Samus vs Link

Attn.: This is not a guide, nor do I claim to be an authority on this match up. And i've tried looking for info on the vs Link match up in the "intro to samus/match ups" sticky but i could not find it. Anyway...

I need some advice on this match up. I rarely get to play with good Link players. Here are my current thoughts on it based on tournament experience, numbered for reference:

1) Link's nair outprioritizes Samus's nair (when clashing in the air). Can i intercept the bottom of his nair with my uair?

2) Link's dsmash has little after-lag and comes out very fast, so i can't wd out of shield to dsmash/ftilt punish cuz he will either go for another quick dsmash or spot dodge. Of course if he spot dodges i should just wait. Maybe i should jump out of shield and d-air him during his dsmash if i expect link to whip out a second dsmash?

3) Jab shield pressure works well.

4) Link can't shield grab if he's holding a bomb...so it's safer to dash attack him. Or is there a safer option?

5) Catching bombs vs powershielding bombs? Which is more practical/efficient/safer?

6) Edgeguaring Link... I like to hang on the ledge and b-air him as he airdodges for the grapple recovery. Nair off the stage works if they're not recovering low...uptilt their up-b works but i get hit by it sometimes...
and i forgot to try this out last time but would dropping a bomb as they grapple the ledge intercept his tether recovery? I think it would but i don't know how consistently this would work...

7) How do i deal with Link's double f-smash shield pressure? Should i jump out of shield in between and dair him? Is there enough time to pull this off?

8) Is DIing link's dthrow forward and away the best option to avoid getting u-aired? It works most of the time for me but i want confirmation...

That's all i can think of at the moment...feel free to respond to any number of my 8 thoughts or bring up something new i haven't covered. I'm looking forward to see what you all think.

Oh and if anything i say seems or is wrong/inaccurate, please don't hesitate to correct me!

My advice...

HUGQ said:

1) Link's nair outprioritizes Samus's nair (when clashing in the air). Can i intercept the bottom of his nair with my uair?

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From the leg to the tip of the boot Uair will trade at best. Anywhere up to his tunic you can beat it, not necessarily the easiest thing to do.

2) Link's dsmash has little after-lag and comes out very fast, so i can't wd out of shield to dsmash/ftilt punish cuz he will either go for another quick dsmash or spot dodge. Of course if he spot dodges i should just wait. Maybe i should jump out of shield and d-air him during his dsmash if i expect link to whip out a second dsmash?

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You can shield/grapple as soon as Dair touches your shield and lands. Do that instead.

3) Jab shield pressure works well.

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Especially if they love UP+B spamming, you have to be confident to do it since Link can own you if you mess up anything at close range.

4) Link can't shield grab if he's holding a bomb...so it's safer to dash attack him. Or is there a safer option?

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I usually missile cancel before I do a dash attack for cover

5) Catching bombs vs powershielding bombs? Which is more practical/efficient/safer?

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Catching would probably be more strategically useful, but I tend to do neither and avoid them.

6) Edgeguaring Link... I like to hang on the ledge and b-air him as he airdodges for the grapple recovery. Nair off the stage works if they're not recovering low...uptilt their up-b works but i get hit by it sometimes...
and i forgot to try this out last time but would dropping a bomb as they grapple the ledge intercept his tether recovery? I think it would but i don't know how consistently this would work...

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Bomb edgeguards work nicely from my experience. On stages such as Yoshi Story with slants I try CC Down smash and if they tech they won't sweetspot- making it easy to F-Smash or D/F Tilt them to death.

7) How do i deal with Link's double f-smash shield pressure? Should i jump out of shield in between and dair him? Is there enough time to pull this off?

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I just stay in shield, but you can probably WD OOS if you read their timing.

8) Is DIing link's dthrow forward and away the best option to avoid getting u-aired? It works most of the time for me but i want confirmation...

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I DI it similar to Falcon's Uair. Diagonal down and away.


More things to note:

-F-Tilt isn't safe, you can get Shield/Grappled easy off any ground tilt or smash- even at max range.

