Falcon Mind-Meld: A Captain Falcon Matchup Thread (now on: EDGEGUARDING))

linkoninja · Apr 8, 2011

Windrose said:
That would be awesome!

You should work with scar. He already has it under construction. I am sure if you guys split it up or something it will be alot easier. S2j, nand0 and other more experienced people can contribute too?

Scar has been working on that guide for 2 years -_- he's never gonna finish it. Just leave it to Hax

Windrose · Apr 8, 2011

The template and everything is already there...why start from scratch

linkoninja · Apr 8, 2011

Windrose said:
The template and everything is already there...why start from scratch

Then why the hell hasn't Scar released it?

Wenbobular · Apr 8, 2011

s2j said:
i was thinking of making guides/videos

but all i know is.. defense

S2J guide to Falcon defense would be awesome

Although I think I can write most of it right now

"DI everything down and away"
"Pivot Nair a lot"

Deleted member · Apr 8, 2011

yah

i mean I can teach a lot of basic defense that 95% of people simply don't do

but do I want to create a new brand of smashers

where they don't know how to combo/****, but only know how to not get *****

making it BORING

==

maybe after i figure out how to teach offense well will I try to make vids

Walt · Apr 8, 2011

It'd be really cool if s2j, Hax, and Scar all wrote their own ideas on the same matchup/general falcon stuff. To see the differences, similarities, and probably regional changes. s2j and Scar are both west coast but I guess Scar is like Weast Coast.

Wenbobular · Apr 10, 2011

S2J describes my playstyle completely, sigh *depression* Thumbs is like the opposite, his DI is god awful but he ***** so hard

I'm also being constantly distracted by Fox

Sometimes I feel like playing Fox makes my Falcon faster though

Hax · Apr 10, 2011

Fox is like a 70-30 matchup lol, best advice i can give is to techchase perfectly and not get irritated by his brokenness... there's no overnight solution to beating fox

or falco

or jiggs

or sheik

falcon sucks

Brookman · Apr 10, 2011

well said Hax$

Wenbobular · Apr 10, 2011

I thought Jiggs and Sheik weren't the worst matchups ever
Fox is hard
Falco is impossible for me @_@

Hax · Apr 10, 2011

they're not when compared to fox and falco.. jiggs and sheik definitely beat falcon by a good amount. i personally like the sheik matchup though

disclaimer: my opinions on falcon's matchups vs the top tiers constantly change lol

JPOBS · Apr 10, 2011

> beast on jman in WF and Grandfinals
> come to falcon boards and say fox matchup is 70-30 fox favor.

:troll:

Wenbobular · Apr 11, 2011

O yeah, isn't Pichu vs Fox only like 30-70 or something on FD
Pichu for Falcon tier

Windrose · Apr 11, 2011

Hax said:
Fox is like a 70-30 matchup lol, best advice i can give is to techchase perfectly and not get irritated by his brokenness... there's no overnight solution to beating fox

or falco

or jiggs

or sheik

falcon sucks

Inspiring words of the day

Walt · Apr 11, 2011

I could not stop whining about falco today. I need to censor myself on that a little. Everything he does is just so goddamn stupid.

ryankam10 · Apr 11, 2011

I feel so much of the falcon vs spacies matchup is about how you follow up on throws...

Theres so many things they could do and so many ways for you to react, I always seem to read/tech chase the wrong way.

For example, the fox could DI the up/down throw all the way away, all the way in, or a little bit in between... there are so many options to cover and i always seem to not read them correctly :S

I mostly suck when they DI in between away and in, cus if I dash towards them I overshoot (hard for me to re-grab if its a tech in place), and if I stand still they'll just roll away and I won't be able to follow up :S

Wenbobular · Apr 11, 2011

ryankam10 said:
I feel so much of falcon vs ~~spacies~~ everybody (but Samus) is about how you follow up on throws...

Also you could try wavedashing after the throw to space yourself

ryankam10 · Apr 11, 2011

Wenbobular said:
Also you could try wavedashing after the throw to space yourself

yeah yeah i know, its just that for any non-spacie opponent its (usually) pretty clear how to follow up on a throw... oh, if its like peach or marth, u can chaingrab them a bit or uthrow uair uair knee, or if its sheik u can uthrow nair to whatever... whereas for spacies theres a whole like minigame of predicting where theyre gunna be that just adds a degree of difficulty u_u

stating the obvious, i know >_>

EDIT: also yeah ill try wd-ing after a throw if they di between away and in. at least that way i can react and chase to regrab whichever way they roll

Wenbobular · Apr 11, 2011

Yeah, not having guaranteed followups vs spacies is a ***** ... but sometimes you just gotta **** ~_~

Besides, with good DI combos are sometimes less reliable than techchases ... at least with techchasing you get rewarded if you execute correctly and guess right

That being said I suck vs spacies and sometimes want to be a Fox main but Fox dittos are *** and I have even more trouble vs Falco and then I remember how fun killing people is so I just go back to Falcon and try to be less of a ***** ~_~

Also Falcon dittos are my favorite matchup because Nair is like the king
I might be a mediocre Falcon in other matchups but I'm like a B+ Falcon dittoer haha

Windrose · Apr 11, 2011

Stop playing fox. No cop outs.

