• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Official Captain Falcon Video Critique Thread

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
I'm gunna side with wenbo here, if you could react to missed techs as easily you say (not meaning to be confrontational here >_>) then it would be 0-death pretty much everytime falcon grabs you...

I for one am able to regrab tech in place on reaction following a uthrow/dthrow on spacies (because I dash forward not expecting anything particular), however I am not able to react (purely react) to a missed tech.

I think what walt and 0room are referring to is when you throw/hit them, dash (following their DI), and then knee in place when they miss their tech, I do this also but it's usually when I have a hunch that they're going miss the tech, or I preplanned that I would knee in place following a dash forward.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
You can totally react to missed tech. You probably can't be on the ground then aerial a missed tech but you can absolutely knee/stomp if you're already in the air, also if you're on the ground just jab reset, bait the get-up attack and shield or jump over it and stomp their face.
hard to jab reset when you're dashing >_> (assuming they DI your throw away).
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
You can totally react to missed tech. You probably can't be on the ground then aerial a missed tech but you can absolutely knee/stomp if you're already in the air, also if you're on the ground just jab reset, bait the get-up attack and shield or jump over it and stomp their face.
I meant reacting from the ground ...
I'm pretty bad at techchasing though ... whatever
~_~
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Nah you guys are right
I overestimated the time frame.

From a missed tech and your standing, the best option would be jab-reset -> knee
So I mean, it's more or less the same

But whatevs
A straight ff knee does NOT work, you're definitely right and I apologize for that.
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
hard to jab reset when you're dashing >_> (assuming they DI your throw away).
I usually try WD forward out of my throws to be right on top of them or as close to right on top of them as possible. Opens up jab resets, blocking get-up attack, and in pressure situations scares a roll out of someone which is at least a free grab and someone times a free knee/stomp of you're really looking for the spot to do it.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
I usually try WD forward out of my throws to be right on top of them or as close to right on top of them as possible. Opens up jab resets, blocking get-up attack, and in pressure situations scares a roll out of someone which is at least a free grab and someone times a free knee/stomp of you're really looking for the spot to do it.
yeah, imo this is the perfect thing to do if they DI away but closer than a dash's length.

WDing forward immediately following puts you in the perfect position to regrab any tech, or like walt said, jab reset, or even down tilt!

EDIT: I LOVE CC => downtilt
CC is the most broken tech in the entire game lool
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
CC is **** if you get it down right
Falcon doesn't really have a great moveset to utilize it though but CCing Sheik's tilts is pretty awesome (apparently, I'm real bad at doing it)
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
I mean it's good, it definitely has it's own times and shouldn't be forgotten,
but as a general rule I feel like DDing out and in to a grab gets more out of the situation.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Meh, depends
Thumbs ***** my dashdanching with overshot aerials and just being aggressive ... I didn't try counteraggression until too late
Pivot Nairs have usually been my best friend in dittos ... need those videos to come up so I can watch them
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
Fox nairs are so good to CC grab, or CC gentlemen. I've only recently learned to really utilize the super gay that is crouch canceling just because I play with people that will **** me if I even hit them on the ground at low percent with weak stuff. I have always hated how good CC is btw, I would have removed it from the game when I only rolled and forward smashed in like 2002. Getting right in Marths face so he can't tip you also is a good spot to abuse CC. I still need to get better with CC grab, I mostly do CC dtilt but obviously grab is better.
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
CC dtilt seems garbage

when would it ever be better than CC grab? I don't think the extra range helps, because I can't think of a situation where you couldn't just dash grab them instead.
The reason to opt for CC dtilt over grab is partly the range but also to stay crouching, once you go for a grab you give up on crouching. On Sheik, crouch her dtilt or ftilt at max range and you will get hit by another one or stuffed a jab if you go for a grab. If you just sweep her it'll pop her up or become a crouch war. If she does get popped up at like 30ish I think you can combo 2 dtilts into her then grab.

I may just be mis-timing the grab but I really like the range that dtilt gives.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
I just don't traditionally like being in a CC situation. I feel it's much better to again, dash away and dash back for a grab.
Sometimes it just can't be avoided, but as a rule I try to avoid CC
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
The reason to opt for CC dtilt over grab is partly the range but also to stay crouching, once you go for a grab you give up on crouching. On Sheik, crouch her dtilt or ftilt at max range and you will get hit by another one or stuffed a jab if you go for a grab. If you just sweep her it'll pop her up or become a crouch war. If she does get popped up at like 30ish I think you can combo 2 dtilts into her then grab.