-It's very difficult to CC punish Link's Nair as it recovers far too quickly and pushes you back.

-D-Tilt can work well if you predict a jump OOS and you can combo off it. This mindgame is effective if they feel like you're trying to bait their laggy grapple- esp. if you've punished it before.

-Bombing Link's shield can be flustering for Links who're waiting to shield/grapple but watch where you DI or you could end up UP+B bait.

-Lastly, on platform stages watch out for platform dropped Uairs! Good Link players will try this tactic once you're at mid-high % for either combo setups or to KO.

I'm walking through Reflections just to catch your smile,
Walking bare foot on these silver tiles,
The sun shines a different shade today, (But)
The falling leaves turn my thoughts to grey,
And the wind blows, Oh the winter wind blows my name.


I'm watching the sunrise through this dull old picture,
The bells ringing softly make me shiver,
The see reflects a darker shade today,
The falling leaves wash my fears away,
And the wind blows, the winter wind calls my name.

3 said:

I'm walking through Reflections just to catch your smile,
Walking bare foot on these silver tiles,
The sun shines a different shade today, (But)
The falling leaves turn my thoughts to grey,
And the wind blows, Oh the winter wind blows my name.


I'm watching the sunrise through this dull old picture,
The bells ringing softly make me shiver,
The see reflects a darker shade today,
The falling leaves wash my fears away,
And the wind blows, the winter wind calls my name.

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Is this Link's frame data?

fergot i posted that...lol

links a *****

Thanks for your input, 3...

THE RED SPARROW said:

Catching would probably be more strategically useful, but I tend to do neither and avoid them.

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Oh my gosh! You crazy man! Catch that crap.

3 said:

links a *****

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Not as bad as a good YL player. Projectile *****s.

THE RED SPARROW said:

Is this Link's frame data?

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"3" Only gives advice against Link through poems. If you can decipher them, then the information received is more than a pot of gold filled with skittles from a rainbow's death.

vadgama said:

Oh my gosh! You crazy man! Catch that crap.

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I'm always afraid of messing up in the air and doing the grapple and if I'm on the ground I instinctively shield or wavedash away unless they make it really easy to catch.

THE RED SPARROW said:

I'm always afraid of messing up in the air and doing the grapple and if I'm on the ground I instinctively shield or wavedash away unless they make it really easy to catch.

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Fear holds people back from doing cool sh*t.

Vadgama: post something useful or get out
Red sparrow: what's the exact timing for catching bombs in the air? And for # 2, i mean his dsmash, not his dair

HUGQ said:

Vadgama: post something useful or get out
Red sparrow: what's the exact timing for catching bombs in the air? And for # 2, i mean his dsmash, not his dair

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The timing is the same as any other character, the only problem is if you mess up you will do a useless grapple and get hit. Other characters' Z will do a Nair which usually neutralizes projectiles regardless.


As for the Down Smash, I've never really has an issue with it. I usually jump away once he does the second swipe.

Idk if this happens in Link battles but it happens to me a lot in YL battles. If I do a any aerial and land near him he can grab me with his hookshot. Even if I land behind him, YL has a glitch where he can still grab people who are a certain distance behind him. Which is kinda BS.

I've found the nair and ftilts to be incredibly useful for YL battles since nair cancels all projectiles and keeps going...except for bombs of course. And f-tilt, if spaced correctly, is just great. Except for if you're the perfect distance away from YL for an f-tilt he can still grapple you. idk if this is the same against Link players because I generally don't have a problem with Link players since they're not as reliant on projectiles and evasiveness.

vadgama said:

Idk if this happens in Link battles but it happens to me a lot in YL battles. If I do a any aerial and land near him he can grab me with his hookshot. Even if I land behind him, YL has a glitch where he can still grab people who are a certain distance behind him. Which is kinda BS.

I've found the nair and ftilts to be incredibly useful for YL battles since nair cancels all projectiles and keeps going...except for bombs of course. And f-tilt, if spaced correctly, is just great. Except for if you're the perfect distance away from YL for an f-tilt he can still grapple you. idk if this is the same against Link players because I generally don't have a problem with Link players since they're not as reliant on projectiles and evasiveness.

