I generally find a way down by stalling with bombs or whatever. That said, I might as well not give them the chance to begin with, and if I want to improve, that's a great start.

I think the jab > dtilt is generally my response if I feel like I jabbed too close to their shield. Dtilt generally pushes them just outside of shieldgrab range, while I can reset the situation and do whatever. I definitely agree that going for ftilt more often is something I should do, though. I'm usually pretty decent when it comes to edgeguarding, so I should probably work more on getting them out there in the first place. (I generally do this a lot vs. Fox and Falco - there's a video of me playing vs. both characters on the channel if people are interested)

People keep telling me I use very few missiles. I think I generally use missiles for edgeguarding, or if I'm simply coming down from a platform, I like to throw one out as well. I guess it's been working pretty well for me so far, haha. You're right though, I might as well shoot a few missiles on PS if I'm away from them, extra pressure certainly won't hurt.

Anyway, I really appreciate the advice. Thanks for taking your time to look them over!
 
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