I may just be mis-timing the grab but I really like the range that dtilt gives.
If it becomes a CC war what prevents them from just grabbing you <_< your Dtilt isn't exactly Sheik haha

You're probably just mistiming it (hell if I know how to do it though, I just spam Nair...)
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
The reason to opt for CC dtilt over grab is partly the range but also to stay crouching, once you go for a grab you give up on crouching. On Sheik, crouch her dtilt or ftilt at max range and you will get hit by another one or stuffed a jab if you go for a grab. If you just sweep her it'll pop her up or become a crouch war. If she does get popped up at like 30ish I think you can combo 2 dtilts into her then grab.

I may just be mis-timing the grab but I really like the range that dtilt gives.
the sheik falcon matchup is so gay... i played sheik for the first time yesterday against my friend's falcon and just 3 stocked him :S

in matchups where it basically goes down to who can camp and not approach more, you can just walk up them and out prioritize ANYTHING they do with an u/f-tilt. so sad :S
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
But if they don't do anything and are competent enough to punish you for spamming tilts you're going to just die (as Sheik)
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Sheik Falcon is strange
I'm kinda starting to agree with Hax

A tippy top Falcon > Sheik
But a sheik who ever grabs you ever > Falcon
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
It's hard to play that well until you're like Hax level unfortunately
I suck at punishing Sheik tilts -_-
 

Walt

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Concord, CA
Currently I have a lot more trouble with spacies than with Sheik. Getting grabbed sucks but I'm a lot better at doing stuff to her off that one grab or stomp than I am verse Fox and Falco. I get so crushed by Falcos stage control right now, I feel like I only ever hit Falco when he makes a mistake.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Currently I have a lot more trouble with spacies than with Sheik. Getting grabbed sucks but I'm a lot better at doing stuff to her off that one grab or stomp than I am verse Fox and Falco. I get so crushed by Falcos stage control right now, I feel like I only ever hit Falco when he makes a mistake.
QFT
I play a lot of sheiks, but not necessarily a lot of spacies atm
We'll see how it goes.
the last Falco I played I ***** him in 1:14, but you know, that can't always be the case.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
QFT
I play a lot of sheiks, but not necessarily a lot of spacies atm
We'll see how it goes.
the last Falco I played I ***** him in 1:14, but you know, that can't always be the case.
If sheik played more "gay" and just abused tilts, dash attack and downsmash more I feel like they would be able to easily beat falcons more consistently. sames goes for marth but I feel to a lesser degree just cus falcons grab game against marth > falcons grab game against sheik, imo.
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
Depending on the region you come from and the players you regularly play against, different falcon mains will feel certain matchups are better than others because they face certain matchups more.
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
If sheik played more "gay" and just abused tilts, dash attack and downsmash more I feel like they would be able to easily beat falcons more consistently. sames goes for marth but I feel to a lesser degree just cus falcons grab game against marth > falcons grab game against sheik, imo.
Actually I absolutely disagree.
That's what the sheiks I play here do and I usually beat them. It's not easy, but it's doable.
Now if they start focusing on their tech chase game versus you, better be smart.

Otherwise you will lose.
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
Me vs Vist (Luigi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDbpLvzDG28
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VynidlhG0hc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecn5TwZ2Rbk

Me vs Scrapmettle (Marth)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2X4ffsoSI

Every game is very awkward ~_~ but if you see any overarching problems let me know
pretty cool stuff. when i see you vs marth it looks so different as compared to me vs marth. When I play my marth friend the game revolves more around like grabs, not getting hit, and basically DD and grabbing them when they throw out random aerials, although I assume the difference is simply because you and the marth you play are simply better and your gameplay has evolved past that point lol
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
I don't know about that. I actually thought the marth he played against wasn't very good. I play against good marths that know this matchup and it can be pretty gay.

You are pretty good at comboing marth when the opportunity comes so that's great (no doubt due to you always practicing against lvl 1 marth on fd all day!)

In this video I just kept seeing all the times you should've died but the marth wasn't able to capitlize and you got yourself into many situations where you should've died but he didn't do the right things so it boiled down to a pretty even game. I dunno what kind of advice i can give you though because you might play less aggressively against better marths and you will actually be fine but I dunno, that vs marth video bothered me alot... :S Not exactly how to put it other than that.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
It's unfortunate that my set vs Redd didn't get recorded because he's a better Marth and I was playing a lot better that set

@ryankam - I'm still a good bit better than Scrapmettle (until he proves me otherwise in tourney ;D) so attacking at the fastest rate still works more than it should given that he's Marth
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I generally just rely on neutral air spam vs everybody
I'm trying to break the habit, but I really like neutral air
Also I'm like too impatient to wait for grabs for the most part <_<
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Yeah I picked up on the feeling that you were much better than that Marth as well

I'm not in the mood to write another book right now, but I wanted to commend you on 2 main things in the Marth MU
1) Being patient and not giving in to the temptation to do things [your third stock on YS]
2) Your spacing
 

ryankam10

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
279
In that video, if it was me playing against my marth friend, I would have gotten grabbed every single time you shflled a nair into his shield. Also I generally just feel the marth wasn't being as "gay" as he could be, if he abused fsmash and grabs more I'd have to agree with windrose that it could have been really bad. I mean there were a bunch of times when he had safe grabs but just didn't take them :S
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
Meh
I mean this is a local so I basically know who I'm better than most of the time and what I have to worry about when facing someone haha
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
Yeah I know what you mean, but I definitely agree with Ryan. Marths will grab you when you hit with nair on shield, no matter how well you space it.
It's ridiculous.
 