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It's the same, F-tilt is completely unsafe against Link unless they time it late, then they get severely punished.

HUGQ said:

i've tried looking for info on the vs Link match up in the "intro to samus/match ups" sticky but i could not find it.

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It might've been better to post this question in the "intro to samus/match ups" thread instead of creating a totally separate one. Since that thread was created for match up questions and such.

Well I didn't want my topic to be eventually buried by other irrelevant posts, which is why i chose to make a totally separate thread

And i think that because this match up is so rarely talked about, it warrants its own thread

but seeing that there is such minimal activity here on the samus boards as it is

you're probably right :/

HUGQ said:

Well I didn't want my topic to be eventually buried by other irrelevant posts, which is why i chose to make a totally separate thread

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That's why there's a search bar

@vadgama stop pseudo-modding
no harm in making his own thread
pointless to remind people of the rules, everyone knows them, just contribute to the thread discussion or don't say anything

Thank you 3/knihT/superwavedash/III

Anyway...

I haven't practiced this match-up since I started this thread...but from what you've all said so far, it seems that Link will always be able to shield-grab Samus's f-tilt, even if it is perfectly-spaced (right?). In my previous tournament set vs a good Link player (J666 btw), I kept thinking I just mis-spaced my f-tilt and that I was just being stubborn and persistent to space it correctly. This is a good heads-up.

I feel like a huge n00b for not testing this technical stuff out myself and seemingly taking the lazy-man's way out by asking you guys for the info, but i hope you all can bear with me on that.

HUGQ said:

Thank you 3/knihT/superwavedash/III

Anyway...

I haven't practiced this match-up since I started this thread...but from what you've all said so far, it seems that Link will always be able to shield-grab Samus's f-tilt, even if it is perfectly-spaced (right?). In my previous tournament set vs a good Link player (J666 btw), I kept thinking I just mis-spaced my f-tilt and that I was just being stubborn and persistent to space it correctly. This is a good heads-up.

I feel like a huge n00b for not testing this technical stuff out myself and seemingly taking the lazy-man's way out by asking you guys for the info, but i hope you all can bear with me on that.

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Yup, I'm constantly playing a YL who shield-grabs me from an f-tilt. I've been told in other threads to WD in->f-tilt->WD out. Takes some practice but seems to work really well.

3 said:

@vadgama stop pseudo-modding
no harm in making his own thread
pointless to remind people of the rules, everyone knows them, just contribute to the thread discussion or don't say anything

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Sorry, that was dumb of me. I'll let the mods mod.

I have no problem pulling off Samus tech, it's making the right decisions in this match-up that I need help with.
What's most effective, efficient, practical, and safe. Y'know.
I know that sounds way too general, haha.

Also helps to do a waveland missile after you knock link offstage and you are trying to keep him at bay.

yea it would seem the frame advantage is with link in grabbing your ftilt
best bet would probably be to buffer a spotdodge/jump in case he mistimes it

This is actually my #1 favorite matchup. It's just so much fun.

I would recommend jab pressure over ftilts. Jab cancelling works well on Link, as his best options out of shield, which are UpooS, and shield grab, both don't really get past the jabbing.

In my experience, the biggest virtue in this matchup is patience, and vigilance.

A lot of the matchup is picking when and from where you should attempt to approach Link. I like to punish with a cc dtilt if he approaches with nair, or if I can bait one out.

Ledgedrop dj bair is a classic way to punish any grapple recovery.

On edgeguarding Link, there's two main things I like to do. It's usually easy to tell if they're going to grapple or stick with the safer up B simply based on their space from the ledge. When I know they must grapple, I'll Ledgedrop dj bair. If not, I stay on the stage and look for the right spacing and timing to land an utilt. Links rarely sweetspot perfectly, it's quite hard.

I'd recommend checking out Hugo(the other one) vs German, I found that pretty educational.

Thanks for the tips, Violence! I'll make sure to rewatch those vids.