Wenbobular · Apr 11, 2011

I haven't played Fox in tournament for a while nor do I plan to haha
I do think that practicing Fox has helped certain areas of my Falcon game though

Like doing aerials at the fastest rate while changing the timing of your aerial ... It's a lot more important with Fox who doesn't have a 2 part Nair and got me thinking about my fastfall independently from my button input, so now I'm more comfortable making small adjustments to my Nair timing as Falcon while still maintaining the the fastfall timing

Also general speed because Fox is so much faster haha

ryankam10 · Apr 12, 2011

Fox is pretty annoying. I feel like I have a harder time playing falco though honestly. Usually if they sit back and camp me with lasers, I try to shield => shffl a nair close to them but that isn't too effective... is there an optimal way to get inside Falco? I get the impression that I need to stay in close with him and pressure him with aerials and ****, and just roll away everytime he nairs into my shield (cus if I try to grab or counter hell shine me into a long combo). is this the correct mindset lol

CaptainNanD0 · Apr 12, 2011

ryankam, falco's pressure is gay but you can still grab it before he shines i go for it cause i know if i grab him i can make it death, i find it better then just roll away thats just me tho cause i usually get the grab lol, you should also try full-hoping when he starts to laser it's really good and also what ive been doing recently is raptor boost under lasers, falcon goes really low like sheik's dash attack so it goes under the lasers well then just **** from there

ryankam10 · Apr 12, 2011

CaptainNanD0 said:
ryankam, falco's pressure is gay but you can still grab it before he shines i go for it cause i know if i grab him i can make it death, i find it better then just roll away thats just me tho cause i usually get the grab lol, you should also try full-hoping when he starts to laser it's really good and also what ive been doing recently is raptor boost under lasers, falcon goes really low like sheik's dash attack so it goes under the lasers well then just **** from there

yeah I'll try full hopping, haven't done that in the past maybe it'll work. Against the falco i usually play against, it's almost impossible to get the grab after he aerials, hes super consistent on the shine and if I miss a grab and get shined, I'm usually in for like 80% worth of combos.. lol

CaptainNanD0 · Apr 12, 2011

LOL yea that sucks, also you should try shield DI'ing away from his pressure that helps too or wavedash out of shield so you can be more mobile, vs falco its never good to stay in your shield, dont let him get you in your shield too much thats when they have most control, oh yea wavedash oout of shield to fsmash is pretty **** i do it on lambchops and other falco's LOL

Wenbobular · Apr 12, 2011

Nando doing his best impression of Marth o.o

ryankam10 · Apr 12, 2011

CaptainNanD0 said:
, oh yea wavedash oout of shield to fsmash is pretty **** i do it on lambchops and other falco's LOL

trollolololol

CaptainNanD0 · Apr 12, 2011

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL wenbo

ryan10, seriously its ****

Wenbobular · Apr 12, 2011

I can see it being almost as good as Marth's
You're probably just a little more at risk to get randomly tapped if the Falco tries a crossup or something

Windrose · Apr 12, 2011

Isn't there a height where the laser covers the short hop nair and the raptor boost?

Walt · Apr 12, 2011

No I don't think there is. But from about boosts full distance Falco has enough time to land and utilt/nair you so he can always shoot a high one when you're far away.

Wenbobular · Apr 12, 2011

I get the feeling there's a magical laser height that hits everything
I couldn't get past Peepee's lasers no matter what I did
*Depression*

tarheeljks · Apr 13, 2011

pretty sure i have lasered people out of raptor boosts before/had it done to me. the lowest laser is quite low

CaptainNanD0 · Apr 13, 2011

yea the lowest laser hits him but who laser that super low anyway? cause falcon goes under falco's standing laser and thats pretty low

Skeletom · Apr 13, 2011

it's actually not that hard to alter the height of falco's lasers.
Laser high when you start nairing them, laser low when raptor boost/falcon kick when you start going under.
You just need keep variance up.

Windrose · Apr 13, 2011

do you guys generally prefer final destination or fountain of dreams in combat against falco?

I think for me, Falco is one of those rare situations where i'd prefer FoD than FD.

As many other players have noted, FoD isn't that bad for falcon once you get used to the stage and learn how to get around the low platform heights that screw up falcon's short hop aerials. The platforms are pretty good for controlling space with stomp and the stage also reduces the amount of lasering falco can do.

FD: laser all day.

ryankam10 · Apr 14, 2011

Windrose said:
do you guys generally prefer final destination or fountain of dreams in combat against falco?

I think for me, Falco is one of those rare situations where i'd prefer FoD than FD.

As many other players have noted, FoD isn't that bad for falcon once you get used to the stage and learn how to get around the low platform heights that screw up falcon's short hop aerials. The platforms are pretty good for controlling space with stomp and the stage also reduces the amount of lasering falco can do.

FD: laser all day.

prefer FD but that will probably change once I play a falco who is more consistent / annoying with his lasers

Honestly the way I see it, whenever Falco spams SHL I just try to nair out of shield as many as I can, moving forward towards him slowly... when he gets uncomfortable (I get too close for him to safely laser) he'll probably try to nair or dair my shield into a shine, best thing to do in that situation is to dash/roll away, when he dashes away to laser more, nair him while hes retreating. thats what I do anyways.

Walt · Apr 14, 2011

I can deal with lasers on FD just fine. What I can't deal with it dair dair dair dair dair on the lowest but still existing FoD platform. I guess I could just SDI one of them out but man I hate those free combos and the regular gayness that FoD brings like being able to tech under platforms I can't stompchase makes me the saddest.

ryankam10 · Apr 14, 2011

FoD fkin sucks for me... whats your take for following them after you throw into a regrab on the platforms? Cus my instinct is to spam aerials but that especially doesnt work on FoD cus of the height and ****...

Walt · Apr 14, 2011

Usually you can uair them, usmash, or hit them with the for some reason no-one-techs-this up-angle ftilt.

I think you can gentlemen them too on the lower plats but I hate gentlemening people on the ground because of crouch cancel.

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