Wenbobular

Smash Hero
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
5,744
I mean yes I know haha
Sigh, really wish I had that set vs Redd recorded now ...

Also not true Falcon's Nair is really long
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
yeah I'm not sure if they can grab if you hit with your tip toes and land fast enough o_o....

I'm starting to use over shoot more though...seems like something I don't do enough of..
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
yeah I'm not sure if they can grab if you hit with your tip toes and land fast enough o_o....
I used to think that, but then my friend grabbed me as Marth.
Again.
and again.

and again.

:glare:
It sucked.

But I think I'm actually going to start on your videos now Wenbobular xD
 

0Room

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
1,953
Location
Boone, NC
~Luigi~
Now just up front, I don't know a whole lot about Luigi. I've been talking to a lot of people recently and they gave me a lot of insight to the Match Up, but it's not a Match Up I'm familiar with personally.
But I'll give you the basics of what I know.

1) Edgeguard him, dont' let him edgeguard you. After watching all three videos, I've noticed the setups for both of you, and I noticed that he sat in the center of the stage MUCH more than you did, and you need to reverse that. I feel like, personally, this is going to come down to a edgeguard fight, where one person tries to out edgeguard the other. Unfortunately, he's much better at edgeguarding CF than we are at edgeguarding him. But just a few obvious things: try to end in a knee, or a stomp. You want him to go WAY out there, hopefully before he has charged his down b, and hopefully you want him low. Unfortunately, he'll usually recover high, and that'll lead to a side b. Whenever he sidebs, try to get out there with a knee/uair. You did fantastically here , but other times not as much. Stomps actually work really well in this match, especially if he doesn't have a jump, because he just CAN'T come back horizontally. So if he's side bing and you jump out there with a stomp, he has to use his jump or up b. And if he uses his upb, he's already dead.

2) You have to keep him at arm's length in combos. Here you didn't uair from the tip of your feet, and got punished for it. In a combo, if you mess up at all, that Nair WILL punish you. Which really sucks, but if you can bait it, and knee about head level, you can get over it :) Once you start doing that a lot, a lot of Luigis will stop using it as much.

3) Respect his moves! From what I can tell, he has two major kill moves that **** your nair: His fair and his Dair. It's a problem, because if you misspace/throw out nairs, you really will get punished. You can't really do stuff like that. In that respect, you have to watch and think about what you're going to do and what his response would be. I feel like a lot of times, you just ran in there and didn't give a **** about his moves, so he used them to smack you around. If you were a bit more patient with your spacing, you could have gotten him a lot more, rather than taking a bunch of fairs/nairs in the face.

4) Don't upB so high! Here and here literally had me looking at the screen going "what are you doing?" I know that Luigi can Dair/Bair you until you go crying to mommy, but going that high is just asking to be sent back out there. You need to wait and remember all of your options [airdodge, upb, even down b and side b] to get back on stage successfully. While Luigi doesn't have a great airgame, provided you space things correctly, he is fast enough to find you.

5) Remember his options. On the ground, he has a very predictable game. Out of a WD [which he will be doing back and forth] he has 4 main options: Dsmash, ftilt, grab, or utilt. Remembering this and the basic spacing for each will really help you. Dsmash can be beaten by a knee, and ftilt can be outspaced. utilt I'm not sure on.

6) Try not to get stuck in shield. This is a kind of general rule, but in this MU it can be really hard due to his long WD and the space he controls because of it. You have to mentally remember not to get stuck in shield, because all of Falcon's OoS can really be shut down by a nair or fair [evidence here] without a lot of space. Try to know your options in shield, too. A Luigi will most likely jab the shield once, and then try to Dsmash to catch anything OoS that you try to do. Grabs are a lot more risky for him, because they require being a lot closer, so if you know the Dsmash is coming, just wait on it. I'm not sure what to do out of the shield, so you'll have to work on that on your own, but roll is usually safe. So try to remember to DD some more, and rely less on the shield.

Um I think that's about all I have to say right about now. If I remember the main thing I'm forgetting I'll let you know. But after talking to a few people, I've decided to include what you did really right as well.

So I wanted to say that you did really well in the third game, you really played your spacing well on that third life and kept out of his range. So good job.
 
Top Bottom