And is the utilt the best way to edgeguard link's up-b recovery? I'm pretty sure it's just me mis-spacing the utilt and messing up the timing, but i usually get hit.

I agree with the rest of your post, btw, and will keep all of that in mind.

dair might be a good option since his UB is vulnerable from that angle

Violence said:

I would recommend jab pressure over ftilts. Jab cancelling works well on Link, as his best options out of shield, which are UpooS, and shield grab, both don't really get past the jabbing.

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Ummm...sure...but he can still grab you with his hookshot so make sure to follow up with something good.

Beginning of vid is me not following up after jab canceling YL and being punished

8:00 to around 8:02'ish or so is me following up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ3RyVzQo8Q

HUGQ said:

And is the utilt the best way to edgeguard link's up-b recovery? I'm pretty sure it's just me mis-spacing the utilt and messing up the timing, but i usually get hit.

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Depends on where he is and where he's going to be after up-b'ing

If he's going to be above you then u-air him. Else, before he hits the ground from falling from his up-B, do a nice f-tilt.

utilt is not "the" best way because it's easy to get hit by links up-b when doing it. But if you space it right and don't get it then he's dead for sure. I've not gotten hit from trying to edgeguard him with u-tilt like 1/5 tries. But I'm also not that pro masta skilled with Samus yet. So that could be a reason as well

3 said:

dair might be a good option since his UB is vulnerable from that angle

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I'm gonna have to try that o.0

A good link is actually pretty difficult for samus, it's almost like a ditto since Link is pretty similar to samus if you think about it.

The hardest part about the MU comes down to edgeguarding imo. If you see that he's always airdodging and grappling then that bair would be perfect, but they'll learn and it won't work all the time. Have you tried dropping a bomb at the ledge and then immediately grabbing the ledge? Or up-b intercepting him as he's about to grapple then nair up from the ledge. You could even just go off stage and stall with a single bomb jump and nair/dair where you think he's going to be. You really have to experiment, but the thing you have to realize is that your recovery is better than his. Edgeguarding link is sort of like edgeguarding a luigi or mario, ANYTHING that interupts their 'routine' will be just enough for the edgehog.

Can't you wd oos dsmash after link's second fsmash hit?

I find that DI up on his dthrow and trying to jump out works best, his uair is only gauranteed at lower percent im pretty sure.

Have you tried jabbing the back of his shield? I remember this is what hugs recommended vs falcons when they have their shield up, but honestly it's just great in general. Just get behind him and start the jabs, what is he going to do? If he tries jumping out then try for an uair, if he tries to bair he'll get hit by a jab. The best thing you can do is a force a roll, then it's reading his habits from there.

Go for grabs too, it's a free nair if you dthrow at nearly any percent. And because of link's weight if he tries DI left/right out of the dthrow you can catch him with a fair/reverse fair.

edit: btw I find that utilt for egeguarding rarely works, it'll only hit if they mess up their sweet spot. You need to do some off the stage stuff like i mentioned or just get control of the ledge in some way, staying on the stage is too passive.

For edgeguarding link I you CC D/F Smash or preemptive D/F Tilt where do it right before he's about to make it to ledge. U-Tilt is very hard to implement unless you do a bomb off stage to mess them up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REtMcmFP8PQ

Walk off nair can work too.

And yes, the matchup is quite hard against a good Link... it can get annoying.

Violence said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REtMcmFP8PQ

Walk off nair can work too.

And yes, the matchup is quite hard against a good Link... it can get annoying.

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It's funny how I had to see 3 minutes of Link ****** Samus's orifices before I witnessed the walk off Nair.

Violence said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REtMcmFP8PQ

Walk off nair can work too.

And yes, the matchup is quite hard against a good Link... it can get annoying.

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U were lucky he didn't get off his up-b before you nair'd him

If he does, he can't do anything as long as his Uair's out, I'll get sent up, but I didn't really lose any positioning. Even if I got hit once, to force an action that delays his recovery and allows for another followup is not something I would hate to do.